REESE (slow, but intense) Listen. Understand. That Hugginator is out there. It can't be reasoned with, it can't be bargained with...it never stops feel pity, remorse, fear... and it absolutely will not stop. Ever. Until you are hugged.
There is only a certain value to the company, so no matter what the law is, the limit on liability is the value of the company.
- yes, and so the company, that operates without the moral hazard of government insurance must buy real insurance to cover for the possible liability issues as well as other problems, so the real costs of running the nuclear power plant would be included into the price of resulting energy without government subsidies and without government insurance.
This would finally give us the real view of what nuclear energy actually costs to produce.
Iodine's half life is just over 8 days, right? Wait a month and a half, you won't find any.
Cs lasts longer, the particles are large, they don't get scattered around too much. Those, that get swept into the ocean will get scattered around in water. So what? Oceans are full of nuclear materials.
Cesium half life is about 30 years, so 5 half lives later is not 5000 years, it's 150.
However this will not even matter in the ocean. Ocean is full of radioactive materials, they are all over, but diluted. Much like gold. People don't go filtering ocean water for gold though.
I call that, and raise you all of the oil and coal and gas and now nuclear accidents, that happened so far, all under the watch of governments, all this regulation and government money, and the oil still spills, and gas still blows and coal mines explode, etc.
The companies are operating under government protection, and you are saying this does not create the real problem of the moral hazards, that would not otherwise have existed? Same with all other moral hazards - from getting off the gold standard (for a 'reserve' currency, no less), to insuring deposits (FDIC) and to insuring mortgages (FHA, Freddie, Fannie) to insuring against health problems (Medicare/Medicaid), providing government money to education, government money to military, government money to food (corn subsidies and the resulting obesity epidemic), etc.etc.
The one good thing to come out of the incoming financial collapse will hopefully be the removal of government power from fiscal policy making, but that probably IS hoping that people are smarter than they are.
Oh? And some people (20 or more thousand) were killed by tsunami and earthquakes. Their towns taken down, infrastructure destroyed, roads gone, etc. Nobody even asked them to move. So what's your point?
The more people there are, the more of them will be affected when something bad happens. But the more people there are, the more energy they need, and unless we do figure out how to breed Unicorns, that power our energy demand with butterfly farts and rainbows, the our best bet is actually nuclear.
Are you taking care of the victims of energy industry, which mostly relies on burning hydrocarbons? Maybe you should eat a ton of coal, see how that works out for you.
The amount that anything costs goes up with every new printed unit of fiat garbage. That's why the gold, silver, oil, cotton, coffee, etc., go up in price - it's more and more dollars chasing the same number of resources (or it's when the number of dollars grows much faster than resources are growing, which is the same thing.)
Again, when 2 currencies compete, on which one will be weaker - the one that wins, destroys purchasing power of people, who use it, nothing magical or good about it.
This should be concern for the company, there should be no limits set by governments on liability (like the few tens of millions of dollars liability cap they had or have in USA for deep water oil drilling).
It's really the company's problem - they have to figure out how to take that and store it or reuse, whatever.
so you are saying I shouldn't be drinking the water from the plant right now, and maybe wait until it's diluted with more ocean water, and then drink it? I don't actually like drinking ocean water that much though...
Well, if you collect all that water from the ocean right now, and filter out the Cesium and Uranium and other such heavy metals, then you lace your cereal with that daily, you will end up with certain problems on your hands.
I, on the other hand, am not interested in filtering out various poisons from the oceans and eating them. But you keep with your flaming and trolling.
loss of the US would be devastating. Loss of the US and EU would be unfathomable.
- wishful thinking. If the only value that is added by US and European countries is the printed currency, then there is nothing China loses, but it gains everything when it switches to its internal market.
However China does have trade deficit with Germany, so they don't want to lose THAT market, because they get useful THINGS from it, not useless fiat.
Sure, it's released, sure, it's not great. Who is dying? The stuff is flowing into the ocean, which always had nuclear materials in it, diluted in water, so there will be some more now. Horror.
"Nuclear Meltdown" - these two words were used to scare the public away from nuclear power for half a century now. So, what now? So the uranium and zircaloy melted in some cases, and? So they melted, nothing is exploding, nothing is happening. Sure, more radiation is released, but again, so what? It's more radiation, is plutonium and uranium being spread around? What's going on? What should we be scared of now?
- dollar is falling. Didn't you notice anything yet? Prices going up on commodities - energy, food, metals, everything? prices are going up on end products as well.
Keeping currency valuable is hard. Destruction of currency is easy, and it's never a good thing.
China's main concern is not the value of their currency, but the industrialization of itself. Higher wages, workers rights, etc.
- and the government should never be in business trying to model some form of economic development for the country, it does not work.
As to 'higher wages' and 'worker rights' - this is all nonsense. There is no some arbitrary level that wages must achieve, and there must be no government involvement into what amounts to a contract between employer and an employee, that is if the society is interested in a working economy and not in something that will go up flames in just a few decades, like what the Western societies have achieved.
This trumps any concern about currency, production, etc.
- if that's true, then China will not stop devaluing its currency, then it is risking having a revolution on its hands, the kind that the world just observed in the Middle Eastern countries.
Currency strength needs to be primary concern, as it literally is the purchasing power of the people, and this is especially important for those, with less resources.
In many parts of China factories are having to increase worker salaries by double digit percetages on a yearly basis.
- and this is due to inflation, and this will end badly if Chinese gov't doesn't stop it.
What happens when workers unionize?
- that's an easy one. Look at US industries - except government you don't see unions pretty much anywhere, that's actually because unions end up being the death warrant to the company, because the company cannot compete. OR the company decides to survive and leaves to other countries, in either case, the unions destroy themselves. Government unions do not have to produce, so they can be there as long as government can somehow force the taxes upon the population or keep borrowing/printing. Of-course when those crash, they'll crash even more spectacularly, with entire states and municipalities and hopefully even the federal government basically going out of business. I think it's fun to observe - death to socialism. I like THAT show.
What happens when they demand more rights?
- well, if they demand it from government somehow, then they set in motion the mechanism, that will eventually make their country uncompetitive relative to some other place. It's basic recipe for self destruction.
All western countries have undergone this process but China is very, very different and the possibilities are endless. This single topic alone has greater ability to topple china than any discussion on currency valuation.
- they will not invent anything new. Based on what we are observing with them, they will go the same route as everybody else, eventually destroying their own economy, but they will likely last at least twice as long as economies that are based in so called 'democracies', because one thing is true: totalitarian regimes do not let the mob set the rules, and the mob setting the rules is what kills democracies.
The idea that China owns the the "production" part of your equation is silly. The reasons for this are too lengthy to explain in this post,
- if you can't explain something in a paragraph, then you don't understand it.
China does own production, because you can't outdo them in this one thing: copying. And it's part of their culture - to copy.
The debt burden can achieve a number of leverage points that could benefit the USA, i
- a bunch of shamanistic nonsense.
In any relationship I rather be the creditor than the debtor. You never hear people say: wow, that's a great way to live, with so much debt, let's go THERE.
No, people say: wow, that's wonderful to live being a creditor, with all that money working for you, lets go there.
if there were no production there'd be no consumption. But it's just as true to say that if there were no consumption, there'd be no production.
first there is an idea. then there is search for capital. then there is development. then there is advertising and possible sales.
if sales cover the costs of all previous steps, then you can start having positive cash flow and make some money.
None of this is guaranteed to work, thus any new business is a risk.
There must be no government involvement at any step, so that there is no skewing of the actual market, otherwise resources will be mis-allocated, wrong signals will be sent to the market, competition will be destroyed, etc.
We* think most Americans should be able to earn a middle class wage.
- I don't know who 'we' are here, but that's wrong way to approach it, whatever 'you' maybe felling.
The correct way is obviously to let the market do the work, as USA had in 19 century and market was growing, the country was becoming wealthier (as China is becoming today), the population was getting wealthier, and wealth is not money.
Wealth IS the production capacity, it is the products that are created by manufacturers. Wealthy society does not need to keep wages high at some arbitrary artificial level, it only needs to have efficient distribution of the produced wealth, and what I mean by this is obviously falling prices.
19 century USA had prices constantly falling - something your Keynesian shamans of today will tell you kills economies, but they are only concerned with themselves, as they are sitting on top of the pyramid - printing money, borrowing money, and to them deflation is suicide, as they are stuck with the ever increasing bill for all that debt.
. As our wages stagnated *despite* our increased productivity
- this is a major misconception. USA does not have increased productivity, because increase in productivity comes out of capital investment, and USA has been driving capital investment out of its economy for a few generations, ever since the gold standard was abolished.
Slashdot Mirror
SARAH (weakly, plead-ing)
Just let me go.
REESE (slow, but intense)
Listen. Understand. That Hugginator is out there. It can't be reasoned with, it can't be bargained with...it never stops feel pity, remorse, fear... and it absolutely will not stop. Ever. Until you are hugged.
SARAH (quietly)
Can you stop it?
REESE
Maybe. With these weapons...
I don't know.
There is only a certain value to the company, so no matter what the law is, the limit on liability is the value of the company.
- yes, and so the company, that operates without the moral hazard of government insurance must buy real insurance to cover for the possible liability issues as well as other problems, so the real costs of running the nuclear power plant would be included into the price of resulting energy without government subsidies and without government insurance.
This would finally give us the real view of what nuclear energy actually costs to produce.
Iodine's half life is just over 8 days, right? Wait a month and a half, you won't find any.
Cs lasts longer, the particles are large, they don't get scattered around too much. Those, that get swept into the ocean will get scattered around in water. So what? Oceans are full of nuclear materials.
False equivalence. This is not the same situation - no graphite fire ever happened since there was no graphite.
As to all that nuclear material in Chernobyl - it was blown up and scattered around with the reactor explosion.
Here they'll have some puddles of molten stuff.
I bought a large number of Uranium stock and holding it.
Think: where the economy will go if there will be no nuclear energy on the market? Hydrocarbons mostly. Is that a good thing?
How convenient. How many people are going to die in the next 40 years? YOUR comment is the single dumbest thing I read here.
What about plutonium? Where is the plutonium going exactly? It will be collected and reused.
Cesium half life is about 30 years, so 5 half lives later is not 5000 years, it's 150.
However this will not even matter in the ocean. Ocean is full of radioactive materials, they are all over, but diluted. Much like gold. People don't go filtering ocean water for gold though.
is that all you have?
I call that, and raise you all of the oil and coal and gas and now nuclear accidents, that happened so far, all under the watch of governments, all this regulation and government money, and the oil still spills, and gas still blows and coal mines explode, etc.
The companies are operating under government protection, and you are saying this does not create the real problem of the moral hazards, that would not otherwise have existed? Same with all other moral hazards - from getting off the gold standard (for a 'reserve' currency, no less), to insuring deposits (FDIC) and to insuring mortgages (FHA, Freddie, Fannie) to insuring against health problems (Medicare/Medicaid), providing government money to education, government money to military, government money to food (corn subsidies and the resulting obesity epidemic), etc.etc.
The one good thing to come out of the incoming financial collapse will hopefully be the removal of government power from fiscal policy making, but that probably IS hoping that people are smarter than they are.
Oh? And some people (20 or more thousand) were killed by tsunami and earthquakes. Their towns taken down, infrastructure destroyed, roads gone, etc. Nobody even asked them to move. So what's your point?
The more people there are, the more of them will be affected when something bad happens. But the more people there are, the more energy they need, and unless we do figure out how to breed Unicorns, that power our energy demand with butterfly farts and rainbows, the our best bet is actually nuclear.
Nope. I never troll or flame,. Now if you decide to read something that way - that's your problem, not mine.
Are you taking care of the victims of energy industry, which mostly relies on burning hydrocarbons? Maybe you should eat a ton of coal, see how that works out for you.
Oh, and I am an atheist.
The amount that anything costs goes up with every new printed unit of fiat garbage. That's why the gold, silver, oil, cotton, coffee, etc., go up in price - it's more and more dollars chasing the same number of resources (or it's when the number of dollars grows much faster than resources are growing, which is the same thing.)
Again, when 2 currencies compete, on which one will be weaker - the one that wins, destroys purchasing power of people, who use it, nothing magical or good about it.
No no no, that is just a scenario where 2 (or more) deeply flawed paper currencies are losing value relative to one another.
The REAL value of a currency is not how much of other currency it can buy. It's how much of things it can buy, such as commodities and finished goods.
This should be concern for the company, there should be no limits set by governments on liability (like the few tens of millions of dollars liability cap they had or have in USA for deep water oil drilling).
It's really the company's problem - they have to figure out how to take that and store it or reuse, whatever.
so you are saying I shouldn't be drinking the water from the plant right now, and maybe wait until it's diluted with more ocean water, and then drink it? I don't actually like drinking ocean water that much though...
I don't know where you are coming from with that, I am perfectly fine with faces on numbers.
Well, if you collect all that water from the ocean right now, and filter out the Cesium and Uranium and other such heavy metals, then you lace your cereal with that daily, you will end up with certain problems on your hands.
I, on the other hand, am not interested in filtering out various poisons from the oceans and eating them. But you keep with your flaming and trolling.
loss of the US would be devastating. Loss of the US and EU would be unfathomable.
- wishful thinking. If the only value that is added by US and European countries is the printed currency, then there is nothing China loses, but it gains everything when it switches to its internal market.
However China does have trade deficit with Germany, so they don't want to lose THAT market, because they get useful THINGS from it, not useless fiat.
The only question is that's on everybody's mind: "how do they taste?".
I am a vegetarian, and even I want to know.
Sure, it's released, sure, it's not great. Who is dying? The stuff is flowing into the ocean, which always had nuclear materials in it, diluted in water, so there will be some more now. Horror.
"Nuclear Meltdown" - these two words were used to scare the public away from nuclear power for half a century now. So, what now? So the uranium and zircaloy melted in some cases, and? So they melted, nothing is exploding, nothing is happening. Sure, more radiation is released, but again, so what? It's more radiation, is plutonium and uranium being spread around? What's going on? What should we be scared of now?
The dollar falling would be a _good_ thing.
- dollar is falling. Didn't you notice anything yet? Prices going up on commodities - energy, food, metals, everything? prices are going up on end products as well.
Keeping currency valuable is hard.
Destruction of currency is easy, and it's never a good thing.
China's main concern is not the value of their currency, but the industrialization of itself. Higher wages, workers rights, etc.
- and the government should never be in business trying to model some form of economic development for the country, it does not work.
As to 'higher wages' and 'worker rights' - this is all nonsense. There is no some arbitrary level that wages must achieve, and there must be no government involvement into what amounts to a contract between employer and an employee, that is if the society is interested in a working economy and not in something that will go up flames in just a few decades, like what the Western societies have achieved.
This trumps any concern about currency, production, etc.
- if that's true, then China will not stop devaluing its currency, then it is risking having a revolution on its hands, the kind that the world just observed in the Middle Eastern countries.
Currency strength needs to be primary concern, as it literally is the purchasing power of the people, and this is especially important for those, with less resources.
In many parts of China factories are having to increase worker salaries by double digit percetages on a yearly basis.
- and this is due to inflation, and this will end badly if Chinese gov't doesn't stop it.
What happens when workers unionize?
- that's an easy one. Look at US industries - except government you don't see unions pretty much anywhere, that's actually because unions end up being the death warrant to the company, because the company cannot compete. OR the company decides to survive and leaves to other countries, in either case, the unions destroy themselves. Government unions do not have to produce, so they can be there as long as government can somehow force the taxes upon the population or keep borrowing/printing. Of-course when those crash, they'll crash even more spectacularly, with entire states and municipalities and hopefully even the federal government basically going out of business. I think it's fun to observe - death to socialism. I like THAT show.
What happens when they demand more rights?
- well, if they demand it from government somehow, then they set in motion the mechanism, that will eventually make their country uncompetitive relative to some other place. It's basic recipe for self destruction.
All western countries have undergone this process but China is very, very different and the possibilities are endless. This single topic alone has greater ability to topple china than any discussion on currency valuation.
- they will not invent anything new. Based on what we are observing with them, they will go the same route as everybody else, eventually destroying their own economy, but they will likely last at least twice as long as economies that are based in so called 'democracies', because one thing is true: totalitarian regimes do not let the mob set the rules, and the mob setting the rules is what kills democracies.
The idea that China owns the the "production" part of your equation is silly. The reasons for this are too lengthy to explain in this post,
- if you can't explain something in a paragraph, then you don't understand it.
China does own production, because you can't outdo them in this one thing: copying. And it's part of their culture - to copy.
The debt burden can achieve a number of leverage points that could benefit the USA, i
- a bunch of shamanistic nonsense.
In any relationship I rather be the creditor than the debtor. You never hear people say: wow, that's a great way to live, with so much debt, let's go THERE.
No, people say: wow, that's wonderful to live being a creditor, with all that money working for you, lets go there.
force leg
if there were no production there'd be no consumption. But it's just as true to say that if there were no consumption, there'd be no production.
first there is an idea.
then there is search for capital.
then there is development.
then there is advertising and possible sales.
if sales cover the costs of all previous steps, then you can start having positive cash flow and make some money.
None of this is guaranteed to work, thus any new business is a risk.
There must be no government involvement at any step, so that there is no skewing of the actual market, otherwise resources will be mis-allocated, wrong signals will be sent to the market, competition will be destroyed, etc.
We* think most Americans should be able to earn a middle class wage.
- I don't know who 'we' are here, but that's wrong way to approach it, whatever 'you' maybe felling.
The correct way is obviously to let the market do the work, as USA had in 19 century and market was growing, the country was becoming wealthier (as China is becoming today), the population was getting wealthier, and wealth is not money.
Wealth IS the production capacity, it is the products that are created by manufacturers. Wealthy society does not need to keep wages high at some arbitrary artificial level, it only needs to have efficient distribution of the produced wealth, and what I mean by this is obviously falling prices.
19 century USA had prices constantly falling - something your Keynesian shamans of today will tell you kills economies, but they are only concerned with themselves, as they are sitting on top of the pyramid - printing money, borrowing money, and to them deflation is suicide, as they are stuck with the ever increasing bill for all that debt.
. As our wages stagnated *despite* our increased productivity
- this is a major misconception. USA does not have increased productivity, because increase in productivity comes out of capital investment, and USA has been driving capital investment out of its economy for a few generations, ever since the gold standard was abolished.