Re:I maintain a page about PDA-hosted development
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Handheld Programming?
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· Score: 1
Some other notes:
The Jornada 720 gets 6-8 hours of battery life on the regular battery. The expanded battery is rated at 24 hours of use, under CE. I imagine that Linux gets 2-4 hours on the standard J720 battery. Also, the J720 can be had for around $300 on eBay. New, for some reason, HP still ells them for $1000. Insane.
A good editor? You can run Emacs and Vi under both WinCE and Linux.
I maintain a page about PDA-hosted development env
on
Handheld Programming?
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· Score: 3, Interesting
Yo-
One of the things I use a PDA for is just this. Believe it or not, it is one of the bigger reasons I got a PDA, and at the time, the Newton 2100, which could be programmed in its native language NewtonScript on the device itself. You can produce the same full applications as you could using the desktop NewtonScript tools.
I maintain a page about PDA-hosted development envrionments here. It is mostly concerned with WinCE and the Newton OS, but there is a link to a similar page for Palm OS info.
If you want to do C development, on the road, there really aren't many options. To my knowledge, there is no WinCE port of gcc. There are many programming systems available for WinCE and PocketPC machines, some compiled to machine code, some compiled to bytecode, and some interpreted.
To my knowledge, other than getting something like a Toshiba Liberetto (a 'real' PC, more than $400, and with > 2 hr battery life), the only option for doing C development on a small, PDA-class device is on the various Zaurus PDAs. You can install GCC, etc, on the Zaurus. Modern C development takes, relatively, a lot of storage space, compared to other options. You should be able to get external keyboards for the Zaurus SL-5x00 models. I doubt the wee thumbboard would be much more efficient than just using a decent character recognizer. Battery life may not be quite 8-hours, but that's what you get, I guess.
The newer JP only Zaurus has a built in keyboard, but it is quite small- a lot smaller than you'd find on the Jornada 720. Nothing touch typeable. But perhaps it is all you need?
If you were willing to go low-tek, you could get an older, DOS-based handheld PC like the HP OmniGo. You could probably run Turbo C on them. Or Watcom, etc. Those can he had pretty cheaply, and I believe get good battery life. Probably approaching 8 hours. They may use a non-rechargable battery (AAs or something), which could be good if youl'll be in the middle of nowhere for long stints. You could still use rechargable NiMH AAs even, just carry a bagfull of them.:P
Yet another option would be to install Linux on a Jornada 720. It would be able to run run GCC like the Zaurus, and have the added benefit of having a keyboard, 75% of fullsize. After a few days, I got quite used to it, and can type almost as fast as I can on a fullsize keyboard- and I have some pretty big and stubby fingers. I am using one right now for typing up this post, although under WinCE. (I use it for programming in Squeak Smalltalk. With the Jornada, you could get the optional 24-hour battery if long life is what you need. Under Linux, that battery could probably get you at least 8 hours, but a lot less than 24 hours. (poor or non-existant power management in Linux for the J720) I'm not sure about your environmental conditions, but the J720's screen isn't very readable in sunlight- TFT screen isn't reflective. Unreadable in direct and full summer or spring sunlight. Aside from that, it's a great device, and almost has replaced my poor iBook.;P I have a 2 GB PCMCIA drive for it.
I use it for development (in Squeak and Dialect [a Python-like RAD language]), write papers in TeX (and render and read them), record data in Excel, browse the web in IE (much more full featured than the IE in PocketPC), listening to MP3s, SSH for email and sysadminage, read eBooks in uBook and Acrobat... Like I said, it is like a full computer.:)
Under CE, the Jornada 720 gets 6-8 hours of battery life.
Yes, PocketPC has a contrast setting. So does WinCE. However, it isn't contrast which makes it impossible to read the Jornada 720 in full sunlight, but the fact that the screen isn't reflective. With high contrast at the highest bright setting, it is barely readable on an overcast day. I get the same results, more or less, with most non-reflective TFT displays- that is, like the kind you find on laptops. Mostly unreadable, especially in any sort of bright light. And when it is the time of year that I would be wanting to code in the woods, it is usually spring, summer or fall and bright enough outside.
The screens on devices like the color iPAQ models or the Zaurus 5500 are reflective, and with the backlight off, are *very* readable outside. Perfectly readable.
Fine with what? Are you saying a screen protector helps outdoor readability? By cutting down glare, or are these some special screen protectors that are doing something else?
Are there any packages that let you rotate the Zaurus's screen 90 degrees for using it in a landscape position? (almost a must for taking notes with such a tiny screen) Better yet, something like Nyditot's Virtual Display, which let's you not only rotate the display, but run it at different resolutions? (640x480 on the iPAQ for instance!)
Not all WinCE machines have a sucky battery life. I don't know of any PocketPCs that have a greyscale screen other than the iPAQ 31xx series, but they get pretty darn good battery life.
It may not be the month on a couple batteries my gf's Palm Pro got, but it's a helluva lot more than the 3 hours you get on most WinCE/Zaurus devices. Taking class notes (1-4 hours every weekday) and reading stuff while waiting for the bus, I got 2 weeks or more on a charge. And I use my PDA a lot, probably more than most. I should've done a test to see how long it went doing the stuff most Palm people are confined to- scheduling, contacts and playing solitaire. Even if you're not a fan of M$, one must admit that battery life on a WinCE device isn't bad when it doesn't have a big, bright color screen.
You also get decent battery life without having to put up with something as old as a Palm Pro/III. If you're just going to do basic organization, an old Palm os certainly good enough... but with the iPAQ 31xx, you can do a lot more. The iPAQ 31xxs have the same 206 MHz processor, 16 MB of RAM and a screen that is 320x240 (more than twice as large as a piddly 160x160 palm screen). Listen to MP3s, see webpages rendered half-decently, emulate a lot of old game systems, read PDFs, SSH/VNC/X11R6/Emacs/Vi (no joke), among many other things, some useful and some of a questionable value.
Unlike the Palm Pro, it can be used as a portable personal computer. And unlike the Zaurus, it is useful as a PDA.
Hell, if we're talking about old stuff- a 5 year old Newton 2x00 wipes the floor with Palm, WinCE, and Linux PDAs as a PDA as well as a handheld computer.
When discussing the Zaurus in relation to WinCE, a lot of people go on about features they see as novel to a Linux PDA.
I'm a big PDA nerd. I'm working on my own PDA OS/computing environment. And I've done a lot of comparisons between WinCE, Palm OS, Newton OS, and Linux.
Linux on the PDA can do a lot of slick things- run Apache, Emacs, Vi, Perl, Python, SSH, VNC and X11. WinCE can do that as well. There is an XFree port, multiple SSH clients (Free, free and commercial), etc. You can tunnel X11 over SSH on a WinCE machine. You can use a serial cable to adminster router with a terminal emulator. Some of these things are of questionable usefulness for some people, but it is possible all the same.
I've heard way too many people go on and on about how their Linux PDAs can do these things as an advantage over WinCE PDAs. Linux PDAs may have their advantages (moral advantage?), but running a handful of useful Unix-ey tools isn't one of them.
Check out Rainer's page for a lot of useful WinCE ports.
I cannot say the same for Palm OS, however. PalmOS is relatively primitive (internally) compared to WinCE and Linux/PDA, which are both full-blown, relatively modern operating systems that run on PDAs. Some of these things work on Palm OS devices, SSH for instance, but X11, Emacs most likely do not.
I'm *really* tempted to buy this Zaurus- seems like a good deal. But the same thing as ever is holding me back- Linux PDAs have no real handwriting recognition system, like the HWR on the Newton OS or CalliGrapher for Windows CE. I use it quite a bit for taking notes- taking bitmap notes doesn't compare in their usefulness to real text notes. The thumboard wouldn't cut it for taking college lecture notes for me, and the character recognition wouldn't either.
Other than HWR, I have still stuck to using WinCE and the Newton OS as my PDA platforms. The available software for WinCE is generally of a higher quality than you can get for Linux PDAs. Like on desktop Windows, there is a lot of trashy software, however, but the good stuff is pretty good, better than most of what you can get for Linux PDAs, commercial or not.
That isn't to say that all Linux PDA software sucks, or that you can't get a decent package here or there- on the contrary. The Hancom Office apps are pretty nice. However, Linux PDA apps are all too often like their desktop Linux apps- messy UI wise. Especially the Free and free apps. The commercial QTopia shops put a bit more thought into their apps, which is good.
If you like what is available enough, and think the moral advantage of Linux instead of WinCE
I've wanted a Linux PDA for quite some time. I did something similar to you, I bought a Helio for running Linux. Similar specs as an Agenda (75 MHz MIPS, 2 MB Flash ROM, 8 MB RAM, serial, 160x160 B&W screen). Linux was ported, so was PicoGUI, but in the end, it does just about as much as an Agenda does. Maybe a little more- the open-source default VT-OS is still pretty useful. After that, I got an iPAQ 3100 for developing Dynapad, and tried running Familiar and then QTopia on it during a couple months in the summer. Went back to WinCE after that,
I also run Squeak on it, and can use it for programming. But generally, it's a toy compared to my Newton 2100 or my Jornada 720.
That said, use whatever you like. I'm not a "WinCE evangelist," but thus far, I've preferred using it over Linux on a PDA. I don't even use Windows on the desktop (or server), but I'm a big proponent of using the best tool for the job.
Can you change the amounts used for RAM and storage? On WinCE or PocketPC, you can adjust the amounts used for each- for what I do on my Jornada 720 (WinCE), I need a lot of RAM. I have 30 MB of the 32 MB dedicated to RAM, only 2 MB to storage, and store everything on the 2 GB PCMCIA drive.
I was considering one of these after seeing this deal, but it'd be a shame to give up my beautiful 2 GB PCMCIA drive.:(
Does the 5500 really have 64 MB of RAM? (as opposed to to the 32 MB others have said)
What about the screen? Does it have a nice reflective screen like the iPAQ's, that can actually be read out-of-doors? I'm an ecologist and use a PDA [among other things] for field data collection... I have Newton 2100 and a Jornada 720 and am still using the Newton more than the Jornada 720. A big part of this is that I cannot see the J720's screen in natural light almost at all, but the greyscale screen of the Newton is quite readable. Call me a dork, but instead of being cooped up all day, I much prefer to go out to the woods and code on a PDA.
What is the battery life on a SL-5500? Can you turn the backlight entirely off ala the iPAQ?
Yes, I'm talking about some pretty simple applications with relatively small amoutns of data. Things like single-person todo lists or schedules. Over years, this data could amount to 1-2 MB maybe. All fitting in one or two tables. If you needed to add a new column, it would be pretty easy to do in an XML file or a serialized hash or array, and even easier to do in an object database.
Yeah, those two different points were pretty weird to make in the same post.:P
But no, I don't see a lot of random apps all happening to use MySQL as being pushing toward this goal. Without a level of standardization- on the database, availability to users, methods for the user to easily manipulate and access the data- it's irrelevant. The handful of apps which use MySQL for storing simple data isn't pervasive. When you have just a couple apps on your system doing this, it doesn't make sense. If all or most of them were, the benefits would be a lot more real.
It's not that I'm unhappy about these apps, I just think it's a big goofy unless a lot of apps adapted to this. I guess it's a bit silly of me to want this- a very slow and gradual adoption is much more likely that some magic conversion. At least on relatively stagnant OSes like Linux. (No offense/flame meant, simply that it embodies old ideas. These old ideas work well enough, but they're not getting any better.)
Hrmm, perhaps- I made that statement based on what RegEdit lets you do and what one can do on WinCE. (I've done some WinCE programming, but nothing on desktop Windows)
All the same, the Registry is still not what I mean- after all, if the registry really puts itself entirely in RAM, causes massive instabilities, and is generaly flaky it couldn't be used as an all-purpose general storage mechanism for the entire OS.
I'm inbetween those camps as well- if you need real relational database features, use one. A lot of what I see MySQL being used for does not need this. Will not suffer from a minor schema change down the line, etc.
but using MySQL shaves a lot of time off the coding.
Only if you're doing everything manually. The times where I've gone with serialized data or an XML file, the code ended up less than the same solution done with an SQL connection. However, if you're doing this with a language or library that makes you reinvent this wheel every time, yes, you're worse off in terms of time spent coding. But even if you're stuck on a platform like such, there is no reason you cannot make a relatively small wrapper around these operations which redunancy and amount of code needed to do these things. All the benefits, none of the negative aspects.
See the other poster's comment about this being like MS's registry. It is not. Any problems with the Windows registry is an issue with implementation, not the concept in general. There is an equivalent to the registry available for Linux, used by some GNOME apps. Not sure how many actually use it (%) or what it is called at the moment.
Nonetheless, the kind of system-wide database is not the same thing as the MS registry, although the MS registry is a good idea, although (very?) poorly implemented. I'd much prefer it to having flat files that are in scores of different formats. There is no reason you could not edit this registry from the command line using a small utility just like you could edit flat files.
As someone else pointed out, the registry is a kind of database yes, but it is not what I'm talking about. The registry isn't used for- and wasn't designed for- all-purpose data storage. The registry is used for storing preferences, and is limited to storing strings, bytes and keys (IIRC). No BLOBS, among many other missing features. You query it just by specifying a path, no query language or query language surrogate.
Yup. I can't say I keep up on the state-of-the-art in future MS OSes, but the wee bit I've read on OSNews sounds like it may be something good. Let's hope it works out and is useful...
That was one of the problems I ran into- most of the comparisons were a year old or more, and a fair amount has changed since then.
I agree, your needs should dictate what you use, but I think the needs has been specified- something in the domain of "enterprise relational databases." Not the hardest description, no, but something in the league of Oracle, DB2 and Sybase. For PostgreSQL to be "better" than MySQL for this area, why? Such is my questions for those who were not able to figure that out.
Performance seems to be a big part of the equation, and PostgreSQL has more of it?
I don't specifically mean the kernel. That would seem a bit unnecesary, unless it provided a pretty big boost in performance and was universally used by applications and the system alike to make it worthwhile.
The point would be for a unified model of data format, access and storage. No more file format worries. Empowering users to manage and manipulate their data. Easy sharing between apps on the same machine, over the network, across platforms.
The important change isn't in capability but in the way of doing things. Since I do not mean stuck in the kernel when I say OS integration, I simply mean that it would be a core part of the OS used by all applications. Instead of files as we know them. This could be provided by an existing user-space solution, but until there is some standardization the benefits wouldn't really materialize. E.g., it doesn't matter if MySQL is installed on this Linux box on my desk if none of the applications use it.
BeFS didn't do it. BeFS had attributes, which was a definate step in the right direction.
The Newton OS did it, with an object database. Down the line, other PDA OSes did it as well- Palm OS and the Helio's VT-OS both provided a database as the only means of data persistence. The Palm OS and VT-OS DB systems are quite a bit more restricted than the Newton OS's OODB or the theoretical system-wide relational DB we're discussion.
Dynapad (my PDA OS/OE) take an approach similar to the Newton OS with an system-wide object database.
I don't think the writer was confused in that the GPL is legally binding rather than ethically binding. That is, the GPL only legally requires you to redistribute your code if you pass out/sell the binary, not if you make the changes for your in-house setup. However, if I am a business using a heavily modified version of MySQL, adding tons of great features that make it a real player with real enterprise databases- but not sharing or selling the binary, there is still an ethical obligation- not a legal one, pressure from the community at large to share your changes. You see it all the time in the Linux community in especial.
That is how I read that statement, and from that standpoint, the author is correct.
I was having a discussion with a coworker a month or so back about the differences between PostgreSQL and MySQL. I was under the impression that Postgres was a lot more like a real enterprise db than MySQL and that transactions was a huge part of that. Looked it up, MySQL recieved those pretty recently... other than that, what does PostgreSQL still have on MySQL? This guy is pretty uninformed, yet very confidant in his assertion that "MyEthQueElll ith ath good ath Oraclee!!" and it'd be nice to have the material for enlightenment.:)
Considering the way MySQL is (ab)used, flat text files, serialized data structures/objects or XML files would be very adequate and just as convenient for what 30-40% of what MySQL is used for. Mind you, they would be sufficient for what 30-40% of the big boys of enterprise databases are usually used for, but they're often applied when they're actually needed.
That isn't to say that I am against using databases, but the overhead of MySQL is often pretty absurd for very simple dynamic websites (hell, a lot of kinds of dynamic web sites) and desktop apps managing a relatively small amount of information. If a DB was integrated into the OS as the preferred method of storing data, with the overhead paid for across many apps in increased convenience, it'd be worth it. But why the hell should I need to install MySQL just to maintain a list of todos and contacts? Look on Freshmeat- there is a torrent of applications using MySQL for managing small amoutns of data, both web and desktop apps.
It's too bad most Linux developers aren't interested in doing something really forward-thinking. If there was a DB integrated into the OS, and apps encouraged to use it, with avenues of data management made easily available to the user, computing could be actually pushed ahead by Linux. But not today, and probably nor ever.
Oh yes, my point: most of these apps would do fine with a flat file or (if one must get fancy) an XML file to manage this data.
Read what you put in bold again. This journalist said that they become ethically obliged- not legally by the GPL. And largely, that is the case. It would be nice if the writer could have said more than just that, but how could it have been said better in one sentence?
If you don't think that businesses (to a lesser extent, individuals) have an ethical obligation imposed by the community to share modifications made to an OSS project, you haven't been reading Slashdot or other forums of Free/OS software discussion. Hell, half of the "Ask Slashdots" where someone is asking about some whether application that does x, y, and z exists for Linux, there is always a big hunk of replies stating "this is OPEN sourze d00d write it yourself and share it with the world. otherwise, you don't deserve to use OSS- even if this app already existed." Yes, it's a stupid attitude (IMHO), but quite real in the community.
Slashdot Mirror
Some other notes:
The Jornada 720 gets 6-8 hours of battery life on the regular battery. The expanded battery is rated at 24 hours of use, under CE. I imagine that Linux gets 2-4 hours on the standard J720 battery. Also, the J720 can be had for around $300 on eBay. New, for some reason, HP still ells them for $1000. Insane.
A good editor? You can run Emacs and Vi under both WinCE and Linux.
Yo-
:P
;P I have a 2 GB PCMCIA drive for it.
:)
One of the things I use a PDA for is just this. Believe it or not, it is one of the bigger reasons I got a PDA, and at the time, the Newton 2100, which could be programmed in its native language NewtonScript on the device itself. You can produce the same full applications as you could using the desktop NewtonScript tools.
I maintain a page about PDA-hosted development envrionments here. It is mostly concerned with WinCE and the Newton OS, but there is a link to a similar page for Palm OS info.
If you want to do C development, on the road, there really aren't many options. To my knowledge, there is no WinCE port of gcc. There are many programming systems available for WinCE and PocketPC machines, some compiled to machine code, some compiled to bytecode, and some interpreted.
To my knowledge, other than getting something like a Toshiba Liberetto (a 'real' PC, more than $400, and with > 2 hr battery life), the only option for doing C development on a small, PDA-class device is on the various Zaurus PDAs. You can install GCC, etc, on the Zaurus. Modern C development takes, relatively, a lot of storage space, compared to other options. You should be able to get external keyboards for the Zaurus SL-5x00 models. I doubt the wee thumbboard would be much more efficient than just using a decent character recognizer. Battery life may not be quite 8-hours, but that's what you get, I guess.
The newer JP only Zaurus has a built in keyboard, but it is quite small- a lot smaller than you'd find on the Jornada 720. Nothing touch typeable. But perhaps it is all you need?
If you were willing to go low-tek, you could get an older, DOS-based handheld PC like the HP OmniGo. You could probably run Turbo C on them. Or Watcom, etc. Those can he had pretty cheaply, and I believe get good battery life. Probably approaching 8 hours. They may use a non-rechargable battery (AAs or something), which could be good if youl'll be in the middle of nowhere for long stints. You could still use rechargable NiMH AAs even, just carry a bagfull of them.
Yet another option would be to install Linux on a Jornada 720. It would be able to run run GCC like the Zaurus, and have the added benefit of having a keyboard, 75% of fullsize. After a few days, I got quite used to it, and can type almost as fast as I can on a fullsize keyboard- and I have some pretty big and stubby fingers. I am using one right now for typing up this post, although under WinCE. (I use it for programming in Squeak Smalltalk. With the Jornada, you could get the optional 24-hour battery if long life is what you need. Under Linux, that battery could probably get you at least 8 hours, but a lot less than 24 hours. (poor or non-existant power management in Linux for the J720) I'm not sure about your environmental conditions, but the J720's screen isn't very readable in sunlight- TFT screen isn't reflective. Unreadable in direct and full summer or spring sunlight. Aside from that, it's a great device, and almost has replaced my poor iBook.
I use it for development (in Squeak and Dialect [a Python-like RAD language]), write papers in TeX (and render and read them), record data in Excel, browse the web in IE (much more full featured than the IE in PocketPC), listening to MP3s, SSH for email and sysadminage, read eBooks in uBook and Acrobat... Like I said, it is like a full computer.
Under CE, the Jornada 720 gets 6-8 hours of battery life.
But you cannot change this dynamically? Say, with a slider? You have to make a change in a ROM and reboot?
Yes, PocketPC has a contrast setting. So does WinCE. However, it isn't contrast which makes it impossible to read the Jornada 720 in full sunlight, but the fact that the screen isn't reflective. With high contrast at the highest bright setting, it is barely readable on an overcast day. I get the same results, more or less, with most non-reflective TFT displays- that is, like the kind you find on laptops. Mostly unreadable, especially in any sort of bright light. And when it is the time of year that I would be wanting to code in the woods, it is usually spring, summer or fall and bright enough outside.
The screens on devices like the color iPAQ models or the Zaurus 5500 are reflective, and with the backlight off, are *very* readable outside. Perfectly readable.
Fine with what? Are you saying a screen protector helps outdoor readability? By cutting down glare, or are these some special screen protectors that are doing something else?
Are there any packages that let you rotate the Zaurus's screen 90 degrees for using it in a landscape position? (almost a must for taking notes with such a tiny screen) Better yet, something like Nyditot's Virtual Display, which let's you not only rotate the display, but run it at different resolutions? (640x480 on the iPAQ for instance!)
Not all WinCE machines have a sucky battery life. I don't know of any PocketPCs that have a greyscale screen other than the iPAQ 31xx series, but they get pretty darn good battery life.
It may not be the month on a couple batteries my gf's Palm Pro got, but it's a helluva lot more than the 3 hours you get on most WinCE/Zaurus devices. Taking class notes (1-4 hours every weekday) and reading stuff while waiting for the bus, I got 2 weeks or more on a charge. And I use my PDA a lot, probably more than most. I should've done a test to see how long it went doing the stuff most Palm people are confined to- scheduling, contacts and playing solitaire. Even if you're not a fan of M$, one must admit that battery life on a WinCE device isn't bad when it doesn't have a big, bright color screen.
You also get decent battery life without having to put up with something as old as a Palm Pro/III. If you're just going to do basic organization, an old Palm os certainly good enough... but with the iPAQ 31xx, you can do a lot more. The iPAQ 31xxs have the same 206 MHz processor, 16 MB of RAM and a screen that is 320x240 (more than twice as large as a piddly 160x160 palm screen). Listen to MP3s, see webpages rendered half-decently, emulate a lot of old game systems, read PDFs, SSH/VNC/X11R6/Emacs/Vi (no joke), among many other things, some useful and some of a questionable value.
Unlike the Palm Pro, it can be used as a portable personal computer. And unlike the Zaurus, it is useful as a PDA.
Hell, if we're talking about old stuff- a 5 year old Newton 2x00 wipes the floor with Palm, WinCE, and Linux PDAs as a PDA as well as a handheld computer.
When discussing the Zaurus in relation to WinCE, a lot of people go on about features they see as novel to a Linux PDA.
I'm a big PDA nerd. I'm working on my own PDA OS/computing environment. And I've done a lot of comparisons between WinCE, Palm OS, Newton OS, and Linux.
Linux on the PDA can do a lot of slick things- run Apache, Emacs, Vi, Perl, Python, SSH, VNC and X11. WinCE can do that as well. There is an XFree port, multiple SSH clients (Free, free and commercial), etc. You can tunnel X11 over SSH on a WinCE machine. You can use a serial cable to adminster router with a terminal emulator. Some of these things are of questionable usefulness for some people, but it is possible all the same.
I've heard way too many people go on and on about how their Linux PDAs can do these things as an advantage over WinCE PDAs. Linux PDAs may have their advantages (moral advantage?), but running a handful of useful Unix-ey tools isn't one of them.
Check out Rainer's page for a lot of useful WinCE ports.
I cannot say the same for Palm OS, however. PalmOS is relatively primitive (internally) compared to WinCE and Linux/PDA, which are both full-blown, relatively modern operating systems that run on PDAs. Some of these things work on Palm OS devices, SSH for instance, but X11, Emacs most likely do not.
I'm *really* tempted to buy this Zaurus- seems like a good deal. But the same thing as ever is holding me back- Linux PDAs have no real handwriting recognition system, like the HWR on the Newton OS or CalliGrapher for Windows CE. I use it quite a bit for taking notes- taking bitmap notes doesn't compare in their usefulness to real text notes. The thumboard wouldn't cut it for taking college lecture notes for me, and the character recognition wouldn't either.
Other than HWR, I have still stuck to using WinCE and the Newton OS as my PDA platforms. The available software for WinCE is generally of a higher quality than you can get for Linux PDAs. Like on desktop Windows, there is a lot of trashy software, however, but the good stuff is pretty good, better than most of what you can get for Linux PDAs, commercial or not.
That isn't to say that all Linux PDA software sucks, or that you can't get a decent package here or there- on the contrary. The Hancom Office apps are pretty nice. However, Linux PDA apps are all too often like their desktop Linux apps- messy UI wise. Especially the Free and free apps. The commercial QTopia shops put a bit more thought into their apps, which is good.
If you like what is available enough, and think the moral advantage of Linux instead of WinCE
I've wanted a Linux PDA for quite some time. I did something similar to you, I bought a Helio for running Linux. Similar specs as an Agenda (75 MHz MIPS, 2 MB Flash ROM, 8 MB RAM, serial, 160x160 B&W screen). Linux was ported, so was PicoGUI, but in the end, it does just about as much as an Agenda does. Maybe a little more- the open-source default VT-OS is still pretty useful. After that, I got an iPAQ 3100 for developing Dynapad, and tried running Familiar and then QTopia on it during a couple months in the summer. Went back to WinCE after that,
I also run Squeak on it, and can use it for programming. But generally, it's a toy compared to my Newton 2100 or my Jornada 720.
That said, use whatever you like. I'm not a "WinCE evangelist," but thus far, I've preferred using it over Linux on a PDA. I don't even use Windows on the desktop (or server), but I'm a big proponent of using the best tool for the job.
Can you change the amounts used for RAM and storage? On WinCE or PocketPC, you can adjust the amounts used for each- for what I do on my Jornada 720 (WinCE), I need a lot of RAM. I have 30 MB of the 32 MB dedicated to RAM, only 2 MB to storage, and store everything on the 2 GB PCMCIA drive.
:(
I was considering one of these after seeing this deal, but it'd be a shame to give up my beautiful 2 GB PCMCIA drive.
Does the 5500 really have 64 MB of RAM? (as opposed to to the 32 MB others have said)
What about the screen? Does it have a nice reflective screen like the iPAQ's, that can actually be read out-of-doors? I'm an ecologist and use a PDA [among other things] for field data collection... I have Newton 2100 and a Jornada 720 and am still using the Newton more than the Jornada 720. A big part of this is that I cannot see the J720's screen in natural light almost at all, but the greyscale screen of the Newton is quite readable. Call me a dork, but instead of being cooped up all day, I much prefer to go out to the woods and code on a PDA.
What is the battery life on a SL-5500? Can you turn the backlight entirely off ala the iPAQ?
Yes, I'm talking about some pretty simple applications with relatively small amoutns of data. Things like single-person todo lists or schedules. Over years, this data could amount to 1-2 MB maybe. All fitting in one or two tables. If you needed to add a new column, it would be pretty easy to do in an XML file or a serialized hash or array, and even easier to do in an object database.
Yeah, those two different points were pretty weird to make in the same post. :P
But no, I don't see a lot of random apps all happening to use MySQL as being pushing toward this goal. Without a level of standardization- on the database, availability to users, methods for the user to easily manipulate and access the data- it's irrelevant. The handful of apps which use MySQL for storing simple data isn't pervasive. When you have just a couple apps on your system doing this, it doesn't make sense. If all or most of them were, the benefits would be a lot more real.
It's not that I'm unhappy about these apps, I just think it's a big goofy unless a lot of apps adapted to this. I guess it's a bit silly of me to want this- a very slow and gradual adoption is much more likely that some magic conversion. At least on relatively stagnant OSes like Linux. (No offense/flame meant, simply that it embodies old ideas. These old ideas work well enough, but they're not getting any better.)
Hrmm, perhaps- I made that statement based on what RegEdit lets you do and what one can do on WinCE. (I've done some WinCE programming, but nothing on desktop Windows)
All the same, the Registry is still not what I mean- after all, if the registry really puts itself entirely in RAM, causes massive instabilities, and is generaly flaky it couldn't be used as an all-purpose general storage mechanism for the entire OS.
I'm inbetween those camps as well- if you need real relational database features, use one. A lot of what I see MySQL being used for does not need this. Will not suffer from a minor schema change down the line, etc.
but using MySQL shaves a lot of time off the coding.
Only if you're doing everything manually. The times where I've gone with serialized data or an XML file, the code ended up less than the same solution done with an SQL connection. However, if you're doing this with a language or library that makes you reinvent this wheel every time, yes, you're worse off in terms of time spent coding. But even if you're stuck on a platform like such, there is no reason you cannot make a relatively small wrapper around these operations which redunancy and amount of code needed to do these things. All the benefits, none of the negative aspects.
See the other poster's comment about this being like MS's registry. It is not. Any problems with the Windows registry is an issue with implementation, not the concept in general. There is an equivalent to the registry available for Linux, used by some GNOME apps. Not sure how many actually use it (%) or what it is called at the moment.
Nonetheless, the kind of system-wide database is not the same thing as the MS registry, although the MS registry is a good idea, although (very?) poorly implemented. I'd much prefer it to having flat files that are in scores of different formats. There is no reason you could not edit this registry from the command line using a small utility just like you could edit flat files.
As someone else pointed out, the registry is a kind of database yes, but it is not what I'm talking about. The registry isn't used for- and wasn't designed for- all-purpose data storage. The registry is used for storing preferences, and is limited to storing strings, bytes and keys (IIRC). No BLOBS, among many other missing features. You query it just by specifying a path, no query language or query language surrogate.
Yup. I can't say I keep up on the state-of-the-art in future MS OSes, but the wee bit I've read on OSNews sounds like it may be something good. Let's hope it works out and is useful...
That was one of the problems I ran into- most of the comparisons were a year old or more, and a fair amount has changed since then.
I agree, your needs should dictate what you use, but I think the needs has been specified- something in the domain of "enterprise relational databases." Not the hardest description, no, but something in the league of Oracle, DB2 and Sybase. For PostgreSQL to be "better" than MySQL for this area, why? Such is my questions for those who were not able to figure that out.
Performance seems to be a big part of the equation, and PostgreSQL has more of it?
I don't specifically mean the kernel. That would seem a bit unnecesary, unless it provided a pretty big boost in performance and was universally used by applications and the system alike to make it worthwhile.
The point would be for a unified model of data format, access and storage. No more file format worries. Empowering users to manage and manipulate their data. Easy sharing between apps on the same machine, over the network, across platforms.
The important change isn't in capability but in the way of doing things. Since I do not mean stuck in the kernel when I say OS integration, I simply mean that it would be a core part of the OS used by all applications. Instead of files as we know them. This could be provided by an existing user-space solution, but until there is some standardization the benefits wouldn't really materialize. E.g., it doesn't matter if MySQL is installed on this Linux box on my desk if none of the applications use it.
BeFS didn't do it. BeFS had attributes, which was a definate step in the right direction.
The Newton OS did it, with an object database. Down the line, other PDA OSes did it as well- Palm OS and the Helio's VT-OS both provided a database as the only means of data persistence. The Palm OS and VT-OS DB systems are quite a bit more restricted than the Newton OS's OODB or the theoretical system-wide relational DB we're discussion.
Dynapad (my PDA OS/OE) take an approach similar to the Newton OS with an system-wide object database.
I don't think the writer was confused in that the GPL is legally binding rather than ethically binding. That is, the GPL only legally requires you to redistribute your code if you pass out/sell the binary, not if you make the changes for your in-house setup. However, if I am a business using a heavily modified version of MySQL, adding tons of great features that make it a real player with real enterprise databases- but not sharing or selling the binary, there is still an ethical obligation- not a legal one, pressure from the community at large to share your changes. You see it all the time in the Linux community in especial.
That is how I read that statement, and from that standpoint, the author is correct.
I was having a discussion with a coworker a month or so back about the differences between PostgreSQL and MySQL. I was under the impression that Postgres was a lot more like a real enterprise db than MySQL and that transactions was a huge part of that. Looked it up, MySQL recieved those pretty recently... other than that, what does PostgreSQL still have on MySQL? This guy is pretty uninformed, yet very confidant in his assertion that "MyEthQueElll ith ath good ath Oraclee!!" and it'd be nice to have the material for enlightenment. :)
Considering the way MySQL is (ab)used, flat text files, serialized data structures/objects or XML files would be very adequate and just as convenient for what 30-40% of what MySQL is used for. Mind you, they would be sufficient for what 30-40% of the big boys of enterprise databases are usually used for, but they're often applied when they're actually needed.
That isn't to say that I am against using databases, but the overhead of MySQL is often pretty absurd for very simple dynamic websites (hell, a lot of kinds of dynamic web sites) and desktop apps managing a relatively small amount of information. If a DB was integrated into the OS as the preferred method of storing data, with the overhead paid for across many apps in increased convenience, it'd be worth it. But why the hell should I need to install MySQL just to maintain a list of todos and contacts? Look on Freshmeat- there is a torrent of applications using MySQL for managing small amoutns of data, both web and desktop apps.
It's too bad most Linux developers aren't interested in doing something really forward-thinking. If there was a DB integrated into the OS, and apps encouraged to use it, with avenues of data management made easily available to the user, computing could be actually pushed ahead by Linux. But not today, and probably nor ever.
Oh yes, my point: most of these apps would do fine with a flat file or (if one must get fancy) an XML file to manage this data.
Read what you put in bold again. This journalist said that they become ethically obliged- not legally by the GPL. And largely, that is the case. It would be nice if the writer could have said more than just that, but how could it have been said better in one sentence?
If you don't think that businesses (to a lesser extent, individuals) have an ethical obligation imposed by the community to share modifications made to an OSS project, you haven't been reading Slashdot or other forums of Free/OS software discussion. Hell, half of the "Ask Slashdots" where someone is asking about some whether application that does x, y, and z exists for Linux, there is always a big hunk of replies stating "this is OPEN sourze d00d write it yourself and share it with the world. otherwise, you don't deserve to use OSS- even if this app already existed." Yes, it's a stupid attitude (IMHO), but quite real in the community.