I can't help wonder how this will affect cross platform unix development of multimedia apps. New Linux stuff will do doubt start being targetted to ALSA only (and quite right too, some things *need* a unified architecture). I did a google for ALSA FreeBSD but nothing looked very hopeful (I mean the L is an L for a reason!).
I'd be unhappy if Id engines stopped being FreeBSD friendly.
If I fly to the US and buy these goods I'm expected to pay VAT on my way back into the EU, this proposal just brings downlaods into line with that. No big deal really (well no more than taxes being levvied at all).
Good to see the editors not adding any hyperbole or saying that proposals were law or anything! This is still vapourlaw at the moment.
I wonder if p2p will be classed as tax evasion. I remember customs officials in Poland taxing Free Software imports by perceived value rather than actual cost. Turning up at Heathrow with a holdall full of Brand New US sourced cd's and saying "I was given them" might not quite work either!
20k sterling + profit share + pension + health, programming for a startup
shareholder of an ISP
shareholder of a recruitment agency
work from home telecommuting
own house
own car
Your arguments are based entirely on the idea that humans are no better than animals. I know, that's my point. That isn't a refuation it's restating my hypothesis.
Nature, red in tooth and claw, has maimed, poisoned, plagued, and eventually killed more animals than humanity will ever know So that makes cruelty & murder okay?
"Genocide" isn't a very pretty word, is it? Neither is "hypocrisy." yawn, so many times
mass extinction of farm animals - so what?
Species don't count.
If you knew your child would be slaughtered at 1 year old would you become pregnant?
man is the only "animal" that can be cruel or kind. don't be supid
Look in the mirror. What do you see? myself, nothing more
we're talking actual starvation. or actual shooting, so what
Perhaps this indifference to humanitity it's not indifference, it's no deliniation
you fail to notice I don't shoot anyone in the face
By the way, the idea that humans are no better than animals was a central tenet of Nazism. No it wasn't.
If the human spirit is valueless, if the human body is worth no more than that of a pig I contend that the pig spirit has value not that the human one doesn't. That the pig is no less than a human. Major difference.
I do think the conditions some farm animals are forced to live in is appalling. I choose not to perpetuate that by not being involved, what are you doing?
You, sir, need to rethink your assumptions Why?
I don't kill animals, I don't eat them & try to exploit them as little as possible. What should I change in that, that would make the world better?
vegan lifestyle : There isn't one really. It's a series of ongoing choices made by the individual. Vegan is just a quick label to tell/warn other people.
As for the deer, they got along just fine for millions of years before people shot them. Looks like the shooters killed all the predators. What a mess! A difficult situation, my in the field decision would probably be different from the one I'm about to type. The population means nothing. Shooting an individual means everything to that individual. Deer, like most animals, self regulate their populations to food supply. Weak animals can't breed. The population will find a sustainable level given enough time.
Solution, do nothing. Except maybe take some food down once in a while.
Is it better to let nature take its course even if that's bad for the animals? "the animals" don't exist. Individuals do. Nature will take it's course no matter what we do.
Can humans and their tools ever be seen as part of nature? They already are, humans seem to think that they aren't animals. The tools at our disposal means we can produce more food with less animal products. You may have gathered it's the suffereing at the individual level that I feel is important. That may not be true of other vegans.
Is there ever a time when a human can kill an animal and not be "exploiting" it? I try to think without the distinction between species. So replace the word animal with the word human and see how you feel about that. That's generally how I feel.
Is it acceptable to "exploit" an individual animal for the benefit of the group? An eternal philisophical question. Humans often sacrifice themselves for the good of the group. My existence is exploited every day by those that have power over my life. Everywhere I turn profit is deemed king over people. Power & wealth isn't distributed anywhere near fairly.
If you stop considering animals and people distinct then your own values about fairness and cooperation can be applied.
Just because a cow can't talk doesn't mean it has no emotions. It's such biological arrogance to consider NO OTHER BEING except once branch of hairless monkeys sentient.
It's simple to see that a dog will feel hungry or cold. So why not lonely or happy?
I've worked on farms and been involved in the "animal rights" movement. I used to eat meat. I used to shoot rabbits and birds. I've seen first hand the disdain people have for the creatures around them. It's not difficult to witness the many terrible ways humans treat each other.
Here I am in my safe comfortable surroundings. I have no need to eat cows so why make them die for me? Mass murderers of humans are generally reviled and yet we kill millions and millions of cows, pigs & chickens. It's so wrong.
There's no real reason I shouldn't shoot you in the face and eat your tasty flesh. Out of courtesy, I choose not to and I extend that courtesy to other species. If it came down to it though and I wasn't feeling noble you might find yourself on the barby (unless you got me first of course:)
Carrion - nope, no reason why not (except digestion problems)
thanks for your curiosity, much better than the usual hostility people give me just for being nice!
It's all quite irrational but I have the luxury of choice and this is the choice I've made.
Incedentally and quite ironically I was diagnosed with Crohn's disease a couple of years ago. Recent research has made strong links between the consumption of cows milk and the onset of the disease. Just my luck eh! The cows got me.
I have been involved in direct action to try and highlight the horrors of 3rd world debt resulting in some tokenism from our government.
I am appalled that Western consumerism drives such business models. Almost everything in this room is an imported good manufactured outside my native country.
I try and buy as much of my food as possible from local producers.
So you've got your own electronics manufacturing plant there then I guess. The computer is one you built by hand from locally sourced components I suppose. I'm impressed at your resourcefulness.
a quick google search oh great, thanks for the tip
no google 10 years ago!
side note :
I don't support the exploitation of animals. Obviously the extreme is impossible. I used to be pretty radical about it, I've softened in my later years. I'll go watch a film but I won't make one. The distinctions get blurred and irrational. It's a somewhat irrational stance anyway. I obviously don't avoid the use of electrical transformers. I just do what feels right and these days don't get into people's faces aboutit.
but no meat, eggs, dairy, fish, wool, leather, gelatine, milk, honey and stuff like that.
http://www.milksucks.com
I started in the wake of the big African starvations because meat production wastes food & water that people could use. When British pop stars & tv programs were rasiing money for Ethiopia Britain was importing Ethiopian food and that turned my head a bit. The EEC destroys food to stabilise the economy and people go hungry. I dodn't feel it's right so I decided to do something and the first thing you need to change is yourself.
Ten years later here I am still vegan.
I can take the insults and what have you because there's only one way of life and that's your own!
When I went vegan over 10 years ago I chose to give up my darkroom (paper & film contain gelatine). I've been waiting in earnest for the photographic digital revolution!
Hopefully this will bring down the price of decent digital SLR cameras. All the ones I like the look of are about $1k and I've got too many other things on the list without burning a grand on a camera (+ a decent sized IBM microdrive + lenses etc.etc.)
I wonder if this will bring other benefits like clarity & shutter speeds available.
anyway if you'd like to use my name at https://www.billpayment.co.uk/
feel free
also if you want to charge up my nochex account feel free
Some services will only work if you use your own name because that's what it says on your CC/Debit card and wrong name = no service.
At least reading the EULA lets you know what you're in for and with an email address for each service I can see if they break their "we won't give your email address away" promise.
why not let Linux have the fancy graphics no reason, I use enlightenment after all
a product's goal is to be popular. I think popularity appears lower down the order, behind useful, stable and correct
loosing out hehe they are definately losing the ability to run on my p133 laptop. plan9 would do a better job though, if it supported my laptop's chipset (bah!)
QNX & win95 certainly run fast enough on it. The real problem with it is using generic vga drivers for X. I was going to go for the SVGA vncclient but first try failed and I lost the will to carry on.
1. I don't use Linux
2. wasting cpu cycles on XMMS is er, a waste
3. I've paid more money to Free software than I ever have to non-free (cept games)
4. IHBT
it's always puzzled me, why does Data have to ask the ship for things?
Why doesn't he have a tricorder built into him?
It's like "we need to make the equipment purposely braindead or else the viewers won't know wtf. is going on.
Same as the coppers in The Bill always telling each other what they are doing. "I'm going to put this in a back to stop anyone's fingerprints getting on it". I mean didn't these coppers ever go to cop school! (or watch TheBill and see what the coppers said to each other, er out of stack space
one can roll back the filesystem on a PER PROCESS basis with the yesterday command.
In this way you can narrow down what's broken by for instance using yesterday's c library, or last week's , or last years!
Also take a look at Venti
From: Sean Quinlan To: 9fans Mailing list
For those of you interested in the direction we are heading
with respect to plan 9's file system, you might want to
checkout our paper on Venti that will appear in the
USENIX fast conference.
http://www.cs.bell-labs.com/~seanq/pub.html#venti
Venti is a block level storage server that replaces the optical
juke box for a plan 9 file system. Some of the benefits include:
coalescing of duplicate blocks
compression
no block fragmentation
Also, we have switched from optical to magnetic disks as the storage
technology. I know many of you already use magnetic disks to
"fake" a worm, but for those of us using a optical juke box,
the performance improvement is rather substantial!!
mirror windows.update or connexion.com or wherever the packages come from
sit back and have endless fun
okay okay so all auto update systems probably suffer from this vulnerability not just MS systems but at least you don't have to go to the trouble of finding out where the victim get's their updates from. Ubiquity & market penetration are the mischief's friend
Slashdot Mirror
Sorry for a "What about me" post.
I can't help wonder how this will affect cross platform unix development of multimedia apps. New Linux stuff will do doubt start being targetted to ALSA only (and quite right too, some things *need* a unified architecture). I did a google for ALSA FreeBSD but nothing looked very hopeful (I mean the L is an L for a reason!).
I'd be unhappy if Id engines stopped being FreeBSD friendly.
I guess I'll have to wait and see.
I really don't see the reasoning behind this
Gimme Karma!
If you can't see, you'll never get any
If I fly to the US and buy these goods I'm expected to pay VAT on my way back into the EU, this proposal just brings downlaods into line with that. No big deal really (well no more than taxes being levvied at all).
Good to see the editors not adding any hyperbole or saying that proposals were law or anything! This is still vapourlaw at the moment.
I wonder if p2p will be classed as tax evasion. I remember customs officials in Poland taxing Free Software imports by perceived value rather than actual cost. Turning up at Heathrow with a holdall full of Brand New US sourced cd's and saying "I was given them" might not quite work either!
20k sterling + profit share + pension + health, programming for a startup
shareholder of an ISP
shareholder of a recruitment agency
work from home telecommuting
own house
own car
that sound okay?
might do, tougch choice
as someone pointed me toward gelatine free film I might go that route with Kodak photo CDS
Your arguments are based entirely on the idea that humans are no better than animals.
I know, that's my point. That isn't a refuation it's restating my hypothesis.
Nature, red in tooth and claw, has maimed, poisoned, plagued, and eventually killed more animals than humanity will ever know
So that makes cruelty & murder okay?
"Genocide" isn't a very pretty word, is it? Neither is "hypocrisy."
yawn, so many times
mass extinction of farm animals - so what?
Species don't count.
If you knew your child would be slaughtered at 1 year old would you become pregnant?
man is the only "animal" that can be cruel or kind.
don't be supid
Look in the mirror. What do you see?
myself, nothing more
we're talking actual starvation.
or actual shooting, so what
Perhaps this indifference to humanitity
it's not indifference, it's no deliniation
you fail to notice I don't shoot anyone in the face
By the way, the idea that humans are no better than animals was a central tenet of Nazism.
No it wasn't.
If the human spirit is valueless, if the human body is worth no more than that of a pig
I contend that the pig spirit has value not that the human one doesn't. That the pig is no less than a human. Major difference.
I do think the conditions some farm animals are forced to live in is appalling.
I choose not to perpetuate that by not being involved, what are you doing?
You, sir, need to rethink your assumptions
Why?
I don't kill animals, I don't eat them & try to exploit them as little as possible. What should I change in that, that would make the world better?
oh well, that's that sketch knackered then
that's what I was thinking.
/var/db/pkg/gnome*
%ls -d
/var/db/pkg/gnomeaudio-1.4.0
/var/db/pkg/gnomedb-0.2.90_3
/var/db/pkg/gnomecanvas-0.14.0
/var/db/pkg/gnomelibs-1.4.1.2_2
/var/db/pkg/gnomecontrolcenter-1.4.0.1
/var/db/pkg/gnomeprint-0.29
/var/db/pkg/gnomecore-1.4.0.4_2
/var/db/pkg/gnomevfs-1.0.3
mind you I've never tried to run Gnome proper, enlightenment is my WM and I feel no compunction to change.
vegan lifestyle : There isn't one really. It's a series of ongoing choices made by the individual. Vegan is just a quick label to tell/warn other people.
:)
As for the deer, they got along just fine for millions of years before people shot them. Looks like the shooters killed all the predators. What a mess! A difficult situation, my in the field decision would probably be different from the one I'm about to type. The population means nothing. Shooting an individual means everything to that individual. Deer, like most animals, self regulate their populations to food supply. Weak animals can't breed. The population will find a sustainable level given enough time.
Solution, do nothing. Except maybe take some food down once in a while.
Is it better to let nature take its course even if that's bad for the animals?
"the animals" don't exist. Individuals do. Nature will take it's course no matter what we do.
Can humans and their tools ever be seen as part of nature?
They already are, humans seem to think that they aren't animals. The tools at our disposal means we can produce more food with less animal products. You may have gathered it's the suffereing at the individual level that I feel is important. That may not be true of other vegans.
Is there ever a time when a human can kill an animal and not be "exploiting" it?
I try to think without the distinction between species. So replace the word animal with the word human and see how you feel about that. That's generally how I feel.
Is it acceptable to "exploit" an individual animal for the benefit of the group?
An eternal philisophical question. Humans often sacrifice themselves for the good of the group. My existence is exploited every day by those that have power over my life. Everywhere I turn profit is deemed king over people. Power & wealth isn't distributed anywhere near fairly.
If you stop considering animals and people distinct then your own values about fairness and cooperation can be applied.
Just because a cow can't talk doesn't mean it has no emotions. It's such biological arrogance to consider NO OTHER BEING except once branch of hairless monkeys sentient.
It's simple to see that a dog will feel hungry or cold. So why not lonely or happy?
I've worked on farms and been involved in the "animal rights" movement. I used to eat meat. I used to shoot rabbits and birds. I've seen first hand the disdain people have for the creatures around them. It's not difficult to witness the many terrible ways humans treat each other.
Here I am in my safe comfortable surroundings. I have no need to eat cows so why make them die for me? Mass murderers of humans are generally reviled and yet we kill millions and millions of cows, pigs & chickens. It's so wrong.
There's no real reason I shouldn't shoot you in the face and eat your tasty flesh. Out of courtesy, I choose not to and I extend that courtesy to other species. If it came down to it though and I wasn't feeling noble you might find yourself on the barby (unless you got me first of course
Carrion - nope, no reason why not (except digestion problems)
thanks for your curiosity, much better than the usual hostility people give me just for being nice!
It's all quite irrational but I have the luxury of choice and this is the choice I've made.
Incedentally and quite ironically I was diagnosed with Crohn's disease a couple of years ago. Recent research has made strong links between the consumption of cows milk and the onset of the disease. Just my luck eh! The cows got me.
It might not be good, but that doesn't mean anything.
it means a great deal if you are the animal concerned
that's the point
Try meat sometime. You'll like it.
hey moron, I'm not only 10 years old!
Who says I don't like it anyway?
It's just wrong.
hmm well yes, can't argue with that
I have been involved in direct action to try and highlight the horrors of 3rd world debt resulting in some tokenism from our government.
I am appalled that Western consumerism drives such business models. Almost everything in this room is an imported good manufactured outside my native country.
I try and buy as much of my food as possible from local producers.
So you've got your own electronics manufacturing plant there then I guess. The computer is one you built by hand from locally sourced components I suppose. I'm impressed at your resourcefulness.
2. See hypocrite.
how's that then?
vegans just don't respect the life cycle of animals.
ok i'll bite
er, how is living in a crate part of the life cycle of a pig?
How is living 3 to a 2 foot cage the life cycle of a chicken?
Since when was having your children taken away unweaned and being drugged with hormones so you'll keep making milk part of the life cycle of a cow.
The trouble with country folk is they've lost touch with nature.
a quick google search
oh great, thanks for the tip
no google 10 years ago!
side note :
I don't support the exploitation of animals. Obviously the extreme is impossible. I used to be pretty radical about it, I've softened in my later years. I'll go watch a film but I won't make one. The distinctions get blurred and irrational. It's a somewhat irrational stance anyway. I obviously don't avoid the use of electrical transformers. I just do what feels right and these days don't get into people's faces aboutit.
but no meat, eggs, dairy, fish, wool, leather, gelatine, milk, honey and stuff like that.
http://www.milksucks.com
I started in the wake of the big African starvations because meat production wastes food & water that people could use. When British pop stars & tv programs were rasiing money for Ethiopia Britain was importing Ethiopian food and that turned my head a bit. The EEC destroys food to stabilise the economy and people go hungry. I dodn't feel it's right so I decided to do something and the first thing you need to change is yourself.
Ten years later here I am still vegan.
I can take the insults and what have you because there's only one way of life and that's your own!
Just how far do you take the vegan thing?
as far as i can without going completely crazy
"Strive to survive causing the least suffering possible"
thankfully it includes my own
i think !?
When I went vegan over 10 years ago I chose to give up my darkroom (paper & film contain gelatine). I've been waiting in earnest for the photographic digital revolution!
Hopefully this will bring down the price of decent digital SLR cameras. All the ones I like the look of are about $1k and I've got too many other things on the list without burning a grand on a camera (+ a decent sized IBM microdrive + lenses etc.etc.)
I wonder if this will bring other benefits like clarity & shutter speeds available.
do I?
that's not what I said
anyway if you'd like to use my name at https://www.billpayment.co.uk/
feel free
also if you want to charge up my nochex account feel free
Some services will only work if you use your own name because that's what it says on your CC/Debit card and wrong name = no service.
At least reading the EULA lets you know what you're in for and with an email address for each service I can see if they break their "we won't give your email address away" promise.
so ner ner
why not let Linux have the fancy graphics
no reason, I use enlightenment after all
a product's goal is to be popular.
I think popularity appears lower down the order, behind useful, stable and correct
loosing out
hehe they are definately losing the ability to run on my p133 laptop. plan9 would do a better job though, if it supported my laptop's chipset (bah!)
QNX & win95 certainly run fast enough on it. The real problem with it is using generic vga drivers for X. I was going to go for the SVGA vncclient but first try failed and I lost the will to carry on.
might be time to put Linux on it (shudder!)
1. I don't use Linux
2. wasting cpu cycles on XMMS is er, a waste
3. I've paid more money to Free software than I ever have to non-free (cept games)
4. IHBT
XMMS consumes up to 10% of my 500mhz p3 with 312 Mb RAM on FreeBSD
mpg123 with no fancy GUI uses 2% tops
Windows has spoiled you my friend, aint no need for that fancy shenanigans unless you really NEED a play button to press, myself I just type xm
I've also got some aliases for volume if I type 50,60,65,70,75,80,85 or 90 they alias to mixer 50:50, mixer 60:60 etc.
slightly OT but who cares, well not me
it's always puzzled me, why does Data have to ask the ship for things?
Why doesn't he have a tricorder built into him?
It's like "we need to make the equipment purposely braindead or else the viewers won't know wtf. is going on.
Same as the coppers in The Bill always telling each other what they are doing. "I'm going to put this in a back to stop anyone's fingerprints getting on it". I mean didn't these coppers ever go to cop school! (or watch TheBill and see what the coppers said to each other, er out of stack space
the default increment is daily
one can roll back the filesystem on a PER PROCESS basis with the yesterday command.
In this way you can narrow down what's broken by for instance using yesterday's c library, or last week's , or last years!
Also take a look at Venti
From: Sean Quinlan To: 9fans Mailing list
For those of you interested in the direction we are heading
with respect to plan 9's file system, you might want to
checkout our paper on Venti that will appear in the
USENIX fast conference.
http://www.cs.bell-labs.com/~seanq/pub.html#venti
Venti is a block level storage server that replaces the optical
juke box for a plan 9 file system. Some of the benefits include:
coalescing of duplicate blocks
compression
no block fragmentation
Also, we have switched from optical to magnetic disks as the storage
technology. I know many of you already use magnetic disks to
"fake" a worm, but for those of us using a optical juke box,
the performance improvement is rather substantial!!
seanq
C> someone who want's to know what they are agreeing to before proceeding
I almost always at least skim through EULA's (and the GPL/LGLP/BSD licences make this easer, read once agree anywhere).
I certainly take the time to read the TOC of the web services I sign up to to see what they are going to do with my info etc.
edit
/etc/hosts file on your LAN's DNS server
/system32/driveres/etc/hosts
or
mirror windows.update or connexion.com or wherever the packages come from
sit back and have endless fun
okay okay so all auto update systems probably suffer from this vulnerability not just MS systems but at least you don't have to go to the trouble of finding out where the victim get's their updates from. Ubiquity & market penetration are the mischief's friend