Watch the Obama Inauguration With Moonlight

bigmonachus writes "Miguel de Icaza has posted on his blog that linux users will be able to watch the Obama inauguration using Moonlight. Just go to the Moonlight download page to get it. He also said that some Microsoft engineers worked hard last night to make this happen."

Comments

A point for MS

[uberhipduck]

And we thought all MS Engineers were evil. My hope in humanity has been restored.

Re:A point for MS

[Zerth]

Nah, they just did it because they found out they were part of the 15,000 being laid off.

Re:A point for MS

[aliquis]

Did they change something in the presentation videothingy or did they added some support/fixes into moonlight? I'd assume the later which indeed was very nice of them :)

Re:A point for MS

[LWATCDR]

They are as good to Linux users as a fisherman is good to trout. Hey look free food.

Re:A point for MS

[shutdown -p now]

They've basically provided a separate Silverlight 1.0 player that's tested to be compatible with Moonlight. If you go to the website, you'll see that you have to click a special link to navigate to that player - the main one will still complain that you don't have Silverlight 2.0 installed.

Well, it's good enough for now.

Re:A point for MS

[bozojoe]

you misspelled 17,000

Re:A point for MS

[Dr.Dubious DDQ]

Maybe I'm just cynical ("maybe"?) but it seems to me that now, by waiting until the last moment to "help", they've still effectively prevented most Linux users (and Mac? Not sure about Mac...) from being able to watch their proprietary feed, while retaining the ability to point to the fact that they did anything at all to say "See how helpful we are?"

Re:A point for MS

[murdocj]

Yes, you are overly cynical. Let's face it, for some folks MS just can't win... if they implement something early, it's a trap, if they implement it just in time, they are just making the gesture, and if they don't implement it, they are trying to squash the competition. How about just appreciating the fact that some MS employees work hard to support a platform that competes directly with their own?

Re:A point for MS

[Darby]

How about just appreciating the fact that some MS employees work hard to support a platform that competes directly with their own?

Because that's not what happened? The "platform" in question is Silverlight. That competes with Flash, so they worked hard to support their platform *against* the competition. This has nothing at all to do with Linux as a platform versus Windows as a platform.

So there is nothing at all here to appreciate. It was obviously a completely self-serving action.

Pay just a little bit of attention and you won't look so dumb in the future.

Re:A point for MS

[murdocj]

From the Moonlight download page:

"Moonlight is an open source implementation of Microsoft Silverlight for Unix systems."

So MS engineers worked overtime to make an opensource implementation of their product work on a an OS that competes with Windows. Which is what I said.

And I noticed that you didn't have an answer for the point of my post, which was that on something like this, MS is going to take crap no matter what they do.

Re:A point for MS

[kelnos]

So MS engineers worked overtime to make an opensource implementation of their product work on a an OS that competes with Windows. Which is what I said.

... which wasn't the parent's point. The fact that Linux or MacOS competes with Windows isn't relevant. Or maybe it is, but some people at MS decided that the benefit (to MS) of supporting Silverlight on other platforms as a viable alternative to Flash outweighed the possible downside of supporting an alternative OS in general.

Don't think that the guys over at MS did this out of the goodness of their hearts. They did this because there's a business case for it.

Personally I don't care if they did it early, late, or not at all. It's done, and they felt that doing so was a good move *for MS*. Personally I think it's also good for the community, too, but that's certainly debatable.

Re:A point for MS

[akayani]

What was that you said... "15,000 Linux engineers released from Microsoft to assist in Linux and WINE development." We can only hope!

Re:A point for MS

[aliquis]

Ok, more understandable fix but still nice, guess they didn't wanted all the negative publicity on the issue :D

Couldn't they just have implemented HTML5 video support in IE instead? :D

Re:A point for MS

[shutdown -p now]

Couldn't they just have implemented HTML5 video support in IE instead? :D

I guess they could... in Silverlight :)

Actually, I had that idea sometime ago... as Silverlight apps have full access to the outlying HTML DOM, they can technically rewire it, and it would be possible to write support for at least some of HTML5 new elements that way (canvas, video, maybe something else). It would still be a browser-detection hack (I'm not sure if there's any way to check for HTML5 compliance from JS), similar to the IE CSS hacks that exist today; but it could just work...

Re:A point for MS

[Raenex]

And I noticed that you didn't have an answer for the point of my post, which was that on something like this, MS is going to take crap no matter what they do.

Yes they will, and they should. Microsoft has an entrenched operating systems monopoly. Everything they do is geared to extend and keep that monopoly. Microsoft is trying to get Silverlight adopted, so they're completely willing to go the extra mile to help Silverlight appear cross-platform. Once Silverlight becomes an established platform, they'll drop Linux like a rock.

It happened before when IE first came out, competing with Netscape. They actually paid somebody to port IE to Linux. Once IE became established, the Linux client went away.

The proper response for any Microsoft web initiative is to tell them to fuck themselves, and not support it at all. Miguel is a traitor to open source and the open web.

Re:A point for MS

[murdocj]

Well, yeah, it is relevant. They are supporting an non-MS implementation of an MS product on a non-MS platform. I know that Slashdot crowd can spin almost anything to be anti-Microsoft, but the idea that this is some sort of MS plot is absurd.

Re:A point for MS

[murdocj]

Thanks, you've made my original point quite well.

Re:A point for MS

[Raenex]

Your original point was a big "hooray for Microsoft". I don't think I supported that.

Re:A point for MS

[murdocj]

Go back, read what I actually wrote, and try again.

Or, on the off chance that you are lazy, here's the bullet point executive summary: my original post said that no matter what Microsoft did, they wouldn't get any credit for it from the anti-MS crowd. When you said

"The proper response for any Microsoft web initiative is to tell them to fuck themselves"

you made it abundantly clear that I was right.

Re:A point for MS

[Raenex]

Go back, read what I actually wrote, and try again.

I'll quote the relevant bit myself, since you're looking at half of your post, and I'm looking at the other half:

"How about just appreciating the fact that some MS employees work hard to support a platform that competes directly with their own?"

Why the fuck should I appreciate that Microsoft is working hard to take over the web again? The point of my post was that early support for Linux is meaningless and self-serving.

"The proper response for any Microsoft web initiative is to tell them to fuck themselves"

Let me clarify. If Microsoft were to actually commit to open, consensus based standards and follow through, I'd be the first to cheer them. They could start by implementing SVG. Instead they are pushing hard for their own proprietary standards.

Re:A point for MS

[outZider]

Nothing was cited, no proof, no anything. Why make a logical comeback? Why highlight all of the open source software they've supported and contributed to? Why talk about all of the software that was dying on the vine that they resuscitated? Why talk about the hardware standards they've opened and contributed to?

Nah. They/you are a douche.

Or not

[brejc8]

This is fairly low isn't it?
Using the climax of a massive democratic process to tie people to a monopolistic format just to show some stats how even Linux users have Moonlight so it is perfectly acceptable for this to become a new standard.

Re:Or not

[someone300]

I love Linux and run it on many computers at home, and have never been particularly fond of Microsoft, but you really have to give this to them. It's more open than what Adobe have to offer and they're being far more cooperative than Adobe generally were. Remember, mono/moonlight are *open source*.. not even just a binary blob provided by Microsoft.

They've repeatedly helped the Mono developers and have truly made an effort to set a new precedent with many of their .NET technologies. In general, they're far more open (in specification and implementation) than their previous development efforts. Their new file formats aren't perfect, but they're certainly better than what came before.

I suppose that this, codeplex and their other efforts could be all a big plot to win mindshare from OSS developers and users and convert them to MS, then they'll break compatibility again, but really if they think that will succeed, they're living in a fairy tale world. Honestly, I do think this is an attempt to be a bit more cooperative, even for business reasons. The best thing we can do as Linux users is support actions that facilitate open platform and do our best to stifle technologies that are clearly an attempt to do the opposite. For example, if you work in a MS shop, try to get them to use their more open products over their closed ones.

What I think this is truly indicating is that OSS (and Apple) are hurting Microsoft's profit, and they're doing their best to hold their position in a more cross-platform market.

Re:Or not

[von_rick]

There are several news outlets airing the ceremony and streaming it live. Many of them work with basic flash. I watched about 10 minutes on Hulu before it got utterly boring. Silverlight/Moonlight is one among several ways to waste away your morning.

Re:Or not

[Anonymous Coward]

I suppose that this, codeplex and their other efforts could be all a big plot to win mindshare from OSS developers and users and convert them to MS, then they'll break compatibility again, but really if they think that will succeed, they're living in a fairy tale world.

Really? I see their Silverlight/moonlight cooperation as being the same strategy of DirectX/Internet Explorer, as a second chance to try and take over the Web once and for all.

I'm never installing anything from Microsoft again. And if your website requires it, you just lost a customer.

Re:Or not

[mweather]

I love Linux and run it on many computers at home, and have never been particularly fond of Microsoft, but you really have to give this to them. It's more open than what Adobe have to offer and they're being far more cooperative than Adobe generally were. Remember, mono/moonlight are *open source*.. not even just a binary blob provided by Microsoft.

More open that what Adobe has to offer? Microsoft isn't offering Moonlight, so that's not really a fair comparison. There have been open source Flash implementations for years. The only reason they aren't at feature parity with proprietary Flash is that Adobe actually releases it's software on Linux. Had they not, then Gnash would probably be much further along, if not at total feature parity. In essence you're giving credit to Microsoft for not releasing Silverlight for Linux.

Re:Or not

[Anonymous Coward]

No, the main reason the free flash implementations are lagging, is that they have been reverse engineering the format, unlike the Moonlight people, who have specs to work from.

There were specs for Flash too, but until very recently, the license for those specs specifically forbid using them to implement a viewer.

Because of this, even though flash player is the most crappy piece of software I've ever seen on any Linux machine, the free alternatives still haven't been able to beat it.

So yes, Microsoft has been more open. Not just more open, but so much more open that they ended up forcing Adobe to become more open. Competition
for the flash format is good, and Adobe opening up the specs after Silverlight appeared is proof of this.

Re:Or not

[michrech]

Well, Hulu *is* using Fox content for their coverage (having just checked it out myself). I'd find it boring, too!

Re:Or not

[nahdude812]

How is it more open than Flash? The Flash spec is released by Adobe in case you missed it. Adobe also themselves provide a complete implementation.

They don't try to get open source developers to fill in the gaps for them for free, they put in the sweat and expense all alone. It also doesn't require last-minute quick fixes to make it work. This whole thing is exactly why Flash is a better platform for this than Silverlight.

I've got a live feed running from CNN right now which didn't require me to patch just in time to be able to use it for something real. Man, the fact that Moonlight wasn't ready for this before today only demonstrates the size of the gap between these technologies. Flash is mature, stable, and complete. Silver/Moonlight is new, poorly implemented, and wholly feels like a knee-jerk reaction to the sudden and very late realization by Microsoft's part that they have a real competitor.

Re:Or not

[byolinux]

Flash isn't free software though, which is the point here.

Re:Or not

[Anonymous Coward]

Or video tags.
A lot better than two slow and crappy proprietary malware entry corridors.

Re:Or not

[_Sprocket_]

I suppose that this, codeplex and their other efforts could be all a big plot to win mindshare from OSS developers and users and convert them to MS, then they'll break compatibility again, but really if they think that will succeed, they're living in a fairy tale world. Honestly, I do think this is an attempt to be a bit more cooperative, even for business reasons. The best thing we can do as Linux users is support actions that facilitate open platform and do our best to stifle technologies that are clearly an attempt to do the opposite.

The crux to this strategy of supporting "actions that facilitate open platform" is figuring out what really does this. Is what Microsoft doing really this?

Keep in mind that while Microsoft "repeatedly helped the Mono developers and have truly made an effort to set a new precedent with many of their .NET technologies," their CEO was talking about Linux violating Microsoft patents. There's no details to the allegation, of course. But it does make one very wary of accepting Microsoft's helping hand when you're not entirely sure what they're holding behind their back.

This does bring to mind other elephants in the patent portfolio world; none bigger than IBM themselves. The Sith Lord to Microsoft in the IT industry, if you will. A difference that I see in this case is that IBM is contributing code directly to various projects. I would imagine things would get a bit dicey in court if IBM tried to renege by claiming patent rights over code they had licensed themselves (even with IBM's fabled power lawyers).

So it's all fine and dandy that Microsoft wants to speak softly, smile, and pat the OSS world on the head. But I'm keen to see guarantees that the other hand doesn't hold a big club.

Re:Or not

[Anonymous Coward]

I'd think that this, indeed, is a good thing. I'd prefer it, really, if Adobe didn't release binary blobs that work on few platforms out of the many that Linux supports (and none the *BSD do), and worked better on an open spec.

Now, if MS did publish a patent covenant not to sue, applying on all the tech used in Silverlight for the purpose of FOSS, that would really kill...

Re:Or not

[pallmall1]

Remember, mono/moonlight are *open source*.. not even just a binary blob provided by Microsoft.

Moonlight is a patent minefield. Code contributed by microsoft (or anyone else) is not reviewed for possibly infringing microsoft patents, and if infringing code is discovered, it won't be removed because of the Novell-Microsoft patent deal. That is to say, moonlight is open only to Novell enterprise linux users. Users of moonlight on any other version of linux are subject to being sued by microsoft or Novell.

Moonlight is a booby trapped delivery system for infringing code that Steve Ballmer describes as "an undisclosed balance sheet liability."

Re:Or not

[IGnatius T Foobar]

Remember, mono/moonlight are *open source*.. not even just a binary blob provided by Microsoft.

Not so fast. If you want to watch video on Silverlight, you have to install binary codecs supplied by Microsoft/Novell.

Sorry, but this is clearly Microsoft's classic Embrace/Extend/Extinguish play. If they manage to kill off Flash, just watch how fast Moonlight gets sidetracked.

Re:Or not

[mR.bRiGhTsId3]

Fortunately for you, you don't have to install something from microsoft, you have to install something from an open source project. Granted, they lag behind, but its hard to have lock-in when they are pseudo-complete competing implementations for "left-out platforms".
Even though its a different stream, the fact that the website was willing to put up support for other systems sets an excellent precedent.

Re:Or not

[Nazlfrag]

Funny? I second his opinions, but in a surly, stoic and humourless manner.

Re:Or not

[ThrowAwaySociety]

Flash isn't free software though, which is the point here.

Neither is Silverlight. (Moonlight is not Silverlight.)

Gnash is the Free implementation of the Flash spec, such as it is.

Re:Or not

[mweather]

No, the main reason the free flash implementations are lagging, is that they have been reverse engineering the format, unlike the Moonlight people, who have specs to work from.

The specs for Silverlight haven't been out all that much longer than the specs for Flash, and it did have about a decade to reverse engineer before that. The only possible reason they aren't further along is lack of developer interest. What else can that be attributed to but the availability of Flash on Linux?

Re:Or not

[mweather]

I'd prefer that as well, but it's not like Microsoft has released anything for Linux, so again, the comparison is unfair. Not to mention Adobe already has an open spec.

Re:Or not

[Anonymous Coward]

First, moonlight only seems to be available for Linux and I'm on Mac. I don't want to discuss the "you're against Microsoft but you use a Mac?" topic.

Second, I don't care if moonlight were available for Mac OS X. Using this means you are helping and supporting Microsoft in their new takeover attempt.

Things might seem to be all fine and dandy with the mono team right now, but if Microsoft are ever back in a position of power and control, they will likely pull the rug and release a new version of Silverlight and leave the mono team behind. With that crazy "I'm gonna fucking kill Google" boss at the top, you can count on it.

Re:Or not

[byolinux]

Gnash or Swfdec, sure.

Moonlight is deceptive. The code is LGPL, the codecs are EULA.

Re:Or not

[RiotingPacifist]

Fortunately for you, you don't have to install something from microsoft, you have to install something from an open source project.

But you do. You have 3 options:
1) install moonlight from the link then install the microsoft multimedia pack. Thats a no go for me i dont want to replace one proprietary plugin with one and a bit
2) manually download ffmpeg & moonlight and compile moonlight. A royal PITA that didn't work last time i tried (probably a few Gentoo users sitting laughing at how easy it was fo them though)
3) Stick with flash. Hell its not nice but its better than 1 or 2 for me.

Re:Or not

[harlows_monkeys]

(Am I replying to one of Twitter's many accounts?)

There is no tying here. The inauguration was available from dozens of sites, in a wide variety of formats. It was trivial for any Linux user to find multiple sites that would work find with most Linux distributions either out of the box, or with a trivial install of some codecs.

Re:Or not

[benwaggoner]

Even though its a different stream, the fact that the website was willing to put up support for other systems sets an excellent precedent.

Actually, both players consumed the exact same stream. The difference was in the Silverlight application that plays the stream

Stream details:

http://on10.net/blogs/benwagg/The-Obama-Inauguration-coming-to-Linux-and-PowerPC-Macs-Plus-compression-details/

Yea... That means alot.

[Anonymous Coward]

"Microsoft engineers worked hard last night to make this happen."

Didn't they say the same thing about Windows XP a week before release?

Re:Yea... That means alot.

[PinkyDead]

...and again a week after Vista was released.

Change but not all change is good...

[jellomizer]

I am not sure why they just didn't use Flash. I guess Microsoft paid them a lot of money. At least with flash you have native support for Linux, Windows, Mac OS, Solaris, PowerPC Macs. With the GNU Flash equivalent you also allow some of the BSD guys to watch too.

While I am happy that they made an open source port so quickly however. It is just a hack for a one time occasion. For people with different needs will still be left out in the cold.

Re:Change but not all change is good...

[morgan_greywolf]

To be honest, between Silverlight/Moonlight and Flash, Silverlight/Moonlight is obviously the superior technology. It's also, ironically, the more open of the two.

And we've known for a long, long time that Flash was junk. It's just that now that Microsoft has their own competing technology, all of a sudden we're like "What's wrong with Flash?"

Seriously. Just because you or I may not like Microsoft, you have to give props where props are due.

Re:Change but not all change is good...

[jellomizer]

I understand your point that you are talking to the general slashdot crowd. But I personally have been on record neutral or favorable of flash.

Re:Change but not all change is good...

[palegray.net]

It is just a hack for a one time occasion.

Ummm... I just took the ten seconds to install the Moonlight plugin for Firefox 3 (running under Ubuntu 8.04 i386). After I'm done watching the presidential inauguration, what precisely is stopping me from continuing to use the plugin to interact with other Silverlight-based content?

Listen, I'm a fairly serious open source developer myself, and I'm excited about a new technology that attempts to rectify some of the shortcomings we've all suffered from with Flash. Why can't you just give credit where it's due? Feel free to trot out your recent open source software engineering contributions...

Re:Change but not all change is good...

[dreemernj]

They went with something better than flash. It isn't as widely adopted but things like this will increase the rate it is adopted.

The new code MS developers contributed recently may have been quickly implemented, but it really is ignorant to the work that's been going on to refer to MoonLight as a quickly made port/hack. It's been in development since 2007. It's not for a one time occasion.

Re:Change but not all change is good...

[Anonymous Coward]

To be honest, between Silverlight/Moonlight and Flash, Silverlight/Moonlight is obviously the superior technology. It's also, ironically, the more open of the two.

Do enlighten me, how is silverlight superior in such an obvious way? It's not as if flash was standing still for the last 4 years.
Do you honestly think mono will ever be on par to .NET? Not just talking about versions here. I mean really, have you even seen a program using winforms on linux, because it just looks broken most of the time(just as broken as 2 years ago).
Anyway have fun.

Re:Change but not all change is good...

[sumdumass]

Ummm... I just took the ten seconds to install the Moonlight plugin for Firefox 3 (running under Ubuntu 8.04 i386). After I'm done watching the presidential inauguration, what precisely is stopping me from continuing to use the plugin to interact with other Silverlight-based content?

I'm not saying it was done this way but the pesemistic side wants to think that the changes made might have been made in the streaming format specific to this event also. That would mean that after it's done with, it won't work for other things like it did this.

However, I have no proof of this, nor do I plan to look for it. I prefer to be the optimist but MS has failed on working well with others so many times that I can see something like that happening. Just get back with us when you use it successfully again and we will all know I'm wrong. It would make me so happy to be wrong but you asked what's stopping you so I gave a possible answer.

Re:Change but not all change is good...

[mweather]

Ummm... I just took the ten seconds to install the Moonlight plugin for Firefox 3 (running under Ubuntu 8.04 i386). After I'm done watching the presidential inauguration, what precisely is stopping me from continuing to use the plugin to interact with other Silverlight-based content?

Perhaps other content requires features not yet implemented. Are they using DRM for the inauguration? I doubt it. Do most silverlight videos use DRM? Yes. That's kind of it's selling point right now due to Adobe's buggy easily circumvented DRM.

Re:Change but not all change is good...

[Kbac]

"What's wrong with Flash?"

I was never a big fan of Mr. Gordon myself, more of a ninja turtle kinda guy.

Re:Change but not all change is good...

[naz404]

>I am not sure why they just didn't use Flash.
>I guess Microsoft paid them a lot of money.

Some Microsoft people just donated over $200,000 for the inauguration. Koinkidink? You decide.

Microsoft employees donate over $200,000 to Presidential Inauguration. Event to be broadcast via Silverlight.

Re:Change but not all change is good...

[Anonymous Coward]

"Do enlighten me, how is silverlight superior in such an obvious way?"

.NET

Re:Change but not all change is good...

[The Cydonian]

Built-in optimization for multimedia. Streams better. Go to the Singtel Grid Girls site; you'll see 60 videos being loaded in one go (5 * 4 grid with three states for each girl). Not a Flash guy myself, but I'm told streaming it all is a bitch in Flash. Not so in Silverlight.

Re:Change but not all change is good...

[RAMMS EIN]

``I am not sure why they just didn't use Flash.''

Here's a novel idea: why don't they just use a STANDARD VIDEO FORMAT? These can be played on pretty much any computer. No need to complicate things by adding Flash/Silverlight/ActiveX/gremlins to the mix.

Re:Change but not all change is good...

[PitaBred]

Yes there is. Microsoft doesn't profit and get Silverlight installed on thousands upon thousands of PC's if they use a standard video format.

Re:Change but not all change is good...

[isorox]

Here's a novel idea: why don't they just use a STANDARD VIDEO FORMAT?

Because the majority of the browser market doesn't support the <video> tag

Re:Change but not all change is good...

[Anonymous Coward]

To be honest, between Silverlight/Moonlight and Flash, Silverlight/Moonlight is obviously the superior technology. It's also, ironically, the more open of the two.

And we've known for a long, long time that Flash was junk. It's just that now that Microsoft has their own competing technology, all of a sudden we're like "What's wrong with Flash?"

Seriously. Just because you or I may not like Microsoft, you have to give props where props are due.

Superior technology... acording to what metrics?
OS suported?
Developemet tools?
Security?
Market share?
Stability?

Re:Change but not all change is good...

[b4dc0d3r]

Ummm...

If you are using dictation software, please let me know which one because mine doesn't get the number of "m"s accurate, and completely skips ellipses.

Otherwise, you may not be familiar with this intartubes thingy, but you can actually stop to think about what you're typing so you don't have all of the "um", "uh", and other filler words that people use to give themselves time to think. Take all the time you want. And yes, I swear to your chosen deity I will punch the next person who says "umm, hello?", just like I punched the last one. If I had mod points I'd mod you up just because you didn't add a rhetorical "hello?" after it, but it still has the stink of "I'm asking a rhetorical question to prove a point." Actually I do have mod points, that's a silly reason to moderate.

Anyway, the *intent* of the player is a one-time hack. From the MS blog "The only significant limitation is that the SL1 player can only do the 500 Kbps stream - lacking managed code, making a manifest XML parser in JavaScript didn't seem like something we should start testing only nine hours before the event goes live." Sure you can probably figure out how to reuse it, but you're not going to get much use out of it based on the description. It's a temporary patch, and hopefully the rest of Silverlight will catch up so that next time it's ready to go. Until that happens, people with different needs will be left out in the cold.

Yes I feel better, thanks.

Re:Change but not all change is good...

[Toonol]

Flash is proprietary, but it's very close to being a standard video format despite that. I would bet 75% or more of internet streaming video is in that format.

What is another good standardized streaming video format? MPEG and several others are decent, but don't necessary stream well. A download-then-play format won't work. Quicktime just sucks from top to bottom. There's other solutions that are free and standard (the BBC's format, isn't there? And the one being done by the OGG people?), but I'm sure they're installed on less than one in a thousand pcs.

Any way you cut it, though, using Silverlight is a bad idea for everyone but Microsoft.

Re:Change but not all change is good...

[davester666]

But this just helps Microsoft solidify Window's market-share.

By making the spec a revolving door that they control, the only platform that supports everything at any given moment will be Windows. People will figure out that, with a Silver/Moonlight app, if you really want it to work properly, you have to run it on Windows. On other platforms, it may or may not work, or only some things will work.

This use of Moonlight reinforces it, by MS having to make a special, unsupported version of the viewing app for Linux.

Silverlight, just looking at it from a technology viewpoint, looks great. But how it is being used by Microsoft to further their Windows marketshare, makes it not so great (IMHO). That's why I won't install the libraries, let alone use an application based on it.

Of course, I feel similarly about Adobe AIR, because it just dumbs down applications to Adobe's LCD support. And it doesn't help that on Mac OS X, they bundled it with Acrobat Reader and force you to install AIR if you want to use it to view PDF's (no asking the user, they just bang up an AuthServices dialog with no information and you need to authorize it to run Reader the first time), but Reader doesn't actually use it (they just bloated Reader with this to trick people into installing AIR). You can uninstall AIR afterward, but only if you notice it's been installed.

Re:Change but not all change is good...

[Anonymous Coward]

lots of Microsoft astroturfing is all it is. You see tons of this on every post about a Microsoft product/technology these days. Belkin got busted, you can bet others like Microsoft will too.

What good is Silverlight? It is yet another highly proprietary DRM laiden format. What problem does it solve? Why did Microsoft kill the next version of JavaScript in its puppet organization EMCA?

Re:Change but not all change is good...

[palegray.net]

Good heavens man, help is available. :)

It's still progress, and I'm impressed with the level of cooperation between Novell and Microsoft on the effort to get an SL1-compatible Moonlight player working. The fact that I'm impressed with anything related to the Redmond institution is impressive by itself (too many years of dealing with Win32 code left me calloused). I stand by my belief that the Silverlight platform shows immensely more promise for new development than Flash.

Re:Change but not all change is good...

[Anonymous Coward]

Dude... you might wanted to preface that with NSFW.. or at least, Embrassing-if-caught-at-work. EICAW.

And... adding to read-it-later queue :)

Re:Change but not all change is good...

[palegray.net]

I don't agree with DRM from a philosophical standpoint when it acts broadly to only allow me to view content that falls under a particular licensing model. I can't argue with DRM measures designed to enforce specific licensing restrictions on specific works; the people who produce the work have the right to license it any way they see fit, and they certainly have the right to enforce that licensing. Frankly, I'd rather see it attempted (rather badly, usually) in software than see huge gobs of tax dollars spent dealing with infringement issues in the courts.

The fact that I license 90% of my software under the GPLv2 and BSD-style licenses doesn't mean I have any right to tell others how to license their works. DRM isn't automatically "evil" until it's used to deny any and all content that isn't licensed in a particular way. In that event, I'd most likely simply decline to use the product altogether, pursuing a freer alternative instead. There's a reason my servers run Debian.

Re:Change but not all change is good...

[Yfrwlf]

Vorbis and Dirac FTW. Vorbis plays out of the box in Firefox 3.1.

Re:Change but not all change is good...

[T5]

Because Microsoft is playing nice with the new administration and getting a lot of free advertising to boot. Did you see the Photosynth stuff that CNN was drooling over during the festivities today> Yep, that's a Microsoft Labs product.

It's an advertising coup that bodes ill for open source in the new administration.

Re:Change but not all change is good...

[benwaggoner]

While I am happy that they made an open source port so quickly however. It is just a hack for a one time occasion. For people with different needs will still be left out in the cold.

No, it was a hack because the current beta is Silverlight 1.0 compatible (no managed code, just JavaScript for control logic) while the main player was Silverlight 2, using managed code.

So what Novell did in an inspirational rush was reimplement a version of the player using JavaScript.

Now that this model works, it'll be availble for other events. Of course, it won't be needed once Moonlight gets to Silverlight 2 parity.

Details from my blog:
http://on10.net/blogs/benwagg/The-Obama-Inauguration-coming-to-Linux-and-PowerPC-Macs-Plus-compression-details/

Re:Change but not all change is good...

[benwaggoner]

This isn't just about a stream, but a media experience that can incorporate rich media and interactivity. For example, the pop-up stream switcher that's still available in full-screen mode.

Silverlight offers a single plugin that provides XAML + managed code + media support. It's a great fit for developing media player applications that can live in a browser that have features beyond what a classic media player can handle. And then delivering them without having the security issues of installing or running native code, or requiring a user to authenticate or install.

Silverlight 3 will be adding MPEG-4 support, this year, FWIW.

http://on10.net/blogs/benwagg/H264-and-AAC-support-coming-in-Silverlight/

Re:Change but not all change is good...

[ion.simon.c]

Silverlight 3 will be adding MPEG-4 support, this year, FWIW.

How far behind will Moonlight be?

Re:Change but not all change is good...

[benwaggoner]

Since we deliver the codec pack, that doesn't need to wait for a Moonlight implementation, so it'll hopefully be faster. It's too early to talk about specific schedules, though, as we haven't even announced a release date for the H.264 version of Silverlight.

For example, the current Moonlight 1.0 beta codec pack includes all of the SL2 codecs (specifically WMA 10 Pro which wasn't included in Silverlight 1.0).

Re:Change but not all change is good...

[ion.simon.c]

Since we deliver the codec pack, that doesn't need to wait for a Moonlight implementation...

Understood.
However, when Silverlight is at rev 3, how long will it take Moonlight to catch up? Also, how likely is it that many Silverlight MPEG4 players will be using rev 3 features, rendering them incompatible with Moonlight for a (long?) while?

The best way to watch the inauguration

[BadAnalogyGuy]

I was on the National Mall for Bill Clinton's second inauguration, so let me suggest that the absolute best way to watch the Presidential inauguration is to watch it on the news that evening.

They'll cut out all the boring crap. You don't have to spend all morning standing around in the freezing cold. And you don't have to miss work.

Re:The best way to watch the inauguration

[markov_chain]

And since it's at night, you could really watch it under moonlight!

Open Source ?

[pmarini]

well, I guess that is what happens when the spec(ification)s for a technology are publicly available... you don't need the "lock-in" tool to use the technology, you can simply build your own...

<joke> time to start the nano-factories...

Re:Open Source ?

[palegray.net]

Damnit, you're dashing the hopes of thousands of young engineers who so desperately something to reverse engineer! You are truly an insensitive clod.

MS makes a very compelling case

[AvitarX]

I just downloaded it, it was a 64-bit XPI.

Way easier than installing flash, now I am curious if it will work.

Additionally, the client is open source, and Adobe has wielded the software patent hammer in the past (against flash I think even). So it's not easy to call MS particularly the greater evil here.

Re:MS makes a very compelling case

[Ed Avis]

Moonlight is open source, but the codecs are not - they are binary blobs written by (gulp) Microsoft. But for those living in patent-brain-damaged countries, it's about the least bad of several bad alternatives.

Adobe has done some 'evil' things but then so has every software company, even Google. I don't think that playing corporate melodrama, picking goodies and baddies, is a sensible way to decide what software to use. Judge whether you have freedom to use, share and change the software in each case. (For the Flash player the answer is clearly no, although Gnash is getting better.)

Re:MS makes a very compelling case

[conlaw]

The install took me about 20 seconds, because I had to twice tell Firefox it was okay to download the program. Although I've been anti-Microsoft for several years, I have to give them kudos for this. Happy Say Goodbye to Dubya Day to everyone.

Re:MS makes a very compelling case

[Yfrwlf]

*re-reads Microsoft's history, their dealings with Linux, of EEEing everyone, of breaking standards and ultimately never allowing things to be completely open and always having some kind of strings attached*

Yeah, I do think their past behavior matters. I'm not touching Microsoft with a ten foot pole.

Or going within chair throwing distance, for that matter.

Re:MS makes a very compelling case

[Anonymous Coward]

I wonder if they have a mock basement for the linux test cases. I kid, honestly the links were dying in our office. I wonder if there was some linux user solving their connection problem that way this morning. How easy was it to find (I didn't RTFA). Kudos to microsoft for making a deadline and providing a basic service.

Silverlight is the way to go

[El Lobo]

Silverlight is just a pleasure to program in. Being a subset of dotnet you have just a gazillion great classes at the top of your fingers for you to use in any language you want that just supports .NET.

Re:Silverlight is the way to go

[Anonymous Coward]

Silverlight is just a pleasure to program in. Being a subset of dotnet you have just a gazillion great classes at the top of your fingers for you to use in any language you want that just supports .NET.

Virus writers and script kiddies agree.

Re:Silverlight is the way to go

[Anonymous Coward]

I like how truth is rated funny.

Re:Silverlight is the way to go

[im_thatoneguy]

Silverlight is just a pleasure to program in. Being a subset of dotnet you have just a gazillion great classes at the top of your fingers for you to use in any language you want that just supports .NET.

This is modded funny--only because there are evidently at least 3 moderators who have never programed anything in ActionScript: the only programming language more frustrating than a crude stick and a punchcard.

Wow

[Yfrwlf]

I almost swallowed my toothbrush seeing that headline. Wait wait, here's us Linux users rushing to view the Inaguration in a Microsoft format when we can view it in plenty of other formats instead...

.........

Good interpretation, I know. *bow* ^^

Re:Wow

[Ed Avis]

Is any news source streaming the ceremony in a truly open format? (One that doesn't require binary blobs to watch legally in the US.)

Re:Wow

[Yfrwlf]

Dunno, you'd hope so since it is the government, free and equal access should be their goal.

Oh God no!

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't need to see any more media masturbation at the mere mention of Obama.

Re:Oh God no!

[zeridon]

I indeed second ...

What the hell is an inaguration (don't explain me i know) something boring, some speeches, some ... stupid stuff. I really don't care about this shit. I care almost that much who the US president is. So ... PLEASE cut the crap.

Re:Oh God no!

[Anonymous Coward]

Oh please. Give it a rest.

It is a historic occasion in that the first African American president of the United States is being inaugurated.

Millions of African Americans are witnessing something that many of them never in their wildest dreams believed they'd see in their lifetimes.

I didn't vote for the man, regardless of that he won, and as of this afternoon he will be my president. I am happy to witness this historic moment myself and I am happy for those people for whom this event is a dream come true.

Re:Oh God no!

[Anonymous Coward]

Are you sure that we haven't already had an African American president? Is the color of the skin what truly defines being African American or is it ancestry? I've seen articles (like this) that discuss several past presidents with African American heritage.

• Jefferson, who served two terms between 1801 and 1809, was described as the "son of a half-breed Indian squaw and a Virginia mulatto father,"
• President Andrew Jackson was the son of an Irish woman who married a black man.
• Lincoln was said to have been the illegitimate son of an African man
• President Warren Harding, the 29th president, had black ancestors between both sets of parents.
• Coolidge, the nation's 30th president, served between 1923 and 1929 and supposedly was proud of his heritage.

While Obama may be the first dark skinned African American, applying the "first African American president" to him could be seen as discounting the heritage of past presidents.

Mij

Re:Oh God no!

[Anonymous Coward]

This leads to the question of "how black" does one need to be to be considered "African American". President Obama, regardless of the percentage of his heritage, represents a real change in the diverse culture of the country. He may not be the "first African American" president but he represents overcoming the barrier many African Americans face. - MD

Re:Oh God no!

[Anonymous Coward]

It happens every 4 years big deal!

Re:Oh God no!

[Anonymous Coward]

Oh please. Give it a rest.

It is a historic occasion in that the first African American president of the United States is being inaugurated.

True.

But Walter Cronkite didn't act like he wanted to slobber Neil Armstrong's knob when Apollo 11 landed on the moon.

And that event had a helluva lot more historical significance than Barack Obama. Despite the narcissism of "Yes we can" and "we are the ones we've been waiting for", a thousand years from now Obama will be at best remembered like some random Egyptian Pharaoh. In other words, not much at all.

Yet Neil Armstrong will forever be the first human to walk on another celestial body.

Yet the media is swooning in self-indulgent arrogance at Barack Obama.

And if his African-American heritage is so damn important, why the hell does that same media hurl so much vitriol at black Americans like Clarence Thomas?

So let's cut the bullshit. The celebration over Obama's inauguration is a partisan circle-jerk, and the biggest partisans are the media. Because the orgasmic Obamatrons need to get over their "Yes we can!" selves and their historic footnote.

Re:Oh God no!

[Chris Burke]

Are you sure that we haven't already had an African American president? Is the color of the skin what truly defines being African American or is it ancestry?

With regards to the social prejudices and obstacles that make the election of Barack Obama a historic event? Skin color, absolutely. Hell, there are plenty of dark-skinned people from places other than Africa that get lumped in with African Americans.

To quote a slashdot post from some time back, answering the question "Are we so racist that skin color is all that matters?" -- "Yes. What part of 'black' didn't you understand?"

While Obama may be the first dark skinned African American, applying the "first African American president" to him could be seen as discounting the heritage of past presidents.

That's may be true from a historical perspective. However it is at least as significant that he is the first president who is considered African American, and who self-identifies as such. In those other President's times the social cost of being considered black would have prevented them from being President, to say the absolute least. There's a vast difference between now and then, and this particular turning point is a historic demonstration of that progress.

Re:Oh God no!

[Anonymous Coward]

Plus the fact that his Cult of Personality rivals that of Joseph Stalin...

Re:Oh God no!

[up2ng]

Oh Please..................

I am fucking tired of always hearing 1st African American president this 1st African American president that !
How about we just call him what he is.......... The new President !
Enough of this divisive bullshit we have grown accustomed to, stop pointing out the differences and encourage the similarities it makes a lot more sense !

There should not be this title that constantly follows him around " 1st African American president " who fucking cares, all I want is a President(whether i voted for him or not !) I don't care if he White, Black or has Polka Dots. I just want someone to do the Job !

I didn't vote for him, not because he was African American but because I didn't agree with his ideals and I am not a 'cult of personality' follower. I just like my money in my pocket where it belongs, I should decide to do with it as I wish. I didn't work for it so someone else can spend it for me.

Re:Oh God no!

[Lemmy Caution]

Look, what if you work at a place where every mail server for the last 200+ years has been an Exchange server. You've been using Linux for years, but for some reason, they never implemented a Linux server in any significant infrastructure roles. You would complain about it, and they would say, "look, it's just a coincidence that Microsoft products get installed everywhere: they're just the best at what they do!"

Then, finally, they install a Linux-based mail server. Are you saying you would say, "stop calling it the Linux-based mail server! It's just the mail server! Enough of this divisive bullshit!" Or would you say, "gee, it's nice that we have a Linux mail server finally."

Bitter

[Anonymous Coward]

Miguel and a bunch of Microsoft employees worked late last night to make all of this happen, which was very considerate. This is a nice thing to do for linux users around the world.

Of course I don't think any of them imagined that it would have any effect on the bitterness over at Slashdot.

Re:Bitter

[volsung]

Self-selection bias. The people most likely to hit the reply button will be angry, bitter and/or annoyed.

Re:Bitter

[NoTheory]

Of course I don't think any of them imagined that it would have any effect on the bitterness over at Slashdot.

And i'm sure that they, like myself, were totally shocked at the rising of the sun again today. Can you imagine the odds!

TBH, i'm surprised to find so many positive comments (i, semi-jokingly, wonder about astroturfing).

Re:Bitter

[_Sprocket_]

I'm sure Microsoft employees work hard every day on (almost) everything that Microsoft produces. I'm not sure why this would be considered remarkable or especially praise-worthy for Linux users.

Re:Bitter

[Anonymous Coward]

If not having a tightly-shut mind and refusing to write "MS" as "M$" qualifies as astroturfing, then I suppose I'm the worst among them.

I am such a fool for not making a religion out of stupid middleware technology. I really need to get my priorities straight.

Re:Bitter

[Nazlfrag]

Surprisingly, a lot of comments have been of the "I'm no fan of MS, but kudos to them for this" variety. I'm not going to install it for the inauguration - hell I'm Australian and still I can watch it live on two free to air stations or the BBC, CNN and Fox cable coverage - but still I congratulate MS for catering to the mac and linux communities when really they could have easily ignored them.

Three words...

[Anonymous Coward]

No thank you.

Hulu is advertising; they're Flash

[LoadWB]

Hulu is advertising the inauguration live. Will they be using Silverlight for this, too, or will they use the traditional Flash player??

Re:Hulu is advertising; they're Flash

[Anonymous Coward]

They're showing Fox News right now. It's Flash.

Re:Hulu is advertising; they're Flash

[im_thatoneguy]

Considering Hulu can't even push out a 480p video that doesn't lag on a relatively modern computer I would have to conclude it's purely flash.

I've seen silverlight videos that were 720p running perfectly smooth on a 2ghz pentium D. On the same computer a 480p flash movie is unplayable.

Silverlight's playback performance is in another league all together from Flash. You won't be seeing true HD material through a flash wrapper any time soon. Even YouTubeHD (which is like 480x320) is dodgy.

Hulu shows skip and stutter on my Core 2 Duo laptop. It's not Hulu's fault. It's just that Flash sucks.

Barack on your mobile ?

[pmarini]

not sure if you noticed, but if I try to write Barack in a text message, it comes out as Capabl, must mean something, right ?

on a less jolly note (and to stay on-topic), I guess that using Flash technology would have allowed many mobile users also to watch this on-the-go, as I don't believe that a "portable" SilverLight client exists so far, am I right ?

Re:Barack on your mobile ?

[Anonymous Coward]

Silverlight Mobile is coming soon to Windows Media and other devices such as anything based on Series 60.

The demos I've seen look good, although not sure how it handles video.

Saying that I've never seen Flash work on my mobile (Nokia N95 8GB), its meant to have Flash Lite but it just never seems to do anything.

Two words.

[palegray.net]

Why not?

WHY ?!

[unity100]

i can do it much easier without downlading anything at http://edition.cnn.com/video/fb/facebook.html?stream=stream1

it comes with a 1-2 million crowded facebook event to boot.

Re:WHY ?!

[sumdumass]

I just followed your link and it said something about having to install some octoset improvement plugin or something for flash. I refused to install it and the video and all plays perfectly fine.

You have any idea what the hell that is and why it claims it is needed when it obviously isn't? It sort of sounds like it might be some sort of spyware or something. I don't trust CNN anymore then I do Fox or any other mass news company.

Re:WHY ?!

[Sporkinum]

It's probably the facebook crap that causes that. Facebook is blocked at work and the video feed still works.

Re:WHY ?!

[Anonymous Coward]

Really? How?

Because from here it looks like I'd need to download the crappy proprietary Flash plugin that keeps crashing my browser. Why would I do that, when I can use an open source program like Moonlight?

Re:WHY ?!

[Lulfas]

Just don't let it install and give it a sec. The video will still pop right up.

I'm on a PowerPC Mac you insensitive clod

[Charles Dodgeson]

And there doesn't appear to be a moonlight port for OS X.

Re:I'm on a PowerPC Mac you insensitive clod

[Anonymous Coward]

sucks to use a proprietary platform, doesn't it? Oh well, guess you should have thought of that before you bought it. Live and learn ;-)

Re:I'm on a PowerPC Mac you insensitive clod

[LizardKing]

According to Miguel's post, there was also "MacOS/PPC streaming". Don't know why the stream has to be architecture and OS specific, or whether he really meant that the same code that enabled the Linux/x86 port to reach this point has also contributed to an OS X port.

Re:I'm on a PowerPC Mac you insensitive clod

[Anonymous Coward]

According to Miguel's post, there was also "MacOS/PPC streaming". Don't know why the stream has to be architecture and OS specific, or whether he really meant that the same code that enabled the Linux/x86 port to reach this point has also contributed to an OS X port.

Mac PowerPC users can watch the event using Silverlight 1 - all platforms consume the same media stream.

Currently, there is no port available of Moonlight for OS X on PPC.

- Tom Taylor | Microsoft Silverlight

Re:I'm on a PowerPC Mac you insensitive clod

[Anonymous Coward]

The original code for the inauguration was a Silverlight 2.0 stack which is not currently supported on Linux with Moonlight or on the Mac with PowerPC.

So the player that was written last night for watching the streams helps both Linux and Mac/PPC users.

Re:I'm on a PowerPC Mac you insensitive clod

[Alioth]

It was broadcast live by the BBC using the Flash-based iPlayer (on the news website so probably not limited to UK IP addresses).

Incidentally, Arethra Franklin started singing the British National Anthem. The music she sang is the same for the first few bars, I was half expecting that Obama was going to invite Her Royal Britannic Majesty to take over :-)

Re:I'm on a PowerPC Mac you insensitive clod

[tgd]

It doesn't stream onto an abacus, either.

cnn.com/live is using Flash

[Anonymous Coward]

http://www.cnn.com/live is using Flash

One word.

[Anonymous Coward]

Because.

be prepared to be modded to the floor

[Anonymous Coward]

thou shalt not defame flash on Slashdot (even though the general Slashdot consensus is that flash is trash).

Flash?

[Anonymous Coward]

Why not just use flash like the BBC ?

Or is that far too simple?

No moonlight for the secound comming

[baomike]

I don't think I would watch the secound comming if I had to use moonlight.
MSFT is is just to evil to compomise with.

Another option for Linux users

[tkrotchko]

TV. It seems to work everywhere. I'm guessing it will be broadcast live in several countries, and even when it's not, the evening news will have the summary.

And of course, YouTube will have the speech later today.

I don't think waiting a few hours presents any sort of hardship.

Re:Another option for Linux users

[ChefInnocent]

First, some of us do not have TV, so the internet is our method of receiving a broadcast. Second, there is a great deal of hype/enthusiasm/hope surrounding this event, and to see it live adds extra meaning to the event. When was the last time you recall a President greeted with so much good will? I can say it has never happened in my lifetime.

If you want to watch the stream...

[knarf]

You can also just use vlc: vlc 'http://msstudios-chan2-wsx.wm.llnwd.net/msstudios_chan1_wsx?MSWMExt=.asf' or vlc 'http://87.248.216.216:80/msstudios_chan1_wsx?MSWMExt=.asf'

This way you get fullscreen, stutter-free sound and video without agreeing to any license agreements or burning a hole in your processor... and you don't have to install anything besides vlc (but that was already installed, wasn't it?)

Re:If you want to watch the stream...

[edalytical]

Very cool. It's not working for me though. I got a VLC error then the video started to stream for about half a second before it froze. In all fairness it's most likely my ISP, my 5 Mbps connection is running at 1% of it's capacity.

Re:If you want to watch the stream...

[HRbnjR]

I was also able to open that URL in Totem and watch, thanks!

it doesn't work afterall...

[Anonymous Coward]

I installed the plugin. it is 1.0, the offical stream requires 2.0. You still have to find a different source to watch the inauguration. I have uninstalled the plugin. I hope it didn't leave anything behind.

Re:it doesn't work afterall...

[mweather]

Yep, all this fanfare for nothing.

aaah

[unity100]

around 100.000 people (and more) as of this moment are using that crappy proprietary flash plugin without any issues. if your browser keeps crashing, you have a problem. this is much easier than downloading another program and set it up, even if its (supposedly) open source.

Re:aaah

[ion.simon.c]

Either that, or he's using Flash 10 on Linux. :)

Seriously, I'd *really* love for Adobe to move their SWF devs to the gnash team. While gnash may be less capable, it has yet to crash or hang Firefox in the month that I've been using it. Adobe's plugin screwed FFox at least once a week.

yes

[unity100]

octoshape thingy may be the distributed video thingamajig i think.

non-FOSS Codecs

[The River]

Although it's great that we have Moonlight as an open source implementation of Silverlight, it seems that it downloads a non-FOSS codec in order to play the video that's currently being aired on the site.

Crashes my firefox.

[wonkavader]

Installed it, and when I go back to that page, my browser crashes. This honestly makes a lot of sense when I hear that that rushed to get it out. It's to be expected.

Ah well. I'll install it again in four years.

Linux users - use this page!

[yossarianuk]

http://www.pic2009.org/page/content/linuxplayer - works fine moonlight link - http://www.go-mono.com/moonlight/

Re:Linux users - use this page!

[snadrus]

These links work great for me in Ubuntu 8.10/FF ! The frequent pauses look a little .. Slashdotted

Re:Linux users - use this page!

[neowolf]

Thank you! Didn't know we needed a special page.

This works beautifully!

Can anyone provide proof that it works?

[Protocron]

I downloaded and installed it, and it worked perfectly as far as I can tell. But I can't find a link that says: "This content is SilverLight!!!" And then the video.. So I see content playing. Content that I found searching for silverlight and video. But nothing that is obvious. If it does work as advertised, then heck (never thought I'd say it), Good on you Microsoft!

doesn't work

[Upsilonish]

"Moonlight was compiled with 1.0 support only. This page requires 2.0 support."
oops?

Re:doesn't work

[yossarianuk]

This page doesn't say that it works fine. http://www.pic2009.org/page/content/linuxplayer

Re:doesn't work

[Anonymous Coward]

That's what Moonlight currently displays when trying to load Silverlight 2 content. Click on the link right below that which says something to the effect of "Silverlight player for Linux", which is the Silverlight 1 / Moonlight 1-compatible player.

Re:doesn't work

[Zwoop]

Hmmm, worked for me, after I clicked on the link at the bottom saying something in the line with "Linux compatible player". It then went ahead and asked if I wanted to install the Codec, which I did, and then it worked fine (watching it right now).

Re:doesn't work

[neowolf]

Ditto. Glad they at least TRIED to get it to work.

My company blocks all streaming video anyway, so I'm just going to have to resort to watching it on TV in the conference room...

It doesn't work for me.

[JacobSteelsmith]

I installed the plugin using the link in the summary for Firefox 3.0.5 on x86_64 and restarted the browser. When I go to http://www.pic2009.org/page/content/live I get the message "Moonlight was compiled for 1.0 support only. This page requires 2.0 support. I don't care to watch the inauguration, just was curious to see if it really worked.

Re:It doesn't work for me.

[yossarianuk]

GO TO http://www.pic2009.org/page/content/linuxplayer NOT http://www.pic2009.org/page/content/live

I'm watching using Moonlight now. Observations...

[Derge]

It installed easily and with little effort. It seems to work pretty well. The video looks fine. The sound seems to be really good, but it is hard to tell for sure because I don't have anyway to compare it. After installing Moonlight, I visited silverlight.net in order to run some demos. None of the four that I tried actually worked. They either indicated that I needed to install Silverlight or that I needed a different version of Silverlight. As for the inauguration video, you have to click a special link on the web page to use the "Linux-compatible Silverlight Player." Two observations about that: How useful is Moonlight if the web developer has to do more work or otherwise Linux users will not be able to view the content? Also, isn't it kind of cool that the Presidential Inaugural Committee went to all that trouble to support Linux? Really, that is pretty cool. What do you all think?

doesn't work, hehe :)

[Anonymous Coward]

The video page shows:
Moonlight was compiled with 1.0 support only.
This page requires 2.0 support.

M$ FAILS AGAIN !

Re:doesn't work, hehe :)

[King Monkeyman]

The video page shows: Moonlight was compiled with 1.0 support only. This page requires 2.0 support.

M$ FAILS AGAIN !

Well, there's a linux-compatible tab at the bottom that DOES work. If by work, you mean eat up 75% of your cpu cycles after showing 10 seconds of streaming video and then freezing. (Kubuntu 8.10, FF 3.05) Oh well, no harm done, I'll just uninstall it and get back to work...

DO NOT INSTALL

[dotancohen]

I do not know which extension is conflicting with the mono extension, but Firefox now takes over 4 minutes to start up, and the same amount of time to load google. I thought that it was locked up, but I decided to sit it out to see if it would work. It did, after four minutes! Kubuntu 8.04, Firefox 3.0.5.

I have a few extensions, so with 4+ minute startup times it is slow going finding out where the conflict is. I use the all in one sidebar, autoauth cookieculler, flashblock, link alert, locationbar limit, locationbar2, menu editor, no squint, openbook, repagination, scrapbook, searchwith, stylish, tagsifter, text link, tiny menu, tree style tab, vimperator, and web developer. If you use any of these, then be forewarned!

Flashblock equivalent for silverlight?

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm not installing any silverlight or faux-silverlight moonlight crap until there's an equivalent plugin as there is for flash: flashblock. Sorry.

Re:I'm watching using Moonlight now. Observations.

[The Cydonian]

Moonlight can never be a substitute for Silverlight. They just back-ported the stream from SL 2.0 to SL 1.0 to get it running this time around.

You're right about the Linux hack though; the fact that they pulled this off this fast is quite a feat myself. Extreme, clanky balls made out of brass as well; if I was leading the effort at such a high-profile website, I'd have enforced a code-freeze at least a week earlier. (May be that's why I'm not in that position. Hmmmm.)

Patents

[tepples]

well, I guess that is what happens when the spec(ification)s for a technology are publicly available... you don't need the "lock-in" tool to use the technology, you can simply build your own...

With one exception: technologies covered by patents that are not licensed for implementation in Free designs. The article is about a video stream, and the codecs used for that tend to be patent minefields, apart from H.261 (expired recently) and Theora (freely licensed by On2).

this page does work

[yossarianuk]

http://www.pic2009.org/page/content/linuxplayer

Hard sandbox

[argent]

I'm not installing any silverlight or faux-silverlight moonlight crap until there's an equivalent plugin as there is for flash: flashblock.

That's half the battle, for damn sure.

I'm not installing it until there's a hard sandbox. How's that code verifier going, Miguel? It seems to be sufficiently dodgy to keep server types from accepting CIL, so why should people running browsers be any more trusting?

CNN Live

[mkro]

CNN Live (a href="http://edition.cnn.com/live/">http://cnn.com/live/ works fine for me in Ubuntu, but thanks.

Or not.

[c_g_hills]

It is not for "Linux users", it is for "Linux Firefox users". As yet there is no standard npapi-compatible Moonlight plugin. I enquired about this yesterday and was informed that once Moonlight 2 is out the door, cross-browser compatibility will be improved. It would be useful if the Linux Standards Base provided a spec with a standard path for browser plugins.

and ...

[po134]

and you people bitched about me telling you you were posting bad informations on your frontpage... grow up with your "troll" :/
see http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1095771&cid=26519147

Hmm..

[Anonymous Coward]

The Linux player doesn't work too well. Keeps stuttering every 2 minutes and then freezes until reload.

Re:Hmm..

[Anonymous Coward]

Works fine for me on Ubuntu 8.10, video was smooth, seemed perfectly in sync with the audio and everything. Far better than Flash for me.

Re:I'm watching using Moonlight now. Observations.

[RAMMS EIN]

``Also, isn't it kind of cool that the Presidential Inaugural Committee went to all that trouble to support Linux?''

I think it's dumb that they have to "support" any particular platform. If they had just used standards, any decent platform would have worked.

Re:I'm watching using Moonlight now. Observations.

[Derge]

Well, that's the problem isn't it. There is not yet a video standard that all browsers support. Mozilla decided to support Ogg-Vorbis, despite the fact that it did not get approved (yet) as a web standard. At the moment, I'm glad that folks made an effort to ensure that Linux users like me were able to watch this very important event. It was important to me anyway. Thank you.

Chanj

[Mesa MIke]

You can haz it.

WOHOO!!!

[Oktober Sunset]

Bush out and MS being nice, on the same day? Did I smoke a really fat doobie last night?

hulu.com has it in flash

[Anonymous Coward]

so just fyi for everyone out there who would rather watch it in flash, hulu.com will also be broadcasting the inauguration live. there's a link right on their front page (obviously).

That just means you're young

[Anonymous Coward]

"When was the last time you recall a President greeted with so much good will? I can say it has never happened in my lifetime."

A couple of times, actually. Eisenhower (although I was too young to remember), Kennedy was exactly the same, Reagan's first term was pretty big (he was widely supported), and even Clinton's first term had a lot of enthusiasm.

Obama's inauguration is pretty much the same as Kennedy's.

And I agree with the parent. Watching a few minutes delay is not a big deal. And if you want to hear the sound, Shortwave had it.

You're just being very young.

Re:That just means you're young

[kelnos]

You're just being very young.

So what? How does that make his argument any less valid. In his (and many other people's) lifetime, no, there hasn't been a US President greeted with so much good will. To top that off, it's a landmark event for the US. This may be old hat to you, but that doesn't mean it's not a big deal to others.

*light....

[jimpop]

Who needed silverlight or moonlight to watch? Numerous public sources streamed the event in flash. I'm sure this Miguel guy is a nice fellow, but his dancing with/for Microsoft doesn't seem right to me.

Excellent

[spinkham]

Worked well here.
Hopefully some of the work done here pushes us closer to a Netflix option for Linux also, but this stream was DRM free, and needed a seperate silverlight 1 runtime for Linux.. Seems like we still have a way to go.

Wake up people

[BhaKi]

The very fact that you need Microsoft's help indicates that Moonlight is not the way to go.

Funny...

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm curious as to where all of this will lead... Although Flash does what I need it to do at the moment I am intrigued by the possibilities of a semi-open web movie player.

It would be so ironic if the web movie player that comes to dominate Linux Boxes was based on a Microsoft technology.

I must tip my hat to Microsoft for this one and hope they realize that Open Source can help everyone in the end.

No one I know cares about open sourcing windows anyways - we want open source apps, we already have open source Operating systems en masse.

The real question is " Do I care?"

[Anonymous Coward]

I've already watched it in adobe's player and I didn't have to feel like I'm using the product of someone that hates me.

Re:I'm watching using Moonlight now. Observations.

[ion.simon.c]

*facepalm*

1) Many other sites on the web were streaming with Flash-based players.
2) MPEG2 and 4 can be streamed. They were kinda designed for that. Who doesn't have a media player installed that'll do MPEG4?

Moonlight:

[Anonymous Coward]

Because watching it on Hulu is for teh gays.

aaaaaaannnd

[unity100]

why is the parent flamebait then. everything that is even mildly criticizing or in refusal of anything microsoft gets modded down these days. or are we experiencing a fanboi surge following the wake of windows 7 beta ? or is it something like they did with bloggers before vista launch, a marketing trick ?

Re:I'm watching using Moonlight now. Observations.

[Derge]

Patents on formats, codecs, and streaming methods are the issues with those, I believe. Even if the end user has the proper software, I'm not sure about the content creator or distributor being confident that they won't get sued by someone. I'm not positive that these legal worries are real, but I've heard them repeated over and over again. A patent unencumbered open standard for online video and audio stuff would be huge. At least for stuff distributed over the web, the web browser would seem to be a good way to distribute the player software and codecs. Just my thoughts.

Re:I'm watching using Moonlight now. Observations.

[ion.simon.c]

A patent unencumbered open standard for online video and audio stuff would be huge.

The xiph.org codecs (Theora, Ogg, Speex) fit this bill. :D

Also, I doubt that MPEG2/4 is any more patent encumbered than the codecs packaged with the Silverlight player. My point is that we *already* have myriad out-of-browser methods for streaming video. We *already* have methods to embed those apps in the browser chrome. Why do we need to use Silverlight to deliver video?

Re:I'm watching using Moonlight now. Observations.

[Derge]

http://blog.wired.com/business/2009/01/mozilla-goes-to.html

Re:I'm watching using Moonlight now. Observations.

[ion.simon.c]

Yep! Yep! This goes one better than embedding a local app in the chrome. I'm a little stoked about this. However... let's keep watch for MSFT's push to put WMA (and Apple's push to put Quicktime) allover the web. [Assuming that the video tag gets any traction, that is. :/ ]