Neither do I. And a whole bunch of us. Katz told me in 1 email he was going to write something like this. I preemptively wrote him a rant saying exactly "We don't need special treatment and people to protect us!"
There is a danger to generalizing "intelligence == geek == arrogance/hostility."
It teaches young new women in computers to erroneously try to fit in by swearning, being rude, being crude, calling themselves a b*tch or sl*t, thinking erroneously that arrogance/hostility == geek == fitting in == intelligence.
Little do they know "real gurus" are the gentlest nicest people in the world.
Greater knowledge == less arrogance and hostility in our field.
We don't need to erroneously educate a bunch of young girls the way to be a geek girl is to be rude and cruel and mean to other people (or be sexually self-deprecating).
It is a stereotype darn it, and a very false one at that.
Hostility = F ( gender ), where F is a Merseine Twister.
(yes, the corollary is knowledge == 0 ability == 0 contribution == 0 people are infinitely hostile.)
There is much greater correspondence to stupidity and inability to hostility than gender. ( or Gender and hostility are orthogonal variables )
The smartest most capable coders are all very sharing and very humble.
The "knowing only a little is a dangerous thing" (I guess it is dangerous since when their knowledge is min-float-representation their hostility reaches NAN with insufficient precision) people are the most hostile people.
One can invariable guess the smartness of a coder by his lack of arrogant hostility towards others.
Q.E.D. Katz's generalization that geek (== knowledge, intelligence ) == hostile is false.
When geeks achieve true geekhood and guruhood, that increased knowledge and ability oversweeps their arrogance and turned them into warm fuzzy long-haired bearded "math or physics or computer science pioneers" who are quirky and friendly (this has been observed in their natural habitat).
It is that tadpole stage of temporary ignorance before the metamorphosis in which geeks demonstrate temporary hostility and arrogance to over-compensate for not being a true guru.
a guy goes to McDonald's everyday, and he notices someone he recognizes go there too.
He has been waiting a really long time for this guy to finish making his game (who is doing it from scratch all by himself for a little less than 1 year)... and man... why is it not done yet?
Then he notices something insightful.
He notices this coder doesn't take his McDonald's to go. He eats it there. He eats it slooowly. He does this for lunch and dinner everyday.
After enough days of this, the guy who wonders why the game takes so long to be done has had enough.
He walks up to the other guy and say,
"If I were your boss, I'd make McDonald's stop serving you your burgers."
:)
P.S. *sigh* If anyone is doing it for ego, one would splatter all my thoughtless meanderings at all those Adrenalin Vault interviews and that 1 Time interview and all the magazines interviews that I keep turning down. I would take lots of air-brushed photographs of myself and post them all over the place to go with them. *silly*
Instead, by trolling with a fun math or little post here and there, I get to meet and make nifty MIT math grad students that I can bounce ideas off to and make my life overall more enjoyable by gathering more geeks with similar interests around me.
It *is* unfair to *both* *male* and *white* to generalize that online (male?) geek community is *more* hostile than all female one.
I have (and still am) mostly only involved in all male technology on-line circles.
My most informative, favorite group of off- and on-line friends are ALL male, ALL white, ALL geek,(ALL 3D game engine coders).
Sure they are smart. Sure they are informative.
They are also the nicest, friendliest, sweetest (and non-phony) people I know.
// hostile women groups
The worst flames I got were not from all white male tech communities.
They are "anti-code god" rants from women.
// code god respect
If I or someone else post some great hack, or some really cool code, or some useful math answers, to all white male geek communities, one gets profuse and genuine respect/thanks.
It is not a short curt "oh, thanks, it works."
More a "Wow! This is great. This is a brilliant idea. This is a great hack. I like this. I don't like this. This can be better this way. This is really cool. I didn't think of this. You are a code god!"
A great hack gets its praises sung for days on end with white male geek communities.
If you post the same code to a woman group, you get a cold curt "yeah, it works, thanks, whatever."
Not a single dissection on how brilliant the code is, or how great the hack is.
There is a lot more proper and profuse respect, aspiration to (and sometimes worship) to code god hood in white male communities.
We in the "white male geek community" does a lot of appreciation, dissection, and criticism of each other's work.
Many all-female communities don't do it as much.
// males appreciate more than all-women-groups
More white males are more appreciative and eager newbies than most women and girls I get to encounter.
A guy cares about the quality of my code, all the effort I sit there to rearrange instructions, all the time I scribble on the paper (or fire up Mathematica to cheat:) ) to rearrange variables and multiplications... more white males appreciate this stuff.
It is not a short "Oh, great it works."
It's like "man, I had some time this weekend and I dig into your code, and man I love this, I love that, and I love this."
// respect from men, respect from women
Gaining respect from white male geeks are easier and make a lot more sense than from women.
All I have to do with the guys is to write good code, is to keep learning and get better.
From women, if I do that, they don't really give a crap how good I am, or whether I am good.
For guys, they care a lot how good I am, and whether I am good. All I have to do is be good, and guys will respect me.
For a lot of women, I can be 10 times smarter than I am now, they wouldn't care less.
If I told my white male geek friends I added volumetric lighting in one hour, they'd be super appreicative and supportive.
If I told all female communities, even computer-literate ones, I did that. They would be like, whatever. They couldn't care less. I couldn't earn kudos points for doing amazing things with all female communities.
So, again, white male geek communities have been more supportive.
P.S. Heh, and if you know of a "woman tech group" that is not only high tech information ratio, but has a "great math, great code, intelligence worshiping trend to it", let me know. I went to a few, and there is way too little appreciation of brilliant math, code, hack, than in their all male counterparts.
P.P.S. Please don't resp. post or flame that "these are not all-male communities" since you are in it. Fine, they are all male white communities + Corrinne. Are you happy now?:)
Yup, it is funny geek generalization is white and white. I am female. And Asian.
// minority rant
I dread every time *any* minority or clique is a subject of *any* article.
Just be glad/. doesn't run A LOT of of OT news on:
1. Why are there so few blacks in technology? 2. How can we get more blacks in technology? 3. Blacks are fundamentally different from "normal people geeks" and need to "have a special way to present technology to them" so more of them will be here. 4. How can we date those blacks in technology? I have "some great insights" on how to make blacks dig me, let me share. 5. Blacks have some "fundamental understanding" on themselves on how to get "all blacks exactly like them" interested in technology. 6. Black people's brains are different / smaller. They are better at this and worse at that. That is why blacks are inherently less suited for math, tech, and computers. 7. One black man can speak for ALL the black men on what they like, what they don't like, and what is offensive to them. 8. Whoa! I am black! I know a little bit of computers or tech! I play computer games! I am so special! (After all, everybody knows blacks can't code and chew gum at the same time! If a black man can play computer games, that is a major achievement!) Let me appear in a magazine! You should all think I am cool and I rock because I am black and use computers! 9. You are black and you are good math and computer stuff. I don't think you are really black. You must be a white guy pretending to be black. Or you really suck, not like real white geeks who don't suck. 10. Man, I am black and I hate you. You think you are so special because you are good at math and computers. Well, I am just as special, but in a "different" "black" "non-anal-left-brain" way. Let me keep bugging you to prove to you why I am not inferior to you.
// sorry
1. Didn't mean to be offensive to you or blacks, just ranting.:(
2. Just be glad you are not black and female at the same time.:)
On-line provides greater technology to develop protection against inherent offensiveness in ALL communication, if so desired.
On-line, one can write scripts (Perl or otherwise) to automatically filter out much of offensive or noisy communication. In non-virtual communication, there is no off button to the jerk who cuts you off the freeway and flips you the finger.
Spam got so bad that I code auto email filters based on sender, based on subject heading keywords, based on text context keywords, and slot them into various folders (some of them also auto delete:) ). That is why I reside in the "virtual communication" world and not the real world.If you had watched "Lain: Serial Experiments", I am Lain, though I am not god.:)
There is no automation nor filters in the real world. Imagine how wonderful life can be if you can code filters for RL. Not to say all the programs and scripts I can code to automate organize my desk and office. And "garbage collection.":) Nano-robotics, I want it now!)
// noise worse than offensiveness
The biggest problem with ALL communication (on- and off-line) is not offensiveness. It is low signal to noise ratio. Completely demonstrative of the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics. This is easier detected (and thus filtered) on-line because you can -grep "hot grits".
Inverse grep is antidote from noise.
// Filter principles applied in RL for greater signal ratio
In RL, you have to resort to the primitive algorithm of "friends" (data ID'ed by source sender) to filter. And when your "friends" are unreliable in their signal ratio, you are out of luck.
The more "emotionally gifted" individuals can adapt to a more optimal refinement algorithm over source to also "state" of source (i.e., whether "friends" will be rambling, or "friends" will be informative). Unfortunately, we cannot download such optimal filters from these gifted individuals.
In on-line world, we can GPL such filters.
// conclusion
Isn't the on-line world so much better than RL? I need an exit!
2 of my junior high best friends (and kick a** math students) were 2 other girls.
They were (are) smart. We would get the highest grades.
Then something sad and tragic happens to my 2 girlfriends around 6th to 7th grades.
They start being interested being a girl, which unbeknownst to me (since I was and am socially inept and oblivious) means hide that you are good at or are interested in math and computers, or that as girl that you are good at anything at all.
The important thing is for other girls to like you, for you to dress nice, and for many boys to like you... and part of being that is not to be wierdly super genius at math.
That's what I mean by hit them young before they got brainwashed.
I *watched* my 2 girlfriends got brainwashed (they are still nice people, and still sweet).
High school tried hard to brainwash me, trust me.:) Peer pressure tried to bludgeon me over the head that being totally into math and computers, taking math classes at college , massively screwing up the curves in AP physics and calculus for all the senior boys... all of these things mean you are a freak if you are a girl doing it, at least it means you are a "brain" and not a "beauty/hotty."
(N.B. There is a "smart" threshold for girl high school popularity. It is OK (and important to popularity) to be reasonably smart, like join the honor society, be "computer literal", be a "cool chick.
But it is NOT OK to be THE SMARTEST chick/person who is several times over the head of the next smartest guy in the whole school. i.e, OK to be the valedictorian, but not OK if most of the AP calculus students are seniors, and you are in graduate math in 9th grade and writing papers.)
This prejudice is so strange.
(Given that when I was being super nerd at high school for being great at math and physics, I was actually making cash professionally as a photography model... yet this same person who can be a model is also a "freak" on the basis she is a nerd.)
Fortunately for me, I very much enjoy being a freak.
I love hanging around our small group of AD&D guys (all guys except me) who were tormented by the jocks, et. al. They are "real" people, and I am glad I have friendships with "real" and "intelligent" people... popularity meant 0 to me (very obvious to my high school mates:) ).
enough ranting now.
so, no, a lot of them dropped out.
Because society was cruel enough to tell a lot of other GIRLS (and even boys) computers are not for them.
I was one of the early Apple 2 beneficiary to elementary and junior high schools.
If it was not for Apple founders' foresight and generosity, I would not have had access (however great my desire) to coding and programming computers as early as I had wanted.
This one random act of kindness changed my (and probably many others') life and where it went from then on.
// Apple loyalty
It did work and it didn't.
In my case, I stood staunchly steadfast against DOS-tel (yup, that long ago:) ). (Windows? What Windows?)
There were 2 circumstances that forced my hand very reluctantly away from my beloved Apples.
a. Macintosh betrayal
To me the creation of Mac-line (Lisa) itself, and then Apple's favoritism to Mac and abandonment of my beloved Apple 2-line (Apple 2 gs is ADORABLE!) hits me like a dagger to a naive child's heart.
How could they abandon the simplicity of command line, the "hackability" of a machine you keep fiddling the internals with into this icky GOOEY dummy-proof box that discourage you from playing with it?
Apple 2's have a LOT of room to grow. Dummy-proof-ing and pretty-fy-ing it was not what I was thinking.
Apple 2 gs was a good and right direction. (ah I can program sound cards, I have more graphics programming options, yeah, etc.)
Then the double betrayal of giving up on us loyal Apple-2-ers to support the new-fangled Mac-line, that was too much.
b. $ and survival
After a while, there is absolutely no (not even minimal wage) income to be made in Apple 2... compared to DOStel.
So I sourly crammed in DOS knowledge and Intel processor knoweldge (was surprised how similar things are)... and became professional DOS-tel programmer.
Was "conformed" even before the Windows OS.
c. could they have won?
I don't know about the entire population, but I knew I would had stuck with the Apple 2 line if Apple itself would had stuck with it and not made the dreadful Macintosh thing.
Even if it meant poverty and unemployment (in coding field, I will just do it on the side).
But then I guess my life would had turned out very differently then.
// digression
BTW, teachers were no help. It was a funny situation. One day a bunch Apple 2 showed up. No one knew what to do with them. I just turned them on, fiddled around.
Still no teachers knew what to do, but I started to teach myself everything, how to code it, connecting them together. (HW-wise the Apple 2's were very hackable.)
The teachers started to ask me questions on them, and started to ask me to make use for them.
I started to code grade book programs, automatic letter to parent generation programs.
My elemenatry-junior high school started to pay me minimum wage (my first PROFESSIONAL programming job!) to do computer coding work.
I wrote up curriculum, wrote (supposedly) educational games, taught students and teachers, while having access to a whole bunch of Apples at one time.
Some teachers started to think I knew about this computer thing from another country, but I only started learning while in America at the school!
I learned a new language English at the same time I learned Apple BASIC, and then Apple assembly. So yes, I have been speaking assembly for as long as I have spoken English.
It was empowering to have the confidence to be the smartest computer person (to be so young and be treated to "guru-hood":) in a school of all computer illiterates of course:) ) in a small pond like this.
The educational Apple games I wrote for the teachers were hilarious!
One was "supposed" to teach math. What it does is it asks a simple + - * / arithmetic question. If you answer 1 right, you get to play to short Space Invader like game.
Basically the gaming sections are much longer than the "educational" content... they let me anyway, since they couldn't find and buy any educational (or otherwise:) ) Apple software at all... they were at my mercy... HA HA HA!
I wrote an Apple HGR program of a girl friend who talks to me, in both HGR graphics, and also in text.
I had so many fond memories. It gave me so much positive experience growing up with computers.
It is completely unimportant for any teachers to know anything about the computers.
When Apple donated a bunch of Apple 2's to my elementary-junior high school, not a single person knew what to do with them.
I just started fiddling around (children are great for doing that), taught everything myself, and the school started to pay me for software I wrote for them.
I was one of the early Apple 2 beneficiary to elementary and junior high schools.
If it was not for Apple founders' foresight and generosity, I would not have had access (however great my desire) to coding and programming computers as early as I had wanted.
This one random act of kindness changed my (and probably many others') life and where it went from then on.
// Apple loyalty
It did work and it didn't.
In my case, I stood staunchly steadfast against DOS-tel (yup, that long ago:) ). (Windows? What Windows?)
There were 2 circumstances that forced my hand very reluctantly away from my beloved Apples.
a. Macintosh betrayal
To me the creation of Mac-line (Lisa) itself, and then Apple's favoritism to Mac and abandonment of my beloved Apple 2-line (Apple 2 gs is ADORABLE!) hits me like a dagger to a naive child's heart.
How could they abandon the simplicity of command line, the "hackability" of a machine you keep fiddling the internals with into this icky GOOEY dummy-proof box that discourage you from playing with it?
Apple 2's have a LOT of room to grow. Dummy-proof-ing and pretty-fy-ing it was not what I was thinking.
Apple 2 gs was a good and right direction. (ah I can program sound cards, I have more graphics programming options, yeah, etc.)
Then the double betrayal of giving up on us loyal Apple-2-ers to support the new-fangled Mac-line, that was too much.
b. $ and survival
After a while, there is absolutely no (not even minimal wage) income to be made in Apple 2... compared to DOStel.
So I sourly crammed in DOS knowledge and Intel processor knoweldge (was surprised how similar things are)... and became professional DOS-tel programmer.
Was "conformed" even before the Windows OS.
c. could they have won?
I don't know about the entire population, but I knew I would had stuck with the Apple 2 line if Apple itself would had stuck with it and not made the dreadful Macintosh thing.
Even if it meant poverty and unemployment (in coding field, I will just do it on the side).
But then I guess my life would had turned out very differently then.
// digression
BTW, teachers were no help. It was a funny situation. One day a bunch Apple 2 showed up. No one knew what to do with them. I just turned them on, fiddled around.
Still no teachers knew what to do, but I started to teach myself everything, how to code it, connecting them together. (HW-wise the Apple 2's were very hackable.)
The teachers started to ask me questions on them, and started to ask me to make use for them.
I started to code grade book programs, automatic letter to parent generation programs.
My elemenatry-junior high school started to pay me minimum wage (my first PROFESSIONAL programming job!) to do computer coding work.
I wrote up curriculum, wrote (supposedly) educational games, taught students and teachers, while having access to a whole bunch of Apples at one time.
Some teachers started to think I knew about this computer thing from another country, but I only started learning while in America at the school!
I learned a new language English at the same time I learned Apple BASIC, and then Apple assembly. So yes, I have been speaking assembly for as long as I have spoken English.
It was empowering to have the confidence to be the smartest computer person (to be so young and be treated to "guru-hood":) in a school of all computer illiterates of course:) ) in a small pond like this.
The educational Apple games I wrote for the teachers were hilarious!
One was "supposed" to teach math. What it does is it asks a simple + - * / arithmetic question. If you answer 1 right, you get to play to short Space Invader like game.
Basically the gaming sections are much longer than the "educational" content... they let me anyway, since they couldn't find and buy any educational (or otherwise:) ) Apple software at all... they were at my mercy... HA HA HA!
I wrote an Apple HGR program of a girl friend who talks to me, in both HGR graphics, and also in text.
I had so many fond memories. It gave me so much positive experience growing up with computers.
The sad thing is the average Japanese geek get to see something like Lain on TV!
When was the last time geeks are this respected on America common media? You mean the MTV real-life "hacker" guy?:)
Hollywood should take a (geek) clue from Japan / Asia / Hong Kong, and not just ripping off the cool parts and bestowing them "cool" or "Caucasian" people.
There is a thread going on about "good Geek movies" and it is pathetic people bow to the (plagiarizing) gods of tarantino, et. al.
Many complained all geek movies are insulting... that's because they are not *asian* (It is a state of mind, though I am fortunate to be 100% pure Asian:) ).
Help me/(us is exaggeration, I think there is like 2 of us?) petition to make Geeks MORE like LAIN, less like The Net or some other Hollywood equivalent.
While poor geeks suffer through dregs like "The Net"... man there is Lain
Older-wise, there is Ghost in the Shell.
There are good movies, and even TV-series about geeks, computers, on-line cultures, geekdom, that is actually good and thoughtful.
And for all The Matrix fans out there... I had watched the Hong Kong (original) they ripped off of... lucky me.
Jet Li would make a better geek (Jet Li *is* a geek, have you seen him or read his writing?) than Keanu Reeves.
Enough of rant.
P.S. If you are Lain fan, do you know where I can buy that BAO soundtrack. I love the girl intro song (though I didn't like guy singing ending song).
The fact that there are (TV series for chrissakes!) like Lain, that there are movies like Ghost in the Shell.
Show that it is POSSIBLE for movies about geeks and computer culture without that "The Net" insulting crap...
so why don't Hollywood pick up some *movie* and *TV-series* making skillz from Asia... and make a real Geek/computer movie?
Like some posters here said, yes Hackers is fun... but man, Lain and Ghost in the Shell is *real quality* and *real thoughtfulness*.
Lain (as a character) is totally a *real* computer user. She is female, without the "Hollywood" treatment of making a big deal (in fact a LOT of Lain characters of computer on-line users are female) about it.
It is "normal." She is not and doesn't have to be a sex pin-up girl.
And that's just the beginning.
Thought the computers and "interface" is a little advanced compared to our boxes, a lot of the concepts are sound and thoughtful.
Sorry for the rant.
But when will Hollywood REALLY learn from Asia instead of the occassional Taranatino ripping John Woo... thus the irony of all the posts here about Reservoir Geeks.
Reservoir Dogs IS a John Woo/Chow Yun Fat rip. In fact the John Woo/Chow Yun Fat original is better.
/stop ranting now.
If ASIAN movie makers make a movie about geeks, it would be a good movie. So get this Bender person to go overseas and hire some seasoned Asians.
(apologies to generalizations against Hollywood and "white" movies... if they make finally make something thoughtful about geeks and computer culture like Japan and Hong Kong then I can stop being prejudiced.)
Now if Geeks can be as intelligent as Lain, or Ghost in the Shell (though both are more sci-fi than reality in technology, the "concepts" are more realistic)...
Forget the fake American "Matrix"... you know most real geeks are Chinamen like me (sorry for racial slurs against round-eyes).:)
plot: The Matrix: Jet Li a smart though still kung-fu-a** kicking programmer for a big corporate software company wakes up one day and realize it is all a conspiratorial lie.
He meets sexy girl hacker cum high-kicking kung-fu expert Chingmy Yau (if you haven't seen "Naked Killer" you are missing out) who introduced him to...
... Morpheus -- I mean, Chow Yun Fat -- a wise though still major 2-gun-fighter-(man that Lara Croft rips him off)-cum-super-god of gambler doing some major acrobatic gun scenes. As well as super action gambling god scenes with casino equipment. Yes "Morpheus" is also God of Gamblers since he can modify time and space.
Typical of Jet Li and Chingmy Yau, super sexy Chingmy Yaw keeps throwing herself at Jet Li, while doing super sexy side splits and high kicks killing bad guys.
Typical of Jet Li beautiful smart action chicks fawn over him and he ignores them all to concentrate on the mission.
Michelle Yeoh has lots of major action scenes as another of Morpheus chicks (one in which she beats the crap out of a cameo of Pierce Brosnan would be awesome).
Come to think about it, for some reason, besides Jet Li, ALL of Morpheus's disciples are gun-fighting-action hacker chicks, all played by Michelle Yeoh, Anita Mui, Brigette Lin (she just HAS to be "Switch"... she'd make a good supernatural power command forces of the universe switch), Maggie Cheung, Moon Lee, Hsu Chi.
Yup, all action kung-fu hacker chicks. (i.e., most of the these Chinese/Asian actresses are a lot more convincing as hackers/are much more computer literate/than round-eye actresses anyway)
It will also reflect on geek "reality" since a lot of math and engineering females are Asian or Indian. (Isn't it funny in most movies where they do have a hacker/computer/engineering chick it is a round-eye and extremely seldom a racial minority, when in reality there is a lot of racial diversity --- OK, Asian --- in math/engineering/women geeks?)
In one of the virtual universe, Jet Li comes back as Wong Fei Hung, and all the rebels gather at Po Chi Lam.
Director: John Woo of course, action direction Yuon Woo Ping with Sammo Hung with Yuen Bao.
P.S. Don't complain to me about the *spelling* of my Hong Kong "bruthas". Their Anglized names are horrible translations of their Chinese names.
P.P.S. Why get the Tarantino that rips the original John Woo/Chow Yun Fat greats, when you can hire the original!
P.P.P.S. I know. By this point it has no resemblance to the book. But I'd much rather watch a John Woo/Chow Yun Fat/Jet Li flick than a *new* Tarantino flick.
P.P.P.P.S. Yes, I do like kung-fu *and* wushu (they are different). I do learn and practice it at home. Part of keeping my Chinese heritage.
P.P.P.P.P.S. Despite the amazing elegance of the acrobatics, especially in the older-pre-wire kung-fu movies, if you practice a lot, you *can* do a lot of Matrix like moves in real life without the help of movie special effects and cutting angles (like the help Keanu Reaves had to get that Jet Li can do without).
Slashdot Mirror
Ditto plus more.
Erroneous or out-dated documentation is even worse than no documentation.
Neither do I. And a whole bunch of us. Katz told me in 1 email he was going to write something like this. I preemptively wrote him a rant saying exactly "We don't need special treatment and people to protect us!"
There is a danger to generalizing "intelligence == geek == arrogance/hostility."
It teaches young new women in computers to erroneously try to fit in by swearning, being rude, being crude, calling themselves a b*tch or sl*t, thinking erroneously that arrogance/hostility == geek == fitting in == intelligence.
Little do they know "real gurus" are the gentlest nicest people in the world.
Greater knowledge == less arrogance and hostility in our field.
We don't need to erroneously educate a bunch of young girls the way to be a geek girl is to be rude and cruel and mean to other people (or be sexually self-deprecating).
It is a stereotype darn it, and a very false one at that.
P.S. kudos to another geek girl
More unfair to male and unfair to white people.
On-line hostility has been invariably shown from experience that:
Hostility = 1 / ( knowledge * ability * contribution )
Hostility = F ( gender ), where F is a Merseine Twister.
(yes, the corollary is knowledge == 0 ability == 0 contribution == 0 people are infinitely hostile.)
There is much greater correspondence to stupidity and inability to hostility than gender. ( or Gender and hostility are orthogonal variables )
The smartest most capable coders are all very sharing and very humble.
The "knowing only a little is a dangerous thing" (I guess it is dangerous since when their knowledge is min-float-representation their hostility reaches NAN with insufficient precision) people are the most hostile people.
One can invariable guess the smartness of a coder by his lack of arrogant hostility towards others.
Q.E.D. Katz's generalization that geek (== knowledge, intelligence ) == hostile is false.
When geeks achieve true geekhood and guruhood, that increased knowledge and ability oversweeps their arrogance and turned them into warm fuzzy long-haired bearded "math or physics or computer science pioneers" who are quirky and friendly (this has been observed in their natural habitat).
It is that tadpole stage of temporary ignorance before the metamorphosis in which geeks demonstrate temporary hostility and arrogance to over-compensate for not being a true guru.
They are angry because they are teething.
Ha! This is hilarious. This is akin to in RL ...
... and man ... why is it not done yet?
a guy goes to McDonald's everyday, and he notices someone he recognizes go there too.
He has been waiting a really long time for this guy to finish making his game (who is doing it from scratch all by himself for a little less than 1 year)
Then he notices something insightful.
He notices this coder doesn't take his McDonald's to go. He eats it there. He eats it slooowly. He does this for lunch and dinner everyday.
After enough days of this, the guy who wonders why the game takes so long to be done has had enough.
He walks up to the other guy and say,
"If I were your boss, I'd make McDonald's stop serving you your burgers."
:)
P.S. *sigh* If anyone is doing it for ego, one would splatter all my thoughtless meanderings at all those Adrenalin Vault interviews and that 1 Time interview and all the magazines interviews that I keep turning down. I would take lots of air-brushed photographs of myself and post them all over the place to go with them. *silly*
Instead, by trolling with a fun math or little post here and there, I get to meet and make nifty MIT math grad students that I can bounce ideas off to and make my life overall more enjoyable by gathering more geeks with similar interests around me.
Corrinne Yu
3D Game Engine Programmer
// unfair to male, unfair to white
:) ) to rearrange variables and multiplications ... more white males appreciate this stuff.
:)
It *is* unfair to *both* *male* and *white* to generalize that online (male?) geek community is *more* hostile than all female one.
I have (and still am) mostly only involved in all male technology on-line circles.
My most informative, favorite group of off- and on-line friends are ALL male, ALL white, ALL geek,(ALL 3D game engine coders).
Sure they are smart. Sure they are informative.
They are also the nicest, friendliest, sweetest (and non-phony) people I know.
// hostile women groups
The worst flames I got were not from all white male tech communities.
They are "anti-code god" rants from women.
// code god respect
If I or someone else post some great hack, or some really cool code, or some useful math answers, to all white male geek communities, one gets profuse and genuine respect/thanks.
It is not a short curt "oh, thanks, it works."
More a "Wow! This is great. This is a brilliant idea. This is a great hack. I like this. I don't like this. This can be better this way. This is really cool. I didn't think of this. You are a code god!"
A great hack gets its praises sung for days on end with white male geek communities.
If you post the same code to a woman group, you get a cold curt "yeah, it works, thanks, whatever."
Not a single dissection on how brilliant the code is, or how great the hack is.
There is a lot more proper and profuse respect, aspiration to (and sometimes worship) to code god hood in white male communities.
We in the "white male geek community" does a lot of appreciation, dissection, and criticism of each other's work.
Many all-female communities don't do it as much.
// males appreciate more than all-women-groups
More white males are more appreciative and eager newbies than most women and girls I get to encounter.
A guy cares about the quality of my code, all the effort I sit there to rearrange instructions, all the time I scribble on the paper (or fire up Mathematica to cheat
It is not a short "Oh, great it works."
It's like "man, I had some time this weekend and I dig into your code, and man I love this, I love that, and I love this."
// respect from men, respect from women
Gaining respect from white male geeks are easier and make a lot more sense than from women.
All I have to do with the guys is to write good code, is to keep learning and get better.
From women, if I do that, they don't really give a crap how good I am, or whether I am good.
For guys, they care a lot how good I am, and whether I am good. All I have to do is be good, and guys will respect me.
For a lot of women, I can be 10 times smarter than I am now, they wouldn't care less.
If I told my white male geek friends I added volumetric lighting in one hour, they'd be super appreicative and supportive.
If I told all female communities, even computer-literate ones, I did that. They would be like, whatever. They couldn't care less. I couldn't earn kudos points for doing amazing things with all female communities.
So, again, white male geek communities have been more supportive.
P.S. Heh, and if you know of a "woman tech group" that is not only high tech information ratio, but has a "great math, great code, intelligence worshiping trend to it", let me know. I went to a few, and there is way too little appreciation of brilliant math, code, hack, than in their all male counterparts.
P.P.S. Please don't resp. post or flame that "these are not all-male communities" since you are in it. Fine, they are all male white communities + Corrinne. Are you happy now?
OT your sig
:)
No.
Erotica costs more.
Porn is cheaper.
Or.
I think Arthur Miller wrote this.
Nude is deception.
Naked is honesty.
P.S. Is it me or is Porn better looking than Eroitica? i.e., Penthouse Pet better looking than Playboy Bunny. (and it goes on from there)
P.P.S. If anyone thinks I (or any other woman)speak for all women (== >0.5 of world population), he must believe strongly in telepathy.
Apologies to OT.
/. doesn't run A LOT of of OT news on:
:(
:)
Yup, it is funny geek generalization is white and white. I am female. And Asian.
// minority rant
I dread every time *any* minority or clique is a subject of *any* article.
Just be glad
1. Why are there so few blacks in technology?
2. How can we get more blacks in technology?
3. Blacks are fundamentally different from "normal people geeks" and need to "have a special way to present technology to them" so more of them will be here.
4. How can we date those blacks in technology? I have "some great insights" on how to make blacks dig me, let me share.
5. Blacks have some "fundamental understanding" on themselves on how to get "all blacks exactly like them" interested in technology.
6. Black people's brains are different / smaller. They are better at this and worse at that. That is why blacks are inherently less suited for math, tech, and computers.
7. One black man can speak for ALL the black men on what they like, what they don't like, and what is offensive to them.
8. Whoa! I am black! I know a little bit of computers or tech! I play computer games! I am so special! (After all, everybody knows blacks can't code and chew gum at the same time! If a black man can play computer games, that is a major achievement!) Let me appear in a magazine! You should all think I am cool and I rock because I am black and use computers!
9. You are black and you are good math and computer stuff. I don't think you are really black. You must be a white guy pretending to be black. Or you really suck, not like real white geeks who don't suck.
10. Man, I am black and I hate you. You think you are so special because you are good at math and computers. Well, I am just as special, but in a "different" "black" "non-anal-left-brain" way. Let me keep bugging you to prove to you why I am not inferior to you.
// sorry
1. Didn't mean to be offensive to you or blacks, just ranting.
2. Just be glad you are not black and female at the same time.
// filter is godsend to offense (and noise)
:) ). That is why I reside in the "virtual communication" world and not the real world.If you had watched "Lain: Serial Experiments", I am Lain, though I am not god. :)
:) Nano-robotics, I want it now!)
On-line provides greater technology to develop protection against inherent offensiveness in ALL communication, if so desired.
On-line, one can write scripts (Perl or otherwise) to automatically filter out much of offensive or noisy communication. In non-virtual communication, there is no off button to the jerk who cuts you off the freeway and flips you the finger.
Spam got so bad that I code auto email filters based on sender, based on subject heading keywords, based on text context keywords, and slot them into various folders (some of them also auto delete
There is no automation nor filters in the real world. Imagine how wonderful life can be if you can code filters for RL. Not to say all the programs and scripts I can code to automate organize my desk and office. And "garbage collection."
// noise worse than offensiveness
The biggest problem with ALL communication (on- and off-line) is not offensiveness. It is low signal to noise ratio. Completely demonstrative of the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics. This is easier detected (and thus filtered) on-line because you can -grep "hot grits".
Inverse grep is antidote from noise.
// Filter principles applied in RL for greater signal ratio
In RL, you have to resort to the primitive algorithm of "friends" (data ID'ed by source sender) to filter. And when your "friends" are unreliable in their signal ratio, you are out of luck.
The more "emotionally gifted" individuals can adapt to a more optimal refinement algorithm over source to also "state" of source (i.e., whether "friends" will be rambling, or "friends" will be informative). Unfortunately, we cannot download such optimal filters from these gifted individuals.
In on-line world, we can GPL such filters.
// conclusion
Isn't the on-line world so much better than RL? I need an exit!
OT apologies.
... and part of being that is not to be wierdly super genius at math.
:) Peer pressure tried to bludgeon me over the head that being totally into math and computers, taking math classes at college , massively screwing up the curves in AP physics and calculus for all the senior boys ... all of these things mean you are a freak if you are a girl doing it, at least it means you are a "brain" and not a "beauty/hotty."
... yet this same person who can be a model is also a "freak" on the basis she is a nerd.)
... popularity meant 0 to me (very obvious to my high school mates :) ).
This is what is sad.
2 of my junior high best friends (and kick a** math students) were 2 other girls.
They were (are) smart. We would get the highest grades.
Then something sad and tragic happens to my 2 girlfriends around 6th to 7th grades.
They start being interested being a girl, which unbeknownst to me (since I was and am socially inept and oblivious) means hide that you are good at or are interested in math and computers, or that as girl that you are good at anything at all.
The important thing is for other girls to like you, for you to dress nice, and for many boys to like you
That's what I mean by hit them young before they got brainwashed.
I *watched* my 2 girlfriends got brainwashed (they are still nice people, and still sweet).
High school tried hard to brainwash me, trust me.
(N.B. There is a "smart" threshold for girl high school popularity. It is OK (and important to popularity) to be reasonably smart, like join the honor society, be "computer literal", be a "cool chick.
But it is NOT OK to be THE SMARTEST chick/person who is several times over the head of the next smartest guy in the whole school. i.e, OK to be the valedictorian, but not OK if most of the AP calculus students are seniors, and you are in graduate math in 9th grade and writing papers.)
This prejudice is so strange.
(Given that when I was being super nerd at high school for being great at math and physics, I was actually making cash professionally as a photography model
Fortunately for me, I very much enjoy being a freak.
I love hanging around our small group of AD&D guys (all guys except me) who were tormented by the jocks, et. al. They are "real" people, and I am glad I have friendships with "real" and "intelligent" people
enough ranting now.
so, no, a lot of them dropped out.
Because society was cruel enough to tell a lot of other GIRLS (and even boys) computers are not for them.
They listened.
And I didn't.
Corrinne Yu
3D Game Engine Programmer
// deep thanks
:) ). (Windows? What Windows?)
... compared to DOStel.
... and became professional DOS-tel programmer.
:) in a school of all computer illiterates of course :) ) in a small pond like this.
... they let me anyway, since they couldn't find and buy any educational (or otherwise :) ) Apple software at all ... they were at my mercy ... HA HA HA!
I was one of the early Apple 2 beneficiary to elementary and junior high schools.
If it was not for Apple founders' foresight and generosity, I would not have had access (however great my desire) to coding and programming computers as early as I had wanted.
This one random act of kindness changed my (and probably many others') life and where it went from then on.
// Apple loyalty
It did work and it didn't.
In my case, I stood staunchly steadfast against DOS-tel (yup, that long ago
There were 2 circumstances that forced my hand very reluctantly away from my beloved Apples.
a. Macintosh betrayal
To me the creation of Mac-line (Lisa) itself, and then Apple's favoritism to Mac and abandonment of my beloved Apple 2-line (Apple 2 gs is ADORABLE!) hits me like a dagger to a naive child's heart.
How could they abandon the simplicity of command line, the "hackability" of a machine you keep fiddling the internals with into this icky GOOEY dummy-proof box that discourage you from playing with it?
Apple 2's have a LOT of room to grow. Dummy-proof-ing and pretty-fy-ing it was not what I was thinking.
Apple 2 gs was a good and right direction. (ah I can program sound cards, I have more graphics programming options, yeah, etc.)
Then the double betrayal of giving up on us loyal Apple-2-ers to support the new-fangled Mac-line, that was too much.
b. $ and survival
After a while, there is absolutely no (not even minimal wage) income to be made in Apple 2
So I sourly crammed in DOS knowledge and Intel processor knoweldge (was surprised how similar things are)
Was "conformed" even before the Windows OS.
c. could they have won?
I don't know about the entire population, but I knew I would had stuck with the Apple 2 line if Apple itself would had stuck with it and not made the dreadful Macintosh thing.
Even if it meant poverty and unemployment (in coding field, I will just do it on the side).
But then I guess my life would had turned out very differently then.
// digression
BTW, teachers were no help. It was a funny situation. One day a bunch Apple 2 showed up. No one knew what to do with them. I just turned them on, fiddled around.
Still no teachers knew what to do, but I started to teach myself everything, how to code it, connecting them together. (HW-wise the Apple 2's were very hackable.)
The teachers started to ask me questions on them, and started to ask me to make use for them.
I started to code grade book programs, automatic letter to parent generation programs.
My elemenatry-junior high school started to pay me minimum wage (my first PROFESSIONAL programming job!) to do computer coding work.
I wrote up curriculum, wrote (supposedly) educational games, taught students and teachers, while having access to a whole bunch of Apples at one time.
Some teachers started to think I knew about this computer thing from another country, but I only started learning while in America at the school!
I learned a new language English at the same time I learned Apple BASIC, and then Apple assembly. So yes, I have been speaking assembly for as long as I have spoken English.
It was empowering to have the confidence to be the smartest computer person (to be so young and be treated to "guru-hood"
The educational Apple games I wrote for the teachers were hilarious!
One was "supposed" to teach math. What it does is it asks a simple + - * / arithmetic question. If you answer 1 right, you get to play to short Space Invader like game.
Basically the gaming sections are much longer than the "educational" content
I wrote an Apple HGR program of a girl friend who talks to me, in both HGR graphics, and also in text.
I had so many fond memories. It gave me so much positive experience growing up with computers.
Did the "experiment" fail? Naw. Not in my case.
Thanks again to the wonderful Apple founders.
Corrinne Yu
3D Game Engine Programmer
It is completely unimportant for any teachers to know anything about the computers.
5 4221&threshold=-1&commentsort=0&mode=threa d&pid=86#207
:)
When Apple donated a bunch of Apple 2's to my elementary-junior high school, not a single person knew what to do with them.
I just started fiddling around (children are great for doing that), taught everything myself, and the school started to pay me for software I wrote for them.
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=00/01/14/13
Having computers at university is way too late, even high school is bad.
Extremely young children are free of prejudice and conception of failure, of gender, of doing right or doing wrong.
Get the computers and coding to them before the "wierd high school gotta be a cheerleader brainwashing thing" start to hit them.
I became a geek-nerd when way too young to know that it is supposedly bad to be a geek-nerd.
That's a good thing.
Corrinne Yu
3D Game Engine Programmer
// deep thanks
:) ). (Windows? What Windows?)
... compared to DOStel.
... and became professional DOS-tel programmer.
:) in a school of all computer illiterates of course :) ) in a small pond like this.
... they let me anyway, since they couldn't find and buy any educational (or otherwise :) ) Apple software at all ... they were at my mercy ... HA HA HA!
I was one of the early Apple 2 beneficiary to elementary and junior high schools.
If it was not for Apple founders' foresight and generosity, I would not have had access (however great my desire) to coding and programming computers as early as I had wanted.
This one random act of kindness changed my (and probably many others') life and where it went from then on.
// Apple loyalty
It did work and it didn't.
In my case, I stood staunchly steadfast against DOS-tel (yup, that long ago
There were 2 circumstances that forced my hand very reluctantly away from my beloved Apples.
a. Macintosh betrayal
To me the creation of Mac-line (Lisa) itself, and then Apple's favoritism to Mac and abandonment of my beloved Apple 2-line (Apple 2 gs is ADORABLE!) hits me like a dagger to a naive child's heart.
How could they abandon the simplicity of command line, the "hackability" of a machine you keep fiddling the internals with into this icky GOOEY dummy-proof box that discourage you from playing with it?
Apple 2's have a LOT of room to grow. Dummy-proof-ing and pretty-fy-ing it was not what I was thinking.
Apple 2 gs was a good and right direction. (ah I can program sound cards, I have more graphics programming options, yeah, etc.)
Then the double betrayal of giving up on us loyal Apple-2-ers to support the new-fangled Mac-line, that was too much.
b. $ and survival
After a while, there is absolutely no (not even minimal wage) income to be made in Apple 2
So I sourly crammed in DOS knowledge and Intel processor knoweldge (was surprised how similar things are)
Was "conformed" even before the Windows OS.
c. could they have won?
I don't know about the entire population, but I knew I would had stuck with the Apple 2 line if Apple itself would had stuck with it and not made the dreadful Macintosh thing.
Even if it meant poverty and unemployment (in coding field, I will just do it on the side).
But then I guess my life would had turned out very differently then.
// digression
BTW, teachers were no help. It was a funny situation. One day a bunch Apple 2 showed up. No one knew what to do with them. I just turned them on, fiddled around.
Still no teachers knew what to do, but I started to teach myself everything, how to code it, connecting them together. (HW-wise the Apple 2's were very hackable.)
The teachers started to ask me questions on them, and started to ask me to make use for them.
I started to code grade book programs, automatic letter to parent generation programs.
My elemenatry-junior high school started to pay me minimum wage (my first PROFESSIONAL programming job!) to do computer coding work.
I wrote up curriculum, wrote (supposedly) educational games, taught students and teachers, while having access to a whole bunch of Apples at one time.
Some teachers started to think I knew about this computer thing from another country, but I only started learning while in America at the school!
I learned a new language English at the same time I learned Apple BASIC, and then Apple assembly. So yes, I have been speaking assembly for as long as I have spoken English.
It was empowering to have the confidence to be the smartest computer person (to be so young and be treated to "guru-hood"
The educational Apple games I wrote for the teachers were hilarious!
One was "supposed" to teach math. What it does is it asks a simple + - * / arithmetic question. If you answer 1 right, you get to play to short Space Invader like game.
Basically the gaming sections are much longer than the "educational" content
I wrote an Apple HGR program of a girl friend who talks to me, in both HGR graphics, and also in text.
I had so many fond memories. It gave me so much positive experience growing up with computers.
Did the "experiment" fail? Naw. Not in my case.
Thanks again to the wonderful Apple founders.
Corrinne Yu
3D Game Engine Programmer
way OT now
:)
The sad thing is the average Japanese geek get to see something like Lain on TV!
When was the last time geeks are this respected on America common media? You mean the MTV real-life "hacker" guy?
Hollywood should take a (geek) clue from Japan / Asia / Hong Kong, and not just ripping off the cool parts and bestowing them "cool" or "Caucasian" people.
Corrinne Yu
3D Game Engine Programmer
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=00/01/14/10725 1&threshold=1&commentsort=0&mode=thread& pid=122#142
... that's because they are not *asian* (It is a state of mind, though I am fortunate to be 100% pure Asian :) ).
... man there is Lain
... I had watched the Hong Kong (original) they ripped off of ... lucky me.
There is a thread going on about "good Geek movies" and it is pathetic people bow to the (plagiarizing) gods of tarantino, et. al.
Many complained all geek movies are insulting
Help me/(us is exaggeration, I think there is like 2 of us?) petition to make Geeks MORE like LAIN, less like The Net or some other Hollywood equivalent.
While poor geeks suffer through dregs like "The Net"
Older-wise, there is Ghost in the Shell.
There are good movies, and even TV-series about geeks, computers, on-line cultures, geekdom, that is actually good and thoughtful.
And for all The Matrix fans out there
Jet Li would make a better geek (Jet Li *is* a geek, have you seen him or read his writing?) than Keanu Reeves.
Enough of rant.
P.S. If you are Lain fan, do you know where I can buy that BAO soundtrack. I love the girl intro song (though I didn't like guy singing ending song).
LAIN ROX!!
Corrinne Yu
3D Game Engine Programmer
The fact that there are (TV series for chrissakes!) like Lain, that there are movies like Ghost in the Shell.
Show that it is POSSIBLE for movies about geeks and computer culture without that "The Net" insulting crap
so why don't Hollywood pick up some *movie* and *TV-series* making skillz from Asia
Like some posters here said, yes Hackers is fun
Lain (as a character) is totally a *real* computer user. She is female, without the "Hollywood" treatment of making a big deal (in fact a LOT of Lain characters of computer on-line users are female) about it.
It is "normal." She is not and doesn't have to be a sex pin-up girl.
And that's just the beginning.
Thought the computers and "interface" is a little advanced compared to our boxes, a lot of the concepts are sound and thoughtful.
Sorry for the rant.
But when will Hollywood REALLY learn from Asia instead of the occassional Taranatino ripping John Woo
Reservoir Dogs IS a John Woo/Chow Yun Fat rip. In fact the John Woo/Chow Yun Fat original is better.
/stop ranting now.
If ASIAN movie makers make a movie about geeks, it would be a good movie. So get this Bender person to go overseas and hire some seasoned Asians.
(apologies to generalizations against Hollywood and "white" movies
Corrinne Yu
3D Game Engine Programmer
How about /. as "MTV Real World"?
Corrinne Yu
3D Game Engine Programmer
Even better movie is the anime Lain.
Not as funny.
It would be great of Geeks the movie can be as good and thoughtful as Lain, or even the anime Ghost in the Shell.
Corrinne Yu
3D Game Engine Programmer
The MST2K crew, Tom Servo, et. al. can be the movie moderators.
Corrinne Yu
3D Game Engine Programmer
Where is the Natalie Portman troll?
And Mae Ling Mak troll?
(Home come there isn't a troll for Linus Torvald naked and petrified?)
Now they will be on-topic.
They would just be making suggestions to the John Katz movie casting.
Corrinne Yu
3D Game Engine Programmer
Geeks is already an anime: Lain.
...
Now if Geeks can be as intelligent as Lain, or Ghost in the Shell (though both are more sci-fi than reality in technology, the "concepts" are more realistic)
then it can be a good movie.
Corrinne Yu
3D Game Engine Programmer
Yes, please no ultra slow long dorky user interface and CG sequence showing the internet bright lights zooming into each other.
I gag every time I see that in movies.
Remeber Jurassic Park: "I know this. This is Unix."
Yup their "emergency" system is a 3D interface they have to navigate to shut down the darn thing. That is really smart.
Corrinne Yu
3D Game Engine Programmer
Angelina Jolie is buck ass naked in "Gia".
Unfortunately it is a movie about supermodel and not computers.
Fortunately, you can fast forward to all the parts she is naked. She looked really nice in that movie.
Yes, Geeks and any other movie must have Angelina Jolie in it in as little clothing as possible.
Corrinne Yu
3D Game Engine Programmer
OT: Geeks the Anime coming up
:(
I love math, I love computers, I code, I practice kung-fu, only movies I like are action movies, gun-fight movies, kung-fu movies, and anime.
I am a walking Asian stereotype.
SIGH
Corrinne Yu
3D Game Engine Programmer
Forget the fake American "Matrix" ... you know most real geeks are Chinamen like me (sorry for racial slurs against round-eyes). :)
...
... she'd make a good supernatural power command forces of the universe switch), Maggie Cheung, Moon Lee, Hsu Chi.
plot: The Matrix: Jet Li a smart though still kung-fu-a** kicking programmer for a big corporate software company wakes up one day and realize it is all a conspiratorial lie.
He meets sexy girl hacker cum high-kicking kung-fu expert Chingmy Yau (if you haven't seen "Naked Killer" you are missing out) who introduced him to
... Morpheus -- I mean, Chow Yun Fat -- a wise though still major 2-gun-fighter-(man that Lara Croft rips him off)-cum-super-god of gambler doing some major acrobatic gun scenes. As well as super action gambling god scenes with casino equipment. Yes "Morpheus" is also God of Gamblers since he can modify time and space.
Typical of Jet Li and Chingmy Yau, super sexy Chingmy Yaw keeps throwing herself at Jet Li, while doing super sexy side splits and high kicks killing bad guys.
Typical of Jet Li beautiful smart action chicks fawn over him and he ignores them all to concentrate on the mission.
Michelle Yeoh has lots of major action scenes as another of Morpheus chicks (one in which she beats the crap out of a cameo of Pierce Brosnan would be awesome).
Come to think about it, for some reason, besides Jet Li, ALL of Morpheus's disciples are gun-fighting-action hacker chicks, all played by Michelle Yeoh, Anita Mui, Brigette Lin (she just HAS to be "Switch"
Yup, all action kung-fu hacker chicks. (i.e., most of the these Chinese/Asian actresses are a lot more convincing as hackers/are much more computer literate/than round-eye actresses anyway)
It will also reflect on geek "reality" since a lot of math and engineering females are Asian or Indian. (Isn't it funny in most movies where they do have a hacker/computer/engineering chick it is a round-eye and extremely seldom a racial minority, when in reality there is a lot of racial diversity --- OK, Asian --- in math/engineering/women geeks?)
In one of the virtual universe, Jet Li comes back as Wong Fei Hung, and all the rebels gather at Po Chi Lam.
Director: John Woo of course, action direction Yuon Woo Ping with Sammo Hung with Yuen Bao.
P.S. Don't complain to me about the *spelling* of my Hong Kong "bruthas". Their Anglized names are horrible translations of their Chinese names.
P.P.S. Why get the Tarantino that rips the original John Woo/Chow Yun Fat greats, when you can hire the original!
P.P.P.S. I know. By this point it has no resemblance to the book. But I'd much rather watch a John Woo/Chow Yun Fat/Jet Li flick than a *new* Tarantino flick.
P.P.P.P.S. Yes, I do like kung-fu *and* wushu (they are different). I do learn and practice it at home. Part of keeping my Chinese heritage.
P.P.P.P.P.S. Despite the amazing elegance of the acrobatics, especially in the older-pre-wire kung-fu movies, if you practice a lot, you *can* do a lot of Matrix like moves in real life without the help of movie special effects and cutting angles (like the help Keanu Reaves had to get that Jet Li can do without).
Corrinne Yu
3D Game Engine Programmer
better idea for new Microsoft icon
5 0250&cid=41
Dr. Evil Ballmer
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=00/01/13/15
Corrinne Yu
3D Game Engine Programmer