Well a couple of reasons, (and I'm hardly being a smartarse). Because they want to keep all of their profits as you say is the primary reason obviously.
Which is fine. But if you wish to do business in a country and this goes for any country and use that countries civil resources and not be called a leech then you've got to pay *some* taxes. However much that amount is is open to debate, but the number is more than ZERO which is what many of these corps pay or are trying to pay.
But then they love the solid court systems when they tie them up for 10 years in civil litigation.
They love the military when some "socialist" country nationalises "their" resources.
They love the CIA when they don't like the leader of any particular country.
They love the Federal highways and Motorways when they want to move their goods.
They love the Navy when they want their goods protected from pirates.
They love the police force when it's time to bust unions.
But they don't want to *pay* for ANY OF IT, they want US to.
The US doesn't have "extremely high taxes." Compared to the third world it does I suppose but if that's the comparison that has to be made then that's pretty sad.
Compared to the first world it's in the lower end.
"Because you fail to understand basic economics, that's why."
No no I don't. And you've set up one big fat straw man to knock down there in your long ideologically driven fairy tale.
I get it - you found religion in Randian free market economic theory. Very nice, the *real* world has what we call leeching bastards. People who will *live* in a country, use said countries resources as paid for by *everyone else* to make themselves billions of dollars and then work as hard as they can to pay NOTHING into the system that everyone else has worked towards setting up and maintaining that protects said leeching bastard to allow them to make that sort of money in the first place.
I suppose you think the old aristocracies deserved their position as well. Well I guess they had plenty of lick-spittles too!
"Socialist Worker's Paradise Reality" Lol ok what? That was a joke if you read my last post. I'm a contractor - self employed or in other words a small business. You know the real engine of every economy on earth. I'm about as far from "Socialist" as is *realistically* possible without becoming...well, like you.
One thing that the corporate world can count on when they whinge about making billions instead of tens of billions is the 21st centuries version of the "useful idiot" - I.e "libertarians" that will come running to take their defense (defending a government created legal entity strangely enough) when they make these extraordinary claims that they actually have to pay into the system that lets them make that sort of profit in the first place.
(Sorry Liberatarians, I'm pretty down on you in this thread but I really do like the idea! I love the show Freedom Watch and really like Ron Paul and all that but...it's just that as usual a good *ideal* has been hi-jacked by sycophants and lick-spittles. So with regret I have to take the side of sanity and reality).
Then again now I now know how 1920s communists must have felt when the same type of group took over their ideology and turned it into a vehicle for themselves, so it gives me a better insight into history at least.
Internet "libertarians" seem to forget one imperative thing: Corporations are a 100% Government created *legal* entity. There is NO natural right to form a corporation, "God" or whoever must have forgotten to include that in the package and I'm sure he's very sorry Randians.
So without government power there's NO SUCH THING as a limited liability Corporation. All that exists are sole traders.
So if the government creates it, the government can tax it, destroy it or rule it as it sees fit. If the corp doesn't like it, it may disband at any time and the owners can become sole traders and not be liable under these regulations.
Pretty bloody simple isn't it?
Sometimes I think that many people here long for an aristocracy to rule them.
"You get crappy product because the offshore teams give you EXACTLY what you ask them for, instead of working with you to understand the goal and produce a result that makes more sense."
To true,
I've worked on three projects in the last year alone that were initially outsourced to India then brought back because of the abysmal final product.
This is why I don't care one whit when companies outsource. We get to charge more when they inevitably bring it back and give it to us tail between the legs to get us to "fix" the problems. It'd be cheaper to start again but there's usually pride at stake so we let them do what they need to do to save face. Unfortunately others have gone broke instead of admitting that they fucked up trying to save a couple of dollars.
It's a bit of an inside joke in the industry here. A mate of mine working in another company and has had two major projects in the last six months for the same reason.
I don't know what goes on over there, but I've seen swaths of code that are worse than *anything* I've ever seen even from beginners. Lots of it seems like something a code generator would spit out, but it's all logic so who I don't see how. Unless they're super advanced genuiuses and are creating AI to auto write programs or something... geez that'd be a problem! Then again the AI is writing some pretty crap code so maybe not.:)
Slashdot "libertarians" *never* respond to what I call "The Somalia Bomb".
See it interferes with their religion, that there already exists a country already that they define as "paradise" which is just a hell hole doesn't match up with their fairy tale. So don't go upsetting the religious people with facts and reality and the like. It's impolite and they get all riled and carry on about "Rand this" and "barrel of a gun" that for no good reason. Just let them rant, nobody's really listening outside of their echo chamber so it doesn't matter.
"Besides, IMHO...corporate tax is useless, it is just a hidden tax on the consumer, since a corporation just passes this off onto the consumer as part of their cost of a product."
Why does this ridiculous soundbite keep getting regurgitated *every single time* this topic comes up?
If corporations don't pay tax as so many Internet corporate lick-spittles shriek, then they wouldn't need ridiculously twisted foreign tax accounts and be prancing around like sooks when someone comes along and tells them to meet their obligations in their home countries would they? They would just happily pass this tax burden it along.
That's right logic doesn't come into a discussion where fanatical ideologists are hopping up and down does it?
Second the same argument could be made for *anyone* who runs a business. "Small business owners don't pay personal income or sales tax, they just pass it along in the price of the goods & services their business sells, so they shouldn't be taxed".
The whole "argument" completely ignores competition, elasticity and old fashioned out of date sneered at "patriotism".
Good god.
The worst thing about it all, is you all point to Ireland as some sort of bastion of economic freedom and some sort of idol, completely ignoring the fact that Ireland has been hit harder than *any* other country since the depression due to it's low tax rates and lax corporate regulations and now has a debt of 800% of GDP and all the multinationals that used and abused her are now running back to their safe secure and regulated home countries post haste!
But yeah, the US should definitely aspire to be more like Ireland or Poland or fucking "Mumbai" as some tool below puts it. What a great idea.
"Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak........."
Yeah and then the proletariat will arise, over throw the capitalist swine and bring about the new workers paradise!!
Oh whoops sorry, got my fairy tale mixed up with yours.
In any case I await the magnificent new OS that's about to be released from that amazing new software company based in the ultra business friendly 0% tax rate country of Somalia. It's going to be released any day now right?! The free market demands it!
In this day and age blind fanaticism to simplistic ideologies is a little ridiculous to say the least.
Then they realised that to gain the respect they crave it would be cheaper to just *buy* the US instead of sending a man to the moon and after counting their pennies went down that path instead.
I think that you "Sir" - (tired old Slashdot cliche that needs to die) need to address your own shortcomings before berating others.
A few posts ago you stated categorically that Autism is genetic.
You then used your "molecular biology" credentials to try and use an appeal to authority to give more validation to your side of the argument.
Now you've completely reversed your above statement and have stated that nobody knows what causes Autism, something you absolutely *lambasted* the parent for saying himself three posts before.
From a disinterested observer - I'd say at best you're just as bad as he is, neither of you know what the hell your talking about, but he's just speaking from ignorance and and he's the guy that's bringing up an autistic kid - a condition than is pretty much and unknown to science. So I'll cut him some serious slack. You on the other hand are just trying to appear all knowing and authoritative purely to boost your own ego and feverish belief in science as some sort of all knowing entity. The fact that you go to such depths to do that and then abuse some poor guy who's just trying to find answers where science - as yet - has very little, to boost your own ego and rationalise your own obviously overly excited belief....Makes you just come off looking like a cunt (sorry).
"Never try to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and it annoys the pig." - Only the biggest egotist thinks that A): They can sing when they obviously can't, and B) Insults the pig when they completely fail to do anything other than make *themselves* look like an horses arse.
"It's no different than if the UK decided to make marijuana legal. The central EU government can not overrule them."
You won't be saying that in 10, 20 or 50 years time.
Eventually it will simply be assumed that the EU government has that power and people who argue that it shouldn't or doesn't will be seen as "conservatives" and "kooks" and obsolete.
Same thing happened in the US.
Same thing is happening in Australia.
Same thing will happen in that power structure too.
In the ACT, Australia, there's public health care for all *and* decriminalised pot. The Australian Federal government has never brought in the tyranny that you and others like you seem to be so sure will come about with universal healthcare, and we've had it for decades.
So your argument is provably wrong.
Don't be so extreme in your views Jmorris for otherwise good points you make get thrown out because of the one or two ridiculous provably wrong ultra conservative talking points you seem to always drop in to your posts.
I mean, tell me why teenagers would go from smoking pot (something teens have been doing since the '70s) to cocaine if pot were legalised? You seem to state that it's a provable fact instead of a complete (if rather odd) fantasy in your mind. If a teen has access to pot, which most do then it's already not much of an extension for them to get access to coke or speed or ecstasy. And yes I do speak from some sort of experience on the subject which is something it would seem that you do not have.
But those days are over for me now, the partying and clubbing and fun and now I'm a boring old parent trying to figure out why the left wing wants to implement an creeping nanny state and why the right wing wants to implement an authoritarian big daddy state and what the hell I'm to do to protect my kids future selves from both.
But I do agree on you with one thing in your post - nobody actually wants freedom anymore, just a tiny insignificant fraction of nobodies like us. And if there's one thing that the left and right can vigorously agree upon, it's how much people like us are unwelcome in todays sharing and caring western "society".
I have exactly one mod point left which I'd love to use in a topic like this, but I'd rather reply to you as it appears that as usual the paternal government believers on this site are sending you to +5 post haste.
1. Anybody who believes the politicians "we" elect "know what's best" for society better than anyone else should probably not be voting...or using sharp objects. 2. There's this raw and quite ugly (yes I'll use the word) elitism that runs on these sorts of sites where tech-nerdy loner types hang out. Never ending snorting and hrmphing at the stupidity of the "masses", misplaced snobbery, tortured "logic" and outright hypocrisy.
After spending 9 years reading this site and other various sites like it kuro5hin, digg, reddit, etc. I truly have come to the disturbing conclusion that despite much of the fawning over libertarian ideals (which have a nice appeal in many ways), huge swaths of the users that frequent these sites really deep down just want to be ruled by kings.
I mean here we have a prime example, the US federal government sets up a site to let the general public let it know without the distortion of lobbyists or twist of demographic surveys; what issues are important to the people that can access the site. Well the people that can access the site who are probably the same people snorting and hrmphing about the uselessness of democracy and the "masses" (which they inevitably define as everyone beneath themselves) have stated loud and clear that the main issue in their lives is the legalisation of a particular drug. An issue that is most likely the hub of a larger ideology in themselves.
But what I don't understand is why to many people here is that such a bad and embarrassing failure of the "masses" or democracy or open governance in general? Oh people want something that *directly* affects them in their day to day life legal? And they are *partaking* in the political process in a small way to try and make that happen...hahah well that's just stupid, democracy fails it!11.
And so what? How is that a failing except for lick-spittles who worship power? To those who have daydreams of central government politicians being great and powerful Lords and Noblemen who don't have time for the dirty masses silly little problems in between hunting down terrorists and single handedly "running the country" it's a problem, but only so far as it interrupts the illusion.
Democracy isn't perfect, but it isn't as bad as everyone here likes to smugly assume it is. And whatever the US federal government is...it's a bloody loooong way from anything resembling democracy or even the representative republic that it's supposed to be.
I hope a highly "moral and ethical" self righteous individual such as your self paid the required parties for the privilege of doing so, as that song is still under copyright.
Oh...you didn't. You and your friends STOLE someone elses hard work and used it for your own benefit without paying. Well then you're no better than anyone else so get off your high horse thief.
*Cue the hypocritical legal hand wringing "but-but fair use! Not a *real* public performance!!11" Sorry, tell it to a judge.
I understand the point you're trying to make, and the Chinese government is certainly a hulking tyranical mess. But I think in regards to the point you're trying to make you'll find you could just as easily replace the word "Chinese" with "American", "Russian" or to a lesser degree (simply by lower volume) "Canadian", "Australian" or "English" in your post and it would read the same, in fact I'm married to an english girl and often have to fill her in on her own countries not so palatable exploits when she goes on about the great british empire. Some she's aware of but brushes of as anti-british BS, much she refuses to believe and even more she simply never heard about.
I.e. The vast majority of the populace in *every* country are unaware of their own countries sordid military history. Embarrasing defeats and unpopular wars certainly aren't taught in government schools or discussed in the main stream media in any meaningful way untill generations have passed.
How many men died in Gulf War one?
Who put Suddam Hussein in power?
Who's "The Shah"?
Who backed, trained and funded Osama...
People around here would have a rough idea, but go out onto the streets of the US and I bet you any amount of money you'll find the same blank stares or some mindless pro-government response in 99% of people. Probably for exactly the same reason as anywhere, most people don't give a shit what their government does to other people in distant lands...
"Well you didn't have to go to all that trouble, we would have given the tech to you if you promise to keep buying our debt... . . . please for the love of god keep buying our debt" - US Government
Last centuries fiction in all categories was borne out of a generation of people who had seen with their own eyes humanity at it's absolute worst on a world wide scale. Half a billion dead in two wars that were made only possible because of the newest technology of the day that were waged because of the "modern" way of life - huge unfettered 'corporations' (that make this centuries look like charities by comparison) combined with exchanges, central banks, industrial power and most importantly instant communications allowed tiny political groups to position themselves to occupy the politically doe-eyed whole world with only a small number of men in (the critical part) - *direct* command of everything.
This was in contrast to most of human history where money, productivity and command was extremely decentralised by comparison. Take Australia for example, it used to take *six months* for a letter sent from England to arrive in Australia. It was largely self governed simply because day to day and month to month issues physically couldn't be dealt with by the central government. So power had to be delegated and with that delegation came (often to fury of the central government) - enormous amounts of dilution and personal interpretation of the governments wishes by everyone in the chain.
Anyway, I think you'll find that a lot of the pie in the sky fiction from last century was people desperately trying to search and carve out a new hope for a broken people. They were the optimists, saying - "look, technology could make life *great* if we just try!"
Yeah do like Ireland did! Whoring themselves out to multinationals has worked out *perfectly* for them.
They're doing really well now, now that all those multi-nationals that they sold themelves out out to have run back to their own countries where all those 'high' tax rates and corporate regulations offer a little bit of protection to them...
If all you have to offer is low tax rates to attract big businesses, then you've got nothing.
Give it the tech "athiests" on the net! Who bitch mercilessly about people using "Think of the children" to justify their arguments...except when it comes to their own pet ideologies.
I've seen it used at least 20 times in this thread alone.
Good to see burning hypocrisy is as rife here as it is elsewhere, such as in the church. You'd get along really well with the pastor of the church that I was "forced" into as a child.
Of course as soon as I became a functioning adult it took about five minutes to decide in my self that it was all a bit of bull, but apparently according to the white middle class know it all 20-something "athiests" on Slashdot I'm hopelessly brainwashed and cannot possibly have a conscious thought after all that insidious indoctrination by my ultra abusive parent!
Why it is *them* who are the truth and the light and know all!
Slashdot Mirror
"Ok, smartass, WHY DO THEY AVOID TAXES?"
Well a couple of reasons, (and I'm hardly being a smartarse). Because they want to keep all of their profits as you say is the primary reason obviously.
Which is fine. But if you wish to do business in a country and this goes for any country and use that countries civil resources and not be called a leech then you've got to pay *some* taxes. However much that amount is is open to debate, but the number is more than ZERO which is what many of these corps pay or are trying to pay.
But then they love the solid court systems when they tie them up for 10 years in civil litigation.
They love the military when some "socialist" country nationalises "their" resources.
They love the CIA when they don't like the leader of any particular country.
They love the Federal highways and Motorways when they want to move their goods.
They love the Navy when they want their goods protected from pirates.
They love the police force when it's time to bust unions.
But they don't want to *pay* for ANY OF IT, they want US to.
That's the problem.
"avoiding extremely high US taxes."
This I don't understand.
The US doesn't have "extremely high taxes." Compared to the third world it does I suppose but if that's the comparison that has to be made then that's pretty sad.
Compared to the first world it's in the lower end.
"Because you fail to understand basic economics, that's why."
No no I don't. And you've set up one big fat straw man to knock down there in your long ideologically driven fairy tale.
I get it - you found religion in Randian free market economic theory. Very nice, the *real* world has what we call leeching bastards. People who will *live* in a country, use said countries resources as paid for by *everyone else* to make themselves billions of dollars and then work as hard as they can to pay NOTHING into the system that everyone else has worked towards setting up and maintaining that protects said leeching bastard to allow them to make that sort of money in the first place.
I suppose you think the old aristocracies deserved their position as well. Well I guess they had plenty of lick-spittles too!
"Socialist Worker's Paradise Reality" Lol ok what? That was a joke if you read my last post. I'm a contractor - self employed or in other words a small business. You know the real engine of every economy on earth. I'm about as far from "Socialist" as is *realistically* possible without becoming...well, like you.
I'm also allergic to religious fanatics.
One thing that the corporate world can count on when they whinge about making billions instead of tens of billions is the 21st centuries version of the "useful idiot" - I.e "libertarians" that will come running to take their defense (defending a government created legal entity strangely enough) when they make these extraordinary claims that they actually have to pay into the system that lets them make that sort of profit in the first place.
(Sorry Liberatarians, I'm pretty down on you in this thread but I really do like the idea! I love the show Freedom Watch and really like Ron Paul and all that but...it's just that as usual a good *ideal* has been hi-jacked by sycophants and lick-spittles. So with regret I have to take the side of sanity and reality).
Then again now I now know how 1920s communists must have felt when the same type of group took over their ideology and turned it into a vehicle for themselves, so it gives me a better insight into history at least.
Internet "libertarians" seem to forget one imperative thing: Corporations are a 100% Government created *legal* entity. There is NO natural right to form a corporation, "God" or whoever must have forgotten to include that in the package and I'm sure he's very sorry Randians.
So without government power there's NO SUCH THING as a limited liability Corporation. All that exists are sole traders.
So if the government creates it, the government can tax it, destroy it or rule it as it sees fit. If the corp doesn't like it, it may disband at any time and the owners can become sole traders and not be liable under these regulations.
Pretty bloody simple isn't it?
Sometimes I think that many people here long for an aristocracy to rule them.
"You get crappy product because the offshore teams give you EXACTLY what you ask them for, instead of working with you to understand the goal and produce a result that makes more sense."
To true,
I've worked on three projects in the last year alone that were initially outsourced to India then brought back because of the abysmal final product.
This is why I don't care one whit when companies outsource. We get to charge more when they inevitably bring it back and give it to us tail between the legs to get us to "fix" the problems. It'd be cheaper to start again but there's usually pride at stake so we let them do what they need to do to save face. Unfortunately others have gone broke instead of admitting that they fucked up trying to save a couple of dollars.
It's a bit of an inside joke in the industry here. A mate of mine working in another company and has had two major projects in the last six months for the same reason.
I don't know what goes on over there, but I've seen swaths of code that are worse than *anything* I've ever seen even from beginners. Lots of it seems like something a code generator would spit out, but it's all logic so who I don't see how. Unless they're super advanced genuiuses and are creating AI to auto write programs or something... geez that'd be a problem! Then again the AI is writing some pretty crap code so maybe not. :)
Slashdot "libertarians" *never* respond to what I call "The Somalia Bomb".
See it interferes with their religion, that there already exists a country already that they define as "paradise" which is just a hell hole doesn't match up with their fairy tale. So don't go upsetting the religious people with facts and reality and the like. It's impolite and they get all riled and carry on about "Rand this" and "barrel of a gun" that for no good reason. Just let them rant, nobody's really listening outside of their echo chamber so it doesn't matter.
Err, corporation..not country.
Don't do it!
Just remodel your tiny little insignificant country known as the USA after one of the economic powerhouses like, Ireland, Poland or India!
Then you too will enjoy the same high standard of living, quality of life, and a never before seen economic stability that those countries do.
The Slashdot "libertarians" swear it's true and I certainly believe them!
If you think any country moves to China for their cheap tax rates and economic freedom your in for a little shock.
Dirty cheap labour on the other hand...
"Besides, IMHO...corporate tax is useless, it is just a hidden tax on the consumer, since a corporation just passes this off onto the consumer as part
of their cost of a product."
Why does this ridiculous soundbite keep getting regurgitated *every single time* this topic comes up?
If corporations don't pay tax as so many Internet corporate lick-spittles shriek, then they wouldn't need ridiculously twisted foreign tax accounts and be prancing around like sooks when someone comes along and tells them to meet their obligations in their home countries would they? They would just happily pass this tax burden it along.
That's right logic doesn't come into a discussion where fanatical ideologists are hopping up and down does it?
Second the same argument could be made for *anyone* who runs a business. "Small business owners don't pay personal income or sales tax, they just pass it along in the price of the goods & services their business sells, so they shouldn't be taxed".
The whole "argument" completely ignores competition, elasticity and old fashioned out of date sneered at "patriotism".
Good god.
The worst thing about it all, is you all point to Ireland as some sort of bastion of economic freedom and some sort of idol, completely ignoring the fact that Ireland has been hit harder than *any* other country since the depression due to it's low tax rates and lax corporate regulations and now has a debt of 800% of GDP and all the multinationals that used and abused her are now running back to their safe secure and regulated home countries post haste!
But yeah, the US should definitely aspire to be more like Ireland or Poland or fucking "Mumbai" as some tool below puts it. What a great idea.
"Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak........."
I'll say...
Yeah and then the proletariat will arise, over throw the capitalist swine and bring about the new workers paradise!!
Oh whoops sorry, got my fairy tale mixed up with yours.
In any case I await the magnificent new OS that's about to be released from that amazing new software company based in the ultra business friendly 0% tax rate country of Somalia. It's going to be released any day now right?! The free market demands it!
In this day and age blind fanaticism to simplistic ideologies is a little ridiculous to say the least.
Then they realised that to gain the respect they crave it would be cheaper to just *buy* the US instead of sending a man to the moon and after counting their pennies went down that path instead.
Went pretty well for them!
I think that you "Sir" - (tired old Slashdot cliche that needs to die) need to address your own shortcomings before berating others.
A few posts ago you stated categorically that Autism is genetic.
You then used your "molecular biology" credentials to try and use an appeal to authority to give more validation to your side of the argument.
Now you've completely reversed your above statement and have stated that nobody knows what causes Autism, something you absolutely *lambasted* the parent for saying himself three posts before.
From a disinterested observer - I'd say at best you're just as bad as he is, neither of you know what the hell your talking about, but he's just speaking from ignorance and and he's the guy that's bringing up an autistic kid - a condition than is pretty much and unknown to science. So I'll cut him some serious slack. You on the other hand are just trying to appear all knowing and authoritative purely to boost your own ego and feverish belief in science as some sort of all knowing entity. The fact that you go to such depths to do that and then abuse some poor guy who's just trying to find answers where science - as yet - has very little, to boost your own ego and rationalise your own obviously overly excited belief....Makes you just come off looking like a cunt (sorry).
"Never try to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and it annoys the pig." - Only the biggest egotist thinks that A): They can sing when they obviously can't, and B) Insults the pig when they completely fail to do anything other than make *themselves* look like an horses arse.
"It's no different than if the UK decided to make marijuana legal. The central EU government can not overrule them."
You won't be saying that in 10, 20 or 50 years time.
Eventually it will simply be assumed that the EU government has that power and people who argue that it shouldn't or doesn't will be seen as "conservatives" and "kooks" and obsolete.
Same thing happened in the US.
Same thing is happening in Australia.
Same thing will happen in that power structure too.
It's inevitable.
In the ACT, Australia, there's public health care for all *and* decriminalised pot. The Australian Federal government has never brought in the tyranny that you and others like you seem to be so sure will come about with universal healthcare, and we've had it for decades.
So your argument is provably wrong.
Don't be so extreme in your views Jmorris for otherwise good points you make get thrown out because of the one or two ridiculous provably wrong ultra conservative talking points you seem to always drop in to your posts.
I mean, tell me why teenagers would go from smoking pot (something teens have been doing since the '70s) to cocaine if pot were legalised? You seem to state that it's a provable fact instead of a complete (if rather odd) fantasy in your mind. If a teen has access to pot, which most do then it's already not much of an extension for them to get access to coke or speed or ecstasy. And yes I do speak from some sort of experience on the subject which is something it would seem that you do not have.
But those days are over for me now, the partying and clubbing and fun and now I'm a boring old parent trying to figure out why the left wing wants to implement an creeping nanny state and why the right wing wants to implement an authoritarian big daddy state and what the hell I'm to do to protect my kids future selves from both.
But I do agree on you with one thing in your post - nobody actually wants freedom anymore, just a tiny insignificant fraction of nobodies like us. And if there's one thing that the left and right can vigorously agree upon, it's how much people like us are unwelcome in todays sharing and caring western "society".
I have exactly one mod point left which I'd love to use in a topic like this, but I'd rather reply to you as it appears that as usual the paternal government believers on this site are sending you to +5 post haste.
1. Anybody who believes the politicians "we" elect "know what's best" for society better than anyone else should probably not be voting...or using sharp objects.
2. There's this raw and quite ugly (yes I'll use the word) elitism that runs on these sorts of sites where tech-nerdy loner types hang out. Never ending snorting and hrmphing at the stupidity of the "masses", misplaced snobbery, tortured "logic" and outright hypocrisy.
After spending 9 years reading this site and other various sites like it kuro5hin, digg, reddit, etc. I truly have come to the disturbing conclusion that despite much of the fawning over libertarian ideals (which have a nice appeal in many ways), huge swaths of the users that frequent these sites really deep down just want to be ruled by kings.
I mean here we have a prime example, the US federal government sets up a site to let the general public let it know without the distortion of lobbyists or twist of demographic surveys; what issues are important to the people that can access the site. Well the people that can access the site who are probably the same people snorting and hrmphing about the uselessness of democracy and the "masses" (which they inevitably define as everyone beneath themselves) have stated loud and clear that the main issue in their lives is the legalisation of a particular drug. An issue that is most likely the hub of a larger ideology in themselves.
But what I don't understand is why to many people here is that such a bad and embarrassing failure of the "masses" or democracy or open governance in general? Oh people want something that *directly* affects them in their day to day life legal? And they are *partaking* in the political process in a small way to try and make that happen...hahah well that's just stupid, democracy fails it!11.
And so what? How is that a failing except for lick-spittles who worship power? To those who have daydreams of central government politicians being great and powerful Lords and Noblemen who don't have time for the dirty masses silly little problems in between hunting down terrorists and single handedly "running the country" it's a problem, but only so far as it interrupts the illusion.
Democracy isn't perfect, but it isn't as bad as everyone here likes to smugly assume it is. And whatever the US federal government is...it's a bloody loooong way from anything resembling democracy or even the representative republic that it's supposed to be.
"Do people have a right to complain if they aren't willing to lift a finger to protect themselves?"
Why yes, yes they do.
You ever sung Happy Birthday at a party?
I hope a highly "moral and ethical" self righteous individual such as your self paid the required parties for the privilege of doing so, as that song is still under copyright.
Oh...you didn't. You and your friends STOLE someone elses hard work and used it for your own benefit without paying. Well then you're no better than anyone else so get off your high horse thief.
*Cue the hypocritical legal hand wringing "but-but fair use! Not a *real* public performance!!11" Sorry, tell it to a judge.
I understand the point you're trying to make, and the Chinese government is certainly a hulking tyranical mess. But I think in regards to the point you're trying to make you'll find you could just as easily replace the word "Chinese" with "American", "Russian" or to a lesser degree (simply by lower volume) "Canadian", "Australian" or "English" in your post and it would read the same, in fact I'm married to an english girl and often have to fill her in on her own countries not so palatable exploits when she goes on about the great british empire. Some she's aware of but brushes of as anti-british BS, much she refuses to believe and even more she simply never heard about.
I.e. The vast majority of the populace in *every* country are unaware of their own countries sordid military history. Embarrasing defeats and unpopular wars certainly aren't taught in government schools or discussed in the main stream media in any meaningful way untill generations have passed.
How many men died in Gulf War one?
Who put Suddam Hussein in power?
Who's "The Shah"?
Who backed, trained and funded Osama...
People around here would have a rough idea, but go out onto the streets of the US and I bet you any amount of money you'll find the same blank stares or some mindless pro-government response in 99% of people. Probably for exactly the same reason as anywhere, most people don't give a shit what their government does to other people in distant lands...
Chinese, American, Russian or anywhere else.
"Well you didn't have to go to all that trouble, we would have given the tech to you if you promise to keep buying our debt...
.
.
.
please for the love of god keep buying our debt" - US Government
Last centuries fiction in all categories was borne out of a generation of people who had seen with their own eyes humanity at it's absolute worst on a world wide scale. Half a billion dead in two wars that were made only possible because of the newest technology of the day that were waged because of the "modern" way of life - huge unfettered 'corporations' (that make this centuries look like charities by comparison) combined with exchanges, central banks, industrial power and most importantly instant communications allowed tiny political groups to position themselves to occupy the politically doe-eyed whole world with only a small number of men in (the critical part) - *direct* command of everything.
This was in contrast to most of human history where money, productivity and command was extremely decentralised by comparison. Take Australia for example, it used to take *six months* for a letter sent from England to arrive in Australia. It was largely self governed simply because day to day and month to month issues physically couldn't be dealt with by the central government. So power had to be delegated and with that delegation came (often to fury of the central government) - enormous amounts of dilution and personal interpretation of the governments wishes by everyone in the chain.
Anyway, I think you'll find that a lot of the pie in the sky fiction from last century was people desperately trying to search and carve out a new hope for a broken people. They were the optimists, saying - "look, technology could make life *great* if we just try!"
And they were largely right.
Yeah do like Ireland did! Whoring themselves out to multinationals has worked out *perfectly* for them.
They're doing really well now, now that all those multi-nationals that they sold themelves out out to have run back to their own countries where all those 'high' tax rates and corporate regulations offer a little bit of protection to them...
If all you have to offer is low tax rates to attract big businesses, then you've got nothing.
Have I woken up in some sort of parallel world where "eated" is even a word?!!
Who are you people?!
Give it the tech "athiests" on the net! Who bitch mercilessly about people using "Think of the children" to justify their arguments...except when it comes to their own pet ideologies.
I've seen it used at least 20 times in this thread alone.
Good to see burning hypocrisy is as rife here as it is elsewhere, such as in the church. You'd get along really well with the pastor of the church that I was "forced" into as a child.
Of course as soon as I became a functioning adult it took about five minutes to decide in my self that it was all a bit of bull, but apparently according to the white middle class know it all 20-something "athiests" on Slashdot I'm hopelessly brainwashed and cannot possibly have a conscious thought after all that insidious indoctrination by my ultra abusive parent!
Why it is *them* who are the truth and the light and know all!
Won't somebody think of the children?!