>>So where is the line? There isn't anything preventing you from accessing those sites...as long as you're doing it at home. But if you're using a government computer, then you play by the government rules, no matter who you are. And if a person can't afford a computer, they should be thankful that they have access at all!
Well now ya get to the heart of the matter here. Government exists on a societal level not a moral level. The more a government creeps into morality then the less freedom's people have AND the more unrest.
And why should we give libraries computers? EDUCATION. more on that later.
Consider the time and MONEY spent on prosecutions of people who sell Porn. What damage does porn do? Yes I see the book by mariyln chambers and other documentaries. I also see many that totally contridict the issue. Hmmmmmm Why then should the government BAN these things? we spend Millions/Billions on legislating Morality that has nothing to do with society.
I hate many things. Yes, I am Hetersexual and Dislike Homosexuals and think it is bad. Are they hurting me? No. Why should the governmnet DO ANYTHING for or AGAINST the homoesexuals? That is a Moral thing. ie: Giving them extra rights or removing rights.
Time and again people speak: I don't want to fund abortion clinics. I don't want to fund The Arts. I don't want my money going here and there. Well, This is because the government GETS INTO our MORAL lives.
We should be helped by the government to enable us to make a decent living and contribute to society. This means HEALTH, This means EDUCATION. this does not mean subsidizing the Porn Industry or the Religious Industry.
Btw, My personal Opinion is that Religion should be exempt from Taxes. Since Religion typically is our Moral Centre. Seperation of Church and State is an Ideal. Seperation of Morality and Societal Needs is also an ideal. they can go hand in hand, but do not need to.
Or as my great-uncle would say: Get the hell outta my life, and I won't mess up your life.
>>but I don't think that the government ought to be subsidising the erotic arousal of others.
Nor should the government be preventing things. Consider that there are 2 types of law in this country.
1) Moral law - Law that people feel is right in thier bones. This may not affect the running of a government or society.
2) Society Law - Law that people need in order to live in a society.
These 2 laws are NOT THE SAME. Just because something is Immoral does not mean the government should make a LAW about it. If the government were to be our moral compass then we are in a sad state.
Here is something as an example: The goverment society laws say MURDER is illegal and most moral laws say MURDER is bad. Morality states (religious) that you should not KILL, turn other cheek etc, and yet the society has Death Penalties.
Another thing: Legalize marajuana? It may be IMMORAL to smoke it and stupid even, but it does not hurt society? This is an example of the government stepping in when it should not.
Abortion: Morally this is a HORRIBLE thing. In Roe V Wade the courts state that it is not for governments to REGULATE it. Another Moral Vs Society Laws.
A Library is a place where we are supposed to learn, even about SEX. It may be immoral in your opinion, but why make it a law? Except to cause the government to spend millions and billions to regulate MORALITY.
Take this further and check out the laws you use everyday. Remember, DO NOT say to others, DON'T do that, it could hurt you. THAT is a MORAL position most of the time.
I hate Cigarettes, they blow chunks. Morality states OUTLAW, society states limit.
nuff said.
btw, This was also mentioned (the legalize weed) on Ken Hamblin's Talk show.
The last answer was the most interesting. Banning a specific combination of assembly code.
Very interesting. Since we all have the source code by now, what if we recompiled it? Binary would be different if say we added an extra print statement. Would this invalidate MPAA and cause them to have to charge people for the new PlayDVDnow programs?
Btw, Now one asked the simple question: How does your parents feel about this??
It is a assumption to make that Geeks have to dislike physical sports. Football is my favorite sport because of the physical and mental nature. You must have never had played sports if you do not see the huge mental aspect of the game. If it was not for this darn computer Addiction of mine I may have been on the TV instead of watching it. I play all sorts of sports. I am even married and have a awesome daughter. Why do I say this? I say it because you sterotyped yourself as a loser. Basically, Sports is about winning and losing. Sports is about being able to conquer the competition.
Business is just a mental sport. Computers are mental sports arenas. Microsoft Vs The World is like Dallas Cowboys vs Redskins. A great battle and lots of twists and turns.
Sit back and enjoy the game. Don't be a sterotype and push Geeks/Nerds into your own little world.
Btw, The WWF rules, Stone Cold Kicks ASS. I want my Wrasslin Character to be "The Computer Geek" and go in and use a keyboard and bust it over peoples heads.
No? It is a lot of fun to watch New Jack bust a keyboard over a Baldies head. Lotsa fun to see the keys pop everywhere.
Recently. HECK Just the last week of December, someone got a hold of my Debit Card number.
They used it to purchase items from CDNOW. Thing is I never used my debit card during that time except to take out ATM money.
here is the kicker. CDNOW has the billing Address of the Card and IT DOES NOT MATCH the Debit Card's billing Address. This is Ridiculus that they ask for billing address and don't use that as a backup check.
My bank and cdnow are great though in that they shutdown the account and I will get my money back. It required a letter signed 3 times and some other issues. They are very helpful at working it out.
What have I learned? That anyone can use any number at any time to get CD's. The billing Address is not used, you can just input random combinations of numbers.
What if this person who used my card just flipped a number wrong from thier actual card??? the amount of purchases was not as you would expect. This could cause someone who makes an innocent mistake to Go down hard.
This is for everyone to learn from. Be careful what you do, and no matter what DON'T get more CC than you use, for someone can charge on them without even having them.
A few things, How many Years? I recall a lot more than 10-20. Also, here is the deal with that. He is much older, spent years worth of lawyers fee's and in the end he still got a fraction of what the patent really was worth.
The point is that you really cannot challenge The system, if you cannot afford too.
Recently, an aquaintance of mine, *who will go nameless for use as an example* has a patent on a product he makes. A larger company currently is producing the EXACT same thing.
He calls them, complains, they tell him to sue him and by the time he gets any money outta it, the product will be useless by then anyways.
The company flat out told him to sue, even though they KNEW they were in violation.
Patent's don't protect the small, they are only used so you can sell your invention to a larger company and at least make some money (less than what they would pay the lawyers).
Patent law is obviously in disrepair. Consider the Cold Fusion hoax. Without knowing the cold fusion was false, several friends initiated a "Patent" on the cold fusion. You know what? I bet they would have gotten it, but they dropped it when they found out it was crap.
There is one difference from Large Commercial Companies and GPL code.
This may be the fallacy of my thinking but I would think that people placing code in the public domain, or even GPL, wish for it to be Reused. The big companies have NO DESIRE or WISH for thier code to be reused. ( this maybe a bad analogy, but an orphanage would be morally right to help right?)
That is the difference that I see.
Question: Would GPL prevent me from getting paid to package a special SPECIFIC software package say to an orphanage and charge for the specific Mods that would only affect that orphanage? Consider that the mods may have to be protected as they reveal certain practices that are illegal to show the world.
Would this be considered a voilation of GPL? I think it would.
Stealing? Stealing what? Stealing the time and effort spent on the code? Why? If I release something to GPL they are STEALING my code. I can no longer use my OWN code to benefit myself in other packages I write.
Correct me if I am wrong, but once I GPL a product, all the code in that is GPL. That means if I wish to create a new product or enhance the existing product to make money(GOD FORBID), then I cannot use my own code. That is stealing too then.
Is taking the ideas of others, ie: Word processors and making them also stealing? Is reverse engineering Windows (WINE) also stealing? I have no love for Micro$oft but I am also not a Linux NaZi or a GPL NaZi. I am pointing out the errors in the thinking.
Btw, why would I complain that about the GPL if I want to STEAL something? Obviously, I am not wanting to steal something, I am wanting to use something useful.
Sometimes, People flame because they have no argument to back thier position. If you wish to debate me on the obvious pros and cons of GPL, I am willing to. I do not wish to get into an insult war with people.
So, I should stop writing stuff period for Public Domain? Basically, you are stating that I should not benefit from GPL when I can, because I want to benefit at a Job? Tit for Tat. I write code others can use at times, why can't I use it as well. I write code, fix bugs, and even have a large gaming community I support with MY JOB. If I lose MY JOB because everything is free then the free stuff I do as a Hobby goes away. Look at the ending to this story in the long run. Microsoft is gone, everyone uses Free Software. OpenSource. The programmers, Like myself, are then left out in the cold. Do you really think supporting products can support the large amount of programmers we have now? I never think this would happen in reality because there is always more to do than the Free Software community could provide at this point. However, it could serious AFFECT my family. Family comes first over any "ideal". I make the statement that I gain benefit more from PUBLIC DOMAIN software than from GPL software. Why is it STEALING? What are you talking about? STEALING code, when it is already sent out for free. Basically, to benefit MANKIND as a whole, Public Domain would do better. GPL is socialist. Public Domain is true Free Source. GPL basically states you cannot use this code in a capitalistic way. No one can make money off my work, not even me. This is true socialism. Suppose later on I wish to make money by taking my flagship product commercial. If I made it GPL, I could not do that. I would have to rewrite that code. If I released it Public Domain then my familiarity with the code would give me the ability to move ahead with that option.
Time and time again companies will use GPL code or products as enhancements to thier base product. They are not selling the GPL product directly nor are they changing it.
To me, the only true Open Source is Public Domain source code. GPL prevents companies from improving baselines with latest techniques. GPL prevents products from being released that would improve overall life.
I know it is hard to accept but I can only mess with OS products after work, because I need a job. It is terrible for me to have to reinvent the wheel just because it is GPL'd.
I envision a time where all source code would be release public domain so people could sell binary packages and the source code would be released say 1 year afterwards so others can deal.
OMIGOD, that is a real socialistic premise. I just want to make my job easier, and public domain software does, GPL does not.
As for enforcement, GPL states you can include items as long as you do not sell them. How can one prove that you sold a GPL piece of source in a overall package? ie: sell a software environment with gcc included. The company could always claim they sold thier custom products and not the gcc.
Slashdot Mirror
>>So where is the line? There isn't anything preventing you from accessing those sites...as long as you're doing it at home. But if you're using a government computer, then you play by the government rules, no matter who you are. And if a person can't afford a computer, they should be thankful that they have access at all!
Well now ya get to the heart of the matter here. Government exists on a societal level not a moral level. The more a government creeps into morality then the less freedom's people have AND the more unrest.
And why should we give libraries computers? EDUCATION. more on that later.
Consider the time and MONEY spent on prosecutions of people who sell Porn. What damage does porn do? Yes I see the book by mariyln chambers and other documentaries. I also see many that totally contridict the issue. Hmmmmmm Why then should the government BAN these things? we spend Millions/Billions on legislating Morality that has nothing to do with society.
I hate many things. Yes, I am Hetersexual and Dislike Homosexuals and think it is bad. Are they hurting me? No. Why should the governmnet DO ANYTHING for or AGAINST the homoesexuals? That is a Moral thing. ie: Giving them extra rights or removing rights.
Time and again people speak: I don't want to fund abortion clinics. I don't want to fund The Arts. I don't want my money going here and there.
Well, This is because the government GETS INTO our MORAL lives.
We should be helped by the government to enable us to make a decent living and contribute to society. This means HEALTH, This means EDUCATION. this does not mean subsidizing the Porn Industry or the Religious Industry.
Btw, My personal Opinion is that Religion should be exempt from Taxes. Since Religion typically is our Moral Centre. Seperation of Church and State is an Ideal. Seperation of Morality and Societal Needs is also an ideal. they can go hand in hand, but do not need to.
Or as my great-uncle would say: Get the hell outta my life, and I won't mess up your life.
>>but I don't think that the government ought to be subsidising the erotic arousal of others.
Nor should the government be preventing things. Consider that there are 2 types of law in this country.
1) Moral law - Law that people feel is right in thier bones. This may not affect the running of a government or society.
2) Society Law - Law that people need in order to live in a society.
These 2 laws are NOT THE SAME. Just because something is Immoral does not mean the government should make a LAW about it. If the government were to be our moral compass then we are in a sad state.
Here is something as an example: The goverment society laws say MURDER is illegal and most moral laws say MURDER is bad. Morality states (religious) that you should not KILL, turn other cheek etc, and yet the society has Death Penalties.
Another thing: Legalize marajuana? It may be IMMORAL to smoke it and stupid even, but it does not hurt society? This is an example of the government stepping in when it should not.
Abortion: Morally this is a HORRIBLE thing. In Roe V Wade the courts state that it is not for governments to REGULATE it. Another Moral Vs Society Laws.
A Library is a place where we are supposed to learn, even about SEX. It may be immoral in your opinion, but why make it a law? Except to cause the government to spend millions and billions to regulate MORALITY.
Take this further and check out the laws you use everyday. Remember, DO NOT say to others, DON'T do that, it could hurt you. THAT is a MORAL position most of the time.
I hate Cigarettes, they blow chunks. Morality states OUTLAW, society states limit.
nuff said.
btw, This was also mentioned (the legalize weed) on Ken Hamblin's Talk show.
Free Speech, Use it or Lose it.
The last answer was the most interesting. Banning a specific combination of assembly code.
Very interesting. Since we all have the source code by now, what if we recompiled it? Binary would be different if say we added an extra print statement. Would this invalidate MPAA and cause them to have to charge people for the new PlayDVDnow programs?
Btw, Now one asked the simple question: How does your parents feel about this??
16 years old is still a minor.
It is a assumption to make that Geeks have to dislike physical sports. Football is my favorite sport because of the physical and mental nature. You must have never had played sports if you do not see the huge mental aspect of the game. If it was not for this darn computer Addiction of mine I may have been on the TV instead of watching it. I play all sorts of sports. I am even married and have a awesome daughter.
Why do I say this? I say it because you sterotyped yourself as a loser. Basically, Sports is about winning and losing. Sports is about being able to conquer the competition.
Business is just a mental sport. Computers are mental sports arenas. Microsoft Vs The World is like Dallas Cowboys vs Redskins. A great battle and lots of twists and turns.
Sit back and enjoy the game. Don't be a sterotype and push Geeks/Nerds into your own little world.
Btw, The WWF rules, Stone Cold Kicks ASS. I want my Wrasslin Character to be "The Computer Geek" and go in and use a keyboard and bust it over peoples heads.
No? It is a lot of fun to watch New Jack bust a keyboard over a Baldies head. Lotsa fun to see the keys pop everywhere.
Sports, Wrasslin, and Computers. KickAss!!
In the end, what this thread has degraded to is this:
Not do we censor, but WHAT do we censor?
I still find it hard that my children cannot read "Huck Finn" in certain schools because it is banned.
The basic premise of Free Speech is that bad ideas will be SHOWN to be bad and dropped. Bad Ideas like multipage porn sites.
If you ever censor what I can see, I will not support a word you say, you then lose credibility.
Wonder why I will vote for someone who does not go with polls.
Recently. HECK Just the last week of December, someone got a hold of my Debit Card number.
They used it to purchase items from CDNOW. Thing is I never used my debit card during that time except to take out ATM money.
here is the kicker. CDNOW has the billing Address of the Card and IT DOES NOT MATCH the Debit Card's billing Address. This is Ridiculus that they ask for billing address and don't use that as a backup check.
My bank and cdnow are great though in that they shutdown the account and I will get my money back. It required a letter signed 3 times and some other issues. They are very helpful at working it out.
What have I learned? That anyone can use any number at any time to get CD's. The billing Address is not used, you can just input random combinations of numbers.
What if this person who used my card just flipped a number wrong from thier actual card??? the amount of purchases was not as you would expect. This could cause someone who makes an innocent mistake to Go down hard.
This is for everyone to learn from. Be careful what you do, and no matter what DON'T get more CC than you use, for someone can charge on them without even having them.
A few things,
How many Years? I recall a lot more than 10-20. Also, here is the deal with that. He is much older, spent years worth of lawyers fee's and in the end he still got a fraction of what the patent really was worth.
The point is that you really cannot challenge The system, if you cannot afford too.
Recently, an aquaintance of mine, *who will go nameless for use as an example* has a patent on a product he makes. A larger company currently is producing the EXACT same thing.
He calls them, complains, they tell him to sue him and by the time he gets any money outta it, the product will be useless by then anyways.
The company flat out told him to sue, even though they KNEW they were in violation.
Patent's don't protect the small, they are only used so you can sell your invention to a larger company and at least make some money (less than what they would pay the lawyers).
Patent law is obviously in disrepair. Consider the Cold Fusion hoax. Without knowing the cold fusion was false, several friends initiated a "Patent" on the cold fusion. You know what? I bet they would have gotten it, but they dropped it when they found out it was crap.
Welcome to big business.
There is one difference from Large Commercial Companies and GPL code.
This may be the fallacy of my thinking but I would think that people placing code in the public domain, or even GPL, wish for it to be Reused. The big companies have NO DESIRE or WISH for thier code to be reused. ( this maybe a bad analogy, but an orphanage would be morally right to help right?)
That is the difference that I see.
Question: Would GPL prevent me from getting paid to package a special SPECIFIC software package say to an orphanage and charge for the specific Mods that would only affect that orphanage? Consider that the mods may have to be protected as they reveal certain practices that are illegal to show the world.
Would this be considered a voilation of GPL? I think it would.
Stealing? Stealing what? Stealing the time and effort spent on the code? Why? If I release something to GPL they are STEALING my code. I can no longer use my OWN code to benefit myself in other packages I write.
Correct me if I am wrong, but once I GPL a product, all the code in that is GPL. That means if I wish to create a new product or enhance the existing product to make money(GOD FORBID), then I cannot use my own code. That is stealing too then.
Is taking the ideas of others, ie: Word processors and making them also stealing? Is reverse engineering Windows (WINE) also stealing?
I have no love for Micro$oft but I am also not a Linux NaZi or a GPL NaZi. I am pointing out the errors in the thinking.
Btw, why would I complain that about the GPL if I want to STEAL something? Obviously, I am not wanting to steal something, I am wanting to use something useful.
Sometimes, People flame because they have no argument to back thier position. If you wish to debate me on the obvious pros and cons of GPL, I am willing to. I do not wish to get into an insult war with people.
So, I should stop writing stuff period for Public Domain? Basically, you are stating that I should not benefit from GPL when I can, because I want to benefit at a Job? Tit for Tat. I write code others can use at times, why can't I use it as well. I write code, fix bugs, and even have a large gaming community I support with MY JOB. If I lose MY JOB because everything is free then the free stuff I do as a Hobby goes away. Look at the ending to this story in the long run. Microsoft is gone, everyone uses Free Software. OpenSource. The programmers, Like myself, are then left out in the cold. Do you really think supporting products can support the large amount of programmers we have now? I never think this would happen in reality because there is always more to do than the Free Software community could provide at this point. However, it could serious AFFECT my family. Family comes first over any "ideal". I make the statement that I gain benefit more from PUBLIC DOMAIN software than from GPL software. Why is it STEALING? What are you talking about? STEALING code, when it is already sent out for free. Basically, to benefit MANKIND as a whole, Public Domain would do better. GPL is socialist. Public Domain is true Free Source. GPL basically states you cannot use this code in a capitalistic way. No one can make money off my work, not even me. This is true socialism. Suppose later on I wish to make money by taking my flagship product commercial. If I made it GPL, I could not do that. I would have to rewrite that code. If I released it Public Domain then my familiarity with the code would give me the ability to move ahead with that option.
Time and time again companies will use GPL code or products as enhancements to thier base product. They are not selling the GPL product directly nor are they changing it.
To me, the only true Open Source is Public Domain source code. GPL prevents companies from improving baselines with latest techniques. GPL prevents products from being released that would improve overall life.
I know it is hard to accept but I can only mess with OS products after work, because I need a job. It is terrible for me to have to reinvent the wheel just because it is GPL'd.
I envision a time where all source code would be release public domain so people could sell binary packages and the source code would be released say 1 year afterwards so others can deal.
OMIGOD, that is a real socialistic premise. I just want to make my job easier, and public domain software does, GPL does not.
As for enforcement, GPL states you can include items as long as you do not sell them. How can one prove that you sold a GPL piece of source in a overall package? ie: sell a software environment with gcc included. The company could always claim they sold thier custom products and not the gcc.
NRE is what drives prices, not reused code.
That molecule memory a while back sounded awefully good as a new shift.