Not on the street if he BELIEVED he was going to be attacked by motor vehicle. If Trevon BELIEVED he was going to be run over, he had every right to "lie in wait"... And when he did lie in wait for Zimmerman to GO AWAY (clearly meeting "duty to retreat") Zimmerman got OUT OF THE TRUCK to flush him out so he could run Martin over.
The law is usually clear about ADDING a deadly weapon to the situation. The "ground" is not a deadly weapon, so using a gun against somebody with just fists is not "self defense". Same with a bat or a crowbar, etc... The fight was on a public road so "castle doctrine" of defending your home does not apply... He had no right to escalate the fist fight to deadly weapons just because he was losing... People generally are not KILLED by only fists.
A lunch mob? Strictly going by the law, he should be in jail. If we had Martin here, he would tell you how Zimmerman followed him around the neighborhood flashing lights and stuff, till he was cornered, so he jumped him first to get away from the guy driving the 4,000 pound weapon.
Fact is in most states this would be murder2 because you don't have a "right to deadly force" outside your home except in very narrow circumstances. In a "duty to retreat" state this would probably be murder1 because Zimmerman PURSUED somebody suspected to be criminal and he's not a cop.
Moral of this is that in Florida, always fight to KILL.. Whoever's LEFT is RIGHT... According to the law.
THAT is why this is bad law. This was not Zimmemans HOME, it was a PUBLIC street and other homes. There is no legal justification to "prevent a criminal from escaping"...
This basically means I can "pick a fight", lose, and then blow somebody away, wherever I'm at.
If the story was a white woman with a CCW in the rain that didn't want to get in Zimmermans truck because he's a "raping Mexican"... So he followed her around the neighborhood and when he got out she blew him away!
You are looking for "menacing" like how most road rage starts with one side making threatening or offensive motions or words (not necessarily illegal on their own) at somebody.
This is nothing about the kid being black, in many states, you'd have got the Second, possibly First for causing a confrontation after police told you not to.
This is why states pass "duty to retreat". If he wasn't actively preventing the kid from "getting away" the kid would not have attacked him. That's why you don't chase "criminals". If Zimmerman never left the truck, he could have followed the kid to where his parent was at, then called the cops. Job done.
The entire situation was brought about by Zimmerman refusing to follow instruction, and attempting to "catch the perp" on his own rather than call police... And that was because the police were called out so many times they stopped taking HIS CALLS.
There is the part where he called the police and the recommended not leaving the vehicle OR confronting the suspect... So yeah, he had a good warning not to leave. The truck.
Had Zimmerman stayed in the truck and followed the kid "home" then he could have called police with a REAL INVESTIGATIVE TIP, and had the home searched for stolen stuff.
He called the police and was informed to "observe and report" WHEN the suspect actually DID SOMETHING ILLEGAL.
He didn't CALL IN an illegal activity, before GETTING OUT of his (safe) truck and cornering the kid to prevent the kid from "getting away".
THAT is the problem, a private citizen has NO RIGHTS to prevent "getting away" on their own outside their immediate home. Zimmerman clearly didn't draw his gun and declare "citizens arrest"... He went "cowboy" and DESERVED to get his face punched in.. And that's all the kid did was to PUNCH HIM without weapons to get away.
He CAUSED a fight and LOST... He didn't identify he was armed before STARTING the fight. It was just to look good when he executed the trespasser. (Set aside that the kid was black, because here are plenty of people willing to so that to ANYBODY they consider trespassing)
Effectively Zimmerman baited the kid so he could murder him. He followed police-style rolling up and preventing the kid from leaving, he called the police ahead to plant the alibi, then persued on foot anyway, he didn't put the kid "under citizens arrest" he just attempted to yell at him and physically detain him... Lastly, he didn't announce before trying to detain the kid that he had a gun. And just blew the kid away because he lost a fistfight.
Basically you had a 17YO kid, illegally (or just barrly legal) cornered, prevented from walking away, and threatened by an adult..attempting to fight his way out of the situation. If the kid was alive, Zimmerman would be wholly at fault.
This just makes extremely bad law. Lets say next time I get cut off in traffic by somebody texting (that's a crime!) i can block their car in at the next rest stop and verbally accost them for their poor decision... I don't even have to call the cops. When they try to escape by swerving at me or pushing my car out of the way, now I can "defend myself" and blow them away! Hell, you can even outright punch people in the face and walk away... If they "presue" then it's "self defense" on your part.
Yea Florida, you can pretty much antagonize a situation out in public right to the limit and as long as they hit on you more, you can blow them away as self defense!!!! Woot!
He needed to go down just to prevent that from becoming legal precedent.
but Zimmerman had already called the police and been instructed not to follow and confront... then went out and did exactly that. Zimmerman INTENDED to cause a confrontation as evidenced by not following police advice... he strapped on a gun and got in his truck and followed the kid till the kid felt the need to fight back.
the fact that Zimmerman was a fat man that LOST a fight he picket doesn't make it self defense. Zimmerman had equal access to use the sidewalk as a punching bag... he just wasn't smart enough. he let himself get beat up bad enough to be justified to use his gun. it's clear he had made so many 911 calls the police stopped RESPONDING to them. So he called another non-responding number for advice to set up his alibi for "investigating".
He INTENDED to kill that kid when he got out of the safety of his truck... and the kid stepped into the legal trap by throwing some punches. The whole problem with "stand your ground" is that the law doesn't count "starting a fight" against "self defense". So you can pick a fist fight, lose horribly and pull a gun legally... and that's exactly what happened.
Exactly. People don't need a new PC, they bought an iPad or Android instead. I have MacBooks and I do almost all my browsing on iPad because its easier. I'll probably buy another iPad before another new full computer...
Windows became IRRELEVANT which is WORSE than competition because I forgot about it. The dialog is totally dominated by Android at retail, and customers buy Apple in spite of stores like Best Buy trying to get them not to.
The fact that the "entry level" classes are taught basically to the kids that "already know it" is one main problem. The class's are taught specifically to the clique of "smart kids" with the intention that those who "don't get it" go away.
That was the biggest difference between Community college and university... Because community college tracers are there to TEACH where Uni professors are just winnowing the chaff from a big room that might be interesting assistants.
I laughed when changing jobs wasn't an option.... FIRING YOU certainly is an option.
My company works strictly to tickets, but its a legacy system, not a product. Don't other places work against bug or enhancement requests versus normal development? We have items that are "projects" and items that have complex dependencies, so a certain number of items have to be completed at once, but I guess I don't understand how developers just "add features" each week to a system with out some formal inputs...
I must be spoiled with really good managers or something.
And it's the BOSSES job to put 40 hours of work into the bucket each week with expectation that it can be a achieved. Not to just have a rolling list and HOPE developers hit what's important. Hesse systems break down because the boss is the one responsible for managing deadlines and expectations, not the developers. If the boss doesn't know what a reasonable quantity of work to accomplish in a week is, they are not really the boss.
GDP is a good way to gage what is a "fair" amount if taxes to be takin from the system when comparing countries. Our federal budgets are huge, but when taken versus GDP of other countries they are not out of line because our GDP is so much bigger. Consider it "management fees" based on a percentage of the assets managed. For society to function properly the percentage comes out pretty close for most first world countries... And the US shifts to the bottom of the list and spends more of its money on prisons and guns than anybody else... Like 10:1.
There is no "off the shelf" product that is going to handle payments to Civil War survivors and the 160 years of federal laws passed since then for paying soldiers/survivors their wages in every war since.
Projects like this are something that rare 20-something's can handle. It takes "grey hairs" with experience in putting all the parts together because they have done boring payroll apps for 20 years. Even if you DNT know THIS app, you know what pieces have to be there because of precedent, legal, or historical standards so mentally filling in the flow chart is easier.
To be fair, many states quietly started down that path way back in the 1990's and 2000's. unions started negotiating coverage for "partners". Adoption agencies wouldn't adopt to "gay couples" but to one partner or the other. Some states even started offering Civil Unions....
EXCEPT... For that pesky little DOMA law in 1996 that made all those small steps ILLEGAL TO RECOGNIZE at the Federal level. And set off a chain of counter laws and State CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENTS to FORCE employers and insurance companies to VOID the fairly negotiated steps taken. That's what happened here in Michigan, as soon as the ink was dry on our "marriage" amendment, they went straight for University professor unions that negotiated "+ 1" style "no questions" coverage for partners.
So in short, its not the "gays" that started this open fight... It's the "moralists" that are actively UNDOING any small progress and actively trying to use the LAW against gays. Now that the fight is in the open, after the LAW said gay couldn't be made illegal anymore, why go back to living in shadows??
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Not on the street if he BELIEVED he was going to be attacked by motor vehicle. If Trevon BELIEVED he was going to be run over, he had every right to "lie in wait"... And when he did lie in wait for Zimmerman to GO AWAY (clearly meeting "duty to retreat") Zimmerman got OUT OF THE TRUCK to flush him out so he could run Martin over.
Except Martin is DEAD so we don't get his side.
The law is usually clear about ADDING a deadly weapon to the situation. The "ground" is not a deadly weapon, so using a gun against somebody with just fists is not "self defense". Same with a bat or a crowbar, etc... The fight was on a public road so "castle doctrine" of defending your home does not apply... He had no right to escalate the fist fight to deadly weapons just because he was losing... People generally are not KILLED by only fists.
A lunch mob? Strictly going by the law, he should be in jail. If we had Martin here, he would tell you how Zimmerman followed him around the neighborhood flashing lights and stuff, till he was cornered, so he jumped him first to get away from the guy driving the 4,000 pound weapon.
Fact is in most states this would be murder2 because you don't have a "right to deadly force" outside your home except in very narrow circumstances. In a "duty to retreat" state this would probably be murder1 because Zimmerman PURSUED somebody suspected to be criminal and he's not a cop.
Moral of this is that in Florida, always fight to KILL.. Whoever's LEFT is RIGHT... According to the law.
THAT is why this is bad law. This was not Zimmemans HOME, it was a PUBLIC street and other homes. There is no legal justification to "prevent a criminal from escaping"...
This basically means I can "pick a fight", lose, and then blow somebody away, wherever I'm at.
If the story was a white woman with a CCW in the rain that didn't want to get in Zimmermans truck because he's a "raping Mexican"... So he followed her around the neighborhood and when he got out she blew him away!
Debate.
You are looking for "menacing" like how most road rage starts with one side making threatening or offensive motions or words (not necessarily illegal on their own) at somebody.
This is nothing about the kid being black, in many states, you'd have got the Second, possibly First for causing a confrontation after police told you not to.
This is why states pass "duty to retreat". If he wasn't actively preventing the kid from "getting away" the kid would not have attacked him. That's why you don't chase "criminals". If Zimmerman never left the truck, he could have followed the kid to where his parent was at, then called the cops. Job done.
The entire situation was brought about by Zimmerman refusing to follow instruction, and attempting to "catch the perp" on his own rather than call police... And that was because the police were called out so many times they stopped taking HIS CALLS.
There is the part where he called the police and the recommended not leaving the vehicle OR confronting the suspect... So yeah, he had a good warning not to leave. The truck.
Had Zimmerman stayed in the truck and followed the kid "home" then he could have called police with a REAL INVESTIGATIVE TIP, and had the home searched for stolen stuff.
He called the police and was informed to "observe and report" WHEN the suspect actually DID SOMETHING ILLEGAL.
He didn't CALL IN an illegal activity, before GETTING OUT of his (safe) truck and cornering the kid to prevent the kid from "getting away".
THAT is the problem, a private citizen has NO RIGHTS to prevent "getting away" on their own outside their immediate home. Zimmerman clearly didn't draw his gun and declare "citizens arrest" ... He went "cowboy" and DESERVED to get his face punched in.. And that's all the kid did was to PUNCH HIM without weapons to get away.
He CAUSED a fight and LOST... He didn't identify he was armed before STARTING the fight. It was just to look good when he executed the trespasser. (Set aside that the kid was black, because here are plenty of people willing to so that to ANYBODY they consider trespassing)
This just made VERY bad case law.
Effectively Zimmerman baited the kid so he could murder him. He followed police-style rolling up and preventing the kid from leaving, he called the police ahead to plant the alibi, then persued on foot anyway, he didn't put the kid "under citizens arrest" he just attempted to yell at him and physically detain him... Lastly, he didn't announce before trying to detain the kid that he had a gun. And just blew the kid away because he lost a fistfight.
Basically you had a 17YO kid, illegally (or just barrly legal) cornered, prevented from walking away, and threatened by an adult ..attempting to fight his way out of the situation. If the kid was alive, Zimmerman would be wholly at fault.
This just makes extremely bad law. Lets say next time I get cut off in traffic by somebody texting (that's a crime!) i can block their car in at the next rest stop and verbally accost them for their poor decision... I don't even have to call the cops. When they try to escape by swerving at me or pushing my car out of the way, now I can "defend myself" and blow them away! Hell, you can even outright punch people in the face and walk away... If they "presue" then it's "self defense" on your part.
Yea Florida, you can pretty much antagonize a situation out in public right to the limit and as long as they hit on you more, you can blow them away as self defense!!!! Woot!
He needed to go down just to prevent that from becoming legal precedent.
but Zimmerman had already called the police and been instructed not to follow and confront... then went out and did exactly that. Zimmerman INTENDED to cause a confrontation as evidenced by not following police advice... he strapped on a gun and got in his truck and followed the kid till the kid felt the need to fight back.
the fact that Zimmerman was a fat man that LOST a fight he picket doesn't make it self defense. Zimmerman had equal access to use the sidewalk as a punching bag... he just wasn't smart enough. he let himself get beat up bad enough to be justified to use his gun. it's clear he had made so many 911 calls the police stopped RESPONDING to them. So he called another non-responding number for advice to set up his alibi for "investigating".
He INTENDED to kill that kid when he got out of the safety of his truck... and the kid stepped into the legal trap by throwing some punches. The whole problem with "stand your ground" is that the law doesn't count "starting a fight" against "self defense". So you can pick a fist fight, lose horribly and pull a gun legally... and that's exactly what happened.
Exactly. People don't need a new PC, they bought an iPad or Android instead. I have MacBooks and I do almost all my browsing on iPad because its easier. I'll probably buy another iPad before another new full computer...
Windows became IRRELEVANT which is WORSE than competition because I forgot about it. The dialog is totally dominated by Android at retail, and customers buy Apple in spite of stores like Best Buy trying to get them not to.
The fact that the "entry level" classes are taught basically to the kids that "already know it" is one main problem. The class's are taught specifically to the clique of "smart kids" with the intention that those who "don't get it" go away.
That was the biggest difference between Community college and university... Because community college tracers are there to TEACH where Uni professors are just winnowing the chaff from a big room that might be interesting assistants.
I laughed when changing jobs wasn't an option.... FIRING YOU certainly is an option.
My company works strictly to tickets, but its a legacy system, not a product. Don't other places work against bug or enhancement requests versus normal development? We have items that are "projects" and items that have complex dependencies, so a certain number of items have to be completed at once, but I guess I don't understand how developers just "add features" each week to a system with out some formal inputs...
I must be spoiled with really good managers or something.
And it's the BOSSES job to put 40 hours of work into the bucket each week with expectation that it can be a achieved. Not to just have a rolling list and HOPE developers hit what's important. Hesse systems break down because the boss is the one responsible for managing deadlines and expectations, not the developers. If the boss doesn't know what a reasonable quantity of work to accomplish in a week is, they are not really the boss.
GDP is a good way to gage what is a "fair" amount if taxes to be takin from the system when comparing countries. Our federal budgets are huge, but when taken versus GDP of other countries they are not out of line because our GDP is so much bigger. Consider it "management fees" based on a percentage of the assets managed. For society to function properly the percentage comes out pretty close for most first world countries... And the US shifts to the bottom of the list and spends more of its money on prisons and guns than anybody else ... Like 10:1.
There is no "off the shelf" product that is going to handle payments to Civil War survivors and the 160 years of federal laws passed since then for paying soldiers/survivors their wages in every war since.
Those tapes got wiped when the magnetic alien was stored too close.
Projects like this are something that rare 20-something's can handle. It takes "grey hairs" with experience in putting all the parts together because they have done boring payroll apps for 20 years. Even if you DNT know THIS app, you know what pieces have to be there because of precedent, legal, or historical standards so mentally filling in the flow chart is easier.
Or the Alien Doctor Flox from Enterprise.
They had that in Battlestar Galactica... Between 3-4 males and females.
Except laws like DOMA passed by the RIGHT, and 20 state constitution amendments. FORCIBLY REMOVED that option from the table pre-emptively.
To be fair, many states quietly started down that path way back in the 1990's and 2000's. unions started negotiating coverage for "partners". Adoption agencies wouldn't adopt to "gay couples" but to one partner or the other. Some states even started offering Civil Unions....
EXCEPT... For that pesky little DOMA law in 1996 that made all those small steps ILLEGAL TO RECOGNIZE at the Federal level. And set off a chain of counter laws and State CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENTS to FORCE employers and insurance companies to VOID the fairly negotiated steps taken. That's what happened here in Michigan, as soon as the ink was dry on our "marriage" amendment, they went straight for University professor unions that negotiated "+ 1" style "no questions" coverage for partners.
So in short, its not the "gays" that started this open fight... It's the "moralists" that are actively UNDOING any small progress and actively trying to use the LAW against gays. Now that the fight is in the open, after the LAW said gay couldn't be made illegal anymore, why go back to living in shadows??