Comparing a car killing or maiming you to a BAD LICENSE ON A FUCKING GAME is exactly what the problem is.
Show me where I said no one should have any consumer rights on anything. I didn't even say you SHOULDN'T have rights on a game--just that you currently don't, and the way to fix it is not to whine about it. Withhold your money, put Valve out of business, work to get legislation passed, whatever. Go to it.
Since I have a good, mostly reliable internet connection, and I enjoy the game, I couldn't care less. In the end, if they change it and I don't like it, chances are really good that'll come after I've played through the single user game anyway, I will have gotten my $50 out of the game, and I won't have too much heartburn about moving on to something else. As I've said elsewhere, nowhere does the EULA guarantee perpetual access under your terms. Don't like it, don't buy it.
It's hardly reasonable to expect that you can buy the software and then change the EULA retroactively by whining on websites and pirating the software. Obviously you don't like EULA's. So research them before you spend your money, and use your money to encourage those EULA's that are reasonable. If you think that's insufficient because you are so much smarter than the unwashed masses, try to get legislation passed to protect the sheep from themselves. But that still doesn't justify an expectation that you're going to retroactively change a company's business practices with whining and piracy.
The EULA says "we can change the terms at our whim". Don't like it? Don't buy it. If enough people agree with you, Valve will pay the price and learn or die. It's called "capitalism".
If you didn't know that, you're an idiot who wasn't paying attention for the last 2 or 3 years, as Steam has been "required" for all of Valve's games for a while now...
I won't buy it until there's a non-steam version of singleplayer, or a reliable crack.
The first part of your sentence is fully within your rights. The second part is not. If you don't like Steam, nobody is making you buy the game. Give up whining that you are justified to pirate the game because you don't like the terms it's sold under.
I can't imagine anything stopping you from saying "that's unacceptable" and putting it back on he shelf right then. Or walking from having paid at the register with the unopened box over to the service desk and demanding your money back then and there so it was clear you weren't pirating anything.
If your desire for the game overrides your common sense about not doing things that are (in your opinion) bad for your rights, what the fuck do you want me to do about it? Nobody owes you "the game" on your terms.
So no consequences for a company with a shitty EULA? No reason to complain? No reason to tell Valve they shouldn't do business like that?
Which part of "if people don't like it, they won't buy it, and the company goes out of business" don't you understand? Seems like a great way to get the message across.
What I don't get is what "customer rights" they're talking about.
Let's go back to "TFA". You buy HL1 and play it. No Steam required to play the single user game, which is what is being sold in the box. No Steam required to play the online game, which you get along with it. Eventually, after many years, Valve says "we are upgrading to a new platform, Steam, with a new EULA, and by the way we're phasing out the old online servers that let you find other games to connect to." Nowhere in the original EULA did it say the WON servers would be available forever. Not accepting the Steam EULA means not being able to use the new servers to find online games, but nothing stops you from agreeing on servers to play on with your friends, and connecting to and playing on those servers. Nothing stops you from playing the single-user version of the game to your heart's content.
WHAT RIGHTS HAVE BEEN VIOLATED?
Obviously to anyone who doesn't think the world is supposed to be given to them free on a silver platter, NONE.
So let's extrapolate a bit. You hear about HL2, you want to play. It's clear if you pay any attention to the press, that Steam is required. Complaints aplenty fly around the net about how "intrusive" and "big brother like" it is. Anyone with half a brain can read reviews, look at chat boards etc. and hear the flap being raised about this.
Do you assert that there's some RIGHT to be able to play the game on YOUR terms, regardless of the creator's intentions? Bullshit. If you don't like the licensing terms of HL2 and Steam, don't play. It's that simple. Valve will lose money (or not) based on whether or not their terms are acceptable to most people. End of story. There are no consumer rights being violated, unless you think you have a right to dictate all terms, which flys directly in the face of all legal precedent in this arena. Vote with your pocketbook and quit whining already!
Don't tell me that companies should have the right to screw 'stupid' people and then question my priorities.
Try not to put words in my mouth, moron. There's no "right to screw stupid people" and anything you're reading into what I say along those lines is your problem not mine.
The fact remains, that it is up to YOU to know WHAT YOU ARE BUYING. If you don't like the terms of the license, and if you don't like the way the software works, there are plenty of avenues to learn about these things before plunking down your hard earned cash. As I said at the start, no one is holding a gun to your head to force you to buy what you obviously think is a defective product. So don't buy it. Have a nice day. No need to be a sheep. In fact, if you act like a sheep and buy it anyway, without having done your homework, then you forfeit your right to bitch.
If you voluntarily give up your rights by agreeing to a coercive EULA, then you have no one to blame but yourself. Bitching afterwords is like an 18 year old voting for Bush and then whining about being sent to Iraq in a draft.
People on dial-up lines have to wait forever to get patches
and how would they get patches any other way in the absence of Steam? By... oh maybe... downloading them? Waiting forever?
See other comments about "offline mode" as well. When I had network problems about a week ago, Steam couldn't connect to the net, it asked me if I wanted to play in offline mode, and voila! it worked just great.
I was going to buy HL2 in spite of steam, but considering their recent actions, I think I'll be happier without.
There you go, exercising the power of the purse instead of ignoring the reality and whining about it later. If more of the anti-Steam folks could be bothered to engage their brains BEFORE spending their cash, we wouldn't be having this discussion, would we?
yay! One person with a legitimate complaint about Steam!
By the way, does the box state that it requires download or network access? If it does, that kinda negates your point. But if it doesn't, you're the only person I've seen here so far that has a real beef. Assuming you're one of those with the modem:-)
Ever hear of "caveat emptor"?? If you don't like the EULA, don't buy the product. You are not OWED anything if you're stupid enough to agree to things you don't like.
We're talking about GAMES here, not food, not shelter, not clothing. Get your priorities straight.
Bullshit. Nowhere in the original EULA did it say "you can run this game forever without us ever changing the EULA, the server technologies, etc" Not valid in the slightest, and if you'd read the rest of this thread you might see where I've talked about that in more detail. The idiot is whining that he paid $50 for an ephemeral product and is whining that it doesn't have an infinite lifespan.
No, translation is that people are whining. Nothing legitimate about it--if you agreed to the EULA that said they could change things at their whim, too fucking bad. Get over yourself. Quit pretending that licensing terms YOU LIKE are OWED to you.
Slashdot Mirror
Waaaaaa.
Show me where I said no one should have any consumer rights on anything. I didn't even say you SHOULDN'T have rights on a game--just that you currently don't, and the way to fix it is not to whine about it. Withhold your money, put Valve out of business, work to get legislation passed, whatever. Go to it.
Since I have a good, mostly reliable internet connection, and I enjoy the game, I couldn't care less. In the end, if they change it and I don't like it, chances are really good that'll come after I've played through the single user game anyway, I will have gotten my $50 out of the game, and I won't have too much heartburn about moving on to something else. As I've said elsewhere, nowhere does the EULA guarantee perpetual access under your terms. Don't like it, don't buy it.
It's hardly reasonable to expect that you can buy the software and then change the EULA retroactively by whining on websites and pirating the software. Obviously you don't like EULA's. So research them before you spend your money, and use your money to encourage those EULA's that are reasonable. If you think that's insufficient because you are so much smarter than the unwashed masses, try to get legislation passed to protect the sheep from themselves. But that still doesn't justify an expectation that you're going to retroactively change a company's business practices with whining and piracy.
Nice out of context quoting, asswipe.
Complaining that the EULA sucks != "My RIGHTS! I'm BEING OPPRESSED!"
The EULA says "we can change the terms at our whim". Don't like it? Don't buy it. If enough people agree with you, Valve will pay the price and learn or die. It's called "capitalism".
If you didn't know that, you're an idiot who wasn't paying attention for the last 2 or 3 years, as Steam has been "required" for all of Valve's games for a while now...
The first part of your sentence is fully within your rights. The second part is not. If you don't like Steam, nobody is making you buy the game. Give up whining that you are justified to pirate the game because you don't like the terms it's sold under.
As I said, it's a legitimate beef, unlike all those who say EULA's are evil but buy the products with them anyway.
If your desire for the game overrides your common sense about not doing things that are (in your opinion) bad for your rights, what the fuck do you want me to do about it? Nobody owes you "the game" on your terms.
More power to you brother. That's the way it's supposed to work.
Which part of "if people don't like it, they won't buy it, and the company goes out of business" don't you understand? Seems like a great way to get the message across.
Awwwwww, I feel so sorry for them. I want free money too, but guess what? I don't waste my time bitching online that I'm not getting it.
Show me one commercial EULA that doesn't have that clause.
Show me who said you HAVE TO BUY THE PRODUCT if you don't like EULA's.
The user knows what they're buying?
Yep. They're buying "whatever Valve says they want". Says it right there. Don't like that? Don't fucking buy it.
Let's go back to "TFA". You buy HL1 and play it. No Steam required to play the single user game, which is what is being sold in the box. No Steam required to play the online game, which you get along with it. Eventually, after many years, Valve says "we are upgrading to a new platform, Steam, with a new EULA, and by the way we're phasing out the old online servers that let you find other games to connect to." Nowhere in the original EULA did it say the WON servers would be available forever. Not accepting the Steam EULA means not being able to use the new servers to find online games, but nothing stops you from agreeing on servers to play on with your friends, and connecting to and playing on those servers. Nothing stops you from playing the single-user version of the game to your heart's content.
WHAT RIGHTS HAVE BEEN VIOLATED?
Obviously to anyone who doesn't think the world is supposed to be given to them free on a silver platter, NONE.
So let's extrapolate a bit. You hear about HL2, you want to play. It's clear if you pay any attention to the press, that Steam is required. Complaints aplenty fly around the net about how "intrusive" and "big brother like" it is. Anyone with half a brain can read reviews, look at chat boards etc. and hear the flap being raised about this.
Do you assert that there's some RIGHT to be able to play the game on YOUR terms, regardless of the creator's intentions? Bullshit. If you don't like the licensing terms of HL2 and Steam, don't play. It's that simple. Valve will lose money (or not) based on whether or not their terms are acceptable to most people. End of story. There are no consumer rights being violated, unless you think you have a right to dictate all terms, which flys directly in the face of all legal precedent in this arena. Vote with your pocketbook and quit whining already!
Try not to put words in my mouth, moron. There's no "right to screw stupid people" and anything you're reading into what I say along those lines is your problem not mine.
The fact remains, that it is up to YOU to know WHAT YOU ARE BUYING. If you don't like the terms of the license, and if you don't like the way the software works, there are plenty of avenues to learn about these things before plunking down your hard earned cash. As I said at the start, no one is holding a gun to your head to force you to buy what you obviously think is a defective product. So don't buy it. Have a nice day. No need to be a sheep. In fact, if you act like a sheep and buy it anyway, without having done your homework, then you forfeit your right to bitch.
If you voluntarily give up your rights by agreeing to a coercive EULA, then you have no one to blame but yourself. Bitching afterwords is like an 18 year old voting for Bush and then whining about being sent to Iraq in a draft.
Except you don't, once you have it authenticated.
and how would they get patches any other way in the absence of Steam? By ... oh maybe... downloading them? Waiting forever?
See other comments about "offline mode" as well. When I had network problems about a week ago, Steam couldn't connect to the net, it asked me if I wanted to play in offline mode, and voila! it worked just great.
There you go, exercising the power of the purse instead of ignoring the reality and whining about it later. If more of the anti-Steam folks could be bothered to engage their brains BEFORE spending their cash, we wouldn't be having this discussion, would we?
By the way, does the box state that it requires download or network access? If it does, that kinda negates your point. But if it doesn't, you're the only person I've seen here so far that has a real beef. Assuming you're one of those with the modem :-)
We're talking about GAMES here, not food, not shelter, not clothing. Get your priorities straight.
Bullshit. Nowhere in the original EULA did it say "you can run this game forever without us ever changing the EULA, the server technologies, etc" Not valid in the slightest, and if you'd read the rest of this thread you might see where I've talked about that in more detail. The idiot is whining that he paid $50 for an ephemeral product and is whining that it doesn't have an infinite lifespan.
So don't purchase it then. Why is this difficult?
No, translation is that people are whining. Nothing legitimate about it--if you agreed to the EULA that said they could change things at their whim, too fucking bad. Get over yourself. Quit pretending that licensing terms YOU LIKE are OWED to you.