Yes, he was. You can read the email correspondence between him and Stanton for starters. Even on Twitter, his first response there when asked to help was to say that he would if needed, but he assumes the Thai government has this under control.
In Ontario, lots. They had a $14k EV credit. Remember, when you're talking about how much money a person needs to be buying one, you're talking post-credit. Also, post-energy savings. So for example, the average US consumer saves about $1k per year driving a Model 3. So tack years of that on to the $7500 US federal credit, plus any state credits, and again, you can readily get up to the $14k needed for a Model 3 LR PUP RWD to be $35k.
On average, yes, they're spending more than the average car when buying a Model 3. But not hugely more than average. So trying to portray this as some sort of "rich buyers" buying Model 3s simply falls flat. They're just not spending that much more, when all costs and savings are factored in, than the average car in the US.
Yes, you can "go out and buy one", assuming that you live in the US or Canada and don't want air suspension, SR battery, non-PUP, cream interior on a non-Performance vehicle, or a trailer hitch (all of these are upcoming). US and Canadian waiting times on these Model 3 variants are not exceptional:
The BMW 340i has an EPA rated city range of 336 miles [thecarconnection.com] (16 gallons, 21 MPG), the Tesla Model 3 LR has a range of 310 (according to Tesla [tesla.com].
310 miles is a "downrated EPA combined range". The Model 3 LR RWD tested in at 318mi hwy, 334mi combined and 347mi city. As you may note, 347 is greater than 336. Even ignoring that the BMW on any average day will only have some random percentage of its tank filled.
(The reason for the downrating is, beyond the fact that EPA ratings are too optimistic, is so that Tesla can mark all of its Model 3 variants as having the same range, including less efficient ones like Performance)
The BMW 340i can be refueled in under 10 minutes, the Tesla Model 3 takes a bit longer
The Model 3 can be refilled in 15 seconds of your time. Plug in when you get home, disconnect when you leave. Who cares how long it takes while you're asleep? That's not your time. The time it charges in your garage does not in any way waste minutes of your life. Unlike stopping at a gas station at regular intervals throughout your regular life.
On long trips - aka, the exception, not the rule - you charge in the time a typical person spends on meal and bathroom/stretch breaks. But that's tangential to how most people spend most of their time in their vehicles.
1) "Lap records" does not equal "Performance": There's lots of fast cars that don't show up frequently on that list. 2) Previous Tesla models were not designed for sustained track duty (Model 3 is).
In terms of performance, Tesla outclasses BMW. Straight out, dollar for dollar, unsubsidized and not counting energy savings. And roughly matches it on weight (sometimes even besting it).
Drive 10 miles in any direction and you will pass 6 - 10 gas stations
Because gasoline cars have to stop there in their everyday lives. EVs simply don't need that many charging stations, because most charging is done at home.
time required to charge your battery.
About the same amount of time as meal and stretch / bathroom breaks. But road trips are the exception, not the rule, of course. In your normal everyday driving, an EV's driver is consistent: "nearly full". ICE drivers wake up to a random amount of range. It might be 600km. It might be 100km. Roll the dice.
They could roll out an EV tomorrow that only needs a recharge every 1000 miles but people are not going to all much out and get rid of their gas powered vehicles and by a new EV.
Norway has demonstrated otherwise.
When you build a fast charging network, and EVs become affordable, people switch. En masse.
Really looking forward to camping in my Model 3. Don't need to "take extra gas" because your efficiency doesn't plummet off the scale on slow backcountry roads. No risk of burning out a clutch either. Climate control without needing to idle an engine all night. Can't wait:) Come on, Eurospec!
Some similarities? Oh come on. The original description of the credit:
``SEC. 30D. NEW QUALIFIED PLUG-IN ELECTRIC DRIVE MOTOR VEHICLES. ``(A) $2,500, plus ``(B) $417 for each kilowatt hour of traction battery capacity in excess of 4 kilowatt hours. ``(b) Limitations.— ``(1) Limitation based on weight.—The amount of the credit allowed under subsection (a) by reason of subsection (a)(2) shall not exceed— ``(A) $7,500, in the case of any new qualified plug-in electric drive motor vehicle with a gross vehicle weight rating of not more than 10,000 pounds,...
The replacement:
‘‘(1) IN GENERAL.—The amount determined under this subsection with respect to any new qualified plug-in electric drive motor vehicle is the sum of the amounts determined under paragraphs (2) and (3) with respect to such vehicle. ‘‘(2) BASE AMOUNT.—The amount determined under this paragraph is $2,500. ‘‘(3) BATTERY CAPACITY.—In the case of a vehicle which draws propulsion energy from a battery with not less than 5 kilowatt hours of capacity, the amount determined under this paragraph is $417, plus $417 for each kilowatt hour of capacity in excess of 5 kilowatt hours. The amount determined under this paragraph shall not exceed $5,000.
It's the exact same credit value. Yes, they changed it from a total vehicles (250k) to a per-manufacturer (200k) limit, but the credit itself was established in 2008.
Please tell me what you find here to be some sort of "sharp", onerous limitations that were subsequently dropped.
Of course he has flaws - he's a human being. People call each other bad things on Twitter all the time. People call him bad things on Twitter all the time.
Was it a mistake, to respond to a stranger telling you to shove your donation of time and money up your ass, with name calling? Of course it was. What do you want him to do, delete the tweets? He already did that. What else? Climb the Statue of Liberty and flagellate himself? What will be a good enough pennance in your mind, for the crime of not being perfect?
The current US credit was codified into law in the Energy Improvement and Extension Act of 2008. It was never "replaced"; it was insignificantly modified by ARRA and ACES, but generally kept in its original form.
Hard to say. SR is expected around the end of the year. Not clear whether it'll be before or after the New Year. Regardless, people will get the half credit.
Also, point of interest: this whole discussion only applies to the US.
You realize that Tesla lives and dies by being able to sell profitable EVs (and normally earns 25% margins on its cars, and is looking to be net profitable starting this quarter), while most manufacturers just sell EVs as loss-leader "compliance cars" for ZEV states, right?
The average sale price of a car in the US is $36k. A person buying a post-tax-credit Model 3 (or Leaf, or Bolt, or pretty much any), and saving ~$1k a year in energy costs, is not "rich" for being able to do so.
And the point of tax credits is not to directly pay for the reduced environmental impact of said specific vehicle. Its to accelerate the trend toward production and adoption of them, particularly in terms of allowing for mass production and thus lower unit costs. Which means a subsidy when total sales volumes are low, tapering out when it starts to reach the point where the cost of the subsidy would be meaningful.
Tesla did no such thing, and your article says no such thing.
We asked Tesla about this, and a Tesla spokesperson said that nothing has changed. "Tesla plans to introduce the $35,000 version in the future," she said—though she couldn't give a specific time frame for the new lower price.
"It's a mistake to position this as a change in Tesla's plan because it's not," she told Ars in a phone interview. "We're just focusing on the options that are available now for our customers so that it's more clear. There's nothing else to it."
Indeed, discussion of the $35k Model 3 remains all over the Tesla site. What it doesn't appear on is the config page. Just like how other things like air suspension, cream interior for non-performance cars, non-PUP, trailer hitch, and a trunk full of live bees don't appear on the page - because you can't order a car in that configuration at the moment.
But by all means, keep up the concern trolling.
Lastly: you cannot buy a BMW for $35k that matches the performance of a Model 3 you can buy today. All issues of tax credits and energy savings aside.
The situation is going to just be silly soon. Next up, GM is going to hit it. Then Nissan, then Ford. So the US will be subsidizing its foreign competition.
Model 3 weights are about the same as their performance equivalents in the same size class from BMW (3 Series). It takes about ten minutes each time time to dig up all the references, so I'm not going to be bothered to do it again for the tenth time, but if you want to do it yourself: Model 3 SR roughly matches up with a BMW 330i, Model 3 LR roughly matches up with a 340i. Don't forget to add in roughly half a tank of gas to the BMWs. Beyond these, Dual Motor adds a lot of performance for just a small extra weight penalty (Model 3 SR dual motor might even end up faster than the 340i), and Performance adds even more.
But I know you guys prefer to mismatch size classes when you do your comparisons, so by all means;)
Model 3 LR also goes further in city driving on a full charge than the 340i goes on a full tank, by the way;) And the former starts out every day charged; the latter averages half a tank available on any given day. The 340i only beats the LR on range in combined and highway driving.
News Flash: Uncivility on Twitter! Person insults someone on twitter, target insults back! Quick, reserve the front page of the New York Times for the next week!
And for the record: Musk was asked by one of the dive co-leads to make the sub, and it was made to his specifications. This whole situation is ridiculous.
LOL. By "whistleblower", you mean the sabateur who tried to frame his coworkers, had dozens of behavioral complaints against him, and threatened to shoot up the Gigafactory. But now he's pretending that none of that ever happened. No, no, he's Good Mr. Public Interest now! Couldn't have saboutaged anything - why, he doesn't even know how to program! Except, well, he does, and when that was pointed out to him, he tried to hide his Stack Overflow, Adafruit and Scribd accounts. On, and for bonus points, can anyone guess what the only other thing on his Scribd account apart from programming/sysadmin docs was? Why, gun documents!
His alibis on Twitter for his behavior are getting increasingly hilarious. Why, the gun documents and sysadmin files, those were just things he had lying around to trade for guitar tabs, dontchaknow!
Chevy Bolt production is at 576 per week. Model 3 production is at 5000 per week.
The #1 selling Sedan in the US in Q1 was the (far cheaper) Toyota Camry, at just over 18k vehicles sold per month. Depending on the US/Canada Mix, Model 3 could actually end up being the highest selling sedan of any powertrain and any price bracket in the US. And this ignores the huge numbers of vehicles (over 11k if I remember right) that are in transit, stockpiled in June. Even if there's some downtime (there was a small one around the independence day holiday) or a somewhat lower weekly average output, July figures should still be giving the (vastly cheaper) Camry a run for its money due to that.
1) It's been done countless times. Where's the fun in that?
2) The main advantage to the printed mirror (if it would actually work) is that - stiffened by a 3d truss rather than bulk glass - it would be dramatically lighter than a glass mirror. You're talking the ultimate in lightweighting. With basically no thermal inertia, either. Easily reproducible en masse. Receivers for mounting and collimation screws built into the design. And for a future step up, with segmented mirrors for adaptive optics designs, hinges and segment mountings built into the design as well.
Of course, the "if" is the big part. I can picture quite a few places things could go wrong. Or at least greatly complicate the process. E.g. if the stiffness is insufficient even with a truss, if thermal factors cause it to change shape unevenly, if the 3d printer isn't consistent in its grid across long distances (enough that polymer deposition can't easily overcome it), if polymer deposition on the surface doesn't work as evenly as I'd expect to smooth out the 3d printer's resolution limitations, etc, etc. It's anything but a sure thing. But it might be fun to try at some point:)
Slashdot Mirror
Yes, he was. You can read the email correspondence between him and Stanton for starters. Even on Twitter, his first response there when asked to help was to say that he would if needed, but he assumes the Thai government has this under control.
In Ontario, lots. They had a $14k EV credit. Remember, when you're talking about how much money a person needs to be buying one, you're talking post-credit. Also, post-energy savings. So for example, the average US consumer saves about $1k per year driving a Model 3. So tack years of that on to the $7500 US federal credit, plus any state credits, and again, you can readily get up to the $14k needed for a Model 3 LR PUP RWD to be $35k.
On average, yes, they're spending more than the average car when buying a Model 3. But not hugely more than average. So trying to portray this as some sort of "rich buyers" buying Model 3s simply falls flat. They're just not spending that much more, when all costs and savings are factored in, than the average car in the US.
Yes, you can "go out and buy one", assuming that you live in the US or Canada and don't want air suspension, SR battery, non-PUP, cream interior on a non-Performance vehicle, or a trailer hitch (all of these are upcoming). US and Canadian waiting times on these Model 3 variants are not exceptional:
* Performance: 1-3 months
* Dual Motor LR: 2-4 months
* RWD LR: 1-3 months
And yes, it most definitely is.
310 miles is a "downrated EPA combined range". The Model 3 LR RWD tested in at 318mi hwy, 334mi combined and 347mi city. As you may note, 347 is greater than 336. Even ignoring that the BMW on any average day will only have some random percentage of its tank filled.
(The reason for the downrating is, beyond the fact that EPA ratings are too optimistic, is so that Tesla can mark all of its Model 3 variants as having the same range, including less efficient ones like Performance)
The Model 3 can be refilled in 15 seconds of your time. Plug in when you get home, disconnect when you leave. Who cares how long it takes while you're asleep? That's not your time. The time it charges in your garage does not in any way waste minutes of your life. Unlike stopping at a gas station at regular intervals throughout your regular life.
On long trips - aka, the exception, not the rule - you charge in the time a typical person spends on meal and bathroom/stretch breaks. But that's tangential to how most people spend most of their time in their vehicles.
BZZT, try again.
1) "Lap records" does not equal "Performance": There's lots of fast cars that don't show up frequently on that list.
2) Previous Tesla models were not designed for sustained track duty (Model 3 is).
In terms of performance, Tesla outclasses BMW. Straight out, dollar for dollar, unsubsidized and not counting energy savings. And roughly matches it on weight (sometimes even besting it).
Because gasoline cars have to stop there in their everyday lives. EVs simply don't need that many charging stations, because most charging is done at home.
About the same amount of time as meal and stretch / bathroom breaks. But road trips are the exception, not the rule, of course. In your normal everyday driving, an EV's driver is consistent: "nearly full". ICE drivers wake up to a random amount of range. It might be 600km. It might be 100km. Roll the dice.
Norway has demonstrated otherwise.
When you build a fast charging network, and EVs become affordable, people switch. En masse.
99% of my country....
Really looking forward to camping in my Model 3. Don't need to "take extra gas" because your efficiency doesn't plummet off the scale on slow backcountry roads. No risk of burning out a clutch either. Climate control without needing to idle an engine all night. Can't wait :) Come on, Eurospec!
Some similarities? Oh come on. The original description of the credit:
The replacement:
It's the exact same credit value. Yes, they changed it from a total vehicles (250k) to a per-manufacturer (200k) limit, but the credit itself was established in 2008.
Please tell me what you find here to be some sort of "sharp", onerous limitations that were subsequently dropped.
If they bought when Seeking Alpha was telling them not to "go wobbly" on shorting the stock, you bet they are.
Of course he has flaws - he's a human being. People call each other bad things on Twitter all the time. People call him bad things on Twitter all the time.
Was it a mistake, to respond to a stranger telling you to shove your donation of time and money up your ass, with name calling? Of course it was. What do you want him to do, delete the tweets? He already did that. What else? Climb the Statue of Liberty and flagellate himself? What will be a good enough pennance in your mind, for the crime of not being perfect?
The current US credit was codified into law in the Energy Improvement and Extension Act of 2008. It was never "replaced"; it was insignificantly modified by ARRA and ACES, but generally kept in its original form.
Hard to say. SR is expected around the end of the year. Not clear whether it'll be before or after the New Year. Regardless, people will get the half credit.
Also, point of interest: this whole discussion only applies to the US.
What exactly is the point of the range when it's so poor at recharging by comparison?
Well, to it's credit, it's better than the new Leaf....
You realize that Tesla lives and dies by being able to sell profitable EVs (and normally earns 25% margins on its cars, and is looking to be net profitable starting this quarter), while most manufacturers just sell EVs as loss-leader "compliance cars" for ZEV states, right?
The average sale price of a car in the US is $36k. A person buying a post-tax-credit Model 3 (or Leaf, or Bolt, or pretty much any), and saving ~$1k a year in energy costs, is not "rich" for being able to do so.
And the point of tax credits is not to directly pay for the reduced environmental impact of said specific vehicle. Its to accelerate the trend toward production and adoption of them, particularly in terms of allowing for mass production and thus lower unit costs. Which means a subsidy when total sales volumes are low, tapering out when it starts to reach the point where the cost of the subsidy would be meaningful.
Tesla did no such thing, and your article says no such thing.
Indeed, discussion of the $35k Model 3 remains all over the Tesla site. What it doesn't appear on is the config page. Just like how other things like air suspension, cream interior for non-performance cars, non-PUP, trailer hitch, and a trunk full of live bees don't appear on the page - because you can't order a car in that configuration at the moment.
But by all means, keep up the concern trolling.
Lastly: you cannot buy a BMW for $35k that matches the performance of a Model 3 you can buy today. All issues of tax credits and energy savings aside.
Amazing how quickly people forget history. This tax credit was established under Bush.
The situation is going to just be silly soon. Next up, GM is going to hit it. Then Nissan, then Ford. So the US will be subsidizing its foreign competition.
Programme was established under Bush. Energy Improvement and Extension Act of 2008.
Model 3 weights are about the same as their performance equivalents in the same size class from BMW (3 Series). It takes about ten minutes each time time to dig up all the references, so I'm not going to be bothered to do it again for the tenth time, but if you want to do it yourself: Model 3 SR roughly matches up with a BMW 330i, Model 3 LR roughly matches up with a 340i. Don't forget to add in roughly half a tank of gas to the BMWs. Beyond these, Dual Motor adds a lot of performance for just a small extra weight penalty (Model 3 SR dual motor might even end up faster than the 340i), and Performance adds even more.
But I know you guys prefer to mismatch size classes when you do your comparisons, so by all means ;)
Model 3 LR also goes further in city driving on a full charge than the 340i goes on a full tank, by the way ;) And the former starts out every day charged; the latter averages half a tank available on any given day. The 340i only beats the LR on range in combined and highway driving.
News Flash: Uncivility on Twitter! Person insults someone on twitter, target insults back! Quick, reserve the front page of the New York Times for the next week!
And for the record: Musk was asked by one of the dive co-leads to make the sub, and it was made to his specifications. This whole situation is ridiculous.
Or not..
LOL. By "whistleblower", you mean the sabateur who tried to frame his coworkers, had dozens of behavioral complaints against him, and threatened to shoot up the Gigafactory. But now he's pretending that none of that ever happened. No, no, he's Good Mr. Public Interest now! Couldn't have saboutaged anything - why, he doesn't even know how to program! Except, well, he does, and when that was pointed out to him, he tried to hide his Stack Overflow, Adafruit and Scribd accounts. On, and for bonus points, can anyone guess what the only other thing on his Scribd account apart from programming/sysadmin docs was? Why, gun documents!
His alibis on Twitter for his behavior are getting increasingly hilarious. Why, the gun documents and sysadmin files, those were just things he had lying around to trade for guitar tabs, dontchaknow!
Chevy Bolt production is at 576 per week. Model 3 production is at 5000 per week.
The #1 selling Sedan in the US in Q1 was the (far cheaper) Toyota Camry, at just over 18k vehicles sold per month. Depending on the US/Canada Mix, Model 3 could actually end up being the highest selling sedan of any powertrain and any price bracket in the US. And this ignores the huge numbers of vehicles (over 11k if I remember right) that are in transit, stockpiled in June. Even if there's some downtime (there was a small one around the independence day holiday) or a somewhat lower weekly average output, July figures should still be giving the (vastly cheaper) Camry a run for its money due to that.
Why not from glass?
1) It's been done countless times. Where's the fun in that?
2) The main advantage to the printed mirror (if it would actually work) is that - stiffened by a 3d truss rather than bulk glass - it would be dramatically lighter than a glass mirror. You're talking the ultimate in lightweighting. With basically no thermal inertia, either. Easily reproducible en masse. Receivers for mounting and collimation screws built into the design. And for a future step up, with segmented mirrors for adaptive optics designs, hinges and segment mountings built into the design as well.
Of course, the "if" is the big part. I can picture quite a few places things could go wrong. Or at least greatly complicate the process. E.g. if the stiffness is insufficient even with a truss, if thermal factors cause it to change shape unevenly, if the 3d printer isn't consistent in its grid across long distances (enough that polymer deposition can't easily overcome it), if polymer deposition on the surface doesn't work as evenly as I'd expect to smooth out the 3d printer's resolution limitations, etc, etc. It's anything but a sure thing. But it might be fun to try at some point :)