I am sick of my annoyed posts too. I found a way to shut up.
I blocked all news a couple of days ago.
I shall never see any annoying chick news (and all tech news too) and thus never respond to anything that annoys me.
I am continually locking out things that annoy me, that goad me to post dorky posts. Every time an item causes me to post dork, I block the entire category.
Eventually either I would never see anything that annoys me, and never responds with dork.
Or/. would be blank.
Either way, CY dork posts will quickly go away. I will be happier. Many like you will be happier. (And I think/. loads faster.:) )
Java has its own performance based problems for performance critical sections of my code.
Are there versions of Java or implementations of Java in which only user explicitly specific garbage collection?
A Java machine arbitrarily deciding when and how to garbage collect when I want to maintain network connection or something like this does not appear helpful.
Garbage collection-less Java would of course not have this problem for me.
"compiler internally generating and maintaining a virtual table of a lot of NULLs Could you elaborate a bit more on why architectures involving derived classes create wasteful indexes of information? I'm unfamiliar with compiler design, and am curious where this generation comes from."
-- The way most OO compilers keep track of object functionality being able to be "virtalized" is that even though in your code it is virtualized, in machine code it needs to keep an internal look up table to point to the right data memebers / function pointers by context.
-- Most implementations of instantiaion of any object derived from classes with virtual members involve *each* instantiation have its own sizable (size dependent on number of virtual members) table to allow for contextual retrieval.
"But does this burden disappear at all when the coder must explicitly know to provide a predefined degree of functionality? Doesn't having a base class enforce a minimum degree of functionality on derived classes, thus preventing situations where the programmer forgets to add some property and chaos ensues?"
-- This involves the foresight of know all possible future derivation (or variations of such derivation) before implementation, before debugging, before "base class usage."
-- It is a chick and egg thing. While it is *possible* to be such a forward thinking and insightful coder, it is at best *very difficult*.
-- In most cases, it is a code base class, derive children, amend base class, derive more children, amend base class further... derive children, must amend base class again, but wait that would affect my other children like this.
-- This is theoretically prevented by "thinking ahead about your base class" before you either code your base class nor your child.
-- Therefore, how *well* this works out comes back to the Goedel system of how "simple" your base class is.
-- The more powerful your base class, the more mathematically infeasible it is for you to design a non-breaking-base class.
"So what can be done to make deep weaving webs more understandable?"
-- Documentation will always be a challenge, and certain data structures like subclassing presents even greater challenge.
-- When something is flat (which of course has its own set of problems), its "structure" mimics that of "human language" which is also linear / verbal / mono-directional.
-- (Yes, conversation goes both ways. But most "comments" and "documentation" are one-way conversation. We *all* know the best documentation is a living polite lucide programmer who continually has 2-way communication with user.)
-- So, given human language comment and documentation *is* mono-directional, is linear, is flat, it is easier to map similar system to similar system.
-- It is thus easier to explicit document and comment linear C (non-base class referencing) code than OO code (which as well as you can describe its current behavior, you must reference back to its base class behavior to gain true understanding).
-- Yes, again, a completely intuitive base class that requires no documentation and comment of its interaction and effect with its derived children in anyway can solve this problem.
-- Unfortuantely there are very few real base classes besides a few obvious math primitive examples.
Subclassing can yield a lot of power to re-usability.
There are many caveats to subclassing implementation though.
Inheritance brings with it all the baggage of your chains of base classes. As much as you attempt to virtualize, thus yielding flexibility, you are still: a. compiler internally generating and maintaining a virtual table of a lot of NULLs b. the skeletal structure of the existing virtual functions or data members still define, and thus confine, your derived classes
You may gain the power to saving code from subclassing.
But then any subclassed class, which becomes someone else's base class, becomes less modifyable. Thus, in a way, a base-d class loses power.
For portability, ease of use, ease of understanding, anything which is a base class (something *any* subclass derives from) become not only self-consistent, but remain having to be concerned of intentional and unintentional behaviors (and optimization) of all of its derived classes.
A change to a base class A propagates all its changes, all its decrease in speed, all its complexity, down the chain to all its children.
Such "a complicated web we weave" makes *most* of the engine code difficult to modify and ungrade and re-use. Since changing most classes, since most of them are base classes, have too many performance or behavorial ramifications and penalties to the rest of the code.
Part of encapsulation is minimization interaction or effect of one set of code to another.
"Uncareful" or "deep" web of derivation in classes can turn encapsulation upside down.
Low level classes intended to hide or encapsulate behaviors, end up being the "weakest chain" that breaks in performance when too many vital classes are derived from them.
It is more difficult to document and comprehend such a deep weaving web.
Sometimes non-class, single interface, "flat" non-classing languages would and can ease both encapsulation, or maintainability.
To be fair to our poor DNF coders Chris, Nick and Tim, virtual class or no, it is a lot more than 4 lines of code to make magical DukeNukem.Actor's.:)
// OT to the "chick" thing
An example of "chick-divisive news" being harmful to women: the same site (GameSpy) requested an interview of me that I turned down.
Why?
Because the interview questions are / would be along the lines of "How is like to be a woman programmer?" "How is like to be a woman developing games?" "What insights would you have for women in game developement?" "What insights would you have for games for women?"
How in the world would I know or can speak for 50% of world population?
A Tim Sweeney, even a Seamus Blackley (Trespasser lead), never have to face questions like that.
They can discuss math, code, game, science, language.
But a woman would always be gender first, knowledge second. It shall always be more informative to know "how is it like to be a woman" from me than any knowledge I can or cnanot share with others.
The day when/. and others stop posting chick-gender-divisive articles. The moment sites stop posting essays and insights and editorials by women about women for women. The day when men and women coders are human coders.
Is the day when sites and interviewers will stop asking human coders like me "How is it like to be a woman?" and start asking me questions I know the answers to.
P.S. Isn't it ironic they ask a Playmate to describe Linux? And they ask a female coder "how is it like to be a woman"?
I am *pretty* sure this is true. Wipe Out success, but at what cost? My friends who worked on the first Wipe Out, in order to make some deadlines to get into the movie "Hackers" (Kate plays the first Wipe Out game in the movie "Hackers"), were given amphetamines / speed-like drugs to stay awake longer and work faster. It worked. Productivity was amazing. Then after Wipe Out shipped, my friends just crashed from all the drug use. Despite the improved productivity and lack of need of sleep, my friends who tried to develop-game-on-speed route heartily recommend against it. I just stick with my Diet Coke caffeine of choice and stay away from the meds, because of what my friends told me.
P.S. It was funny how I knew this story. I was coding engine on a game with some developers who were on the first Wipe Out team at Psygnosis. I am hyper-energetic. I sleep little to none. I am coding at the computer all the time, and always have an up-beat energetic cheerful hyper attitude. I eat copious amounts of food, and appears to stay thin. My ex-speed friends were convinced I was using speed to code. And tried to talk me out of it. They told me how drugs eventually messed you up. I kept telling them I am not on speed!
It just occurs to me it can be awfully funny to get John Katz onto the bandwagon of the poor oppressed abused overworked underpaid not given credit to average enthusiastic game coder.:)
Welcome to the Hellmouth, today we talk to the poor suffering coder who was told by marketing he's gotta massively irretrievably f*cked up the code base in 1 week for E3 deadline or else.:)
The credit thing really sucks. Sorry that it happens.
I've been recipient of this crap, and watch ex-co-workers be recipient of this crap.
Meanwhile have to put up with some producer / biz ahem excuse me DIRECTOR (in caps) / marketing / whatever / lunch-bringer to CEO be listed in bigger (or at all) than the dudes who do the work.
You've gotta do it for love only, and for a lotta love, to be willing to put up with all the credit crap.
It is funny there were so many chicks are oppressed articles. From what I get to see, the "average enthusiastic game developer" get "exploited" and "abused" in worst ways.
You right as many wrongs locally as you can.
P.S. I am *obviously* not speaking of my current company.:)
> Online games, such as Ultima Online, and Everquest, have this same sort of community problem
-- Or you mean the client prediction problem of your UO guy no-clipped into something, than teleport-no-clipped to some place else.:)
-- To bring it back to topic. It is *stupid* to read and write articles about "how games / whatever sucks for chick"... when games just suck.
-- All that crap R & D your marketing dept. tell you to throw at "make chick like your games" you can throw another coder to write some better client prediction code. Then guys *and* chicks like you more.
-- One step at a time folks. Forget about this whole "make chicks like our games!" "make computers good for chicks!"
-- Man, computers, OS, online games... doesn't even work well for all homo sapiens... let's go leave these crap topics alone... and go back to more R & D on solving tech problems for the entire human race, not just 50% of the population.
P.S. Apologies to being a little sarcastic about the whole client-side prediction thing. This is what I am coding now, and I know more than anyone it is admirable whenever someone does a "decent" job.
I am just trying to make a sarcastic point that we shouldn't waste our attention to such pointless crap about a coupla of flames here and there, when OS really sucks, they are really fat, game developers have trouble getting the right content... all that good juicy stuff.
My final solution and protest to all this eye-sore chick crap is to completely turn off news.
I'd rather not read any/. news, than to read another insightful moron (male or female) spouting about how women are oh so different from men, how we should waste our precious R & D time to "make games magical and special and lovable to chicks" (whatever the crap that is, I love Soul Caliber, I love Duke (biased here:) ), I love Doom (but hate Quake)... good games are just good games... and we don't even get that right most of the time)
"In the early days, everyone was more or less on an equal footing: no 3d. Now a days, people are rushing to fit every known 3d feature into their game."
In many technology engine developments, many are satisfying the eye, and neglecting many useful things.
Coding gears more towards screenshots that spooge, or short AVI's that spooge.
Spooging is important.
And there are many non-spooging things (related to engine/code/tech) that is also important to research, and develop, that is being neglected in many engines.
So... fellow 3D game programmer... what are you doing your part in the non-spooge category of technology development?:)
"As a 3D game programmer I am looking forward to when a Holo-deck wil be feasible, until then we are stuck with very sparsely populated [computer] worlds."
As a 3D game programmer I *am* seeing very densely populated computer worlds, and not just in my engine.:) (Do not quote this as 3DR engine spec, or you shall be flogged.)
There lacks "famous" console developers, not on the same fame level as PC developers.
Console bestsellers (the titles, and the "companies") actually reach a larger audience, and generate more income, than even a "famous PC hit" that is a popular household name.
It is true the "fame spotlight" falls on PC developers a lot more disporportionately than on "equally influentially, talented, successful" console developers.
// console superstar coders:)
Understanding this lack of limelight, I do my part to praise the coding ability of my fellow console coders (some on and even above the ability of Carmack, but are way less well-known only because of platform) when opportunities arise.
Sales, development record, talent, ability, knowledge, that "super code god power:)", optimization, in all counts there are some on the console world that exceeds Carmack, and are not household names.
(Yes, this means they exceed me obviously in code-god-hood.:) )
// fame the harsh mistress
As I "pity" my talented console coder friends for not having the limelight of fame, and discuss this issue, we come to the conclusion that the "PC game superstar celebrity syndrome" is a mixed blessing and harsh mistress:
1. PC fame attracts the *wrong* people. In the early years, it is only about people who do it for the love.
Now because there is so much fame (and sometimes money) involved, we attract a new breed more interested in turning themselves into celebrities, instead of loving the game, loving the code, loving the work.
We also start focusing our admiration of PC developers based more on "glamor", "photogenic", "great personality" instead of honest-to-goodness knowledge, ability, talent, and contribution.
My console developers are grateful their development world did not get "turvey-ed" like ours (PC).
2. Fame means Flame
With additional attention comes additional scrutiny. With additional scrutiny comes additional abuse.
PC developers face the level of drubbing and abuse the likes of which console developers laugh at.:)
Conclusion is, my smart console developer friends are happy to be anonymously optimizing to the latest ARM instructrions, instead of dealing with the "glamor queens" and the "flaming fanatics."
// Namco Namco does it right often too. Though Soul Caliber does sway the vote a little.:)
// Devil's Advocate Directly from their offices, I shall put up flame retardant and state that Parasite Eve failed my (admittedly high) expectation of smooth gameplay.
PC FF port was listed, but weren't they done by Eidos-contracted developers, and not the "Japanese"?
(Internally Square segregates "real" Square as the "Japanese" Square. To them "American" Square *doesn't* count.)
// How they succeed
1. You are right. Millions of dollars. Teams, no, hordes of developers. How many in America can afford to the same?:)
2. No press before its time. "Shut up." "Don't say anything." "Doesn't matter if all the FF fans keep bugging you when it's done, or when they can know something, not a word."
Development of good games sometimes takes lots of people, sometimes takes lots of time, sometimes take both. Japanese fans are more "well-behaved" when it comes to "understanding" the manpower or length of time needed.:) (ouch, please don't flame me or my company on this.)
You don't see Square posting a screenshot a day starting the 1st month of development of Final Fantasy VIII. No point in showing anything until it is ready.
3. Like all good games, from small teams or big teams, developed in 6 months, or takes 4 years: good, talented, hardworking developers who put it all in it just for you.:)
// Even more admirable
While Square's game development is admirable, we should perhaps admire "small" game teams without millions of dollars (and hordes of "development ninjas":) ) that also develop great awesome games.
Photo-based rendering combined with video, actual shots, digitization can merge realism and dynamism.
Polygonal complexity shall outstrip the "art development budget" required to create that many polygons to build that many models, not only for indie developers, but even for mid-size (non-Square-Final-Fantasy-size) development teams.
Polygon as a basic content primitive shall soon become unwieldily expensive.
Mathematically, both the ideas of "convex hull polygon shell" and "affine transformation of bitmap onto hull -- *ahem* texturing" are temporary artificial constructs eventually inadequate to represent reality.
A game engine is a whore now? I certain hope not.:)
Guns don't kill people. Technology or 3D engine doesn't kill game design.
I do agree *most* of technology development become *solely devoted* that which could be displayed in screenshot (or short AVI).
There is worthy technology and engine development technology (like higher dynamism), that won't give you "a screenshot to spooge on", but shall be vital to growing design and game play to a higher level than camp and frag.
More technology and engine development should look inward to revamp data structures and networking concepts, to impress and satisfy not only the eye (though that is very important), but also the fingers on the mouse, and the heart thumping in the chest.:)
Thank you for kudos. If you don't mind, I would like to clip your quote and forward it to George and Scott. They are devoted to the small developer culture and would be pleased by it.
The following are my personal opinion, and not representative of my game project, nor my company.
I had and have a huge choice of companies to code at, and Apogee really stands out as a big company that works very hard to stay feeling like a small indie developer. That Apogee exists. That we are making some cool games and projects. That it feels like we will be making many for a long time to come. Just gives me renewed faith that small guys can still be around to make cool stuff.
I personally (not as representative of the company) contribute what I can to indie game dev. Because indie is fresh blood, and living creativity, of our industry. We will stifle ourselves with clones if we do not maintain and encourage a healthy indie culture.
I agree our field is still very money, very (large) publisher driven. That many small developers (and you would be surprised by *who* are *still small* developers, you would expect after such kicka** titles they should be *big* by now:) ) are still creatively, technically, or financially under the thumb of money or funding.
A few lucky groups break free of that. And I am grateful I code for one of them.
I am a coder, not a toy-maker. So if the following suggestsions are dorky to professional toy-makers I apologize.
The following are some toys I would enjoy.
1. Toys that allow me to squish a geometric form into its dual, and back to its dual.
2. Toys that allow me to build viral crystal building blocks, and visualize how viral crystals stack.
3. Toys composed simply of 1 gadget, an octet truss, or an isotropic vector matrix. http://www.inetarena.com/~pdx4d/ocn/chaos0.html
4. Polyhedron truncation. Things that allow me to make new polyhedron by truncating corners. And then allows me to make new polyhedron by un-truncating corners.
5. Packing toys. i.e., spheres of arbitrary sizes, pyramids of aribitrary sizes, and then a way to contruct convex hull containers of arbitrary interesting shapes. Then I can build the convex hull, throw spheres or pyramids into them, shake them around (thus, applying physical real-life stochastic simulated annealing to find local min bounds), and see what I get.
If any of the above are dorkily impractical toy suggestions, my apologies.
P.S. I know we can write code to simulate all the above. But there is something fun to "touch things with your hands.":)
I intentionally *don't* read cosmo and home and gardens.
I intentionally *code* at 3DR.
I intentionally *come* to/. for science, math, nuclear physics, HW, open source, coding.
I submit several "hard math" or "hard science" news and none of them get on. (There is some great cryptology breakthroughs in mathematics BTW. But it is important to know that chicks don't like games.)
Other people submit "hard math", "hard science", "open source projects" don't get on.
And anything that says "chick" gets on?
If I want news like that, I would subscribe to Home and Garden, not Linux Magazine.
P.S. And yes, I am pissed "those women" (plus all the people who think Titanic is a good movie) ruined the demographics, and thus popularity of things I enjoy, for me.
I thought/. is geek haven, where "mainstream tastes" do not need to apply.
I did say I am a minority, but I thought I "belong" to the same geek minority as the/. reader.
A woman who chooses "to earn enough money to support herself" so she can marry whoever the h*ll she likes has a happier marriage for herself
and her husband.
A woman who chooses a mate that can earn enough money to support her is destined for a life of financial uncertainty whenever her walking bank account gets bored of her, and in a world of frustration and conflict knowing that the "importance" of his job and his life subjugates hers.
(i.e., honey, i'm busy. okay, money bags, i need to leave you alone so I can have lots of money.)
Aw. But please support the chief financial supporter of my beloved 3D engine.
Would it be worth it if I have been petitioning the Duke mappers to put in male homosexual strippers to appeal to the male homo market?
BTW, they won't listen.:) Though they would make Duke Nukem "sexier" and more "muscular" to appeal the the gay guy. (Any news sites that dare quote me on that will receive flogging.)
Here goes both my +1 bonus, and all my karma, but someone's gotta say it.
/. Hemos stop it already.
1. Women, female, homo sapiens with breasts, are not a different species. They all have their own minds to think for themselves what they like and don't like.
2. More "women like this, men like that" articles on a supposedly intelligent place like/. is demeaning to women. And exaggerating differences that are eventually minimal. (Legitmate bioneural research debunked most of gender differences as within statistical norms.)
3. 1 woman does not speak for >= 50% of world population. If so, I shall wield my woman power. "Hi. I am female. I know that all women in this world like hot grits poured down a petrified Natalie Portman." Give me karma now. I said I am female and I posted something.
4. The same fallacy is "This is from woman site." "This is written by a woman." This is / must be what all women think.
5. Any time you post an item like this, you are interviewing 1 fewer nuclear physicist, you are reporting on 1 few Open Source project, you are missing out on 1 new mathematical research on encryption.... you know "news for nerds, stuff that matters".... if you really want to help women, help this 1 woman nerd with her research and post some math and science!
6. Woman? Game? I am a woman. I code for 3D Realms. Enough said about all your generalizations.
7. I want to use my woman telepathy power again. "Hi. I am female. I think all women think your writing this article instead of interviewing Bryce on how to get art and music and content for a free Open Source game offends our entire gender." All women want to share how to get content for games. Really.
8. I shall start the protest of more hard science, more hard math, more hard news, more coding information, more HW information. This is NOT Psychology Today.
9. I only protest strongly because/. is my favorite place, and the last sanctuary for "intellect" and "geekdom." There is no place else for me to go to get geek news besides here.
10. OTOH, if you know of geek inform sites free of this gender - dividing slant, please let me know.
*sigh* I know I am the minority (maybe the only human) in this. I know all you male geeks like this chick topics cuz it causes all the chicks to post. I know all the women like these articles for all the different reasons.
I look forward to the day (apparently really far in the future) when we are all just people.
Go flame. Go take away my karma. If this goes on long enough, I have to stop coming here anyway, so karma won't matter.
Here goes both my +1 bonus, and all my karma, but someone's gotta say it.
/. Hemos stop it already.
1. Women, female, homo sapiens with breasts, are not a different species. They all have their own minds to think for themselves what they like and don't like.
2. More "women like this, men like that" articles on a supposedly intelligent place like/. is demeaning to women. And exaggerating differences that are eventually minimal. (Legitmate bioneural research debunked most of gender differences as within statistical norms.)
3. 1 woman does not speak for >= 50% of world population. If so, I shall wield my woman power. "Hi. I am female. I know that all women in this world like hot grits poured down a petrified Natalie Portman." Give me karma now. I said I am female and I posted something.
4. The same fallacy is "This is from woman site." "This is written by a woman." This is / must be what all women think.
5. Any time you post an item like this, you are interviewing 1 fewer nuclear physicist, you are reporting on 1 few Open Source project, you are missing out on 1 new mathematical research on encryption.... you know "news for nerds, stuff that matters".... if you really want to help women, help this 1 woman nerd with her research and post some math and science!
6. Woman? Game? I am a woman. I code for 3D Realms. Enough said about all your generalizations.
7. I want to use my woman telepathy power again. "Hi. I am female. I think all women think your writing this article instead of interviewing Bryce on how to get art and music and content for a free Open Source game offends our entire gender." All women want to share how to get content for games. Really.
8. I shall start the protest of more hard science, more hard math, more hard news, more coding information, more HW information. This is NOT Psychology Today.
9. I only protest strongly because/. is my favorite place, and the last sanctuary for "intellect" and "geekdom." There is no place else for me to go to get geek news besides here.
10. OTOH, if you know of geek inform sites free of this gender - dividing slant, please let me know.
*sigh* I know I am the minority (maybe the only human) in this. I know all you male geeks like this chick topics cuz it causes all the chicks to post. I know all the women like these articles for all the different reasons.
I look forward to the day (apparently really far in the future) when we are all just people.
Go flame. Go take away my karma. If this goes on long enough, I have to stop coming here anyway, so karma won't matter.
I have been following your project for a while, and am genuinely impressed of a great job being done.
Your project would make a great information OS/. story, not only because it is OS, but that it distinguishes itself by demonstrating some useful solutions to the "artist/content problem" that many other OS gfx-related project can benefit from.
There were a short thread recently about how the home-made (i.e., non-big-game-corporation) games are dead. Because (supposedly) new games require the kind of content that cannot be obtained without a huge budget for art, et. al.
Your project dealt with this dilemma admirably.
Many potential home-made game developers can learn from your story.
Tell you what.
1. I will write Hemos/. and ask to have your project be made news.
2. They'd probably ignore us.:) (Am I pessimistic, Hemos?)
3. If they do, we can talk about other non-/. ways where we can put you in touch with other home-made game makers (and potential contributors), and other ways to get get your project more well-known, okay?:)
4. If you don't mind I would like you to discuss and share your content development solutions to potential set tops hackers.
Next-Gen set tops have some great hacking potential lacking even in some next-gen PC HW accelerators. And I would love to see some great set top hacks along some creative inventions of pixel pipeline routes. If supposedly "content" (which I still disagree:) ) is stopping them, then it is content we should figure out how to solve.:)
I want to help. I think you can help many others. Let's talk off-line.
Slashdot Mirror
I am sick of my annoyed posts too. I found a way to shut up.
/. would be blank.
/. loads faster. :) )
I blocked all news a couple of days ago.
I shall never see any annoying chick news (and all tech news too) and thus never respond to anything that annoys me.
I am continually locking out things that annoy me, that goad me to post dorky posts. Every time an item causes me to post dork, I block the entire category.
Eventually either I would never see anything that annoys me, and never responds with dork.
Or
Either way, CY dork posts will quickly go away. I will be happier. Many like you will be happier. (And I think
Java has its own performance based problems for performance critical sections of my code.
Are there versions of Java or implementations of Java in which only user explicitly specific garbage collection?
A Java machine arbitrarily deciding when and how to garbage collect when I want to maintain network connection or something like this does not appear helpful.
Garbage collection-less Java would of course not have this problem for me.
"compiler internally generating and maintaining a virtual table of a lot of NULLs
... derive children, must amend base class again, but wait that would affect my other children like this.
Could you elaborate a bit more on why architectures involving derived classes create wasteful indexes of information? I'm unfamiliar with compiler design, and am curious where this generation comes from."
-- The way most OO compilers keep track of object functionality being able to be "virtalized" is that even though in your code it is virtualized, in machine code it needs to keep an internal look up table to point to the right data memebers / function pointers by context.
-- Most implementations of instantiaion of any object derived from classes with virtual members involve *each* instantiation have its own sizable (size dependent on number of virtual members) table to allow for contextual retrieval.
"But does this burden disappear at all when the coder must explicitly know to provide a predefined degree of functionality? Doesn't having a base class enforce a minimum degree of functionality on derived classes, thus preventing situations where the programmer forgets to add some property and chaos ensues?"
-- This involves the foresight of know all possible future derivation (or variations of such derivation) before implementation, before debugging, before "base class usage."
-- It is a chick and egg thing. While it is *possible* to be such a forward thinking and insightful coder, it is at best *very difficult*.
-- In most cases, it is a code base class, derive children, amend base class, derive more children, amend base class further
-- This is theoretically prevented by "thinking ahead about your base class" before you either code your base class nor your child.
-- Therefore, how *well* this works out comes back to the Goedel system of how "simple" your base class is.
-- The more powerful your base class, the more mathematically infeasible it is for you to design a non-breaking-base class.
"So what can be done to make deep weaving webs more understandable?"
-- Documentation will always be a challenge, and certain data structures like subclassing presents even greater challenge.
-- When something is flat (which of course has its own set of problems), its "structure" mimics that of "human language" which is also linear / verbal / mono-directional.
-- (Yes, conversation goes both ways. But most "comments" and "documentation" are one-way conversation. We *all* know the best documentation is a living polite lucide programmer who continually has 2-way communication with user.)
-- So, given human language comment and documentation *is* mono-directional, is linear, is flat, it is easier to map similar system to similar system.
-- It is thus easier to explicit document and comment linear C (non-base class referencing) code than OO code (which as well as you can describe its current behavior, you must reference back to its base class behavior to gain true understanding).
-- Yes, again, a completely intuitive base class that requires no documentation and comment of its interaction and effect with its derived children in anyway can solve this problem.
-- Unfortuantely there are very few real base classes besides a few obvious math primitive examples.
Good meaty informative writing.
:)
/. and others stop posting chick-gender-divisive articles. The moment sites stop posting essays and insights and editorials by women about women for women. The day when men and women coders are human coders.
Subclassing can yield a lot of power to re-usability.
There are many caveats to subclassing implementation though.
Inheritance brings with it all the baggage of your chains of base classes. As much as you attempt to virtualize, thus yielding flexibility, you are still:
a. compiler internally generating and maintaining a virtual table of a lot of NULLs
b. the skeletal structure of the existing virtual functions or data members still define, and thus confine, your derived classes
You may gain the power to saving code from subclassing.
But then any subclassed class, which becomes someone else's base class, becomes less modifyable. Thus, in a way, a base-d class loses power.
For portability, ease of use, ease of understanding, anything which is a base class (something *any* subclass derives from) become not only self-consistent, but remain having to be concerned of intentional and unintentional behaviors (and optimization) of all of its derived classes.
A change to a base class A propagates all its changes, all its decrease in speed, all its complexity, down the chain to all its children.
Such "a complicated web we weave" makes *most* of the engine code difficult to modify and ungrade and re-use. Since changing most classes, since most of them are base classes, have too many performance or behavorial ramifications and penalties to the rest of the code.
Part of encapsulation is minimization interaction or effect of one set of code to another.
"Uncareful" or "deep" web of derivation in classes can turn encapsulation upside down.
Low level classes intended to hide or encapsulate behaviors, end up being the "weakest chain" that breaks in performance when too many vital classes are derived from them.
It is more difficult to document and comprehend such a deep weaving web.
Sometimes non-class, single interface, "flat" non-classing languages would and can ease both encapsulation, or maintainability.
To be fair to our poor DNF coders Chris, Nick and Tim, virtual class or no, it is a lot more than 4 lines of code to make magical DukeNukem.Actor's.
// OT to the "chick" thing
An example of "chick-divisive news" being harmful to women: the same site (GameSpy) requested an interview of me that I turned down.
Why?
Because the interview questions are / would be along the lines of "How is like to be a woman programmer?" "How is like to be a woman developing games?" "What insights would you have for women in game developement?" "What insights would you have for games for women?"
How in the world would I know or can speak for 50% of world population?
A Tim Sweeney, even a Seamus Blackley (Trespasser lead), never have to face questions like that.
They can discuss math, code, game, science, language.
But a woman would always be gender first, knowledge second. It shall always be more informative to know "how is it like to be a woman" from me than any knowledge I can or cnanot share with others.
The day when
Is the day when sites and interviewers will stop asking human coders like me "How is it like to be a woman?" and start asking me questions I know the answers to.
P.S. Isn't it ironic they ask a Playmate to describe Linux? And they ask a female coder "how is it like to be a woman"?
I am *pretty* sure this is true.
Wipe Out success, but at what cost?
My friends who worked on the first Wipe Out, in order to make some deadlines to get into the movie "Hackers" (Kate plays the first Wipe Out game in the movie "Hackers"), were given amphetamines / speed-like drugs to stay awake longer and work faster.
It worked. Productivity was amazing.
Then after Wipe Out shipped, my friends just crashed from all the drug use.
Despite the improved productivity and lack of need of sleep, my friends who tried to develop-game-on-speed route heartily recommend against it.
I just stick with my Diet Coke caffeine of choice and stay away from the meds, because of what my friends told me.
P.S. It was funny how I knew this story. I was coding engine on a game with some developers who were on the first Wipe Out team at Psygnosis. I am hyper-energetic. I sleep little to none. I am coding at the computer all the time, and always have an up-beat energetic cheerful hyper attitude. I eat copious amounts of food, and appears to stay thin.
My ex-speed friends were convinced I was using speed to code. And tried to talk me out of it. They told me how drugs eventually messed you up.
I kept telling them I am not on speed!
It just occurs to me it can be awfully funny to get John Katz onto the bandwagon of the poor oppressed abused overworked underpaid not given credit to average enthusiastic game coder. :)
:)
Welcome to the Hellmouth, today we talk to the poor suffering coder who was told by marketing he's gotta massively irretrievably f*cked up the code base in 1 week for E3 deadline or else.
Ditto.
:)
The credit thing really sucks.
Sorry that it happens.
I've been recipient of this crap, and watch ex-co-workers be recipient of this crap.
Meanwhile have to put up with some producer / biz ahem excuse me DIRECTOR (in caps) / marketing / whatever / lunch-bringer to CEO be listed in bigger (or at all) than the dudes who do the work.
You've gotta do it for love only, and for a lotta love, to be willing to put up with all the credit crap.
It is funny there were so many chicks are oppressed articles. From what I get to see, the "average enthusiastic game developer" get "exploited" and "abused" in worst ways.
You right as many wrongs locally as you can.
P.S. I am *obviously* not speaking of my current company.
1. Amen
2. When hell freezes over
:)
I would say Square has *more* man/hours on development than many American developers.
> Online games, such as Ultima Online, and Everquest, have this same sort of community problem
:)
... when games just suck.
... doesn't even work well for all homo sapiens ... let's go leave these crap topics alone ... and go back to more R & D on solving tech problems for the entire human race, not just 50% of the population.
... all that good juicy stuff.
/. news, than to read another insightful moron (male or female) spouting about how women are oh so different from men, how we should waste our precious R & D time to "make games magical and special and lovable to chicks" (whatever the crap that is, I love Soul Caliber, I love Duke (biased here :) ), I love Doom (but hate Quake) ... good games are just good games ... and we don't even get that right most of the time)
-- Or you mean the client prediction problem of your UO guy no-clipped into something, than teleport-no-clipped to some place else.
-- To bring it back to topic. It is *stupid* to read and write articles about "how games / whatever sucks for chick"
-- All that crap R & D your marketing dept. tell you to throw at "make chick like your games" you can throw another coder to write some better client prediction code. Then guys *and* chicks like you more.
-- One step at a time folks. Forget about this whole "make chicks like our games!" "make computers good for chicks!"
-- Man, computers, OS, online games
P.S. Apologies to being a little sarcastic about the whole client-side prediction thing. This is what I am coding now, and I know more than anyone it is admirable whenever someone does a "decent" job.
I am just trying to make a sarcastic point that we shouldn't waste our attention to such pointless crap about a coupla of flames here and there, when OS really sucks, they are really fat, game developers have trouble getting the right content
My final solution and protest to all this eye-sore chick crap is to completely turn off news.
I'd rather not read any
"In the early days, everyone was more or less on an equal footing: no 3d. Now a days, people are rushing to fit every known 3d feature into their game."
... fellow 3D game programmer ... what are you doing your part in the non-spooge category of technology development? :)
In many technology engine developments, many are satisfying the eye, and neglecting many useful things.
Coding gears more towards screenshots that spooge, or short AVI's that spooge.
Spooging is important.
And there are many non-spooging things (related to engine/code/tech) that is also important to research, and develop, that is being neglected in many engines.
So
"As a 3D game programmer I am looking forward to when a Holo-deck wil be feasible, until then we are stuck with very sparsely populated [computer] worlds."
:) (Do not quote this as 3DR engine spec, or you shall be flogged.)
As a 3D game programmer I *am* seeing very densely populated computer worlds, and not just in my engine.
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=00/01/24/09392 46&cid=123
I saw several posts bemoan the sadness of game development not having superstars or celebs.
Not having celebrity is a good thing!
Besides the 2 points above (fame draws the *wrong* people, fame leads to flame) another advantage comes to mind:
Celebrity and superstar worship can stifle as much as it inspires.
Instead of growing into the coder one can become, a fanatic may dovetail his code development into that of whoever is "famous."
While good learning can take place.
Uncreative clon-ing can also take place.
I would much rather game coders and developers are people.
And that good smart knowledgeable talented game coders and developers are "respected people."
Respected for their knowledge and insights. And nothing more.
// What I think the article meant
:)
:)", optimization, in all counts there are some on the console world that exceeds Carmack, and are not household names.
:) )
:)
:)
There lacks "famous" console developers, not on the same fame level as PC developers.
Console bestsellers (the titles, and the "companies") actually reach a larger audience, and generate more income, than even a "famous PC hit" that is a popular household name.
It is true the "fame spotlight" falls on PC developers a lot more disporportionately than on "equally influentially, talented, successful" console developers.
// console superstar coders
Understanding this lack of limelight, I do my part to praise the coding ability of my fellow console coders (some on and even above the ability of Carmack, but are way less well-known only because of platform) when opportunities arise.
Sales, development record, talent, ability, knowledge, that "super code god power
(Yes, this means they exceed me obviously in code-god-hood.
// fame the harsh mistress
As I "pity" my talented console coder friends for not having the limelight of fame, and discuss this issue, we come to the conclusion that the "PC game superstar celebrity syndrome" is a mixed blessing and harsh mistress:
1. PC fame attracts the *wrong* people. In the early years, it is only about people who do it for the love.
Now because there is so much fame (and sometimes money) involved, we attract a new breed more interested in turning themselves into celebrities, instead of loving the game, loving the code, loving the work.
We also start focusing our admiration of PC developers based more on "glamor", "photogenic", "great personality" instead of honest-to-goodness knowledge, ability, talent, and contribution.
My console developers are grateful their development world did not get "turvey-ed" like ours (PC).
2. Fame means Flame
With additional attention comes additional scrutiny. With additional scrutiny comes additional abuse.
PC developers face the level of drubbing and abuse the likes of which console developers laugh at.
Conclusion is, my smart console developer friends are happy to be anonymously optimizing to the latest ARM instructrions, instead of dealing with the "glamor queens" and the "flaming fanatics."
Good for them.
// Namco :)
:)
:) (ouch, please don't flame me or my company on this.)
:)
:) ) that also develop great awesome games.
Namco does it right often too. Though Soul Caliber does sway the vote a little.
// Devil's Advocate
Directly from their offices, I shall put up flame retardant and state that Parasite Eve failed my (admittedly high) expectation of smooth gameplay.
PC FF port was listed, but weren't they done by Eidos-contracted developers, and not the "Japanese"?
(Internally Square segregates "real" Square as the "Japanese" Square. To them "American" Square *doesn't* count.)
// How they succeed
1. You are right. Millions of dollars. Teams, no, hordes of developers. How many in America can afford to the same?
2. No press before its time. "Shut up." "Don't say anything." "Doesn't matter if all the FF fans keep bugging you when it's done, or when they can know something, not a word."
Development of good games sometimes takes lots of people, sometimes takes lots of time, sometimes take both. Japanese fans are more "well-behaved" when it comes to "understanding" the manpower or length of time needed.
You don't see Square posting a screenshot a day starting the 1st month of development of Final Fantasy VIII. No point in showing anything until it is ready.
3. Like all good games, from small teams or big teams, developed in 6 months, or takes 4 years: good, talented, hardworking developers who put it all in it just for you.
// Even more admirable
While Square's game development is admirable, we should perhaps admire "small" game teams without millions of dollars (and hordes of "development ninjas"
Not necessarily.
Photo-based rendering combined with video, actual shots, digitization can merge realism and dynamism.
Polygonal complexity shall outstrip the "art development budget" required to create that many polygons to build that many models, not only for indie developers, but even for mid-size (non-Square-Final-Fantasy-size) development teams.
Polygon as a basic content primitive shall soon become unwieldily expensive.
Mathematically, both the ideas of "convex hull polygon shell" and "affine transformation of bitmap onto hull -- *ahem* texturing" are temporary artificial constructs eventually inadequate to represent reality.
A game engine is a whore now? I certain hope not. :)
:)
Guns don't kill people. Technology or 3D engine doesn't kill game design.
I do agree *most* of technology development become *solely devoted* that which could be displayed in screenshot (or short AVI).
There is worthy technology and engine development technology (like higher dynamism), that won't give you "a screenshot to spooge on", but shall be vital to growing design and game play to a higher level than camp and frag.
More technology and engine development should look inward to revamp data structures and networking concepts, to impress and satisfy not only the eye (though that is very important), but also the fingers on the mouse, and the heart thumping in the chest.
Apologies to OT.
:) ) are still creatively, technically, or financially under the thumb of money or funding.
Thank you for kudos. If you don't mind, I would like to clip your quote and forward it to George and Scott. They are devoted to the small developer culture and would be pleased by it.
The following are my personal opinion, and not representative of my game project, nor my company.
I had and have a huge choice of companies to code at, and Apogee really stands out as a big company that works very hard to stay feeling like a small indie developer. That Apogee exists. That we are making some cool games and projects. That it feels like we will be making many for a long time to come. Just gives me renewed faith that small guys can still be around to make cool stuff.
I personally (not as representative of the company) contribute what I can to indie game dev. Because indie is fresh blood, and living creativity, of our industry. We will stifle ourselves with clones if we do not maintain and encourage a healthy indie culture.
I agree our field is still very money, very (large) publisher driven. That many small developers (and you would be surprised by *who* are *still small* developers, you would expect after such kicka** titles they should be *big* by now
A few lucky groups break free of that. And I am grateful I code for one of them.
I am a coder, not a toy-maker. So if the following suggestsions are dorky to professional toy-makers I apologize.
:)
The following are some toys I would enjoy.
1. Toys that allow me to squish a geometric form into its dual, and back to its dual.
2. Toys that allow me to build viral crystal building blocks, and visualize how viral crystals stack.
3. Toys composed simply of 1 gadget, an octet truss, or an isotropic vector matrix.
http://www.inetarena.com/~pdx4d/ocn/chaos0.html
4. Polyhedron truncation. Things that allow me to make new polyhedron by truncating corners. And then allows me to make new polyhedron by un-truncating corners.
5. Packing toys. i.e., spheres of arbitrary sizes, pyramids of aribitrary sizes, and then a way to contruct convex hull containers of arbitrary interesting shapes. Then I can build the convex hull, throw spheres or pyramids into them, shake them around (thus, applying physical real-life stochastic simulated annealing to find local min bounds), and see what I get.
If any of the above are dorkily impractical toy suggestions, my apologies.
P.S. I know we can write code to simulate all the above. But there is something fun to "touch things with your hands."
That is the point of rant.
/. for science, math, nuclear physics, HW, open source, coding.
/. is geek haven, where "mainstream tastes" do not need to apply.
/. reader.
I intentionally *don't* read cosmo and home and gardens.
I intentionally *code* at 3DR.
I intentionally *come* to
I submit several "hard math" or "hard science" news and none of them get on. (There is some great cryptology breakthroughs in mathematics BTW. But it is important to know that chicks don't like games.)
Other people submit "hard math", "hard science", "open source projects" don't get on.
And anything that says "chick" gets on?
If I want news like that, I would subscribe to Home and Garden, not Linux Magazine.
P.S. And yes, I am pissed "those women" (plus all the people who think Titanic is a good movie) ruined the demographics, and thus popularity of things I enjoy, for me.
I thought
I did say I am a minority, but I thought I "belong" to the same geek minority as the
So OT.
A woman who chooses "to earn enough money to support herself" so she can marry whoever the h*ll she likes has a happier marriage for herself
and her husband.
A woman who chooses a mate that can earn enough money to support her is destined for a life of financial uncertainty whenever her walking bank account gets bored of her, and in a world of frustration and conflict knowing that the "importance" of his job and his life subjugates hers.
(i.e., honey, i'm busy. okay, money bags, i need to leave you alone so I can have lots of money.)
:)
Aw. But please support the chief financial supporter of my beloved 3D engine.
:) Though they would make Duke Nukem "sexier" and more "muscular" to appeal the the gay guy. (Any news sites that dare quote me on that will receive flogging.)
Would it be worth it if I have been petitioning the Duke mappers to put in male homosexual strippers to appeal to the male homo market?
BTW, they won't listen.
Here goes both my +1 bonus, and all my karma, but someone's gotta say it.
/. is demeaning to women. And exaggerating differences that are eventually minimal. (Legitmate bioneural research debunked most of gender differences as within statistical norms.)
.... you know "news for nerds, stuff that matters" .... if you really want to help women, help this 1 woman nerd with her research and post some math and science!
/. is my favorite place, and the last sanctuary for "intellect" and "geekdom." There is no place else for me to go to get geek news besides here.
/. Hemos stop it already.
1. Women, female, homo sapiens with breasts, are not a different species. They all have their own minds to think for themselves what they like and don't like.
2. More "women like this, men like that" articles on a supposedly intelligent place like
3. 1 woman does not speak for >= 50% of world population. If so, I shall wield my woman power. "Hi. I am female. I know that all women in this world like hot grits poured down a petrified Natalie Portman." Give me karma now. I said I am female and I posted something.
4. The same fallacy is "This is from woman site." "This is written by a woman." This is / must be what all women think.
5. Any time you post an item like this, you are interviewing 1 fewer nuclear physicist, you are reporting on 1 few Open Source project, you are missing out on 1 new mathematical research on encryption
6. Woman? Game? I am a woman. I code for 3D Realms. Enough said about all your generalizations.
7. I want to use my woman telepathy power again. "Hi. I am female. I think all women think your writing this article instead of interviewing Bryce on how to get art and music and content for a free Open Source game offends our entire gender." All women want to share how to get content for games. Really.
8. I shall start the protest of more hard science, more hard math, more hard news, more coding information, more HW information. This is NOT Psychology Today.
9. I only protest strongly because
10. OTOH, if you know of geek inform sites free of this gender - dividing slant, please let me know.
*sigh* I know I am the minority (maybe the only human) in this. I know all you male geeks like this chick topics cuz it causes all the chicks to post. I know all the women like these articles for all the different reasons.
I look forward to the day (apparently really far in the future) when we are all just people.
Go flame. Go take away my karma. If this goes on long enough, I have to stop coming here anyway, so karma won't matter.
Here goes both my +1 bonus, and all my karma, but someone's gotta say it.
/. is demeaning to women. And exaggerating differences that are eventually minimal. (Legitmate bioneural research debunked most of gender differences as within statistical norms.)
.... you know "news for nerds, stuff that matters" .... if you really want to help women, help this 1 woman nerd with her research and post some math and science!
/. is my favorite place, and the last sanctuary for "intellect" and "geekdom." There is no place else for me to go to get geek news besides here.
/. Hemos stop it already.
1. Women, female, homo sapiens with breasts, are not a different species. They all have their own minds to think for themselves what they like and don't like.
2. More "women like this, men like that" articles on a supposedly intelligent place like
3. 1 woman does not speak for >= 50% of world population. If so, I shall wield my woman power. "Hi. I am female. I know that all women in this world like hot grits poured down a petrified Natalie Portman." Give me karma now. I said I am female and I posted something.
4. The same fallacy is "This is from woman site." "This is written by a woman." This is / must be what all women think.
5. Any time you post an item like this, you are interviewing 1 fewer nuclear physicist, you are reporting on 1 few Open Source project, you are missing out on 1 new mathematical research on encryption
6. Woman? Game? I am a woman. I code for 3D Realms. Enough said about all your generalizations.
7. I want to use my woman telepathy power again. "Hi. I am female. I think all women think your writing this article instead of interviewing Bryce on how to get art and music and content for a free Open Source game offends our entire gender." All women want to share how to get content for games. Really.
8. I shall start the protest of more hard science, more hard math, more hard news, more coding information, more HW information. This is NOT Psychology Today.
9. I only protest strongly because
10. OTOH, if you know of geek inform sites free of this gender - dividing slant, please let me know.
*sigh* I know I am the minority (maybe the only human) in this. I know all you male geeks like this chick topics cuz it causes all the chicks to post. I know all the women like these articles for all the different reasons.
I look forward to the day (apparently really far in the future) when we are all just people.
Go flame. Go take away my karma. If this goes on long enough, I have to stop coming here anyway, so karma won't matter.
I have been following your project for a while, and am genuinely impressed of a great job being done.
/. story, not only because it is OS, but that it distinguishes itself by demonstrating some useful solutions to the "artist/content problem" that many other OS gfx-related project can benefit from.
/. and ask to have your project be made news.
:) (Am I pessimistic, Hemos?)
:)
:) ) is stopping them, then it is content we should figure out how to solve. :)
Your project would make a great information OS
There were a short thread recently about how the home-made (i.e., non-big-game-corporation) games are dead. Because (supposedly) new games require the kind of content that cannot be obtained without a huge budget for art, et. al.
Your project dealt with this dilemma admirably.
Many potential home-made game developers can learn from your story.
Tell you what.
1. I will write Hemos
2. They'd probably ignore us.
3. If they do, we can talk about other non-/. ways where we can put you in touch with other home-made game makers (and potential contributors), and other ways to get get your project more well-known, okay?
4. If you don't mind I would like you to discuss and share your content development solutions to potential set tops hackers.
Next-Gen set tops have some great hacking potential lacking even in some next-gen PC HW accelerators. And I would love to see some great set top hacks along some creative inventions of pixel pipeline routes. If supposedly "content" (which I still disagree
I want to help. I think you can help many others. Let's talk off-line.