If you're talking about "so little air that the vehicle - without a compressor - only slowly drifts down in velocity", then you're talking about a hard vacuum, and incompatible with Hyperloop Alpha. If you are talking about a mild vacuum, with a compressor shunting the built-up air ahead of the vehicle into air bearings, cite an example of that from before Musk.
And FYI, Hyperloop Alpha only drifts down between accelerator segments; faster deceleration is by deceleration segments and (at lower speeds) physical / magnetic braking.
The system Musk conceived (Hyperloop Alpha) is not a vactrain, and more to the point, would not work in a vacuum. Hyperloop One is based on air bearings for suspension to avoid the need for (expensive) maglev and to avoid the need to maintain a hard vacuum (which requires significant pumping) - simultaneously overcoming two of the largest problems with vactrains. The drag problem for non-hard-vacuum tubes is overcome in Hyperloop Alpha via battery powered compressors, which boost the air bearings.
"Hyperloop" One, however, is a standard maglev vactrain, and an old concept. So are most of the student competitors on the "Hyperloop pod design contest" (otherwise known as "Cleverly disguised talent scouting for SpaceX";) )
Yes, and these things have been endlessly studied, and are not problems; EVs still beat gasoline vehicles handily in life-cycle analyses (and the difference grows every year as EV tech advances and they get lighter, more efficient, and with more streamlined production processes and recycling). Do yourself a favour, go to scholar.google.com, punch in search terms, and start reading. If anything is behind a paywall, there's always SciHub.
Towing trailers absolutely can be done (see Model X or any of the electric freight trucks available today), and just like with gasoline or diesel vehicles, trailers reduce your range. So they simply require larger batteries and/or faster charging. EVs have more than enough power to tow trailers; if there's one thing they're not short on, it's torque.
If you want to see someone tow a heavy boat up a mountain, for example, here you go:) Here's one towing a caravan. Model X is expensive, but Tesla's next vehicle after the Model 3 will be the Model Y, another crossover (it's still not clear whether the Model 3 will end up with a trailer option, but it'd be shocking if Model Y didn't).
- You're straight up wrong if you think most public garages will supply them. Comes down to cost. Very few parking garages here have plug ins, as important as it may be.
For money they absolutely will. Which has been repeatedly demonstrated in countries with high EV adoption.
- Only until it reaches a certain point will you find free charging anywhere. That will disappear very quick. How do we handle short term electric billing?
"Yes", and "The same way we handle electronic billing everywhere else" - by any of over a dozen different possible payment mechanisms. IMHO, ones built into the car are most convenient (charge connectors have data pins)
- Putting in a new charger or outlet might be reasonable for a private homeowner, but fat chance in hell apartment building owners will install that many outlets
That's like saying "fat chance in hell apartment building owners will install that many parking spaces". Literally every argument you could make applies to both equally. Ex: "People don't want to rent from me if they can't park" -> (future) "People don't want to rent from me if they can't charge"; "The city makes me install this many parking spaces" -> (future) "The city makes me install this many charging spaces." Etc.
Furthermore, home charging isn't the only way charging can be done; there's also workplace charging, and fast chargers at shopping centres / grocery stores / etc.
It doesn't unless you're stupid about it and try to charge to 100%, but okay.
To get the same capacity with electric cars, you would need 12 times more supercharchers than there are gas pumps.
1) The overwhelming majority of EV parking is done at home. Essentially all gasoline filling is done at gas stations.
2) There is no shortage of parking spaces in the world that can have chargers installed in them. Business owners generally love having chargers added (some do it at their own expense) because it means a captive audience.
You did add the highway caveat, but even there one has to add the counter-caveat that EV drivers leave home full and arrive at their destination low, while gasoline car drivers leave and arrive at arbitrary fuel levels. The longer the trip, the less this matters, but not all "trips" are drive-all-day events. I could also point out that while your 1h estimate is already overly pessimistic, it'll continue to go further and further out of the ballpark with time.
If you live in an apartment complex, you basically need a charger on every parking spot.
Which, when done at construction time, isn't very expensive at all. Which is why it's important for governments to be proactive with regulations on "X number of charging points per Y parking spaces" in new construction, adjusting the ratio over time based on future demand forecasts - because it's cheaper to do things right the first time than to go in later and retrofit. Not that there aren't some rather clever retrofit ideas out there... for example, rewiring streetlight conduit, which is already in place, to higher current / high availability and installing chargers on lamp posts; combo charger/parking meters when you need to add parking meters, since you have to pay for install either way; etc. But obviously you always want to do things right from the beginning.
As for the "lot to build", it will always be in proportion to the number of vehicles, and thus can just be thought of as an extra fee on the vehicle's price. Not a very large one if done at construction time, as mentioned.
I'm sorry, but it doesn't work like that. Saying "if it's too hard then it won't work" when you're the one making it hard is totally unfair. You're saying it doesn't work. Either prove it yourself or give us the information needed to prove or disprove your case for you.
I don't need to strategise my route, I just don't.
And you probably don't. But you refuse to give any actual details, so who the bloody hell knows?
What you're doing is like saying "My site won't load in browsers on Android. I haven't tried, or even collected any data to find out whether it would or not, but I'm just going to assert that it won't. And if you ask me for my site's URL, I'm just going to assert that the very fact that you have to ask for details proves that android is not up to the task of displaying my website."
Yes, "Canada" sure helps us narrow the trip down a lot. :
If you don't care to be specific and want us just to keep guessing at what you want a car to do, why should we bother? Why not just say "Earth" while you're at it?
a) partly because a 6 year old electric car is risky
Why? Pack failures have not been bad - even on Leafs, which don't have cooled packs (they resolved the hot-climate-degradation issues with the "Lizard Pack" and replaced any that had gone bad). Sure, leafs degrade more than other EVs, but "failures"? That has never been a significant issue with them You know what you're getting based on how many bars it has left when you buy it.
Every value buyer knows you don't want to buy 'version 1.0' of anything because it'll take a few iterations to work the early kinks out. A 2011 electric car is pretty much a version 1.0 electric car.
Not true at all. Even ignoring that EVs were really big in the early 1900s, "modern" EVs have been heavily in development since the EV-1 days. Decades.
partly because there are so few of them
That does not give you an excuse to price compare "6-year-used" with "new"
partly because they don't age particularly well.
Even Leafs have done "fine", although they do degrade. Teslas and other ones that baby their packs more have done superbly. A typical Tesla degradation curve is about 4% in the first year, then it greatly slows; total degradation by year five is only 6-7% on average. You'll lose more "range per tank" on a gasoline car than that.
. I've found numerous sources that cite their 2011 LEAF in 2017 is now good for under 50 miles (1/2 the original 100), one reported theirs was down to 28.
Then don't buy one that's "down to 28 miles" (although I really doubt that, unless the had severe hot climate degradation and they never bothered getting the replacement). As mentioned, you know what you're getting based on how many bars it has left.
Also as mentioned, the prices you saw are ridiculous. You can get one from the US that's only a couple years old for the price you were talking about.
The point is taking money from them to subsidize wealthier people to buy electrics is demented.
Yes, that's what farmers in 1900 thought about their taxes paying for road paving for those automobiles owned by wealthy city folk which did nothing but smoke up their air and spook their horses.
The tax credit effectively passes directly to the used market. Vehicle cheaper when new = vehicle cheaper when used. Beyond that, that's not the point; the point is to kickstart the industry. Credits to help vehicles get up to a few percent market penetration have a nearly meaningless effect on your total tax burden, but they have a huge impact on the rate at which EVs can take.
That price is utter nonsense. Ship one in from the states. The most expensive 2011 Nissan Leaf listed for sale on Autotrader.com in the entire US is under $9k USD. The cheapest is $5,7k - with 40k miles, BTW.
Surely there's something distorting your pricing figures...
Yep, sure could. There's plenty of waste heat involved in gasification:)
Are you picturing the ultimate tailgating truck?;)
Actually, if you ran a company focused on providing big slow roasters for festivals, that would probably be a very environmentally friendly way to travel. And not just because wood pellets are usually made out of waste. The engine will run very efficiently on wood gas (thorough combustion), and almost all energy not ending up in the gases will end up as waste heat for your grill, which you'd be using. You'd need a compressor and storage tanks, however, and it'd get more complicated because of that.
If you really wanted to "go green" (I know, we're now totally on the opposite tack vs. what the AC wanted;) ), you could only partially oxidize the wood pellets. You'd still get wood gas and waste heat, but a different gas mixture - larger hydrogen, methane and water fractions, lower CO and CO2 fractions. Most of the carbon would remain as biochar, which can be added to enrich poor soils and (probably, although it's still under study) sequester most of the carbon.
Scandinavia is more sparsely populated, but it's also Ground Zero for EV adoption. I mean, Norway has a supercharger network almost all the way up to Nordkapp - let alone slower chargers;)
Parts of Australia and Canada would work for the analogy, however. But then again, eventually you get to the point where you're specifically trying to design something to be hard for EVs;) "So, if you drove your EV out onto an oceangoing barge, and then shipped it to Point Nemo...." And the areas not covered by EVs keep shrinking. For example, with Superchargers (which generally well lag low powered chargers, because they're more expensive), Tesla is already started on the Trans-Canada electric highway and the Brisbane to Perth route is now over half done (the Outback will probably be a while, however, as will the northern Canadian territories.. you can do both, but not at Supercharger speeds - in Canada, for example, Tesla only goes up to Edmonton at present)
Trivia: the furthest north dedicated EV charging station in Canada is in Yellowknife. Doesn't compete in terms of "Northerness" with Scandinavia or even Alaskan charging stations, but certainly rather remote!:)
That's not actually how it works for the major functions. Station controls, volume, fan speed, etc are handled by steering wheel controls; control via the touchscreen for these things is intended mainly for the passenger (and there's also voice control). In the case of wipers, the vehicle has rain sensors. That said, if you want to override the sensors, you can flip the stick up for a manual wipe, and that automatically triggers the wiper settings on the touchscreen if you want to change it. The car obviously has a thermostat and uses that as the primary interface for temperature control.
Currently some features are disabled (the car is basically in beta right now, whether they want to call it that or not - not like the current owners much care;) ), such as FM (rather than streaming) radio and voice. Also, currently the right steering wheel control (both are dual axis + click) is disabled; eventually you'll be able to assign all the controls to whatever features you want.
As for the touchscreen itself, it's not your typical automotive touchscreen (and I'm not just talking about responsiveness). The two main differences (which I'm sure you've noticed standing out in pictures) is that A) it's very large, and B) it's out on a stalk. The latter places it immediately to the side of the steering wheel, putting it easily into your peripheral view and means you don't have to "reach" for anything. This, combined with A), also means that the buttons are very large - far larger than a normal car manual controls. The vent control box, for example, is about 4" / 10cm wide. Anyone who doesn't have the coordination to hit a 4" box immediately beside their steering wheel without leaning in and staring doesn't have the hand-eye coordination to be driving in the first place. It lets you control both of your vents at once (rather than one at a time), and without any leaning and searching for a little guide nub.
The screen real estate is laid out based on how close it is to your peripheral. The upper left is the prime real estate, around the same point where the right end of a wide dash display would be. This displays your speed, range, and any status indicators. The area immediately below this is the area for controls that the driver may want to push when driving - all large large buttons, and which can be triggered by driver actions (such as the example of the wipers). Since the rim itself is a physical guide, there's also "always on" buttons in fixed positions at the bottom of the screen. The rest of the display is for "lower priority" information that doesn't expect much interaction - the nav display, information about the music you're listening to, etc.
Yes, it is unconventional. But it's also not a normal car touchscreen. And the "early adopters" have all described it as very easy to get used to and interact with. This wasn't just something tacked on without having been tried it out.
Model 3s are just beginning to hit showrooms - only a few have gotten them so far (just the past couple days), but most expect them by December or January. Do give it a try if you're not sure.:)
1 Of or concerning the people as a whole. ‘public concern’ ‘public affairs’
1.1 Open to or shared by all the people of an area or country. ‘a public library’
1.2 Of or involved in the affairs of the community, especially in government or entertainment. ‘he was forced to withdraw from public life’ ‘a public figure’
2Done, perceived, or existing in open view. ‘he wanted a public apology in the Wall Street Journal’ ‘we should talk somewhere less public’
3Of or provided by the state rather than an independent, commercial company. ‘public spending’ ‘public services’
4British Of, for, or acting for a university. ‘public examination results’
Oh, and FYI: looking over the route, ironically, the locations I picked just happened to turn out to be bad for Teslas - all of the above charging was on CHAdeMOs, which are much lower power than Superchargers.
Note that this is all on currently active charging stations and not accounting for the rapid expansions underway. For example, on the second hop, a Supercharger instead of a CHAdeMO would have cut the time spent charging to a third of that. And that's today's superchargers - ignoring the higher power ones planned for the future.
Ok so my vacation home is 250 km away. When I get there I find out the pump is broken and I need parts to fix it. The nearest town to get parts is 100km away.
Again, not very specific (I don't even know your goal - was your goal to be at the "0 kilometers remaining" mark when you got there, and do you do that with gasoline cars?).
I'm going to have to fill in a bunch of random details, all pulled out of thin air, because you don't seem to feel fit to say them. So don't complain if I'm wrong.
I'm going to guess that you get a Model 3 LR. No, let's say that you're cheap and get a Model 3 SR, just to make the range lower and charging times slower just to make it more challenging - why not, right?
I'm going to guess that you live in... oh let's see, you use kilometer, so let's pick somewhere in Europe... let's say that you live in Frankfurt and your vacation home is in... let's pick a town 250km away... Horb am Neckar. None of these places were picked with looking at what charging infrastructure may be nearby. Now I have to guess, how empty do you like to arrive at a destination? I don't bloody know... I'll guess 20% remaining? So I pull up A Better Routeplanner and punch it in. It recommends the following plan involving one 15 minute charging stop break:
Destination Arrival Charge Depart Charge Charge Duration Drive Duration Distance Total Duration Frankfurt 100% 00:51 93 km
Autobahnraststätte Am Hockenheimring West 64% 81% 00:15 01:18 148 km Horb am Neckar 20% 00:15 02:10 242 km 02:25
So, you've gotten to your vacation house at your desired level which you made me pull from thin air. Oh no, the pump is broken! So, where is this town? I have to pick another random town 100 km away without looking at a charger map. Um, "100km to the nearest town" isn't working at all from here - I mean, you can get to freaking Stuttgart in 2/3rds of that - you must really be out in the middle of nowhere if the "nearest town" is 100km. But let's ignore that, drive you right past Stuttgart and bring to you... I don't know, Backnang? That's about 100km away. Let's say that you were only home and plugged in for five minutes before you discovered the pump problem and left. In that 5 minutes you got only a bit over 1% range. So you have 21% range when you set out. And let's say that because you (from the sound of your writing) appear to be in a rush that you decide to get at your destination with... I don't know, 14% remaining? Plugging that into A Better Routeplanner we get:
Horb am Neckar 21% 00:18 31 km
Autobahnraststätte Schönbuch Ost 8% 27% 00:15 00:28 34 km
EnBW Ladesäule 19% 23% 00:03 00:20 28 km Backnang 14% 00:18* 01:07* 94 km* 01:26*
Note that I picked the shortest range, slowest charging vehicle that Tesla makes for this.
Now, if you don't like the assumptions I made, how about not making me guess at what you want and actually telling me?
Actually, I'm in Iceland, but not like it matters. And no, "public" does not in any way, shape, or form mean "not a parking garage". The word "public" has a very specific meaning. Just like the word private does. They're antonyms.
You cannot equip a grass verge with an electric plug
Yesyoumostcertainlycan. It's actually easier to install charging stations in grass than concrete. You run a trenching tool down the grass, lay down conduit, fill in the trench, and install the posts. And hey, if you don't want the posts for aesthetic reasons? Noproblem.
Look, the fact that you're arguing that something "can't be done" where there are places that it already is abundantly done should clue you in to the fact that you're wrong.
There might be a vocabulary mis-match here. By "public parking" I mean purpose-designed buildings/spaces where tens/hundreds of vehicles can be parked. I don't include "parked on a residential street" as public parking.
Private = Owned by private citizens Public = Owned "the public" (city, federal government, etc)
It has nothing to do with how parking is arranged. Secondly, why would you assume that only on-street parking would get chargers but not parking garages? In Norway there are entire parking garages dedicated specifically to EVs. And this is just the start - while now 1/3rd of all new vehicle sales in Norway are EVs, due to the lag, they're still only a relatively small fraction of total vehicles on the road. The higher the penetration = the more EV parking. And they're not just slow charging garages - countries starting to move into fast charging garages as well.
Just shopping for fresh foods (meat, lettuce, etc...) so only a few minutes each time.
That didn't answer the question. 1) What is your total average time, in minutes (not just "few") between when you park, and when you get back to your car; and 2) How often do you go to the store?
(not that I actually believe that you only spend "a few minutes" on a grocery store trip and that covers all your groceries)
So if you go for 100% EV you'd have to force companies to build more parking spaces. Could be done, but it will mean more concreting over of green spaces.
It takes no more parking spaces. It takes the conversion of parking spaces. It means that parking spaces have plugs, nothing else.
At high penetrations, this change is inherently incentivized for the exact same reason that having parking at all is inherently incentivized.
I'm confused. You don't have private parking and you don't use public parking. Where do you park your car, in the air?
And I hate shops, BTW, so I spend as little time there as I can.
Unless you have your groceries shipped to you, you at least have to do that. How often do you go to the grocery store and how long do you spend there?
3) Possible. Except for all the offices and factories that are already short of parking spaces, forcing workers to park on the street of an industrial estate (this is very, very common).
Public or private? Again, if public, the city has the incentive to have charging there when penetration is high. If private, the owner has the incentive to have charging there when penetration is high. This isn't theoretical, we see it play out in the real world in places like Norway.
Leaf warranties are transferable (although they're not "nice" interiors, to be fair;) ) For a nice interior on the used market, something like the BMW i3. Eventually there will be Model 3s on the used market, but that day is not today. Also, Teslas tend to depreciate rather slowly compared to other EVs.
I'm really excited about CharIN. I just hope they don't make it some small incremental improvement and have to go back and replace it, and its successor, etc, etc five times more as charge powers keep increasing. They better design it for 1-2MW if they want to "futureproof" it (note that to hit the max rate without an unreasonable-thickness cable and unreasonable requirements for vehicle-side heat dissipation, it'll have an optional coolant supply in the cable).
I also hope that they don't make it a giant Frankenconnector out of insistence with backwards compatibility, or require a bunch of pins dedicated to specific uses rather than multiuse pins. Tesla has been a big opponent of both of these things, and kudos to them for that. Imagine what ports on computers would be like if each successive tech had to support the previous; your USB plug would be moulded together with a PS2 plug, a serial plug and parallel port plug;) Or if functionality for USB keyboards was over different pins than USB mouse functionality, which was over different pins from USB printer functionality.
What I want to see:
1) Two hefty pins for DC and single-phase charging. If coolant is supplied, max ~1000-2000A; without coolant, 300-500A. 2) A third, smaller pin for 3 phase, and another smaller pin as ground/neutral. 3-phase should support at least up to 400 VAC, with 90-180A with coolant, 30-60A without. 3) As few data/sense pins as possible (perhaps even optical) 4) Insulation rated for a max in the ballpark of 1000-2000V 5) Coolant channels (inflow and outflow) filling the space between pins, which can either lead to a heat exchanger (if the vehicle is designed to accept coolant) or just blindly be looped inflow-to-outflow at the connector if the vehicle doesn't.
If they do something like that, I'll be happy. If it's very far from that spec, I'll be expecting another port switch a decade down the line.:P
Slashdot Mirror
If you're talking about "so little air that the vehicle - without a compressor - only slowly drifts down in velocity", then you're talking about a hard vacuum, and incompatible with Hyperloop Alpha. If you are talking about a mild vacuum, with a compressor shunting the built-up air ahead of the vehicle into air bearings, cite an example of that from before Musk.
And FYI, Hyperloop Alpha only drifts down between accelerator segments; faster deceleration is by deceleration segments and (at lower speeds) physical / magnetic braking.
The system Musk conceived (Hyperloop Alpha) is not a vactrain, and more to the point, would not work in a vacuum. Hyperloop One is based on air bearings for suspension to avoid the need for (expensive) maglev and to avoid the need to maintain a hard vacuum (which requires significant pumping) - simultaneously overcoming two of the largest problems with vactrains. The drag problem for non-hard-vacuum tubes is overcome in Hyperloop Alpha via battery powered compressors, which boost the air bearings.
"Hyperloop" One, however, is a standard maglev vactrain, and an old concept. So are most of the student competitors on the "Hyperloop pod design contest" (otherwise known as "Cleverly disguised talent scouting for SpaceX" ;) )
Yes, and these things have been endlessly studied, and are not problems; EVs still beat gasoline vehicles handily in life-cycle analyses (and the difference grows every year as EV tech advances and they get lighter, more efficient, and with more streamlined production processes and recycling). Do yourself a favour, go to scholar.google.com, punch in search terms, and start reading. If anything is behind a paywall, there's always SciHub.
Towing trailers absolutely can be done (see Model X or any of the electric freight trucks available today), and just like with gasoline or diesel vehicles, trailers reduce your range. So they simply require larger batteries and/or faster charging. EVs have more than enough power to tow trailers; if there's one thing they're not short on, it's torque.
If you want to see someone tow a heavy boat up a mountain, for example, here you go :) Here's one towing a caravan. Model X is expensive, but Tesla's next vehicle after the Model 3 will be the Model Y, another crossover (it's still not clear whether the Model 3 will end up with a trailer option, but it'd be shocking if Model Y didn't).
Wow, do you also know a leprechaun?
For money they absolutely will. Which has been repeatedly demonstrated in countries with high EV adoption.
"Yes", and "The same way we handle electronic billing everywhere else" - by any of over a dozen different possible payment mechanisms. IMHO, ones built into the car are most convenient (charge connectors have data pins)
That's like saying "fat chance in hell apartment building owners will install that many parking spaces". Literally every argument you could make applies to both equally. Ex: "People don't want to rent from me if they can't park" -> (future) "People don't want to rent from me if they can't charge"; "The city makes me install this many parking spaces" -> (future) "The city makes me install this many charging spaces." Etc.
Furthermore, home charging isn't the only way charging can be done; there's also workplace charging, and fast chargers at shopping centres / grocery stores / etc.
It doesn't unless you're stupid about it and try to charge to 100%, but okay.
1) The overwhelming majority of EV parking is done at home. Essentially all gasoline filling is done at gas stations.
2) There is no shortage of parking spaces in the world that can have chargers installed in them. Business owners generally love having chargers added (some do it at their own expense) because it means a captive audience.
You did add the highway caveat, but even there one has to add the counter-caveat that EV drivers leave home full and arrive at their destination low, while gasoline car drivers leave and arrive at arbitrary fuel levels. The longer the trip, the less this matters, but not all "trips" are drive-all-day events. I could also point out that while your 1h estimate is already overly pessimistic, it'll continue to go further and further out of the ballpark with time.
Which, when done at construction time, isn't very expensive at all. Which is why it's important for governments to be proactive with regulations on "X number of charging points per Y parking spaces" in new construction, adjusting the ratio over time based on future demand forecasts - because it's cheaper to do things right the first time than to go in later and retrofit. Not that there aren't some rather clever retrofit ideas out there... for example, rewiring streetlight conduit, which is already in place, to higher current / high availability and installing chargers on lamp posts; combo charger/parking meters when you need to add parking meters, since you have to pay for install either way; etc. But obviously you always want to do things right from the beginning.
As for the "lot to build", it will always be in proportion to the number of vehicles, and thus can just be thought of as an extra fee on the vehicle's price. Not a very large one if done at construction time, as mentioned.
I'm sorry, but it doesn't work like that. Saying "if it's too hard then it won't work" when you're the one making it hard is totally unfair. You're saying it doesn't work. Either prove it yourself or give us the information needed to prove or disprove your case for you.
And you probably don't. But you refuse to give any actual details, so who the bloody hell knows?
What you're doing is like saying "My site won't load in browsers on Android. I haven't tried, or even collected any data to find out whether it would or not, but I'm just going to assert that it won't. And if you ask me for my site's URL, I'm just going to assert that the very fact that you have to ask for details proves that android is not up to the task of displaying my website."
Sorry, but this game you're playing is over.
Yes, "Canada" sure helps us narrow the trip down a lot. :
If you don't care to be specific and want us just to keep guessing at what you want a car to do, why should we bother? Why not just say "Earth" while you're at it?
Why? Pack failures have not been bad - even on Leafs, which don't have cooled packs (they resolved the hot-climate-degradation issues with the "Lizard Pack" and replaced any that had gone bad). Sure, leafs degrade more than other EVs, but "failures"? That has never been a significant issue with them You know what you're getting based on how many bars it has left when you buy it.
Not true at all. Even ignoring that EVs were really big in the early 1900s, "modern" EVs have been heavily in development since the EV-1 days. Decades.
That does not give you an excuse to price compare "6-year-used" with "new"
Even Leafs have done "fine", although they do degrade. Teslas and other ones that baby their packs more have done superbly. A typical Tesla degradation curve is about 4% in the first year, then it greatly slows; total degradation by year five is only 6-7% on average. You'll lose more "range per tank" on a gasoline car than that.
Then don't buy one that's "down to 28 miles" (although I really doubt that, unless the had severe hot climate degradation and they never bothered getting the replacement). As mentioned, you know what you're getting based on how many bars it has left.
Also as mentioned, the prices you saw are ridiculous. You can get one from the US that's only a couple years old for the price you were talking about.
Yes, that's what farmers in 1900 thought about their taxes paying for road paving for those automobiles owned by wealthy city folk which did nothing but smoke up their air and spook their horses.
The tax credit effectively passes directly to the used market. Vehicle cheaper when new = vehicle cheaper when used. Beyond that, that's not the point; the point is to kickstart the industry. Credits to help vehicles get up to a few percent market penetration have a nearly meaningless effect on your total tax burden, but they have a huge impact on the rate at which EVs can take.
That price is utter nonsense. Ship one in from the states. The most expensive 2011 Nissan Leaf listed for sale on Autotrader.com in the entire US is under $9k USD. The cheapest is $5,7k - with 40k miles, BTW.
Surely there's something distorting your pricing figures...
To elaborate... here's why using Scandinavia would not have been a good idea if trying to make an argument that EV charging can be hard to come by ;)
Yep, sure could. There's plenty of waste heat involved in gasification :)
Are you picturing the ultimate tailgating truck? ;)
Actually, if you ran a company focused on providing big slow roasters for festivals, that would probably be a very environmentally friendly way to travel. And not just because wood pellets are usually made out of waste. The engine will run very efficiently on wood gas (thorough combustion), and almost all energy not ending up in the gases will end up as waste heat for your grill, which you'd be using. You'd need a compressor and storage tanks, however, and it'd get more complicated because of that.
If you really wanted to "go green" (I know, we're now totally on the opposite tack vs. what the AC wanted ;) ), you could only partially oxidize the wood pellets. You'd still get wood gas and waste heat, but a different gas mixture - larger hydrogen, methane and water fractions, lower CO and CO2 fractions. Most of the carbon would remain as biochar, which can be added to enrich poor soils and (probably, although it's still under study) sequester most of the carbon.
Scandinavia is more sparsely populated, but it's also Ground Zero for EV adoption. I mean, Norway has a supercharger network almost all the way up to Nordkapp - let alone slower chargers ;)
Parts of Australia and Canada would work for the analogy, however. But then again, eventually you get to the point where you're specifically trying to design something to be hard for EVs ;) "So, if you drove your EV out onto an oceangoing barge, and then shipped it to Point Nemo...." And the areas not covered by EVs keep shrinking. For example, with Superchargers (which generally well lag low powered chargers, because they're more expensive), Tesla is already started on the Trans-Canada electric highway and the Brisbane to Perth route is now over half done (the Outback will probably be a while, however, as will the northern Canadian territories.. you can do both, but not at Supercharger speeds - in Canada, for example, Tesla only goes up to Edmonton at present)
Trivia: the furthest north dedicated EV charging station in Canada is in Yellowknife. Doesn't compete in terms of "Northerness" with Scandinavia or even Alaskan charging stations, but certainly rather remote! :)
That's not actually how it works for the major functions. Station controls, volume, fan speed, etc are handled by steering wheel controls; control via the touchscreen for these things is intended mainly for the passenger (and there's also voice control). In the case of wipers, the vehicle has rain sensors. That said, if you want to override the sensors, you can flip the stick up for a manual wipe, and that automatically triggers the wiper settings on the touchscreen if you want to change it. The car obviously has a thermostat and uses that as the primary interface for temperature control.
Currently some features are disabled (the car is basically in beta right now, whether they want to call it that or not - not like the current owners much care ;) ), such as FM (rather than streaming) radio and voice. Also, currently the right steering wheel control (both are dual axis + click) is disabled; eventually you'll be able to assign all the controls to whatever features you want.
As for the touchscreen itself, it's not your typical automotive touchscreen (and I'm not just talking about responsiveness). The two main differences (which I'm sure you've noticed standing out in pictures) is that A) it's very large, and B) it's out on a stalk. The latter places it immediately to the side of the steering wheel, putting it easily into your peripheral view and means you don't have to "reach" for anything. This, combined with A), also means that the buttons are very large - far larger than a normal car manual controls. The vent control box, for example, is about 4" / 10cm wide. Anyone who doesn't have the coordination to hit a 4" box immediately beside their steering wheel without leaning in and staring doesn't have the hand-eye coordination to be driving in the first place. It lets you control both of your vents at once (rather than one at a time), and without any leaning and searching for a little guide nub.
The screen real estate is laid out based on how close it is to your peripheral. The upper left is the prime real estate, around the same point where the right end of a wide dash display would be. This displays your speed, range, and any status indicators. The area immediately below this is the area for controls that the driver may want to push when driving - all large large buttons, and which can be triggered by driver actions (such as the example of the wipers). Since the rim itself is a physical guide, there's also "always on" buttons in fixed positions at the bottom of the screen. The rest of the display is for "lower priority" information that doesn't expect much interaction - the nav display, information about the music you're listening to, etc.
Yes, it is unconventional. But it's also not a normal car touchscreen. And the "early adopters" have all described it as very easy to get used to and interact with. This wasn't just something tacked on without having been tried it out.
Model 3s are just beginning to hit showrooms - only a few have gotten them so far (just the past couple days), but most expect them by December or January. Do give it a try if you're not sure. :)
Would you prefer the Oxford English Dictionary then?
public ADJECTIVE
1 Of or concerning the people as a whole.
‘public concern’
‘public affairs’
1.1 Open to or shared by all the people of an area or country.
‘a public library’
1.2 Of or involved in the affairs of the community, especially in government or entertainment.
‘he was forced to withdraw from public life’
‘a public figure’
2Done, perceived, or existing in open view.
‘he wanted a public apology in the Wall Street Journal’
‘we should talk somewhere less public’
3Of or provided by the state rather than an independent, commercial company.
‘public spending’
‘public services’
4British Of, for, or acting for a university.
‘public examination results’
Public and private are antonyms.
Or if you want specifically the term "public parking", your countrymen seem to disagree (just some quick Googling)
Maybe it's a London thing to use "public" to mean "not public"?
Oh, and FYI: looking over the route, ironically, the locations I picked just happened to turn out to be bad for Teslas - all of the above charging was on CHAdeMOs, which are much lower power than Superchargers.
Note that this is all on currently active charging stations and not accounting for the rapid expansions underway. For example, on the second hop, a Supercharger instead of a CHAdeMO would have cut the time spent charging to a third of that. And that's today's superchargers - ignoring the higher power ones planned for the future.
Again, not very specific (I don't even know your goal - was your goal to be at the "0 kilometers remaining" mark when you got there, and do you do that with gasoline cars?).
I'm going to have to fill in a bunch of random details, all pulled out of thin air, because you don't seem to feel fit to say them. So don't complain if I'm wrong.
I'm going to guess that you get a Model 3 LR. No, let's say that you're cheap and get a Model 3 SR, just to make the range lower and charging times slower just to make it more challenging - why not, right?
I'm going to guess that you live in... oh let's see, you use kilometer, so let's pick somewhere in Europe... let's say that you live in Frankfurt and your vacation home is in... let's pick a town 250km away... Horb am Neckar. None of these places were picked with looking at what charging infrastructure may be nearby. Now I have to guess, how empty do you like to arrive at a destination? I don't bloody know... I'll guess 20% remaining? So I pull up A Better Routeplanner and punch it in. It recommends the following plan involving one 15 minute charging stop break:
Destination Arrival Charge Depart Charge Charge Duration Drive Duration Distance Total
Duration
Frankfurt 100% 00:51 93 km
Autobahnraststätte Am Hockenheimring West 64% 81% 00:15 01:18 148 km
Horb am Neckar 20% 00:15 02:10 242 km 02:25
So, you've gotten to your vacation house at your desired level which you made me pull from thin air. Oh no, the pump is broken! So, where is this town? I have to pick another random town 100 km away without looking at a charger map. Um, "100km to the nearest town" isn't working at all from here - I mean, you can get to freaking Stuttgart in 2/3rds of that - you must really be out in the middle of nowhere if the "nearest town" is 100km. But let's ignore that, drive you right past Stuttgart and bring to you... I don't know, Backnang? That's about 100km away. Let's say that you were only home and plugged in for five minutes before you discovered the pump problem and left. In that 5 minutes you got only a bit over 1% range. So you have 21% range when you set out. And let's say that because you (from the sound of your writing) appear to be in a rush that you decide to get at your destination with... I don't know, 14% remaining? Plugging that into A Better Routeplanner we get:
Horb am Neckar 21% 00:18 31 km
Autobahnraststätte Schönbuch Ost 8% 27% 00:15 00:28 34 km
EnBW Ladesäule 19% 23% 00:03 00:20 28 km
Backnang 14% 00:18* 01:07* 94 km* 01:26*
Note that I picked the shortest range, slowest charging vehicle that Tesla makes for this.
Now, if you don't like the assumptions I made, how about not making me guess at what you want and actually telling me?
If you're asking us to "guess" what you want, then the guess is above: you can fill up in 3,5 to 2,6 minutes. So there you go.
Generally, though, it's stupid to engage in a conversation where you ask people to guess what you want.
If you let TEPCO and Nissan design it, it very may well ;)
Actually, I'm in Iceland, but not like it matters. And no, "public" does not in any way, shape, or form mean "not a parking garage". The word "public" has a very specific meaning. Just like the word private does. They're antonyms.
Yes you most certainly can. It's actually easier to install charging stations in grass than concrete. You run a trenching tool down the grass, lay down conduit, fill in the trench, and install the posts. And hey, if you don't want the posts for aesthetic reasons? No problem.
Look, the fact that you're arguing that something "can't be done" where there are places that it already is abundantly done should clue you in to the fact that you're wrong.
Private = Owned by private citizens
Public = Owned "the public" (city, federal government, etc)
It has nothing to do with how parking is arranged. Secondly, why would you assume that only on-street parking would get chargers but not parking garages? In Norway there are entire parking garages dedicated specifically to EVs. And this is just the start - while now 1/3rd of all new vehicle sales in Norway are EVs, due to the lag, they're still only a relatively small fraction of total vehicles on the road. The higher the penetration = the more EV parking. And they're not just slow charging garages - countries starting to move into fast charging garages as well.
That didn't answer the question. 1) What is your total average time, in minutes (not just "few") between when you park, and when you get back to your car; and 2) How often do you go to the store?
(not that I actually believe that you only spend "a few minutes" on a grocery store trip and that covers all your groceries)
It takes no more parking spaces. It takes the conversion of parking spaces. It means that parking spaces have plugs, nothing else.
At high penetrations, this change is inherently incentivized for the exact same reason that having parking at all is inherently incentivized.
I'm confused. You don't have private parking and you don't use public parking. Where do you park your car, in the air?
Unless you have your groceries shipped to you, you at least have to do that. How often do you go to the grocery store and how long do you spend there?
Public or private? Again, if public, the city has the incentive to have charging there when penetration is high. If private, the owner has the incentive to have charging there when penetration is high. This isn't theoretical, we see it play out in the real world in places like Norway.
Leaf warranties are transferable (although they're not "nice" interiors, to be fair ;) ) For a nice interior on the used market, something like the BMW i3. Eventually there will be Model 3s on the used market, but that day is not today. Also, Teslas tend to depreciate rather slowly compared to other EVs.
I'm really excited about CharIN. I just hope they don't make it some small incremental improvement and have to go back and replace it, and its successor, etc, etc five times more as charge powers keep increasing. They better design it for 1-2MW if they want to "futureproof" it (note that to hit the max rate without an unreasonable-thickness cable and unreasonable requirements for vehicle-side heat dissipation, it'll have an optional coolant supply in the cable).
I also hope that they don't make it a giant Frankenconnector out of insistence with backwards compatibility, or require a bunch of pins dedicated to specific uses rather than multiuse pins. Tesla has been a big opponent of both of these things, and kudos to them for that. Imagine what ports on computers would be like if each successive tech had to support the previous; your USB plug would be moulded together with a PS2 plug, a serial plug and parallel port plug ;) Or if functionality for USB keyboards was over different pins than USB mouse functionality, which was over different pins from USB printer functionality.
What I want to see:
1) Two hefty pins for DC and single-phase charging. If coolant is supplied, max ~1000-2000A; without coolant, 300-500A.
2) A third, smaller pin for 3 phase, and another smaller pin as ground/neutral. 3-phase should support at least up to 400 VAC, with 90-180A with coolant, 30-60A without.
3) As few data/sense pins as possible (perhaps even optical)
4) Insulation rated for a max in the ballpark of 1000-2000V
5) Coolant channels (inflow and outflow) filling the space between pins, which can either lead to a heat exchanger (if the vehicle is designed to accept coolant) or just blindly be looped inflow-to-outflow at the connector if the vehicle doesn't.
If they do something like that, I'll be happy. If it's very far from that spec, I'll be expecting another port switch a decade down the line. :P