What does any of that have to do with the choices facing me? The choice as framed is between the FX-8350 and the i7-3770K. Thats the choice facing me based in this thread of replies that you decided to get involve in.
You are exhibiting exactly the behavior of a fanboy. You are flailing around the topic on wild tangents that do not pertain to the decision in front of me. The pertinent information is the cost and the performance. How great the Intel engineers are dont matter. How much higher or lower the clock speeds are don't matter. The physical size of the chips don't matter. What matters is what I get and for how much.
Maybe you didn't realize that you were being a fanboy.. but you were. You did everything *but* talk about what matters.
So Intel are presumably beating the snot out of AMD's margins, as the AMD chip is twice the size...
Typical fanboy knows a fact or two but doesnt know what he is talking about (transistor counts are about equal), and why would I care about AMD's margins anyways?
You seem to want to poke at AMD without considering what it means to you. I guess if you want to ignore the fact that you have to bend over and let Intel stick it right into you in order to "enjoy" an equally performing chip.. thats fine by me. Have fun paying more.. it makes you look really smart.. really.. it does.. paying more for the same performance is obviously a wise thing to do.
The audience is people that want the most performance they can get for their $140, and thats not the "I shopped around to find a great price on CPU's that have piled up in someones inventory" price.. thats the "I went to the place the most people trust" price.. The straight NewEgg introductory price for the FX-6300 Vishera is $139.99.
Agreed on the core count. I too have a 6-core Thuban and I would never go back to less.
Sure, when all I am doing is surfing the web then it doesnt matter, but most of the time that I am surfing the web I've got other processes going that are actively doing work.. on top of the browsing I frequently have netflix/hulu running, and either a big compile or a video encode is also sometimes taking place (in fact, when something really time consuming begins, I am *always* browsing the web during it)
The system remains highly responsive all the time, and I'm 100% certain that equally priced Intel chips are only 2 core at most and would never remain highly responsive. 6-core AMD chips can be found for $120 these days. Intel doesnt have a $120 part that competes with them. Intel fans make excuses about this, but thats the reality.
I would say that the non-overclocked 8350 beats a 3770K in "a few" multi-threaded benchmarks, usually by a small margin, while still losing by much much larger margins in many other multi-threaded benchmarks (in fact the Phoronix article barely has any lightly-threaded benchmarks in the mix at all).
Yes, thats what you would say, and the last thing you would do is mention that the 3770K costs a whopping 50% more than the FX-3850.
Obviously your fanboyism has clouded your ability to grasp the situation. The AMD chip which beats this Intel chip in "a few multi-threaded benchmarks" is doing it for significantly less cost.
If you really want to do a point-for-point comparison, and count up how many benchmark tests a CPU wins or loses by, then you need to note the cost as well, or whats the point of "point-for-point". At $200, the best Intel has to offer is the i5-3470, which the FX-8350 beats the snot out of.
My Dell Inspiron 8600 from years ago still lasts 8.5 hours on a charge, and with a power-sucking a 1920 x 1200 screen.
The bulk of the power isnt consumed by the number of pixels.. its consumed by the backlight. Want a high contrast ratio so you can see it in direct sunlight? Suffer a significantly reduced battery life.
You mean like how a new FX-8150 just keeps up with an i7 920 that was released 4 years ago?
FX-8150 $190
If you are spending $190 on a processor, you have two choices.. the FX-8150 or the i5-3330. There is absolutely no doubt that the FX-8150 beats the crap out of that particular i5. Intel has no competitor to the FX-8150 at its price point.
Why do you Intel fanboys always do faulty comparisons?
Everybody understands that scientists have to make a living, but what happens when the result of their sponsored studies are not in their employer's favor?
Indeed. This doesnt even have to be scientists cooking the books. With this type of science the conclusions are statistical in nature, which means if you run enough studies you will sooner or later get the results you want.
So all the sponsors of the studies have to do is bury the results that they dont like, and trumpet the results that they do like. All this while the science itself remain completely neutral. Now add in the fact that the scientists may in fact be cooking the books too, and trust in the system is looking pretty grim.
This is why all studies should be considered suspect if future funding levels depends on the outcome, and even more so if the funding sources arent independent.
You are a bigger idiot than I thought because you just relied on the premise that Foxconn has a labor shortage problem. Foxconn is the reason that other factories in China have labor shortage problems; everyone wants to work for Foxconn. Every day, thousands of people show up at Foxconn's Longhua recruitment center. Thats thousands per day you fucking moron.
You idiot, they are leaving subsistence farms, not schools. You have some bizzaro view of China that seems to incorporate convenient American visions. This is a country that sustained 10% GDP growth for more than several decades yet is still behind the western world in GDP per capita. Thats how poor they were. Thats how poor they still are. You get rich through production, not good intentions.
Riiight.... as soon as you learn the difference between poor and hopeless causes. We have this thing called a safety net here. Didn't someone tell you liberals that you were successful in implementing it?
You my lad will probably never grasp the idea that a brain needs to develop and needs to be fed with challenging ideas in order for it to reach a higher level of independence in later life.
..and you will never grasp the concept that whats good in your book doesnt mean shit to the Chinese people, that are striving for a better life through wealth creation.
You want them to be poor forever? Where exactly are those challenging ideas going to come from? The rice fields that they are fleeing where all they have is the tattered robes on their bodies?
Subsistence farming. Look it up you pompous windbag.
Make no mistake, homosexuals don't want to get married because of their faith in the institution of marriage. They want to get married for all of the special rights afforded to married people. This isnt about equality.. its about a new group of people wanting to also be treated special.. they want to be elite too.
It wasnt that long ago that the party divide was on fiscal issues, not social ones. It was the 60's and into the 70's that the transformation happened, the Democrats kicked out many of the social conservatives, and the Republicans kicked out many of the social liberals, and this was regardless of their fiscal stances. Now we have fiscal progressives running both parties.
Most of the time when people (mostly liberals) talk about economic imbalance, they point to some people being "poor", but not actually poor like you see in India but just relatively poor like you see here in America. Its a circular argument, and thats all it is. Without perfect equality, there will always be a class that is "lower" even if it means they have cell phones, eat fast food, and watch cable television before they go to sleep every night.
There have always be choices a person needs to make, trade-offs between one thing and another. By and large the poor in America choose between a better cell phone plan or a better channel lineup on their television. Thats not what I call a problem that needs federal or even local government involvement, yet the liberals act like the common choice our poor is making is between food or shelter, hot water or clothing. No, thats not the common choice in America, but thats the way the liberals acting.
This trend towards abstract "problems", something you can't just point to and say "see!" but instead are just "general feelings" is the real problem we face in America. Are we really solving "problems" that are, well, "sort of like a rose bush"... seriously? The absurdity of it is mind boggling. I know why its attractive, and thats because "general feelings" are easy to pervert. You speak of "wealth inequality" and some guy that wishes he had some more money for a beer thinks "yeah man, so true" even though thats precisely not what you are trying to get at, you've got him won over. Maybe you yourself were won over in this same sort of way.. if only you had enough money to build a new deck on your house... or buy a nicer car.. "us vs them"
In case you missed it, regular US currency has most of the same issues. It is not backed by anything, its value fluctuates dynamically with perception and it is traded and gains and loses value at others' whims.
One at a time,
"It is not backed by anything" - Wrong, it is backed by guns and prison cells. Legal tender for all debts public and private, or else they send men with guns to put you in prison. "its value fluctuates dynamically with perception" - Wrong, its value fluctuates with supply and demand. "it is traded and gains and loses value at others' whims" - Right, the whims of the GOV and FED, which manipulate supply using various methods. For instance, Obama struck a deal with the FED two weeks ago for the FED to issue another $40 billion per month in currency on top of the $45 billion per month it was already creating for the same purpose. This $85 billion per month represents about 10% inflation all by itself.
Slashdot Mirror
..blah blah blah..
What does any of that have to do with the choices facing me? The choice as framed is between the FX-8350 and the i7-3770K. Thats the choice facing me based in this thread of replies that you decided to get involve in.
You are exhibiting exactly the behavior of a fanboy. You are flailing around the topic on wild tangents that do not pertain to the decision in front of me. The pertinent information is the cost and the performance. How great the Intel engineers are dont matter. How much higher or lower the clock speeds are don't matter. The physical size of the chips don't matter. What matters is what I get and for how much.
Maybe you didn't realize that you were being a fanboy.. but you were. You did everything *but* talk about what matters.
So Intel are presumably beating the snot out of AMD's margins, as the AMD chip is twice the size...
Typical fanboy knows a fact or two but doesnt know what he is talking about (transistor counts are about equal), and why would I care about AMD's margins anyways?
You seem to want to poke at AMD without considering what it means to you. I guess if you want to ignore the fact that you have to bend over and let Intel stick it right into you in order to "enjoy" an equally performing chip.. thats fine by me. Have fun paying more.. it makes you look really smart.. really.. it does.. paying more for the same performance is obviously a wise thing to do.
What's the intended audience for Vishera
The audience is people that want the most performance they can get for their $140, and thats not the "I shopped around to find a great price on CPU's that have piled up in someones inventory" price.. thats the "I went to the place the most people trust" price.. The straight NewEgg introductory price for the FX-6300 Vishera is $139.99.
Agreed on the core count. I too have a 6-core Thuban and I would never go back to less.
Sure, when all I am doing is surfing the web then it doesnt matter, but most of the time that I am surfing the web I've got other processes going that are actively doing work.. on top of the browsing I frequently have netflix/hulu running, and either a big compile or a video encode is also sometimes taking place (in fact, when something really time consuming begins, I am *always* browsing the web during it)
The system remains highly responsive all the time, and I'm 100% certain that equally priced Intel chips are only 2 core at most and would never remain highly responsive. 6-core AMD chips can be found for $120 these days. Intel doesnt have a $120 part that competes with them. Intel fans make excuses about this, but thats the reality.
I would say that the non-overclocked 8350 beats a 3770K in "a few" multi-threaded benchmarks, usually by a small margin, while still losing by much much larger margins in many other multi-threaded benchmarks (in fact the Phoronix article barely has any lightly-threaded benchmarks in the mix at all).
Yes, thats what you would say, and the last thing you would do is mention that the 3770K costs a whopping 50% more than the FX-3850.
Obviously your fanboyism has clouded your ability to grasp the situation. The AMD chip which beats this Intel chip in "a few multi-threaded benchmarks" is doing it for significantly less cost.
If you really want to do a point-for-point comparison, and count up how many benchmark tests a CPU wins or loses by, then you need to note the cost as well, or whats the point of "point-for-point". At $200, the best Intel has to offer is the i5-3470, which the FX-8350 beats the snot out of.
blah blah blah.. you were wrong, tried desperately to save yourself, but instead dug a deeper hole. All the qualities of an idiot.
My Dell Inspiron 8600 from years ago still lasts 8.5 hours on a charge, and with a power-sucking a 1920 x 1200 screen.
The bulk of the power isnt consumed by the number of pixels.. its consumed by the backlight. Want a high contrast ratio so you can see it in direct sunlight? Suffer a significantly reduced battery life.
For example SONY BMG Music Entertainment v. Tenenbaum, Capitol Records v. Jammie Thomas-Rasset, ..
So, somewhere in the chain of passing out the requirement for, I assume, low cost translation, some "bright mind" had this idea.
I suspect that they probably contract out the work, and are not going to care because they already went with the lowest bidder.
Why doesn't this apply to cases brought by the **AA associations over copyright material controlled by others (e.g. recording corps)?
You mean like how a new FX-8150 just keeps up with an i7 920 that was released 4 years ago?
FX-8150 $190
If you are spending $190 on a processor, you have two choices.. the FX-8150 or the i5-3330. There is absolutely no doubt that the FX-8150 beats the crap out of that particular i5. Intel has no competitor to the FX-8150 at its price point.
Why do you Intel fanboys always do faulty comparisons?
Everybody understands that scientists have to make a living, but what happens when the result of their sponsored studies are not in their employer's favor?
Indeed. This doesnt even have to be scientists cooking the books. With this type of science the conclusions are statistical in nature, which means if you run enough studies you will sooner or later get the results you want.
So all the sponsors of the studies have to do is bury the results that they dont like, and trumpet the results that they do like. All this while the science itself remain completely neutral. Now add in the fact that the scientists may in fact be cooking the books too, and trust in the system is looking pretty grim.
This is why all studies should be considered suspect if future funding levels depends on the outcome, and even more so if the funding sources arent independent.
You are a bigger idiot than I thought because you just relied on the premise that Foxconn has a labor shortage problem. Foxconn is the reason that other factories in China have labor shortage problems; everyone wants to work for Foxconn. Every day, thousands of people show up at Foxconn's Longhua recruitment center. Thats thousands per day you fucking moron.
You idiot, they are leaving subsistence farms, not schools. You have some bizzaro view of China that seems to incorporate convenient American visions. This is a country that sustained 10% GDP growth for more than several decades yet is still behind the western world in GDP per capita. Thats how poor they were. Thats how poor they still are. You get rich through production, not good intentions.
How has the current (huge) financial inequality occurred?
It was always there in America.
Was it right, and if not, how do you address it?
Clearly you are missing the point. Its neither "right" nor "wrong." The idea that its one or the other is a fallacy.
You should learn more about the poor in America.
Riiight.... as soon as you learn the difference between poor and hopeless causes. We have this thing called a safety net here. Didn't someone tell you liberals that you were successful in implementing it?
You my lad will probably never grasp the idea that a brain needs to develop and needs to be fed with challenging ideas in order for it to reach a higher level of independence in later life.
You want them to be poor forever? Where exactly are those challenging ideas going to come from? The rice fields that they are fleeing where all they have is the tattered robes on their bodies?
Subsistence farming. Look it up you pompous windbag.
Oh? And what the fuck business is it of theirs?
It became their business when they decided that married people were special.
Make no mistake, homosexuals don't want to get married because of their faith in the institution of marriage. They want to get married for all of the special rights afforded to married people. This isnt about equality.. its about a new group of people wanting to also be treated special.. they want to be elite too.
Fuck the single people, am I right?
It wasnt that long ago that the party divide was on fiscal issues, not social ones. It was the 60's and into the 70's that the transformation happened, the Democrats kicked out many of the social conservatives, and the Republicans kicked out many of the social liberals, and this was regardless of their fiscal stances. Now we have fiscal progressives running both parties.
The amount of imbalance though can be unhealthy.
Citation needed. You don't just get to claim it.
... seriously? The absurdity of it is mind boggling. I know why its attractive, and thats because "general feelings" are easy to pervert. You speak of "wealth inequality" and some guy that wishes he had some more money for a beer thinks "yeah man, so true" even though thats precisely not what you are trying to get at, you've got him won over. Maybe you yourself were won over in this same sort of way.. if only you had enough money to build a new deck on your house... or buy a nicer car.. "us vs them"
Most of the time when people (mostly liberals) talk about economic imbalance, they point to some people being "poor", but not actually poor like you see in India but just relatively poor like you see here in America. Its a circular argument, and thats all it is. Without perfect equality, there will always be a class that is "lower" even if it means they have cell phones, eat fast food, and watch cable television before they go to sleep every night.
There have always be choices a person needs to make, trade-offs between one thing and another. By and large the poor in America choose between a better cell phone plan or a better channel lineup on their television. Thats not what I call a problem that needs federal or even local government involvement, yet the liberals act like the common choice our poor is making is between food or shelter, hot water or clothing. No, thats not the common choice in America, but thats the way the liberals acting.
This trend towards abstract "problems", something you can't just point to and say "see!" but instead are just "general feelings" is the real problem we face in America. Are we really solving "problems" that are, well, "sort of like a rose bush"
Why is it such a big deal that there are 14 year olds at Foxconn?
"We have to do something about the gross financial inequality in this country." FAIL.
I agree. As if "financial equality" is some sort of delicious treat that nobody could say no to.
In case you missed it, regular US currency has most of the same issues. It is not backed by anything, its value fluctuates dynamically with perception and it is traded and gains and loses value at others' whims.
One at a time,
"It is not backed by anything" - Wrong, it is backed by guns and prison cells. Legal tender for all debts public and private, or else they send men with guns to put you in prison.
"its value fluctuates dynamically with perception" - Wrong, its value fluctuates with supply and demand.
"it is traded and gains and loses value at others' whims" - Right, the whims of the GOV and FED, which manipulate supply using various methods. For instance, Obama struck a deal with the FED two weeks ago for the FED to issue another $40 billion per month in currency on top of the $45 billion per month it was already creating for the same purpose. This $85 billion per month represents about 10% inflation all by itself.
Why not build them here?
Because our suicide rates across the board are already significantly higher than at Foxconn?
How many vendors provide Windows based tablets? ... One
Asus, Acer, Fujitsu, Panasonic, HP, Lenovo, and now Microsoft.
Looks like 7 and counting. Asus in particular offers x86 Windows tablets near iPad prices already.