230 MPH? Great but The FIA will outlaw it. It'll be too fast. That's why you see the latest generation of Tilke designed tracks all having short straights and lots of curves. That's also why you see fans wanting more of the old style tracks like Spa, Monza, Imola and Ricard because they were designed for speed, not FIA bureaucrats.
Formula E extreme? That's a stretch. Again, get old people on mobility scooters and put them on a 1/4 mile oval. The racing would be much more exciting.
Only because they were having their ass handed to them on a plate. Toyota achieved literally nothing in their F1 stint, BMW did get some wins, but weren't competitive enough to justify the investment. Honda ditto, but left at the wrong time (the post-Honda Brawn team won the 2009 championship with the Honda designed car.)
Yes it has to make good financial and business sense if a company is going to be in any racing series. If you look one key reason BMW left.
Premium [brands] will increasingly be defined in terms of sustainability and environmental compatibility. This is an area in which we want to remain in the lead. In line with our Strategy Number ONE, we are continually reviewing all projects and initiatives to check them for future viability and sustainability. Our Formula One campaign is thus less a key promoter for us. Norbert Reithofer
It was because they felt F1 wasn't relevant to their business and wasn't green enough. Okay, I'll agree to that but motor racing isn't about green, it never should be about green and being eco-friendly. It's racing FFS! If you come in it looking for butterflies and rainbows you're in the wrong sport.
And there are other racing series, which may be more road relevent. The Audi R18 e-tron has a Diesel hybrid drivetrainm with flywheel based energy storage. Very road relavent and innovative in the field.
And the FIA for F1 says storage is electric, Williams helped design the flywheel technology you mention and has quite a few patents around it however they can't use it in F1 and they're an F1 team. Again, teams can't innovate even on ERS design, it's mandated that it be this way because some bureaucrats thought it best.
It's not all about innovation. It's also about the grunt work of refining what you have. That's why Mercedes are dominating even the other identically powered cars. They've done the best job within the rules defined.
And there are lots of ways to innovate in chassis and aerodynamic design. The current crop of F1 cars have a very diverse array of front end designs.
And lets be honest, most F1 innovations don't translate to road cars anyway. The biggest influence of F1 and other motor racing has been in the engine management and fuel injection areas. Racing aerodynamics? Moot. Suspension design? Not applicable to most road cars. Sequential gearboxes? Came from bikes anyway. Tires? Irrelevent unless you only want your tires to last a week.
Agreed, they've done a great job but so have other teams but the rules like homologation for power units means that technology freezes for six years. Sure, gear ratios (twice a year) and fuel maps can be changed but if you did it right to begin with, that's a huge advantage but now that leaves everybody struggling because they can't innovate to compete. The only other area is Aero within a defined set of parameters, again, defined by the FIA and with cost reduction initiatives simulator time, wind tunnel time is all governed which means your racing to a budget, not producing the best thing you can. No team has infinite resources but it would be nice to see differences in the cars and different schemes, like maybe flywheel recovery in ERS but that's a pipe dream. What this leads to is conservative designs instead of leading designs for the sake of reliability vs ultimate performance. That makes it like a deranged pinewood derby.
with mandated technology restrictions imposed by the FIA how do you propose that real innovation will occur? If a team comes up with a radical new battery that allows them to go the race distance without stopping the FIA won't allow it because it will be unfair to the other teams, especially if they're French. That's what you have in F1, as soon as an advantage is learned, it's wiped out by more regulations creating a glorified pinewood derby.
That's the incongruity of the situation and why the FIA has imposed ridiculous rules on how much supercomputing time can be used etc. to attempt at balancing the competition. What this has led to is teams like RBR where they'll go out, find some innovation, like Carbon Fiber layout software and lock the vendor into only supplying that technology to them. This gave RBR a distinct advantage in front wing design that allowed strength but also flexibility to get skirt some of the rules. If you can't build it, buy it right? The FIA then changed the rules on Aero to compensate for that teams initiative. Power Units require homolgolation and that means unless it's in the name of improved reliability/durability you can't change them once homologated. This means if you get it right to begin with, you'll have a huge advantage and the other teams won't be able to react. Again, an imbalance. The only way I'd see of constraining costs would be to say teams can have no more than X people and X budget, total; do with it what you will. That's like a salary cap, not what the FIA has created in F1.
Oh come on I know your kidding there but sometimes the customer insists on vague specs. It's also mostly about the lowest cost bidder so they probably had a small team in the US, glad-handers and an offshore team doing the actual work. Obviously Oregon isn't happy about it and it's probably clear that Oracle feels they did a great job.
It's a contract dispute as alleged by Oregon: fraud and poor performance. A court trial in this case would be warranted if the parties couldn't work it out amicably. Having dealt with State and Federal contracts I tell you that some of the deliverables stated in contracts leave huge holes. The vendors more often than not can't change them and so eventually you get to a point where either the customer is happy or they withhold payment or sue you because their nebulous requirements weren't met.
Probably jaded because too many series getting driven into the ground. With the F1 teams being worried, that should say enough about the fact that F1 is going in the wrong direction. IndyCar is struggling because of trying to focus on low dollar racing, creating an incredibly boring series. F1 will head there as well. I'll still watch F1, probably attend the USGP next year if there is one too. The WEC series is turning around and LeMans is one race I have yet to attend, so maybe I'll focus over there instead of watching Ecclestone and his cronies drive F1 into the ground.
LOL, that made me laugh but it's true. Not to mention all the planes and helicopters for the drivers/spectators along with all the air cargo transport needed to ferry it around the planet.
LOL, check your stats at the Hungaroring, attendance was down. I hear that about Ferrari but all the teams except AMG seem to have severe issues with the rule changes. That's the nature of any sport, when your on top things look pretty good. Also Force India has been a great team given their limited budgets but that's the rub, in an effort to cut costs the FIA has created artificial areas where innovation has remained stagnant and it takes money to race. I just hope they don't get as daft as IndaCar with the same cars/chassis but no matter we'll see what happens and right now F1 is in trouble, even though the coverage analysts try to make it seem different. I was going to go to Monza this year and the USGP at COTA. I've scratched those off my list because Hockenheim was my first F1 race attendance in this new formula and I'm sorry it wasn't great, it was mediocre. If I'm going to spend lots of money going to a motor sports event I want to see the teams being able to race as hard as they can. I want the experience, not just part of it. The sights, the sounds are all part of F1 and limiting fuel rates, getting rid of refueling and putting artificial excitement into it is killing it as a spectator sport. Shit, if Bernie has to provide Lions in the pit area to attack the F1 mechanics, then so beit! I wanna see how fast Vijay can run. Shit Put Flavio, that cheating SOB, in a monkey suit and make him dance on the grid!
We can debate that sure. Let's roll back to 2013 where there were lots of different podium finishers and then suddenly Silverstone and the exploding tire fiasco. So despite protests from a lot of the teams, the FIA had Pirelli change back to the compounds that favored RBR. After Silverstone 2013 was a completely different season from before. The racing was just as exciting and we even got to see Alonso win at the Spanish GP. It was exciting and it kept fans in the stands.
Switch forward to 2014 Williams has been more successful this year because of the AMG powertrain, McLaren on the other hand I don't know why they're not as successful. If not for Crash Massa you'd probably see more improvement there but all Bottas has to do is drive a smart race it seems. That's not probably fair to Massa but one wonders why he gets tangled up in the shimozzles of others.
RBR in Ricciardo is doing very well because twitchy seems to work for him. Teams with the AMG powertrain have had an advantage and Mercedes is hitting all the right buttons, literally. The new control systems are overly complex and make it look like the drivers are playing angry birds rather than driving a car. Brake by wire is leaving a lot of teams lost and experienced drivers aren't comfortable.
This means that Mercedes will only lose the championship due to their own infighting and mistakes.
I was disheartened to see Vettel in Austria out with another terminal Renault problem too. What you'll see over the next few races in terms of "units used per season" penalties will probably shake that up even more, which to a point is contrived excitement. Hunt/Lauda were never on the same team BTW although Senna/Prost were and Prost to this day was still a crying little bitch, but that's another topic. Oh and last time I checked Vettel still had his head on his shoulders and like Kimi he just needs to get on with it.
That's not a Formula E car. Yes and electrics will get better yada yada yada. Formula E to me will be as exciting as watching flies fuck. (Sorry George Carlin) but if you want a more exciting series put a bunch of old farts on hoverounds, that would be great. Canes flying. Walkers thrown all the while ripping along at 4mph.
Spark blocks are another gimmick just like DRS. They haven't made nor will they make the sport more exciting. Neither will Double points in Abu Dhabi however maybe they'll introduce a chase so that at the summer break, the top 10 drivers/teams will compete for the champsionship. Yeah, that's fucked NASCAR and the NHRA up quite a bit. Well the NHRA fucked themselves by keeping the 1000 foot rule in place after Kalitta's death.
You just pointed out something that's missing in F1, diversity in power plants. The FIA mandates how many cylinders and how energy is to be recovered. That's not innovation, it's targeted bureaucracy.
I was there, where were you? Hockenheim was a great race only because of rain and because of Lewis moving up the pack. If you haven't noticed other than Mercedes AMG, RBR have only gotten to the top podium spot because of their own failures. So measures to improve the competition have led to the same thing. Maybe they should add titanium spark blocks or double points in a race to make it more exciting. Wait, they've already done that with Abu Dhabi and the spark blocks is a TBD.
You mean the 1000ft drag racing or the 1/4 mile drag racing?
As for motor racing, I've followed and attended F1 races for almost 40 years now and in every season there's been controversy. This year however there were too many changes made and if you look over the past 10 years a strange thing emerges. Lap records aren't being broken, most were set in the V10 era and the V8s didn't break them and now the V6s won't either. Sorry the cars are still quick but they're loose, the brake by wire system is leaving drivers uncomfortable in their cars and that means conservative. Couple that with the failure rates and the new "double points" final race and F1 has become something of a joke.
You go to racing events for the total package, the entire sensory experience and part of that experience is gone. Don't believe me? VJ Mallya was quoted as saying "We need the sound, the soul of F1 back" and he owns an F1 team. What about Luca Di Montezemolo who runs Ferrari calling this years edition of F1 "Taxi Drivers." I've watched and attended Indy Car, NASCAR, F1, Air Races, Boat Races and other forms of racing. F1 is special because of its history and the excitement of a series traveling the world. Part of that was the sound, which contributed quite a bit to the sensory experience. It was also allowing teams to innovate and work within the rules, which unfortunately now the FIA seems to put its clamps on more and more. SO, no innovation, lousy cars, losing fans, lose F1. Caterham is on the brink, Lotus is teetering and I don't see a lot of teams standing in line waiting to get in, only Haas right now for 2016. So while the FIA will cheer that their over-abundant meddling in the sport is "eco friendly" it's killing their prized series. Much like when they killed the Mulsane Straight, we have lost something in racing and I've already discontinued going to F1 races until they start listening to their fans again.
No, there's things I like about Windows and hate about it. Just like Solaris has it's quirks but more often than not the software solution drives the platform, not the other way round.
A lot of car makers left F1 in the past, Mercedes has returned, but Honda, BMW and Toyota have left. Honda will be back but only because of the V6 synergy and Nissan does have a relationship with Renault but unfortunately that's not going to probably equate to something you and I would drive for a long time. Motor Racing does help drive innovation but in a sport where the FIA have virtually done away with any concept of innovation, it'll be difficult to see how this new formula will enhance the sport or spur innovation in day to day cars. Fans are leaving, sponsors are worried and that means no money and a dead series coming soon.
the 100kg/hr fuel flow rate limiting is why all teams are well below 15K RPM and they sound like glorified Weed Eaters. The FIA have been working to enhance the sound with changing the exhaust note using a megaphone exhaust pipe. http://www.autosport.com/news/...
I've been watching F1 since the 1970s and this is the most boring, lifeless, set of machines I've seen.
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or maybe Oracle is more shrewd at business than the State of Oregon? I think that's the reality here.
230 MPH? Great but The FIA will outlaw it. It'll be too fast. That's why you see the latest generation of Tilke designed tracks all having short straights and lots of curves. That's also why you see fans wanting more of the old style tracks like Spa, Monza, Imola and Ricard because they were designed for speed, not FIA bureaucrats.
Formula E extreme? That's a stretch. Again, get old people on mobility scooters and put them on a 1/4 mile oval. The racing would be much more exciting.
Only because they were having their ass handed to them on a plate. Toyota achieved literally nothing in their F1 stint, BMW did get some wins, but weren't competitive enough to justify the investment. Honda ditto, but left at the wrong time (the post-Honda Brawn team won the 2009 championship with the Honda designed car.)
Yes it has to make good financial and business sense if a company is going to be in any racing series. If you look one key reason BMW left.
Premium [brands] will increasingly be defined in terms of sustainability and environmental compatibility. This is an area in which we want to remain in the lead. In line with our Strategy Number ONE, we are continually reviewing all projects and initiatives to check them for future viability and sustainability. Our Formula One campaign is thus less a key promoter for us.
Norbert Reithofer
It was because they felt F1 wasn't relevant to their business and wasn't green enough. Okay, I'll agree to that but motor racing isn't about green, it never should be about green and being eco-friendly. It's racing FFS! If you come in it looking for butterflies and rainbows you're in the wrong sport.
And there are other racing series, which may be more road relevent. The Audi R18 e-tron has a Diesel hybrid drivetrainm with flywheel based energy storage. Very road relavent and innovative in the field.
And the FIA for F1 says storage is electric, Williams helped design the flywheel technology you mention and has quite a few patents around it however they can't use it in F1 and they're an F1 team. Again, teams can't innovate even on ERS design, it's mandated that it be this way because some bureaucrats thought it best.
It's not all about innovation. It's also about the grunt work of refining what you have. That's why Mercedes are dominating even the other identically powered cars. They've done the best job within the rules defined.
And there are lots of ways to innovate in chassis and aerodynamic design. The current crop of F1 cars have a very diverse array of front end designs.
And lets be honest, most F1 innovations don't translate to road cars anyway. The biggest influence of F1 and other motor racing has been in the engine management and fuel injection areas. Racing aerodynamics? Moot. Suspension design? Not applicable to most road cars. Sequential gearboxes? Came from bikes anyway. Tires? Irrelevent unless you only want your tires to last a week.
Agreed, they've done a great job but so have other teams but the rules like homologation for power units means that technology freezes for six years. Sure, gear ratios (twice a year) and fuel maps can be changed but if you did it right to begin with, that's a huge advantage but now that leaves everybody struggling because they can't innovate to compete. The only other area is Aero within a defined set of parameters, again, defined by the FIA and with cost reduction initiatives simulator time, wind tunnel time is all governed which means your racing to a budget, not producing the best thing you can. No team has infinite resources but it would be nice to see differences in the cars and different schemes, like maybe flywheel recovery in ERS but that's a pipe dream. What this leads to is conservative designs instead of leading designs for the sake of reliability vs ultimate performance. That makes it like a deranged pinewood derby.
with mandated technology restrictions imposed by the FIA how do you propose that real innovation will occur? If a team comes up with a radical new battery that allows them to go the race distance without stopping the FIA won't allow it because it will be unfair to the other teams, especially if they're French. That's what you have in F1, as soon as an advantage is learned, it's wiped out by more regulations creating a glorified pinewood derby.
That's the incongruity of the situation and why the FIA has imposed ridiculous rules on how much supercomputing time can be used etc. to attempt at balancing the competition. What this has led to is teams like RBR where they'll go out, find some innovation, like Carbon Fiber layout software and lock the vendor into only supplying that technology to them. This gave RBR a distinct advantage in front wing design that allowed strength but also flexibility to get skirt some of the rules. If you can't build it, buy it right? The FIA then changed the rules on Aero to compensate for that teams initiative. Power Units require homolgolation and that means unless it's in the name of improved reliability/durability you can't change them once homologated. This means if you get it right to begin with, you'll have a huge advantage and the other teams won't be able to react. Again, an imbalance. The only way I'd see of constraining costs would be to say teams can have no more than X people and X budget, total; do with it what you will. That's like a salary cap, not what the FIA has created in F1.
Oh come on I know your kidding there but sometimes the customer insists on vague specs. It's also mostly about the lowest cost bidder so they probably had a small team in the US, glad-handers and an offshore team doing the actual work. Obviously Oregon isn't happy about it and it's probably clear that Oracle feels they did a great job.
It's a contract dispute as alleged by Oregon: fraud and poor performance. A court trial in this case would be warranted if the parties couldn't work it out amicably. Having dealt with State and Federal contracts I tell you that some of the deliverables stated in contracts leave huge holes. The vendors more often than not can't change them and so eventually you get to a point where either the customer is happy or they withhold payment or sue you because their nebulous requirements weren't met.
I was thinking chisel and stone tablets. Much more durable than paper. Less chance for data loss except if you drop them.
I agree with half of that. The other half is DBAs who configure it to run like shit so they're paid to babysit it.
With booze and gambling and hookers?
Probably jaded because too many series getting driven into the ground. With the F1 teams being worried, that should say enough about the fact that F1 is going in the wrong direction. IndyCar is struggling because of trying to focus on low dollar racing, creating an incredibly boring series. F1 will head there as well. I'll still watch F1, probably attend the USGP next year if there is one too. The WEC series is turning around and LeMans is one race I have yet to attend, so maybe I'll focus over there instead of watching Ecclestone and his cronies drive F1 into the ground.
LOL, that made me laugh but it's true. Not to mention all the planes and helicopters for the drivers/spectators along with all the air cargo transport needed to ferry it around the planet.
LOL, check your stats at the Hungaroring, attendance was down. I hear that about Ferrari but all the teams except AMG seem to have severe issues with the rule changes. That's the nature of any sport, when your on top things look pretty good. Also Force India has been a great team given their limited budgets but that's the rub, in an effort to cut costs the FIA has created artificial areas where innovation has remained stagnant and it takes money to race. I just hope they don't get as daft as IndaCar with the same cars/chassis but no matter we'll see what happens and right now F1 is in trouble, even though the coverage analysts try to make it seem different. I was going to go to Monza this year and the USGP at COTA. I've scratched those off my list because Hockenheim was my first F1 race attendance in this new formula and I'm sorry it wasn't great, it was mediocre. If I'm going to spend lots of money going to a motor sports event I want to see the teams being able to race as hard as they can. I want the experience, not just part of it. The sights, the sounds are all part of F1 and limiting fuel rates, getting rid of refueling and putting artificial excitement into it is killing it as a spectator sport. Shit, if Bernie has to provide Lions in the pit area to attack the F1 mechanics, then so beit! I wanna see how fast Vijay can run. Shit Put Flavio, that cheating SOB, in a monkey suit and make him dance on the grid!
We can debate that sure. Let's roll back to 2013 where there were lots of different podium finishers and then suddenly Silverstone and the exploding tire fiasco. So despite protests from a lot of the teams, the FIA had Pirelli change back to the compounds that favored RBR. After Silverstone 2013 was a completely different season from before. The racing was just as exciting and we even got to see Alonso win at the Spanish GP. It was exciting and it kept fans in the stands.
Switch forward to 2014
Williams has been more successful this year because of the AMG powertrain, McLaren on the other hand I don't know why they're not as successful. If not for Crash Massa you'd probably see more improvement there but all Bottas has to do is drive a smart race it seems. That's not probably fair to Massa but one wonders why he gets tangled up in the shimozzles of others.
RBR in Ricciardo is doing very well because twitchy seems to work for him. Teams with the AMG powertrain have had an advantage and Mercedes is hitting all the right buttons, literally. The new control systems are overly complex and make it look like the drivers are playing angry birds rather than driving a car. Brake by wire is leaving a lot of teams lost and experienced drivers aren't comfortable.
This means that Mercedes will only lose the championship due to their own infighting and mistakes.
I was disheartened to see Vettel in Austria out with another terminal Renault problem too. What you'll see over the next few races in terms of "units used per season" penalties will probably shake that up even more, which to a point is contrived excitement. Hunt/Lauda were never on the same team BTW although Senna/Prost were and Prost to this day was still a crying little bitch, but that's another topic. Oh and last time I checked Vettel still had his head on his shoulders and like Kimi he just needs to get on with it.
That's not a Formula E car. Yes and electrics will get better yada yada yada. Formula E to me will be as exciting as watching flies fuck. (Sorry George Carlin) but if you want a more exciting series put a bunch of old farts on hoverounds, that would be great. Canes flying. Walkers thrown all the while ripping along at 4mph.
I was in the Parabolica stands closer to Turn 4.
Spark blocks are another gimmick just like DRS. They haven't made nor will they make the sport more exciting. Neither will Double points in Abu Dhabi however maybe they'll introduce a chase so that at the summer break, the top 10 drivers/teams will compete for the champsionship. Yeah, that's fucked NASCAR and the NHRA up quite a bit. Well the NHRA fucked themselves by keeping the 1000 foot rule in place after Kalitta's death.
You just pointed out something that's missing in F1, diversity in power plants. The FIA mandates how many cylinders and how energy is to be recovered. That's not innovation, it's targeted bureaucracy.
I was there, where were you? Hockenheim was a great race only because of rain and because of Lewis moving up the pack. If you haven't noticed other than Mercedes AMG, RBR have only gotten to the top podium spot because of their own failures. So measures to improve the competition have led to the same thing. Maybe they should add titanium spark blocks or double points in a race to make it more exciting. Wait, they've already done that with Abu Dhabi and the spark blocks is a TBD.
You mean the 1000ft drag racing or the 1/4 mile drag racing?
As for motor racing, I've followed and attended F1 races for almost 40 years now and in every season there's been controversy. This year however there were too many changes made and if you look over the past 10 years a strange thing emerges. Lap records aren't being broken, most were set in the V10 era and the V8s didn't break them and now the V6s won't either. Sorry the cars are still quick but they're loose, the brake by wire system is leaving drivers uncomfortable in their cars and that means conservative. Couple that with the failure rates and the new "double points" final race and F1 has become something of a joke.
You go to racing events for the total package, the entire sensory experience and part of that experience is gone. Don't believe me? VJ Mallya was quoted as saying "We need the sound, the soul of F1 back" and he owns an F1 team. What about Luca Di Montezemolo who runs Ferrari calling this years edition of F1 "Taxi Drivers." I've watched and attended Indy Car, NASCAR, F1, Air Races, Boat Races and other forms of racing. F1 is special because of its history and the excitement of a series traveling the world. Part of that was the sound, which contributed quite a bit to the sensory experience. It was also allowing teams to innovate and work within the rules, which unfortunately now the FIA seems to put its clamps on more and more. SO, no innovation, lousy cars, losing fans, lose F1. Caterham is on the brink, Lotus is teetering and I don't see a lot of teams standing in line waiting to get in, only Haas right now for 2016. So while the FIA will cheer that their over-abundant meddling in the sport is "eco friendly" it's killing their prized series. Much like when they killed the Mulsane Straight, we have lost something in racing and I've already discontinued going to F1 races until they start listening to their fans again.
Sprint racing is great to see! I recommend it to everybody I know.
No, there's things I like about Windows and hate about it. Just like Solaris has it's quirks but more often than not the software solution drives the platform, not the other way round.
A lot of car makers left F1 in the past, Mercedes has returned, but Honda, BMW and Toyota have left. Honda will be back but only because of the V6 synergy and Nissan does have a relationship with Renault but unfortunately that's not going to probably equate to something you and I would drive for a long time. Motor Racing does help drive innovation but in a sport where the FIA have virtually done away with any concept of innovation, it'll be difficult to see how this new formula will enhance the sport or spur innovation in day to day cars. Fans are leaving, sponsors are worried and that means no money and a dead series coming soon.
the 100kg/hr fuel flow rate limiting is why all teams are well below 15K RPM and they sound like glorified Weed Eaters. The FIA have been working to enhance the sound with changing the exhaust note using a megaphone exhaust pipe. http://www.autosport.com/news/...
I've been watching F1 since the 1970s and this is the most boring, lifeless, set of machines I've seen.
Think oversized RC cars. Maybe they'll give the fans controllers and we can just get rid of those pesky drivers.