Yeah OK Java. Exactly what the world needed. I've worked in places that switched to Java for that very reason (Experian). I can't knock it. I even wrote my first suite of image processing software in java for the Boo Radleys video (see web site). I like it.
But when you are in a fully Windows environment it can make sense to stick to IE. Besides I just wanted to do the whole thing in VB script to see what it was like 'cos it's nice to work in all environments so that you can make judgements based on first hand experience rther than rely on the opinions of people that may well have never written a piece of production code in their lives but have read plenty of/. rants:-) .oO0Oo.
I think from the replies I / we've had about this seem to point to one thing.
Browsers seem to be becoming the starting block for RAD tools. Using HTML to lay out forms is much nicer than using a form creator tied to a subset of the available platforms but this approach bites off a lot and takes plenty of time to chew. There are a lot of people to please but 80% of them won't use the super features of COM/Corba for quite some time, if ever. Running executable content from remote sites presents plenty of headaches balancing security with functionality.
MS tipped their hat towards functionality early on and have paid the price with wide security holes in IE and Outlook and goodness knows where. They now have an architecture with fundamental flaws which Win2k doesn't even address. I think they are in a big mess; a personal computer company drowning in the network. They've always been weak with networking which is why Novell beat them into the ground for the LAN and Unix beats them into the ground on the WAN.
Other software companies / projects should take note. Problems come when you try and cram loads of things into a small space. When e-mail was text everything was just fine. I don't remember any security problems with Bluewave! I enjoy having HTML enabled news and mail. I regularly run.exe files sent by friends. I do cross my fingers as I double click though luckily I use a mixed network (Linux & FreeBSD) so I don't have much to lose on my Windows boxen 'cept a couple of hours re-installing. .oO0Oo.
ok you're right it is a dangerous feature when it runs code from an untrusted source. The networks I work on are generally trusted all the way. Using IE I can quickly write complicated apps that do just what the users want in a way they are familiar with which, for me, is good.
Windows is written for a mainly trusted environment. The internet was not writ large at Redmond and they are paying a very heavy price for that now because now they're exposed to the network so is Windows.
M$ could've and should've done the Right Thing instead of the very Wrong Thing and I hope they pay a very large penalty for forcing a losing strategy on users. Well I know they will because I believe the Right Way is the fittest and thus will survive.
Tim's question was "what am I missing?" and I was hoping to fill him in on the wider picture of the IE platform as he says he's not really had the chance to delve right in.
I actually hope upon hope that Mozilla is a truly winning platform. I want my web browser to be just that and I want it to do it very well AND I want it to be Free and standard compliant.
I also appreciate good tools and IE is one of them, politics aside. (hehe a bit rich if you've seen my sig!)
Here in the UK Graham Waddon was prosecuted for running a porn site in the US.
We was prosecuted here because he ftp'd the images from his UK PC so was deemed to have published them in the UK! http://www.theregister.co.uk/990701-000018.html here or google
And the land of the free (tm) has some interesting judgements : http://www.theregister.co.uk/990728-000008.html here or google A supreme court judge in New York may have changed the landscape for Internet companies who base their services in out of the way countries.
Justice Charles Edward Ramos has ruled that an Antiguan gambling site is covered by the laws of New York state simply because the service can be accessed from there.
Let's imagine that the phone rings and it's one of the UK's larget retailers asking "Can you write programs for our intranet, we use IE?"
do you reply : 1. No, we're Linux open Source only. We don't want your money goodbye. 2. We would if you dump all of your Microsoft products and switch to Gnome so we can use CORBA on Linux. 3. Yeah sure, that sounds interesting. Send us the spec and we'll send you a quote.
Try reading in nested or threaded and you'll see that Timothy asked : I know many people like IE, but until they release a version for Linux I can't make all that great a comparison:) Still, from using it on borrowed computers, while IE seems blandly acceptable, I don't remember anything about it which makes me hanker for That Redmond Feeling. What am I missing? And I thought I would share my experience with people.
Well Tim, one of the wonderful things about IE, apart from it works well as an HTML browser is the power you have in it as a program shell in an Intranet environment.
I've written apps for it that are used in one of the UK's largest retailers (Boots). Their intranet is a WAN spread throughout the UK. To distribute that application (ActiveX Controls and all) all we had to do was place it on one web server and e-mail out the URL or just link to it from other places (such as the internal forums). As we find things that need changing or bugs we just change/fix them and put it up on the web server. Nothing to distribute.
IE is more than an HTML renderer and Mozilla et al is never going to get a foot in the door in such an environment.
Would I be correct in assuming you've not done much corporate programming? .oO0Oo.
if i was writing about the state of the world i would have lots more to say
but i wasn't
i was fed up with this guy being so hostile
his other posts are all similar ranting on and abusing people
no matter what the social fabric of a country I can't think of an occasion when I can dismiss a whole country as "gooks" any more then I could dismiss the population of Germany as "squareheads" during WW2. The only reason for demonising people in such a manner is to then subsequently hurt them somehow. One day I might be stuck in a country and spend my nights waiting for the bombs to rain fire on me. By trying to encourage people to be blind to borders we may engender more world peace than splitting people in geographicaly separate species.
i was deliberately trying not to get sidetracked by the cuba ting and the guy's obvious problems.
if it is someone pretending to be somebody else then that's pretty awful 'cos it's a form of stalking i suppose.
but to respond to your post directly : You're right the social conditions for some people in Cuba is a bit grim. The US propaganda machine does make the country look like a consumerist paradise. Security is an attractor for humans and the grass often looks greener in other countries in the world. What I know about Cuba is gleraned from my friend who moved there from the UK two years ago. I'm sure her conditions are somewhat artificial not being indigenous.
Africa is much bigger than diamonds. There has been some truly appaling behaviour as the peolpe left behind struggle to fill the power vacuums left by the European occupiers. This is not the whole story of the continent though. Food and marijuana production to export to Europe also takes wealth away from the indigenous people in favour of the land "owners". One of my saddest moments of clarity was when I learned that during the Ethiopian famine that sparked Live Aid the UK was still importing food from the very country we were sending charity monies to. .oO0Oo.
Although the free in the question is really concerned with software where the binary (without source code) is distributed free of charge to the user. The definitions being confused here are :
Free Software defined by GNU http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html here
``Free software'' is a matter of liberty, not price. To understand the concept, you should think of ``free speech'', not ``free beer.''
``Free software'' refers to the users' freedom to run, copy, distribute, study, change and improve the software. More precisely, it refers to four kinds of freedom, for the users of the software:
Open Source (according to the Open Source definition - http://www.opensource.org/osd.html - here) doesn't just mean access to the source code.
there are anumber of qualifying factors which i wont repeat here .oO0Oo.
you seem to be posting a lot of posts recently and none of the ones I've seen have been a positive contribution to humanity.
If only your url as live I'd be ablt to attempt to ascertain how your negative attitude influences you games.
I'm not sure if you've ever been to Cuba but my experience is that just like anywhere else in the world it is filled with people like you and me trying to get by.
Your narrowmindedness and dismissiveness is a bit of a downer really.
Cheer up mate. The world look a lot better if you got some happiness. .oO0Oo.
OKOK has anyone OCR'd the tif's and coverted the raw text (maybe formatted) to html (or other suitable text format) and included the graphics as PNG's (or other suitable image file format) so I can read the damn patents to see if I can write any software based on the knowledge within them (in a suitable programming language). I am particularly interested in dithering the RGB channels (or other suitable channels) for intertsting visual effect (or some other suitable sense)
1. The ideal is no goo not more goo 2. The standard heatsink was to be replaced with one already made to higher tolerances. 3. If you're going to go all the way why not solder them together. .oO0Oo.
from what i remember of my chemistry lessons SHC - specific heat capacity is how much heat you can "absorb" over time whereas thermal conductivity is how much heat can pass through the medium over time.
A bit like the difference between a buffer (SHC) and a pipe (TC) .oO0Oo.
Is it forgotten that the "extra" intro page is there to help you count page impressions.
A hop through page you don't need to see again is to help estimate the page hit count - people don't go back to the intro so you don't get two counts when the re-navigate you site.
I know there are other techniques for this but I recall that that's where it came from. .oO0Oo.
ok, yes I accept that there is a certain amount of logic to that
I expect the real truth to be a mixture of those two opinions and other factors
The people who have expressed their opinions to me don't vote because they feel there is nothing to choose that supports their beliefs or that they don't support the democratic system as it stands
Slashdot Mirror
Yeah OK Java.
/. rants :-)
.oO0Oo.
Exactly what the world needed.
I've worked in places that switched to Java for that very reason (Experian).
I can't knock it. I even wrote my first suite of image processing software in java for the Boo Radleys video (see web site). I like it.
But when you are in a fully Windows environment it can make sense to stick to IE. Besides I just wanted to do the whole thing in VB script to see what it was like 'cos it's nice to work in all environments so that you can make judgements based on first hand experience rther than rely on the opinions of people that may well have never written a piece of production code in their lives but have read plenty of
thanks for replying Tim.
.exe files sent by friends. I do cross my fingers as I double click though luckily I use a mixed network (Linux & FreeBSD) so I don't have much to lose on my Windows boxen 'cept a couple of hours re-installing.
.oO0Oo.
I think from the replies I / we've had about this seem to point to one thing.
Browsers seem to be becoming the starting block for RAD tools. Using HTML to lay out forms is much nicer than using a form creator tied to a subset of the available platforms but this approach bites off a lot and takes plenty of time to chew. There are a lot of people to please but 80% of them won't use the super features of COM/Corba for quite some time, if ever. Running executable content from remote sites presents plenty of headaches balancing security with functionality.
MS tipped their hat towards functionality early on and have paid the price with wide security holes in IE and Outlook and goodness knows where. They now have an architecture with fundamental flaws which Win2k doesn't even address. I think they are in a big mess; a personal computer company drowning in the network. They've always been weak with networking which is why Novell beat them into the ground for the LAN and Unix beats them into the ground on the WAN.
Other software companies / projects should take note. Problems come when you try and cram loads of things into a small space. When e-mail was text everything was just fine. I don't remember any security problems with Bluewave! I enjoy having HTML enabled news and mail. I regularly run
ok you're right it is a dangerous feature when it runs code from an untrusted source. The networks I work on are generally trusted all the way. Using IE I can quickly write complicated apps that do just what the users want in a way they are familiar with which, for me, is good.
.oO0Oo.
Windows is written for a mainly trusted environment. The internet was not writ large at Redmond and they are paying a very heavy price for that now because now they're exposed to the network so is Windows.
M$ could've and should've done the Right Thing instead of the very Wrong Thing and I hope they pay a very large penalty for forcing a losing strategy on users. Well I know they will because I believe the Right Way is the fittest and thus will survive.
Tim's question was "what am I missing?" and I was hoping to fill him in on the wider picture of the IE platform as he says he's not really had the chance to delve right in.
I actually hope upon hope that Mozilla is a truly winning platform. I want my web browser to be just that and I want it to do it very well AND I want it to be Free and standard compliant.
I also appreciate good tools and IE is one of them, politics aside. (hehe a bit rich if you've seen my sig!)
Here in the UK Graham Waddon was prosecuted for running a porn site in the US.
.oO0Oo.
We was prosecuted here because he ftp'd the images from his UK PC so was deemed to have published them in the UK!
http://www.theregister.co.uk/990701-000018.html
here or google
And the land of the free (tm) has some interesting judgements :
http://www.theregister.co.uk/990728-000008.html
here or google
A supreme court judge in New York may have changed the landscape for Internet companies who base their services in out of the way countries.
Justice Charles Edward Ramos has ruled that an Antiguan gambling site is covered by the laws of New York state simply because the service can be accessed from there.
Well, I've read my own words and I can't see anything to make me exclaim "My god!"
.oO0Oo.
How do my words diss Netscape and Mozilla?
Tim was asking what IE did that he wouldn't know about being a Linux weenie and all.
oh btw what they are supposed to do: browse the web.
so why do they have IRC, EMAIL, Skins, news, and loads of other bloat in them?
Next time you read oneof my posts please try and see the point
I'm not an exclusively Microsoft guy
.oO0Oo.
Let's imagine that the phone rings and it's one of the UK's larget retailers asking "Can you write programs for our intranet, we use IE?"
do you reply :
1. No, we're Linux open Source only. We don't want your money goodbye.
2. We would if you dump all of your Microsoft products and switch to Gnome so we can use CORBA on Linux.
3. Yeah sure, that sounds interesting. Send us the spec and we'll send you a quote.
Try reading in nested or threaded and you'll see that Timothy asked :
I know many people like IE, but until they release a version for Linux I can't make all that great a comparison:) Still, from using it on borrowed computers, while IE seems blandly acceptable, I don't remember anything about it which makes me hanker for That Redmond Feeling. What am I missing?
And I thought I would share my experience with people.
Chill out mate
Well Tim, one of the wonderful things about IE, apart from it works well as an HTML browser is the power you have in it as a program shell in an Intranet environment.
.oO0Oo.
I've written apps for it that are used in one of the UK's largest retailers (Boots). Their intranet is a WAN spread throughout the UK. To distribute that application (ActiveX Controls and all) all we had to do was place it on one web server and e-mail out the URL or just link to it from other places (such as the internal forums). As we find things that need changing or bugs we just change/fix them and put it up on the web server. Nothing to distribute.
IE is more than an HTML renderer and Mozilla et al is never going to get a foot in the door in such an environment.
Would I be correct in assuming you've not done much corporate programming?
if i was writing about the state of the world i would have lots more to say
.oO0Oo.
but i wasn't
i was fed up with this guy being so hostile
his other posts are all similar ranting on and abusing people
no matter what the social fabric of a country I can't think of an occasion when I can dismiss a whole country as "gooks" any more then I could dismiss the population of Germany as "squareheads" during WW2. The only reason for demonising people in such a manner is to then subsequently hurt them somehow. One day I might be stuck in a country and spend my nights waiting for the bombs to rain fire on me. By trying to encourage people to be blind to borders we may engender more world peace than splitting people in geographicaly separate species.
i was deliberately trying not to get sidetracked by the cuba ting and the guy's obvious problems.
if it is someone pretending to be somebody else then that's pretty awful 'cos it's a form of stalking i suppose.
but to respond to your post directly :
You're right the social conditions for some people in Cuba is a bit grim. The US propaganda machine does make the country look like a consumerist paradise. Security is an attractor for humans and the grass often looks greener in other countries in the world. What I know about Cuba is gleraned from my friend who moved there from the UK two years ago. I'm sure her conditions are somewhat artificial not being indigenous.
Africa is much bigger than diamonds. There has been some truly appaling behaviour as the peolpe left behind struggle to fill the power vacuums left by the European occupiers. This is not the whole story of the continent though. Food and marijuana production to export to Europe also takes wealth away from the indigenous people in favour of the land "owners". One of my saddest moments of clarity was when I learned that during the Ethiopian famine that sparked Live Aid the UK was still importing food from the very country we were sending charity monies to.
er but they do give access to the ftp server so you can download it without cost ('cept for your call charges)
.oO0Oo.
Although the free in the question is really concerned with software where the binary (without source code) is distributed free of charge to the user. The definitions being confused here are :
.oO0Oo.
Free Software defined by GNU
http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html
here
``Free software'' is a matter of liberty, not price. To understand the concept, you should think of ``free speech'', not ``free beer.''
``Free software'' refers to the users' freedom to run, copy, distribute, study, change and improve the software. More precisely, it refers to four kinds of freedom, for the users of the software:
Open Source (according to the Open Source definition - http://www.opensource.org/osd.html - here)
doesn't just mean access to the source code.
there are anumber of qualifying factors which i wont repeat here
i quite like them and the super portability of animated gifs makes them an atractive format
.oO0Oo.
with the bounding box nature of them they are quite compact too.
Lame homepages will always be lame but good homepages use the available technologies to enhance the experience, animated gif's being part of that.
Flash is good but proprietry and requires plugins.
Animated gifs display in image browsers.
We need unencumbered and supported animated file formats just as we need unecumbered static formats.
The work being done on SVG looks good as it supports vector graphics with animation and createable with xml, can't get much more portable than that!
http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/Overview.htm8
or here
Steve,
.oO0Oo.
you seem to be posting a lot of posts recently and none of the ones I've seen have been a positive contribution to humanity.
If only your url as live I'd be ablt to attempt to ascertain how your negative attitude influences you games.
I'm not sure if you've ever been to Cuba but my experience is that just like anywhere else in the world it is filled with people like you and me trying to get by.
Your narrowmindedness and dismissiveness is a bit of a downer really.
Cheer up mate. The world look a lot better if you got some happiness.
it came from the license change the other day that said programs could be distributed in binary form only.
.oO0Oo.
Of course this clause was a bit ambiguous and people got into their usual lather about it.
you could try using the task scheduler and batch files
.oO0Oo.
you could even write a VB exe to take care of it
ok, i'll forward your comments to my mom-in-law
.oO0Oo.
I'm sure she'll learn a very valuable lesson
meanwhile I'm sure she'd prefer to use the same client at home that she uses at work
*sigh*
.oO0Oo.
i wish i'd never started this now
I know all that
OKOK has anyone OCR'd the tif's and coverted the raw text (maybe formatted) to html (or other suitable text format) and included the graphics as PNG's (or other suitable image file format) so I can read the damn patents to see if I can write any software based on the knowledge within them (in a suitable programming language). I am particularly interested in dithering the RGB channels (or other suitable channels) for intertsting visual effect (or some other suitable sense)
will this do?
I can't believe this was modded up!
.oO0Oo.
Moderators - try reading the story too
1. The ideal is no goo not more goo
2. The standard heatsink was to be replaced with one already made to higher tolerances.
3. If you're going to go all the way why not solder them together.
hmmm,
.oO0Oo.
i think you need to put your ehad in the freezer for a while.
what's an erronious error?
an error made in error
it's make my exceptrion handler freak that's for sure
try:
hello:
!"$!$!$!"£$%"
except:
goto hello
from what i remember of my chemistry lessons SHC - specific heat capacity is how much heat you can "absorb" over time whereas thermal conductivity is how much heat can pass through the medium over time.
.oO0Oo.
A bit like the difference between a buffer (SHC) and a pipe (TC)
Is it forgotten that the "extra" intro page is there to help you count page impressions.
.oO0Oo.
A hop through page you don't need to see again is to help estimate the page hit count - people don't go back to the intro so you don't get two counts when the re-navigate you site.
I know there are other techniques for this but I recall that that's where it came from.
Windows isn't even 32 bit ready yet and they've been at it for going on ten years
.oO0Oo.
do you think 64 bit will be any different
you left the Office and all the Windows are wide open
.oO0Oo.
could you come back and close them please
all of our work is blowing outside
help us.......
as a client side plug in is a VERY good idea
.oO0Oo.
Open the Source mr rinkworks
ok, yes I accept that there is a certain amount of logic to that
.oO0Oo.
I expect the real truth to be a mixture of those two opinions and other factors
The people who have expressed their opinions to me don't vote because they feel there is nothing to choose that supports their beliefs or that they don't support the democratic system as it stands
the abstract was far more informative and nerdish than the magazine style of the linked story
.oO0Oo.
lower those common denominators
coming soon :
!!London Bus found on the Moon!!
!!new Yeti! pictures!!!!
**win win win**