funny that... It seems that we are arguing on different points. The old see us as having a lot of stuff, and therefore by association affluent. Where as the younger see ourselves as financially poor and the older as rich. Interesting that both are true....
Of course I dont think that...I was citing generalities from the days of the hippies because it is easier to generalize. I respect my elders, and I know they have alot to teach me. But I dont respect the aging population at large, and there is a difference. It is the same reason that a person is smart and people are dumb. Most people, at least the ones on slashdot are educated and intelligent and made pretty smart choices with their lives. Unfortunately at-large, the older generation wants us to support them. The Social security problem, (and in the US) the national healthcare issue, the subprime lending rate crisis...all those are based on bad choices made by the older generation. And although I would like to support my grandparents, why should I support everyone elses? For what reason should I have to pay for everyone else? If this was an ideal world and I had the money to throw away to support them, sure I would do it. But I dont. And neither does my entire generation. Statistics are always proving that the young are ______. So everything costs more for us. How do you expect us to pay for you (which is what you are asking us to do in the next 5-10 years) when we have a hard enough time paying for ourselves. The credit crunch is your mistake. Smart people don't buy on credit unless they have to, and even then they know they can pay it back. Government bailouts for subprime owners? Why? Didn't you read the contract or know what variable intrests rates are? Investing in the future is a personal choice. If you dont do it then you screwed up. Neither I nor should anyone else have to suffer for your mistakes. I'm sorry I dont feel entitled to bail you out of mistakes. But for why we complain, we are seeing budget cuts to the education sector by the government to compensate for horrible spending of the legislatures. Why do our futures (possibly) have to suffer so that you can make the sidewalk look a little cleaner? Wouldn't education be the last place you look for money? And thats why we are mad, because it isn't the last place they are looking...its one of the first...and because we really have no power, its like taking candy from a baby.
The only reason we complain is that scales are tipped away from us because of our age...as if age has something to do with experience or wisdom. Only fools believe age is a measure of something. And yes we are doing our best, but with the information revolution we are finding that things are changing much quicker than we can change our circumstances to adapt to them. But the issue here is money. The young don't have salaries and we can only work so many hours in a week...summer jobs don't actually pay for anything anymore. I cant even pay for 3 weeks of tuition using every one of my paycheck in the summer. Its not that we have to pay for it is why we complain, but is that it is unreasonable to be essentially entrapped by the hiring system of companies (i.e. no one hires anyone without a degree so we have to get one).
See here's the thing. I'm at a public school, UCI. My tuition is going up 500 dollars next quarter for no damn reason. Which means I have to pay for it whether I like it or not. And I really wasn't being serious. It was supposed to be a joke. Because the rules are jokes who cares about most of that little crap. If you cant get money from selling cd's change your buisness model...it's not that difficult.
And for the record I am poor, I just don't get financial aid because I live on the border line of a rich zipcode. And I suppose voting is more of a situation where the child is telling the parent what to do. Did your parents listen when you told them something? Only when we are 30 somethings are we regarded as equals with the rest of the world even though the world runs off the innovations of the young.
I see...so its ok to have to suffer for your screw ups? You think you are entitled to a tax cut. Well I think you aren't. You haven't given us any money that supports the college education that we are "entitled" to. Do you honestly think that public high schools are "entitlements"? You got it too...so aren't you "entitled"? Why should I support your tax cut that you are "entitled" to. I'm pretty sure that the American dream didn't start with "after you pay your $50,000 college loan". I'm pretty damn sure I work alot harder learning at college and doing problem sets than you do at your job. After all, the average worker screws around for 2 hours a day. Well I'm in class for 20 hours a week and then I'm doing homework for another 30. Seems like I'm "entitled" to a tax cut or an education grant since I "work" more than you? Does that logic sound familiar? Oh, and just so you know thinking you are above someone just because you are older is ENTITLEMENT DUMBASS.
Now now...we cant keep dropping f-bombs. Because then we might make sense to them. But you all are right...good job old folks! I hope you take please in the fact that you and your lifestyles killed the planet. Us young folks...we dont have much stuff anymore. All we need is a computer, and ipod, and the clothes on our backs. We rough it. You old timers, go take your fancy houses, 2 week vacations and your ginormous cars and go stuff it. Hippies are the most fucked up people the world has ever created. And guess what? Their your parents! Good thing for us, we were raised by everyone else but you!
That seems to be what the older generations think we like to do...or maybe we can shoot up a school...pay ridiculously high viewing fees for movies...download music...
Of course the older generations kinda forget that the young always invent the crap that keeps them alive longer just so we can hear them bitch longer.
We aren't complaining about the job situation though. In that case, you HAVE to start from the bottom. And no one ever gets to start from the top. What we are complaining about is how hard it is to even get a leg up now. The only people who can win college scholarships are either people form low incomes or minorities. The only people that the government actually gives financial aid to is low income families. And coming out of college we have loans to pay off. I mean, straight out of the box we have a 50K car to pay for for the next 30 years. And here we are getting sued by RIAA for having downloaded music that they never would have actually bought anyways.
I know people say that us gen-y's complain alot. But don't we have the right to? How many rules has the older generations forced on us for no apparent reason. What good does a 10pm curfew do for most teenagers. My sister cant even go to a movie that ends after 10pm. No generation before us will have to spend their first 2 years salary just paying for college back (over a lifetime) and lets not even start about private schools. But what infuriates me the most, is that we don't have the power to change a damn thing. Our vote doesn't matter, politicians wont even lend an ear to the young outside of voting season. As it stand where I live, I cant even vote on city measures until I own a house in the city (to claim residency...for some reason apartments don't count). Until I have capital, nothing I say or do will have any effect on the future because of all the money special interest groups throw around.
So you tell me, should I not complain when my voice doesn't matter in a democratic republic where only dollars matter?
We are entitled to the same rights and freedoms that every other generation has had. Did you have a mandatory curfew at 10pm every night that was enforced by the city?
Older gens seem to think that we are the ones causing all of life's little problems when it really is just a result of their little screw ups or their pandering to the squeaky wheel. Do you really think a curfew at 10pm is going to stop teenagers from joining gangs? I mean...in the 60's and 70's all that generation did was eat, drink, do drugs, and have sex. And in our generation we are being limited to death by rules that don't even make sense. Point in case, my university has banned bicycles from campus because one person ALMOST hit the chancellor in a golf cart...keyword almost. When was the last time you were hit by a bike?
Unfortunately all we have now is the dream of hope. I'm a gen-Yer and I'm officially screwed. Where do old timers get off saying we're spoiled when I have a $50,000 loan to pay off upon graduating college. Unless I'm wrong college was dirt cheap back then, as in you could pay it off with a summer job or co-op type cheap. In 10 years my tuition has gone up 300% to $12K a year for a subsidized public university. None of them had to worry about whether or not my job will be obsolete by the time I'm 30. They don't have to worry about the $100,000 dollars I'm going to put in social security actually being there when I retire. None of them had to worry about a system that is so jacked up that NO ONE can make sense of it. Of course unlike the older gens, we don't bitch and moan about how unfair the world is and whine till we get our way. We just figure out a way to get it.
If we want to talk to people and screw around online we develop IRC and MUD. We want to listen to digital music on our computers, we invent the mp3 compression and rip our music off cd's. In my generation we get exactly what we want or we go somewhere else, none of that extra crap. That is why we build our own computers. Where does the older generation get off telling me that I have to live my life within their terms? Unless I'm wrong that was called slavery...
And on top of that, the older generation takes credit for our work and then bitches about it. Do you honestly think middle management does anything to spur innovation?
So I'd think that we deserve an iPod...at least it will give me some solace in the fact that the older gens screwed our lives over for their gain. Go kick down your ladder...because the younger gens don't give a crap about you. What have you done for us except make our lives tougher?
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funny that... It seems that we are arguing on different points. The old see us as having a lot of stuff, and therefore by association affluent. Where as the younger see ourselves as financially poor and the older as rich. Interesting that both are true....
We ARE looked down upon because age is its own class.
Of course I dont think that...I was citing generalities from the days of the hippies because it is easier to generalize. I respect my elders, and I know they have alot to teach me. But I dont respect the aging population at large, and there is a difference. It is the same reason that a person is smart and people are dumb. Most people, at least the ones on slashdot are educated and intelligent and made pretty smart choices with their lives. Unfortunately at-large, the older generation wants us to support them. The Social security problem, (and in the US) the national healthcare issue, the subprime lending rate crisis...all those are based on bad choices made by the older generation. And although I would like to support my grandparents, why should I support everyone elses? For what reason should I have to pay for everyone else? If this was an ideal world and I had the money to throw away to support them, sure I would do it. But I dont. And neither does my entire generation. Statistics are always proving that the young are ______. So everything costs more for us. How do you expect us to pay for you (which is what you are asking us to do in the next 5-10 years) when we have a hard enough time paying for ourselves. The credit crunch is your mistake. Smart people don't buy on credit unless they have to, and even then they know they can pay it back. Government bailouts for subprime owners? Why? Didn't you read the contract or know what variable intrests rates are? Investing in the future is a personal choice. If you dont do it then you screwed up. Neither I nor should anyone else have to suffer for your mistakes. I'm sorry I dont feel entitled to bail you out of mistakes. But for why we complain, we are seeing budget cuts to the education sector by the government to compensate for horrible spending of the legislatures. Why do our futures (possibly) have to suffer so that you can make the sidewalk look a little cleaner? Wouldn't education be the last place you look for money? And thats why we are mad, because it isn't the last place they are looking...its one of the first...and because we really have no power, its like taking candy from a baby.
The only reason we complain is that scales are tipped away from us because of our age...as if age has something to do with experience or wisdom. Only fools believe age is a measure of something. And yes we are doing our best, but with the information revolution we are finding that things are changing much quicker than we can change our circumstances to adapt to them. But the issue here is money. The young don't have salaries and we can only work so many hours in a week...summer jobs don't actually pay for anything anymore. I cant even pay for 3 weeks of tuition using every one of my paycheck in the summer. Its not that we have to pay for it is why we complain, but is that it is unreasonable to be essentially entrapped by the hiring system of companies (i.e. no one hires anyone without a degree so we have to get one).
See here's the thing. I'm at a public school, UCI. My tuition is going up 500 dollars next quarter for no damn reason. Which means I have to pay for it whether I like it or not. And I really wasn't being serious. It was supposed to be a joke. Because the rules are jokes who cares about most of that little crap. If you cant get money from selling cd's change your buisness model...it's not that difficult. And for the record I am poor, I just don't get financial aid because I live on the border line of a rich zipcode. And I suppose voting is more of a situation where the child is telling the parent what to do. Did your parents listen when you told them something? Only when we are 30 somethings are we regarded as equals with the rest of the world even though the world runs off the innovations of the young.
I see...so its ok to have to suffer for your screw ups? You think you are entitled to a tax cut. Well I think you aren't. You haven't given us any money that supports the college education that we are "entitled" to. Do you honestly think that public high schools are "entitlements"? You got it too...so aren't you "entitled"? Why should I support your tax cut that you are "entitled" to. I'm pretty sure that the American dream didn't start with "after you pay your $50,000 college loan". I'm pretty damn sure I work alot harder learning at college and doing problem sets than you do at your job. After all, the average worker screws around for 2 hours a day. Well I'm in class for 20 hours a week and then I'm doing homework for another 30. Seems like I'm "entitled" to a tax cut or an education grant since I "work" more than you? Does that logic sound familiar? Oh, and just so you know thinking you are above someone just because you are older is ENTITLEMENT DUMBASS.
Now now...we cant keep dropping f-bombs. Because then we might make sense to them. But you all are right...good job old folks! I hope you take please in the fact that you and your lifestyles killed the planet. Us young folks...we dont have much stuff anymore. All we need is a computer, and ipod, and the clothes on our backs. We rough it. You old timers, go take your fancy houses, 2 week vacations and your ginormous cars and go stuff it. Hippies are the most fucked up people the world has ever created. And guess what? Their your parents! Good thing for us, we were raised by everyone else but you!
That seems to be what the older generations think we like to do...or maybe we can shoot up a school...pay ridiculously high viewing fees for movies...download music... Of course the older generations kinda forget that the young always invent the crap that keeps them alive longer just so we can hear them bitch longer.
We aren't complaining about the job situation though. In that case, you HAVE to start from the bottom. And no one ever gets to start from the top. What we are complaining about is how hard it is to even get a leg up now. The only people who can win college scholarships are either people form low incomes or minorities. The only people that the government actually gives financial aid to is low income families. And coming out of college we have loans to pay off. I mean, straight out of the box we have a 50K car to pay for for the next 30 years. And here we are getting sued by RIAA for having downloaded music that they never would have actually bought anyways. I know people say that us gen-y's complain alot. But don't we have the right to? How many rules has the older generations forced on us for no apparent reason. What good does a 10pm curfew do for most teenagers. My sister cant even go to a movie that ends after 10pm. No generation before us will have to spend their first 2 years salary just paying for college back (over a lifetime) and lets not even start about private schools. But what infuriates me the most, is that we don't have the power to change a damn thing. Our vote doesn't matter, politicians wont even lend an ear to the young outside of voting season. As it stand where I live, I cant even vote on city measures until I own a house in the city (to claim residency...for some reason apartments don't count). Until I have capital, nothing I say or do will have any effect on the future because of all the money special interest groups throw around. So you tell me, should I not complain when my voice doesn't matter in a democratic republic where only dollars matter?
We are entitled to the same rights and freedoms that every other generation has had. Did you have a mandatory curfew at 10pm every night that was enforced by the city? Older gens seem to think that we are the ones causing all of life's little problems when it really is just a result of their little screw ups or their pandering to the squeaky wheel. Do you really think a curfew at 10pm is going to stop teenagers from joining gangs? I mean...in the 60's and 70's all that generation did was eat, drink, do drugs, and have sex. And in our generation we are being limited to death by rules that don't even make sense. Point in case, my university has banned bicycles from campus because one person ALMOST hit the chancellor in a golf cart...keyword almost. When was the last time you were hit by a bike?
Unfortunately all we have now is the dream of hope. I'm a gen-Yer and I'm officially screwed. Where do old timers get off saying we're spoiled when I have a $50,000 loan to pay off upon graduating college. Unless I'm wrong college was dirt cheap back then, as in you could pay it off with a summer job or co-op type cheap. In 10 years my tuition has gone up 300% to $12K a year for a subsidized public university. None of them had to worry about whether or not my job will be obsolete by the time I'm 30. They don't have to worry about the $100,000 dollars I'm going to put in social security actually being there when I retire. None of them had to worry about a system that is so jacked up that NO ONE can make sense of it. Of course unlike the older gens, we don't bitch and moan about how unfair the world is and whine till we get our way. We just figure out a way to get it. If we want to talk to people and screw around online we develop IRC and MUD. We want to listen to digital music on our computers, we invent the mp3 compression and rip our music off cd's. In my generation we get exactly what we want or we go somewhere else, none of that extra crap. That is why we build our own computers. Where does the older generation get off telling me that I have to live my life within their terms? Unless I'm wrong that was called slavery... And on top of that, the older generation takes credit for our work and then bitches about it. Do you honestly think middle management does anything to spur innovation? So I'd think that we deserve an iPod...at least it will give me some solace in the fact that the older gens screwed our lives over for their gain. Go kick down your ladder...because the younger gens don't give a crap about you. What have you done for us except make our lives tougher?