That's what I forgot in my other response to your question: I'm a freelancer developer and (still, but not very long anymore) a student. I can bring and take my work with me wherever I go to. My laptop is about 1.2 kg, so I don't have to carry a big bulky heavy bag with me, yet still I have 12 gigs of harddisk space and it's fast enough, too. You can see the obvious advantages having a Linux laptop means for me.
I am using Linux on laptops since more than four years now. I don't have a car, but I travel a lot by bus, subway and train. With the help of my laptop, I can do all my development, writing etc. "on the run".
Very often, I have to demo my work at a customer's office. I can just open my laptop and show them a complete, working web site, using my laptop as a web server, running Netscape on X. Or I connect it to their network and they surf the site using their own browser.
Once, when I had to reconfigure a web server, I just connected my laptop in its place with a "sorry, we're down, please come back in 15 minutes" message...:-)
Werner Heuser, the author of the Linux Laptop Howto and several other helpful Lapop-related documents about Linux, runs a little business in Germany for Linux-Laptops. You can have a look at www.xtops.de if you're interested.
(I'm not affiliated with Werner, I just contributed parts of the Howto and wrote the old Battery Powered Linux Howto that he took over and rewrote.)
Any procedural programming language is easy to learn if you have grasped the basic skills of programming. Those who started with Java should have no problem turning to C.
Of course, it is easier to write and debug applications in newer, "lazier" languages such as Java, Perl, Python. But that wasn't my point.
Obviously, you have never written a program for a PDA.
You forget about the combined memory requirements of the Linux kernel, the C-library, the C++-library, the X server, the GTK libraries etc. Now take your favourite existing Linux app (how about Mozilla?), type make and try to put it in the little memory that's left. There's no swap space, no hard disk, just a bit of RAM.
You'll have to do some serious work on all these components, taking out unneeded stuff, to save space.
The PalmOS as an example runs on 512 Kilobytes ROM and 256 Kilobytes of RAM (used for stack and user data). Try to do that with Linux and an X-less GTK+. It is possible, sure, but you can't claim that it will work "out of the box".
That's why a PDA-centric API offers less functionality than a desktop-centric API, to begin with.
I don't figure it would be too terribly difficult to get 128 megs in there relatively economically.
I am not an expert either, but AFAIK...
Fast (= RAM) memory is a major drain on battery power, so I doubt that huge amounts of memory will be the norm in a PDA setting. The memory used on flash cards is very slow, but also uses very little power. You have to find a compromise.
The advantages of Linux stated in the front article are void when it comes to PDAs.
It's not the kernel that's important, it's the API. Because of this, it doesn't matter that there are lots and lots of programming languages available for Linux/Unix systems. It is simply not the issue for a PDA, if you haven't got a PDA-centric API to start with.
You cannot simply take the current standard APIs for desktop Linux application development (and there are several) and put them on a PDA. You need handwriting recogniation or some similar data input method, you need graphics output, you need a flash-memory file system. All this in a device that has little memory to start with.
Once you have all this, your version of Linux is so product-specific and different from what you know from your desktop that it might be worth considering to use one of the existing PDA-centric environment such as PalmOS or CE.
The PalmOS API is pretty damn neat -- for its specific purpose. You get all the APIs and a full-fledged developers kit (based on the Gnu C compiler and other Gnu tools) for free. C as a language is damn easy to learn and is probably the one language almost every programmer knows. Other than that, there are several alternative (commercial) development kits out there for people who want to avoid C. (Yes, I tried the PalmOS API. I cannot comment on CE, though.)
There are several PDA-environments based on Linux out there, but none of them are actually ready for prime time and all of them require significant rewrites of your existing source. I do hope that one of them will, I was very impressed by the PDA-version of Qt. But again: you cannot use the current advantages of Desktop Linux as arguments for a PDA Linux.
To have a laugh, rent the first episode of "The Next Generation" series. There is a man wearing a classic miniskirt costume walking along in the engine room briefly. It's hilarious.
Throttlebox has some nice classics (La planète sauvage, as an example), but they use a proprietary file format that can only be watched with Windows. Nonetheless, interesting selection.
Talking about the Napster revolution is a moot issue.
There has not been a chart hit so far that came purely from MP3, without the help of the industry.
Give me just one counter example. Where are all those indepentend artists making a buck off MP3 music?
When I'm on Napster, people keep downloading the mass market music from my hard disk. I've stopped offering it now and only offer my own group's music. Guess what - nobody cares about it.
Oh, and while you're at it, buy my group's album. Thank you.:-)
There is a similar rating system in Germany, so you Americans might want to turn over here and see about our experiences with it. Games like Doom, Quake, Wolfenstein are rated "18+" and cannot be advertised or sold to minors.
i-d software knows about this and makes some sick fun of it. When Quake came on the shelves, they made advertisements about it months in advance, featuring "happy family" scenarios of a cute family all playing Quake on their computer, a typical 60's advertisement idyll, all smiling, all wearing sweatshirts with the Quake logo. Of course they knew that Quake would be labeled 18+, but they also knew that the rating would come only a few weeks before the actual launch. And until then, they made this faux ad campaign.
Anyway, I doubt that the German rating system has worked. Nonetheless, it exists and it might be helpful to look at it to compare.
I'm starting to get tired of the constant MS-SUN feud. If only one of them would actually deliver superiour products, but instead they both concentrate on bickering about each other.
My friends know me for my love of unnecessairy technology gadgets, so I certainly am techno-phil. It's my private hobby and I enjoy it.
But seriously, in your case, it sounds to me as if you are trying to set up all this stuff just because it's cool, not because it is actually needed. Does this really give a benefit to your patients? How soon will this stuff be outdated?
You should seriously reconsider how far you want to go with techno-gadgetry. You might end up working too much on keeping your network working and not having time to work with your patients...
Thanks. This/is/ the bki810 computer I wrote about, but I had the earlier version.
As I wrote earlier, it was far too loud. Also, its TV out wasn't quite good (not centered on the screen, not full screen) and its digital audio output was not accessible on the case, you'd have to drill a hole and get your own cable to use it.
But of course, I don't know if a) my particular system was just an exception and if b) the new version of the product has been improved.
I've been hunting high and low for a decent, small box-sized PC-compatible computer for about a year now. Trouble is, here in Germany it is close to impossible to get one unless you are willing to pay about 3 to 4 times the price of a normal computer with similar components.
- I first tried to build the box with a normal desktop case, but not only was it ugly, it was also quite loud. My dream machine is a PC-compatible system that looks like a stereo component and that is silent.
- vanilla, plain set top box hardware is hard to get in Germany if all you want is a quantity of "one".
- those few set top boxes being sold are proprietary and come with long-term contracts, so hacking them is not an option. We did not have an "iOpener" happening here, yet.
- there are very few "small" computers on sale over here. Those you can get usually are "thin clients" like the Dell Onmiplex or the Compaq Desktop iPaq that are not equipped with a TV out.
- Looking at its specs, the Multitainer is my dream machine, but it appears to have been a massive failure. I tested it at my local electronics store and it had a lot of stability problems. Also, it is curious that I cannot get a *new* machine anywhere in Hamburg (one of the major German cities). The few stores that want to sell the Multitainer all have "returned" devices from unsatisfied customers - still for a price tag of 1000 to 1250 dollars.
- I once had a hold on a bki810 computer. It was really nice, except that a) it was not upgradable with more recent CPUs and b) its TV out was sub-par. But my main problem: It was LOUD! It had the noise level of a vacuum cleaner! I tried to replace the fans, but no chance: Local electronics stores did not offer silent fans for that size...
- I've phoned down the local listing of office suppliers for small computers, but none could help me.
- I've also checked the very popular electronics classifieds, the local German eBay-style sites etc. Noone seems to sell used hardware.
After all these attempts, my summary of the problems with "build your own set-top box" is:
* Normal PC hardware is too loud. And surprisingly, some thin clients are, too.
* Few thin clients have a TV out or can be equipped with one.
* Those few thin clients that have a TV out offer a lousy picture quality, usually off-centered or not full-screen on a PAL TV. Yes, I've tried several TV out cards and none of them could come near my very cheap DVD player's TV out. Is it really that difficult?
All in all, I just wish the Multitainer would have been better. It's everything you'd need: Standard PC hardware components and a clever combination of stereo and video connectors. But apparently, it had engineering problems.
My favourite part (the caller asked about the set of applications that come with LinuxOne):
04:18 - LinuxOne: "Ummmm...There's a terminal emulator, a RPM manager called KPackage."
04:25 - Accipiter: "What is RPM?"
04:26 - LinuxOne: "RPM is uh, the program language that you program uh, within Linux."
04:33 - Accipiter: "Oh, so you can actually make programs with RPM?"
04:35 - LinuxOne: "Yes, it's a C++ programming, uh, programming tool."
04:38 - Accipiter: "Oh! Very cool..."
04:40 - LinuxOne: "Uhhmmm... A --"
04:42 - Accipiter: "Does that include a compiler so if I want to...if I write my - if I write my program in RPM, I can compile it with RPM too?"
04:49 - LinuxOne: "Yes."
04:49 - Accipiter: "Oh, Great!"
I agree. Those are some really strange answers and I stopped reading the interview halfway through. I hope to read Andre's other responses once he woke up and wrote a second set of answers.
One of my machines uses a simple ISA Soundblaster 16 and it sounds just fine, I have it connected to my living room stereo.
Don't know about the AudioPCI though, but a friend of mine has it and never complained.
So really, your case sounds mysterious to me. As I said before, there's nothing in Linux itself that leads to bad audio quality. It's alway the application and the soundcard, but the operating system should not affect it...
I don't know about the US, but here in Germany, you'll have to pay royalties at Gema for that.
It isn't a lot of money, but still, it's money for something that a company does not really need to do, so most companies here don't play "real" albums on the phone while you are waiting.
This is the main reason why (here in Germany) most "on hold" music is royalty-free. There are special music royalty-free collections for this purpose. Usually, these are short melodies and most of them suck.
A friend of mine has composed a few more interesting royalty-free tracks for this purpose. These are often instrumental tunes or even songs made for one particular company, sometimes featuring the company's name. Still, they will also go on your nerves after a short time...:-)
(I want it back desperately, especially because of some of my thesis files left on the harddisk when the laptop was stolen from a hotel room... sniff.)
However, its sound quality is poor with a lot of background noise from the mainboard circuitry and the harddisk. It features a not-quite-standard 2.5 mm headphone jack that requires using a bulky adapter (I always feared that I might rip the audio jack apart if I touched that adapter while plugged in). Battery time was 60 minutes, rarely more.
I haven't compared more recent models of the Libretto, but I doubt that audio quality was the engineers' main concern.
So yes, there's a good reason to build a dedicated MP3 player with a harddisk to overcome these problems.
I've got a machine that plays MP3s fine under Windows 95, but under Linux the exact same MP3s sound scratchy and staticy.
Two possible reasons:
- Your MP3s have defects (I have a couple, too, because I got them through a German TV-channel offline distribution system, don't ask) and your Linux MP3 player cannot cope with them, while your Windows player can do some error-correction (WinAmp is known to accept MP3 files with defects).
If you think that this is the cause, try different mp3 players. But more likey, I assume that
- Your particular soundcard is not supported as well in Linux as it is in Windows.
Unless you mention the name and version of your soundcard, your anecdotical evidence is just that: anecdotical. Here's my anecdote: I have half a dozen of computers running with all kinds of hardware inside, each having a different soundcard. One of them is not supported at all under Linux, another (an old Ensoniq Soundscape) shows the symptons you describe, all others sound exactly as good or bad as they do with Windows. At least to my ears.
From a technical standpoint, a MP3 file will sound the same on the same soundcard, there is nothing that Linux per se does "wrong" with MP3 and nothing that Windows does "better".
I do this kind of thing on an outdated laptop with a 233 MHz Pentium, and I'm fine. Mozilla could be faster, though.
In other words, *any* modern laptop will serve your needs. Just make sure that you have lots of RAM, that's the major speed factor. My machine has 160 MB and it shows.
I didn't try to say that German service was any better, sorry. I know that it stinks...
The point of that article back then was: The service in America is just as lousy as in Europe. While in the USA, people ask "how may I help you" and don't, in Europe they say "I cannot / don't want to help you" and don't.
Slashdot Mirror
That's what I forgot in my other response to your question: I'm a freelancer developer and (still, but not very long anymore) a student. I can bring and take my work with me wherever I go to. My laptop is about 1.2 kg, so I don't have to carry a big bulky heavy bag with me, yet still I have 12 gigs of harddisk space and it's fast enough, too. You can see the obvious advantages having a Linux laptop means for me.
------------------
Useful for me. You bet. Four years and counting.
:-)
I am using Linux on laptops since more than four years now. I don't have a car, but I travel a lot by bus, subway and train. With the help of my laptop, I can do all my development, writing etc. "on the run".
Very often, I have to demo my work at a customer's office. I can just open my laptop and show them a complete, working web site, using my laptop as a web server, running Netscape on X. Or I connect it to their network and they surf the site using their own browser.
Once, when I had to reconfigure a web server, I just connected my laptop in its place with a "sorry, we're down, please come back in 15 minutes" message...
------------------
There are others, too.
Werner Heuser, the author of the Linux Laptop Howto and several other helpful Lapop-related documents about Linux, runs a little business in Germany for Linux-Laptops. You can have a look at www.xtops.de if you're interested.
(I'm not affiliated with Werner, I just contributed parts of the Howto and wrote the old Battery Powered Linux Howto that he took over and rewrote.)
------------------
I found this article on Salon.com the best explanation so far.
------------------
C is easy to learn, but hard to debug, true.
Any procedural programming language is easy to learn if you have grasped the basic skills of programming. Those who started with Java should have no problem turning to C.
Of course, it is easier to write and debug applications in newer, "lazier" languages such as Java, Perl, Python. But that wasn't my point.
------------------
I think 160x120. Correct me if I'm wrong
:-)
160x160. You asked for it.
------------------
Obviously, you have never written a program for a PDA.
You forget about the combined memory requirements of the Linux kernel, the C-library, the C++-library, the X server, the GTK libraries etc. Now take your favourite existing Linux app (how about Mozilla?), type make and try to put it in the little memory that's left. There's no swap space, no hard disk, just a bit of RAM.
You'll have to do some serious work on all these components, taking out unneeded stuff, to save space.
The PalmOS as an example runs on 512 Kilobytes ROM and 256 Kilobytes of RAM (used for stack and user data). Try to do that with Linux and an X-less GTK+. It is possible, sure, but you can't claim that it will work "out of the box".
That's why a PDA-centric API offers less functionality than a desktop-centric API, to begin with.
------------------
I don't figure it would be too terribly difficult to get 128 megs in there relatively economically.
I am not an expert either, but AFAIK...
Fast (= RAM) memory is a major drain on battery power, so I doubt that huge amounts of memory will be the norm in a PDA setting. The memory used on flash cards is very slow, but also uses very little power. You have to find a compromise.
------------------
The advantages of Linux stated in the front article are void when it comes to PDAs.
It's not the kernel that's important, it's the API. Because of this, it doesn't matter that there are lots and lots of programming languages available for Linux/Unix systems. It is simply not the issue for a PDA, if you haven't got a PDA-centric API to start with.
You cannot simply take the current standard APIs for desktop Linux application development (and there are several) and put them on a PDA. You need handwriting recogniation or some similar data input method, you need graphics output, you need a flash-memory file system. All this in a device that has little memory to start with.
Once you have all this, your version of Linux is so product-specific and different from what you know from your desktop that it might be worth considering to use one of the existing PDA-centric environment such as PalmOS or CE.
The PalmOS API is pretty damn neat -- for its specific purpose. You get all the APIs and a full-fledged developers kit (based on the Gnu C compiler and other Gnu tools) for free. C as a language is damn easy to learn and is probably the one language almost every programmer knows. Other than that, there are several alternative (commercial) development kits out there for people who want to avoid C. (Yes, I tried the PalmOS API. I cannot comment on CE, though.)
There are several PDA-environments based on Linux out there, but none of them are actually ready for prime time and all of them require significant rewrites of your existing source. I do hope that one of them will, I was very impressed by the PDA-version of Qt. But again: you cannot use the current advantages of Desktop Linux as arguments for a PDA Linux.
------------------
To have a laugh, rent the first episode of "The Next Generation" series. There is a man wearing a classic miniskirt costume walking along in the engine room briefly. It's hilarious.
------------------
Throttlebox has some nice classics (La planète sauvage, as an example), but they use a proprietary file format that can only be watched with Windows. Nonetheless, interesting selection.
------------------
Talking about the Napster revolution is a moot issue.
:-)
There has not been a chart hit so far that came purely from MP3, without the help of the industry.
Give me just one counter example. Where are all those indepentend artists making a buck off MP3 music?
When I'm on Napster, people keep downloading the mass market music from my hard disk. I've stopped offering it now and only offer my own group's music. Guess what - nobody cares about it.
Oh, and while you're at it, buy my group's album. Thank you.
------------------
There is a similar rating system in Germany, so you Americans might want to turn over here and see about our experiences with it. Games like Doom, Quake, Wolfenstein are rated "18+" and cannot be advertised or sold to minors.
i-d software knows about this and makes some sick fun of it. When Quake came on the shelves, they made advertisements about it months in advance, featuring "happy family" scenarios of a cute family all playing Quake on their computer, a typical 60's advertisement idyll, all smiling, all wearing sweatshirts with the Quake logo. Of course they knew that Quake would be labeled 18+, but they also knew that the rating would come only a few weeks before the actual launch. And until then, they made this faux ad campaign.
Anyway, I doubt that the German rating system has worked. Nonetheless, it exists and it might be helpful to look at it to compare.
------------------
I'm starting to get tired of the constant MS-SUN feud. If only one of them would actually deliver superiour products, but instead they both concentrate on bickering about each other.
------------------
My friends know me for my love of unnecessairy technology gadgets, so I certainly am techno-phil. It's my private hobby and I enjoy it.
But seriously, in your case, it sounds to me as if you are trying to set up all this stuff just because it's cool, not because it is actually needed. Does this really give a benefit to your patients? How soon will this stuff be outdated?
You should seriously reconsider how far you want to go with techno-gadgetry. You might end up working too much on keeping your network working and not having time to work with your patients...
------------------
Thanks. This /is/ the bki810 computer I wrote about, but I had the earlier version.
As I wrote earlier, it was far too loud. Also, its TV out wasn't quite good (not centered on the screen, not full screen) and its digital audio output was not accessible on the case, you'd have to drill a hole and get your own cable to use it.
But of course, I don't know if a) my particular system was just an exception and if b) the new version of the product has been improved.
------------------
Hi,
I've been hunting high and low for a decent, small box-sized PC-compatible computer for about a year now. Trouble is, here in Germany it is close to impossible to get one unless you are willing to pay about 3 to 4 times the price of a normal computer with similar components.
- I first tried to build the box with a normal desktop case, but not only was it ugly, it was also quite loud. My dream machine is a PC-compatible system that looks like a stereo component and that is silent.
- vanilla, plain set top box hardware is hard to get in Germany if all you want is a quantity of "one".
- those few set top boxes being sold are proprietary and come with long-term contracts, so hacking them is not an option. We did not have an "iOpener" happening here, yet.
- there are very few "small" computers on sale over here. Those you can get usually are "thin clients" like the Dell Onmiplex or the Compaq Desktop iPaq that are not equipped with a TV out.
- Looking at its specs, the Multitainer is my dream machine, but it appears to have been a massive failure. I tested it at my local electronics store and it had a lot of stability problems. Also, it is curious that I cannot get a *new* machine anywhere in Hamburg (one of the major German cities). The few stores that want to sell the Multitainer all have "returned" devices from unsatisfied customers - still for a price tag of 1000 to 1250 dollars.
- I once had a hold on a bki810 computer. It was really nice, except that a) it was not upgradable with more recent CPUs and b) its TV out was sub-par. But my main problem: It was LOUD! It had the noise level of a vacuum cleaner! I tried to replace the fans, but no chance: Local electronics stores did not offer silent fans for that size...
- I've phoned down the local listing of office suppliers for small computers, but none could help me.
- I've also checked the very popular electronics classifieds, the local German eBay-style sites etc. Noone seems to sell used hardware.
After all these attempts, my summary of the problems with "build your own set-top box" is:
* Normal PC hardware is too loud. And surprisingly, some thin clients are, too.
* Few thin clients have a TV out or can be equipped with one.
* Those few thin clients that have a TV out offer a lousy picture quality, usually off-centered or not full-screen on a PAL TV. Yes, I've tried several TV out cards and none of them could come near my very cheap DVD player's TV out. Is it really that difficult?
All in all, I just wish the Multitainer would have been better. It's everything you'd need: Standard PC hardware components and a clever combination of stereo and video connectors. But apparently, it had engineering problems.
------------------
This phone transcript is a hoot! Go checkt it out!
My favourite part (the caller asked about the set of applications that come with LinuxOne):
04:18 - LinuxOne: "Ummmm...There's a terminal emulator, a RPM manager called KPackage."
04:25 - Accipiter: "What is RPM?"
04:26 - LinuxOne: "RPM is uh, the program language that you program uh, within Linux."
04:33 - Accipiter: "Oh, so you can actually make programs with RPM?"
04:35 - LinuxOne: "Yes, it's a C++ programming, uh, programming tool."
04:38 - Accipiter: "Oh! Very cool..."
04:40 - LinuxOne: "Uhhmmm... A --"
04:42 - Accipiter: "Does that include a compiler so if I want to...if I write my - if I write my program in RPM, I can compile it with RPM too?"
04:49 - LinuxOne: "Yes."
04:49 - Accipiter: "Oh, Great!"
------------------
I agree. Those are some really strange answers and I stopped reading the interview halfway through. I hope to read Andre's other responses once he woke up and wrote a second set of answers.
------------------
Hmm.
One of my machines uses a simple ISA Soundblaster 16 and it sounds just fine, I have it connected to my living room stereo.
Don't know about the AudioPCI though, but a friend of mine has it and never complained.
So really, your case sounds mysterious to me. As I said before, there's nothing in Linux itself that leads to bad audio quality. It's alway the application and the soundcard, but the operating system should not affect it...
------------------
I don't know about the US, but here in Germany, you'll have to pay royalties at Gema for that.
:-)
It isn't a lot of money, but still, it's money for something that a company does not really need to do, so most companies here don't play "real" albums on the phone while you are waiting.
This is the main reason why (here in Germany) most "on hold" music is royalty-free. There are special music royalty-free collections for this purpose. Usually, these are short melodies and most of them suck.
A friend of mine has composed a few more interesting royalty-free tracks for this purpose. These are often instrumental tunes or even songs made for one particular company, sometimes featuring the company's name. Still, they will also go on your nerves after a short time...
------------------
I used to own a Libretto 50ct. A great product.
(I want it back desperately, especially because of some of my thesis files left on the harddisk when the laptop was stolen from a hotel room... sniff.)
However, its sound quality is poor with a lot of background noise from the mainboard circuitry and the harddisk. It features a not-quite-standard 2.5 mm headphone jack that requires using a bulky adapter (I always feared that I might rip the audio jack apart if I touched that adapter while plugged in). Battery time was 60 minutes, rarely more.
I haven't compared more recent models of the Libretto, but I doubt that audio quality was the engineers' main concern.
So yes, there's a good reason to build a dedicated MP3 player with a harddisk to overcome these problems.
------------------
I've got a machine that plays MP3s fine under Windows 95, but under Linux the exact same MP3s sound scratchy and staticy.
Two possible reasons:
- Your MP3s have defects (I have a couple, too, because I got them through a German TV-channel offline distribution system, don't ask) and your Linux MP3 player cannot cope with them, while your Windows player can do some error-correction (WinAmp is known to accept MP3 files with defects).
If you think that this is the cause, try different mp3 players. But more likey, I assume that
- Your particular soundcard is not supported as well in Linux as it is in Windows.
Unless you mention the name and version of your soundcard, your anecdotical evidence is just that: anecdotical. Here's my anecdote: I have half a dozen of computers running with all kinds of hardware inside, each having a different soundcard. One of them is not supported at all under Linux, another (an old Ensoniq Soundscape) shows the symptons you describe, all others sound exactly as good or bad as they do with Windows. At least to my ears.
From a technical standpoint, a MP3 file will sound the same on the same soundcard, there is nothing that Linux per se does "wrong" with MP3 and nothing that Windows does "better".
------------------
I do this kind of thing on an outdated laptop with a 233 MHz Pentium, and I'm fine. Mozilla could be faster, though. In other words, *any* modern laptop will serve your needs. Just make sure that you have lots of RAM, that's the major speed factor. My machine has 160 MB and it shows.
------------------
I didn't try to say that German service was any better, sorry. I know that it stinks...
The point of that article back then was: The service in America is just as lousy as in Europe. While in the USA, people ask "how may I help you" and don't, in Europe they say "I cannot / don't want to help you" and don't.
------------------