Tom, Maybe I'm a bit out of date, but can you propose a way to keep the link between an affiliate and a store, BETWEEN browsing sessions? As far as I know, Ajax still isn't going to help there without cookies. Flash cookies are still cookies, and frankly I stay away from them.
Forgive me lake of quoting prowess, I'm not as dedicated as you.
2. I'm not proposing it's the only one just one that right now seems to work very well without jumping through hoops. Developers (me) have been jumping through hoops, dealing with browser hacks, and the stateless connection issue since the beginning of HTTP. If a customer follows the link, and buys in THAT session, fine. The affiliate gets paid. If they don't, the only way to attribute the sale is IF the customer logs into an account so the link between affiliate and store can be retained in the database.
If you know of a way to store an affiliate/store relation between distinct sessions PLEASE let me know.
Additionally, if this becomes worldwide, so much development time is going to be spent on fixing a problem we don't yet have. I think with our GLOBAL economic problems we'd be better served doing something more productive.
"maybe you can explain why the downstream"
maybe that'll work... See above. Again, give me a way to store between sessions that does NOT involve having the customer log into a database. Seriously, even if I could get a Unique code just for the damn computer, I could store what I need on my side.
Why? So you can make up new ways to abuse cookies?
I have no need to abuse cookies. I'm just trying to do business, in a legitimate way. I'm not storing terabytes of data on customers. I'm just trying to attribute a sale, so I can write an employee (affiliate) a weekly check.
dangerous
Yeah, spoke to soon, I'm still thinking of single user computers... I don't need to know crap about WHO the person is. Or the computer. I just need to REASONABLY be able to link a person between browsing sessions. We did some stats on our own company, and on higher end purchases, 75% of the sales were done AFTER the first visit.
I agree, but it will make the ads just a little less valuable.
Yes, I know there are other ways to store the data... 1. Every link becomes a javascript POST. 2. All data moved between pages via querystring. 3. Require a login to use the site so the data can be stored server-side. 4. FLASH COOKIES;)
Ok, no cookies. Poor me. You're just making it more difficult, but there are ways around it.
1. The malware and other scrupulous sites you hate so much... They wont obey your rules. 2. I hope you enjoy long query strings, because everything is going to be passed from page to page. 3. If you don't, expect every link to become a javascript POST. 4. You'll be required to create an account a lot more often so we can store everything server side and restore to SESSION variables when you return. 5. And expect a lot of free content sites to go belly up. No cookie, no revenue. 6. What percentage of sites these EU customers visit are hosted outside the jurisdiction?
BTW, we give discounts to customers using affiliate links. We WANT our affiliates to be profitable, if they aren't, we aren't. So we prefer that a customer goes through an affiliate. No cookie? No discount.
I guess you'd prefer we stored it all in the query string and pass it from page to page? Guess what,that's where we're headed. That, or every link becomes a POST.
Enjoy it while you can. Our current administration has every desire to eliminate the ability to say things like "I'm an American, I have freedoms." That's why Obama cohorts with nice freedom loving people like Chavez and Ahmadinejad. Anything that the EU is doing is viewed as an example of what we SHOULD be doing. Husein Obama has is on the fast track to a new world order.
I forgot the names of the 'scholars' that said it, but they said that the best way to move to socialism is to bankrupt the system. People will not have money, they will revolt, and the only answer is full goverment control. Banking? check. Automotive? check. Healthcare, almost there. Enery? You're next.
Bush spent his 8 years making this all possible. Obama is going to make sure he finishes the job.
I know this isn't going to be looked on well here, but here are my pro cookie, pro marketing comments...
1. Someone above complained about companies selling the data that they collect. As though it's the most terrible thing in the world to do. Guess what, every company that collects demographics about customers (grocery stores by example, the only way to not get tracked it to pay by cash. You don't need one of their store cards because they'll match your banking account numbers and STILL build a profile) and then sells them. How many useful websites on the internet are driven by 1. Selling demographics, 2.) Ad revenue. Making cookies opt-in kills both of those things. How much is/. charging you guys? Ask them what'll happen to their ad revenue if cookies are suddenly opt-in. Yeah, they can still technically serve the ads, but they will no longer be as accurate to the viewer, nor will they be tracked as well... meaning less profitable for the ad agency and the publisher.
2. Affiliate marketing... There are a lot of other sites with good information (a book review site comes to mind) that I enjoy. They all keep the site running by giving affiliate links to the products, say to a book on amazon. Kill that for them, and you kill their revenue.
So, would you propose that the people running these sites force the customer to consent before they allow them to use their services?? No, that won't work because they can only make them accept to their cookie, not the one downstream they actually get paid on. People have been so scared from cookie FUD that they will deny %90 of the time, and STILL kill many sites because their revenue has dried up.
I think this law, if they have to make one, should be more specific and say what you CAN'T use cookies for.
AND btw, affiliate links would be fine if we could JUST identify the computer, we do not need to identify the individual.
Sorry, when the sun is about to rise, it's dark. There are no shadows. It would be just after the sun rises that there would be big shadows. But that doesn't flow worth a damn. So... like the OP was saying, the sun is setting.
Actually, windows is not on the supported list of OSes for SOME MODELS... RHEL, Suse, etc are.
The marketing makes it sound like you get a single computer with 80 cores, which is not the case. Basicly you get one machine that's the controller. In the case there are room for a number of sleds, each it's own diskless server. They are intended to boot over bootp or PXE or some other network boot. By themselves, they do nothing. Only the basic $8k box is a personal computer. Once you add the first sled it becomes a 'cluster in a box.'
Because of the clustering it's completely useless as a windows workstation. Vista/Win7 is not going to cluster crap for you. Windows server CAN cluster, but 'common people' (those not on/.) don't go that far for their DESKTOP computers.
So this is only practical if you have the knowledge and software to set this up as a cluster. First thing that comes to mind are the guys at Pixar. Map it out on the workstation, save it to a network share, then the blades pick it up and render. Actually, they'd probably have a distributed rendering system, so it would be even more seamless.
I wouldn't mind using it for web development. Program on the workstation, one sled runs apache, the other runs mysql on a ramdisk:) Another running memcached. Yeah, I know. Overkill.
Well, I'm not sure WHY it's a requirement, but it has become one, de facto. You don't have to think it's great, or even like it at all, but just about every 'geek' has read it, regardless of what they thought about it.
And I WOULD say it's a child's fantasy world. It was written with his son in mind partly while he was in the trenches in WW1. Additionally he was a good friend of C.S. Lewis, who also wrote what I would call children's books.
If you can even USE the word 'Typically' about something, your are implying that they do something often enough to make it traceable. Then you further your anti-argument by giving examples such as disposable cell phones.
Very interesting. You must be a terrorist posting disinformation.
In most states, if you are on the clock you are functioning as a representative of the company. That puts the company liable for your actions. If your driving a company car and get in a wreck, it usually doesn't even matter if you were on the clock or not.
Regardless, most prosecutors are going to go after the party with the largest insurance policy.
The CSR will get criminal prosecution I'm sure. Guilty or not, the civil trial against Verizon can still go on.
I'm going to guess some employee just 'serving his time.' Not interested in the best interests of the company, doesn't like the job, doesn't care about the customers... just serving time there. As such, he stupidly forgets his laptop that has data, that never should have been there anyway.
Slashdot Mirror
I guess the whole thing boils down to 'necessary' and whether or not you're an optimist or a pessimist.
Tom, Maybe I'm a bit out of date, but can you propose a way to keep the link between an affiliate and a store, BETWEEN browsing sessions? As far as I know, Ajax still isn't going to help there without cookies. Flash cookies are still cookies, and frankly I stay away from them.
Forgive me lake of quoting prowess, I'm not as dedicated as you.
2. I'm not proposing it's the only one just one that right now seems to work very well without jumping through hoops. Developers (me) have been jumping through hoops, dealing with browser hacks, and the stateless connection issue since the beginning of HTTP. If a customer follows the link, and buys in THAT session, fine. The affiliate gets paid. If they don't, the only way to attribute the sale is IF the customer logs into an account so the link between affiliate and store can be retained in the database.
If you know of a way to store an affiliate/store relation between distinct sessions PLEASE let me know.
Additionally, if this becomes worldwide, so much development time is going to be spent on fixing a problem we don't yet have. I think with our GLOBAL economic problems we'd be better served doing something more productive.
"maybe you can explain why the downstream"
maybe that'll work...
See above. Again, give me a way to store between sessions that does NOT involve having the customer log into a database. Seriously, even if I could get a Unique code just for the damn computer, I could store what I need on my side.
Why? So you can make up new ways to abuse cookies?
I have no need to abuse cookies. I'm just trying to do business, in a legitimate way. I'm not storing terabytes of data on customers. I'm just trying to attribute a sale, so I can write an employee (affiliate) a weekly check.
dangerous
Yeah, spoke to soon, I'm still thinking of single user computers... I don't need to know crap about WHO the person is. Or the computer. I just need to REASONABLY be able to link a person between browsing sessions. We did some stats on our own company, and on higher end purchases, 75% of the sales were done AFTER the first visit.
Let it die? Are you serious? Do you know how much FREE content on the internet you consume is paid for by affiliate marketing? It's a lot.
Say goodbye to a TON of homegrown content.
I agree, but it will make the ads just a little less valuable.
Yes, I know there are other ways to store the data... ;)
1. Every link becomes a javascript POST.
2. All data moved between pages via querystring.
3. Require a login to use the site so the data can be stored server-side.
4. FLASH COOKIES
You are only here because I allow you to exist.
Ok, no cookies. Poor me. You're just making it more difficult, but there are ways around it.
1. The malware and other scrupulous sites you hate so much... They wont obey your rules.
2. I hope you enjoy long query strings, because everything is going to be passed from page to page.
3. If you don't, expect every link to become a javascript POST.
4. You'll be required to create an account a lot more often so we can store everything server side and restore to SESSION variables when you return.
5. And expect a lot of free content sites to go belly up. No cookie, no revenue.
6. What percentage of sites these EU customers visit are hosted outside the jurisdiction?
BTW, we give discounts to customers using affiliate links. We WANT our affiliates to be profitable, if they aren't, we aren't. So we prefer that a customer goes through an affiliate. No cookie? No discount.
I guess you'd prefer we stored it all in the query string and pass it from page to page? Guess what,that's where we're headed. That, or every link becomes a POST.
You forget, /. is overrun with out of work idealists that just want to 'hate the man'. They have no interest in the problems of a working developer.
Enjoy it while you can. Our current administration has every desire to eliminate the ability to say things like "I'm an American, I have freedoms." That's why Obama cohorts with nice freedom loving people like Chavez and Ahmadinejad. Anything that the EU is doing is viewed as an example of what we SHOULD be doing. Husein Obama has is on the fast track to a new world order.
I forgot the names of the 'scholars' that said it, but they said that the best way to move to socialism is to bankrupt the system. People will not have money, they will revolt, and the only answer is full goverment control. Banking? check. Automotive? check. Healthcare, almost there. Enery? You're next.
Bush spent his 8 years making this all possible. Obama is going to make sure he finishes the job.
I know this isn't going to be looked on well here, but here are my pro cookie, pro marketing comments...
1. Someone above complained about companies selling the data that they collect. As though it's the most terrible thing in the world to do. Guess what, every company that collects demographics about customers (grocery stores by example, the only way to not get tracked it to pay by cash. You don't need one of their store cards because they'll match your banking account numbers and STILL build a profile) and then sells them. How many useful websites on the internet are driven by 1. Selling demographics, 2.) Ad revenue. Making cookies opt-in kills both of those things. How much is /. charging you guys? Ask them what'll happen to their ad revenue if cookies are suddenly opt-in. Yeah, they can still technically serve the ads, but they will no longer be as accurate to the viewer, nor will they be tracked as well... meaning less profitable for the ad agency and the publisher.
2. Affiliate marketing... There are a lot of other sites with good information (a book review site comes to mind) that I enjoy. They all keep the site running by giving affiliate links to the products, say to a book on amazon. Kill that for them, and you kill their revenue.
So, would you propose that the people running these sites force the customer to consent before they allow them to use their services?? No, that won't work because they can only make them accept to their cookie, not the one downstream they actually get paid on. People have been so scared from cookie FUD that they will deny %90 of the time, and STILL kill many sites because their revenue has dried up.
I think this law, if they have to make one, should be more specific and say what you CAN'T use cookies for.
AND btw, affiliate links would be fine if we could JUST identify the computer, we do not need to identify the individual.
Sorry, when the sun is about to rise, it's dark. There are no shadows. It would be just after the sun rises that there would be big shadows. But that doesn't flow worth a damn. So... like the OP was saying, the sun is setting.
Actually, windows is not on the supported list of OSes for SOME MODELS... RHEL, Suse, etc are.
The marketing makes it sound like you get a single computer with 80 cores, which is not the case. Basicly you get one machine that's the controller. In the case there are room for a number of sleds, each it's own diskless server. They are intended to boot over bootp or PXE or some other network boot. By themselves, they do nothing. Only the basic $8k box is a personal computer. Once you add the first sled it becomes a 'cluster in a box.'
Because of the clustering it's completely useless as a windows workstation. Vista/Win7 is not going to cluster crap for you. Windows server CAN cluster, but 'common people' (those not on /.) don't go that far for their DESKTOP computers.
So this is only practical if you have the knowledge and software to set this up as a cluster. First thing that comes to mind are the guys at Pixar. Map it out on the workstation, save it to a network share, then the blades pick it up and render. Actually, they'd probably have a distributed rendering system, so it would be even more seamless.
I wouldn't mind using it for web development. Program on the workstation, one sled runs apache, the other runs mysql on a ramdisk :) Another running memcached. Yeah, I know. Overkill.
This is /. You're not fooling anybody.
Now my stomach is like a cord blood bank. I can maintain my pearish figure and have the excuse of regrowing body parts in the future. Sweet.
Well, I'm not sure WHY it's a requirement, but it has become one, de facto. You don't have to think it's great, or even like it at all, but just about every 'geek' has read it, regardless of what they thought about it.
And I WOULD say it's a child's fantasy world. It was written with his son in mind partly while he was in the trenches in WW1. Additionally he was a good friend of C.S. Lewis, who also wrote what I would call children's books.
http://www.christianitytoday.com/ch/news/2003/aug29.html
Mod -1, Unnecessary definition ;)
Please turn in your geek card.
You obviously didn't READ the books. I could see you missing it if you only saw the movies, since they almost never, if at all, called it by name.
If you can even USE the word 'Typically' about something, your are implying that they do something often enough to make it traceable. Then you further your anti-argument by giving examples such as disposable cell phones.
Very interesting. You must be a terrorist posting disinformation.
Or maybe I am for pointing it out ;)
Cool, so they just invented Splunk! Cool. Is it any cheaper than splunk, because if it is, I'll use it.
In most states, if you are on the clock you are functioning as a representative of the company. That puts the company liable for your actions. If your driving a company car and get in a wreck, it usually doesn't even matter if you were on the clock or not.
Regardless, most prosecutors are going to go after the party with the largest insurance policy.
The CSR will get criminal prosecution I'm sure. Guilty or not, the civil trial against Verizon can still go on.
It's a fraction of a cent on the mains. When you're running on battery, you also get less 'up time.'
I'm all for supporting the developers. I don't care how many pages of opt-out I have to do when signing up. Just don't try to trick me.
I'm going to guess some employee just 'serving his time.' Not interested in the best interests of the company, doesn't like the job, doesn't care about the customers... just serving time there. As such, he stupidly forgets his laptop that has data, that never should have been there anyway.
Liar, I called that number and he didin't answer. It was some damn La Rasa member! Probably in training to be a supreme court justice.
Sorry, fish are full of mercury!