You could always write them a letter - if you took the necessary precautions you could still remain an AC.
So, while the USPS takes 2-4 days to deliver my mail, the suspect is out crafting an alibi or leaving the state/country.
To be honest, unless I know the victim or dislike the perpetrator the pay phone is the only medium that is convienent enough and anonymous enough to make it worth my while to report what I saw.
If I had knowledge of the details of a crime, I would only call the police from a pay phone to give them a tip. My cooperation would be predicated upon my anonymity. If they know who I am, they can question me as to how I know these details. Maybe I witnessed this crime while I was getting a hummer from the Chief's 19 year old daughter in my truck.
If I couldn't be anonymous, I'd keep my mouth shut.
If payphones are eliminated, you'll see tips to law enforcement take a steep dive.
Maybe that should be "every politically active red blooded canadian geek"
If he's doing this to make a political statement, then it is not immature. If he's doing it for no other reason than to be a thorn in Walmart's side, then he is.
If you want to say that soviet governments occasionally (or frequently) rounded up agitators and subersives, or that it might have happened during the 1950s for a short period in this country, fine. But dont call it a habit.
During the 1960's and 1970's it was groups like the Black Panthers who got that type of treatment.
During the 1980's, this type of behavior waned for a while. However it returned with a vengance in the 1990's with the persecution of extremely right wing people.
In one generation we went from leftists who were persecuted to right wingers. If it can happen at both ends of the spectrum, it can happen to those of us in the middle.
You may choose not to call it a habit, but it is nonetheless.
Because of the type of work that I do, I am occasionally asked by my clients "Are you a hacker?"
I always have to respond "Yes, but not necessarily in the way that you think." I then have to explain in as few words as possible the difference between hacking and cracking, black hat/white hat et all. And I have to do this before their eyes glaze over.
>>You cannot claim a moral high ground if you're using the same tactics as your opposition. You must be above them in *all* respects.
Not true, I'm going to take a little shortcut here. The US was able to take the moral high ground over Nazi Germany in WW2. The US was still waist deep in racism, sexism, and religious bigotry, but we weren't hearding people into gas chambers.
>>Looking at abortion doctors accused of murder, and activists accused of murdering the doctors, I can't tell the difference.
Let me help you. The doctors are the ones who kill children.
I don't have to prove it. It is a true statement, Roe V. Wade was decided because of the votes of 9 justices, they did not consider the feelings on the majority of Americans.
>>Besides, if any elected official even tries to restrict abortion in this country, he/she will seriously jeopardize their chances at re-election due to the fact that women are the majority when it comes to voting.
A majority of women in this country are pro life. Since they carry the babies, they know better wen we do that they are alive.
Whether or not a politician risks his job depends on where s/he's from. Someone from pennsylvania who does, isn't in too much trouble. Someone from California who tries will get lynched. All depends on the politics of your state.
>>Personally, I think abortion is a private issue and should be left up to the couples, not the politicians.
I respect your right to hold any opinion, even if it is a stupid one. Do you also think that euthanizing old people who are no longer useful is a private issue that should be left up to families and not politicians?
We like abortion because we are a democratic nation where the majority rules.
Roe V. Wade did not become case law because of a majority of the population supporting it, it because case law because a majority of 9 judges supported it.
Where is your proof that most of the members of our society are in favor of abortion on demand?
Lastly, the constitution is designed to protect the minority from the tyranny of the majority.
You don't need freedom of religion, if you're a WASP. You don't need freedom of speech if you only talk about how great the current administration is. You don't need to keep and bear arms if you live in a GREAT neighborhood where police response time is under 3 minutes.
If you're trying to equate a woman's body with what was essentially considered a matter of property laws, then prostitution should be legal.
Yes. Why should it be illegal to sell something that it's perfectly fine to give away?
IIRC, it wasn't that the list listed all these people, but that the names of the murdered doctors and patients were crossed off the list (as opposed to being deleted). It took on the air of a checklist.
As well as patients who died from complications from botched abortions. Are you going to say that they incide abortion providers to commit malpractice?
Pro-choicers do want birth control, and tend to consider abortion as a worst-case scenario.
Why is it a worst case scenario? Maybe because even they too know that it's wrong?
The pro-lifers tend to be religiously driven, and are hence the ones anti-contraceptive.
I'm a neo pagan, there are many people who draw their opposition to abortion from sources other than religion. I keep a bix box of condoms next to my bed. Granted, I may not get to use them as often as I'd like, 2-3 per week is enough for now. Pro contraception, pro innocent life.
Besides, laws don't work that way. If something becomes illegal, it's only illegal after the point it was passed. If it didn't work that way, can you imagine how may people would be in jail after they raised the minimum drinking age to 21?
Ex post facto only applies to the laws of the US. As I said before elsewhere in this thread, it was perfectly legal for the Nazis to murder 12-13 million people in Nazi occupied europe. That didn't stop them from being tried for crimes against humanity by an international tribunal. HELLO! Nuremberg Files-Nuremberg Trials, that is the Creator's Rights party's goal. To eventually have abortion doctors tried for crimes against humanity by internation tribunal.
30 million dead babies would seem to justify that.
On the other hand, animal rights people tend not to build pipe bombs. And, again, the issue wasn't the list itself, but how the murder victims were "check off."
So anti-hunters have never done anything violent? The greenies have never spiked trees to stop logging?
In general, looking at your utter confusion, I hope you're in the half of US citizens that don't vote...
I voted for Bush, and unless by some miracle Buchanan or Keyes gets the republican nomination in 2004, I'm voting for Bush again.
International law only operates within the bounds of national law, not the other way around.
Only when there is a contradiction between the two. If some international treaty were to make it illegal to wear red shoes on Mondays(or the equivalent day in the language of your choice), idiotic as it may be, unless you're in a country that specifically protects the action of wearing red shoes on that day, the international agreement makes those red Nikes of your verboten on mondays.
You go tell what you said right there to my friend who was raped when she was 15 and put the child up for adoption.
Even those of us who are opposed to abortion have little problem in the case of rape or incest. However those only acount for 4-6% of all abortions in the US annually. It's a red herring that the pro abortion people use to try to muddy the water.
And how her boyfriend dumped her 3 weeks after the condom broke and she got pregnant.
And her baby should be punished for this because?
I'm off to start a website advocating the murder of anyone who is stupid enough to believe in "god".
Where on the Nuremberg Files web site did they advocate doing harm to anyone? Have you ver even seen the site?
Do you have to get stuck in the situation of having to drop out of school because you ahve to care for a child? Perhaps permanently sitting you on the welfare role?
Have you ever heard of adoption?
DO YOU OR DO YOU NOT THINK THAT KILLING ABORTION DOCTORS IS AN ACCEPTABLE THING?
Though I would never do it myself because I believe it to be murder, I can't tell other people whether or not they should do it. How can I impose my morals and judgements on other people?
hell, you probably already did with our braindead president.
You mean the president who has appointed the most diverse cabinet in american history?
somehow I think that you probably do think that it is justified to kill doctors who do things you don't like, but you won't embarass yourself by stating that here.
Unlike most of you pro aborts, I'm very careful about who I have sex with. Being the only chick at the bar who said yes isn't good enough for me.
I wouldn't be with a woman who would murder my child. Even if if you would.
Since you bring it up, I DO think it's appropriate to shame and embarass abortion providers to attempt to sway them away from the practice.
EVERYONE knows the real reason this site exists, and it is NOT business relations.
Just because you feel threatened doesn't mean that you are threatened.
Umm - excuse me, but last I looked, the court system was a part of our government. What using the courts to give us our rights back is worse then using harassment and murder to take them away again?
What was that you said about convincing over 50% of the population that I am right? That's not how Roe V. Wade became case law.
You so called "pro-choice" people who are opposed to free speech are an enigma to me.
You are in favor of people doing something that definately causes the death of a human, but are opposed to people doing something that maybe, might have, could have, encourged someone else to cause the death of a human.
If this were 150 years ago and a slave had risen up and killed his master, you assholes would be saying "But slavery is legal! That nigger should have taken the whipping like he was supposed to!"
And we, the abolitionists, would have said "But Mandingo is a human being who was defending himself."
You would have responded "You republican kooks just don't get it, keep your laws off of our slaves!"
Give me a fucking break! The Nuremberg Files web page had the stated goal of compiling information about abortion providers so that in the future if and when abortion becomes illegal they can be prosecuted for crimes against humanity. Do you know what the Nuremberg Trials were? In Nazi occupied europe it was legal to murder millions of jews, gypsies, homosexuals, and political opponents of the Nazis, but they committed crimes against humanity.
You're not "pro-choice" you're "pro-abortion", if you were truly "pro-choice" you'd be fighing for free universal birth control. You only desire to have an out for your own irresponsibility. You want to be able to punish children for your mistakes.
This is an issue of the politically correct thought police wanting to silence people who disagree with them.
If PETA had a web page that listed beef distributors and their personal information, there would be no outrage. You wouldn't see all of these liberals screaming that they're inciting violence.
I consider phone calls every night at three in the morning for an hour harassment.
I consider people threatening to sue me for speaking freely to be harassment.
the fact is, this is not about you and your church not doing business with this person, because clearly you won't.
Our society has a right to know who they are, so that we can make a decision whether or not to do business or associate with them.
If you want abortion to be illegal, join our system, and convince more then 50% that it is wrong. Don't do it by killing people, harassing them, and going outside the law.
In order to legalize abortion, the left didn't do this. They got an activist court to legislate from the bench. How can you demand that we go about doing this in this way, when you side didn't?
What about the right to privacy of the people who were killed?
Too bad they advertise their services in telephone directories huh? How can you advertise your services in one place, but demand to not be listed in another? These people are roaches in the kithcen who do not want the lights turned on.
What concerns me here about this website is not that they were happy when ppl were killed, but that they must have followed people around and stalked them to procure such information, thus violating their right to privacy.
You have a right to privacy, not a right to anonymity. Horsley would have been wrong if he planted hidden cameras in their homes, or bugged their cars or offices, but as I said, you have no right to anonymity.
Sadly the bulk of people who call themselves pro-life are shown by their actions to really be anti-choice.
If you want to stretch the logic that far, we can call you anti-choice as well. You're opposed to allowing people the choice of what to put on their web pages.
You are anti-choice. I am pro-choice because I think that Neal Horsley should be allowed to choose what he puts on his web page.
Slashdot Mirror
Anti globalization is one of the FEW things that people on both the far left and far right agree on.
When Pat Buchanan and Ralph Nader agree on the same issue, maybe we should take a second look to see if just maybe they're right.
LK
You could always write them a letter - if you took the necessary precautions you could still remain an AC.
So, while the USPS takes 2-4 days to deliver my mail, the suspect is out crafting an alibi or leaving the state/country.
To be honest, unless I know the victim or dislike the perpetrator the pay phone is the only medium that is convienent enough and anonymous enough to make it worth my while to report what I saw.
LK
If I had knowledge of the details of a crime, I would only call the police from a pay phone to give them a tip. My cooperation would be predicated upon my anonymity. If they know who I am, they can question me as to how I know these details. Maybe I witnessed this crime while I was getting a hummer from the Chief's 19 year old daughter in my truck.
If I couldn't be anonymous, I'd keep my mouth shut.
If payphones are eliminated, you'll see tips to law enforcement take a steep dive.
LK
Maybe that should be "every politically active red blooded canadian geek"
If he's doing this to make a political statement, then it is not immature. If he's doing it for no other reason than to be a thorn in Walmart's side, then he is.
LK
If you want to say that soviet governments occasionally (or frequently) rounded up agitators and subersives, or that it might have happened during the 1950s for a short period in this country, fine. But dont call it a habit.
During the 1960's and 1970's it was groups like the Black Panthers who got that type of treatment.
During the 1980's, this type of behavior waned for a while. However it returned with a vengance in the 1990's with the persecution of extremely right wing people.
In one generation we went from leftists who were persecuted to right wingers. If it can happen at both ends of the spectrum, it can happen to those of us in the middle.
You may choose not to call it a habit, but it is nonetheless.
LK
Because of the type of work that I do, I am occasionally asked by my clients "Are you a hacker?"
I always have to respond "Yes, but not necessarily in the way that you think." I then have to explain in as few words as possible the difference between hacking and cracking, black hat/white hat et all. And I have to do this before their eyes glaze over.
LK
Its gravity comes from it's mass.
Expend it's energy? Gravity does NOT get expended. The moon's gravity causes the tides, not its inertia.
Thank God April 1st is almost over this is getting pretty fucking annoying.
LK
I'm a geek who is 6'1" and 200 pounds. (down from 225)
I'm not athletic, but in better shape than the average guy my age.
LK
>>You cannot claim a moral high ground if you're using the same tactics as your opposition. You must be above them in *all* respects.
Not true, I'm going to take a little shortcut here. The US was able to take the moral high ground over Nazi Germany in WW2. The US was still waist deep in racism, sexism, and religious bigotry, but we weren't hearding people into gas chambers.
>>Looking at abortion doctors accused of murder, and activists accused of murdering the doctors, I can't tell the difference.
Let me help you. The doctors are the ones who kill children.
LK
>>Abortion is legal, murder is not.
Slavery WAS legal. Wifebeating WAS legal. Raping your wife if she didn't consent WAS legal. Since when does legaliy have anything to do with morality?
>>I can't believe this is *still* an issue in the US,
Slavery was an issue in the USA for nearly 100 years. ( and a couple hundred before the country existed on this continent)
>>the Christian Right is alive and well and trying to push their agenda on to everyone.
That is a lie. I am a neo-pagan, there are athiests and agnostics that are just as pro life as any christian, how to you explain them?
>>Ummm....prove that.
I don't have to prove it. It is a true statement, Roe V. Wade was decided because of the votes of 9 justices, they did not consider the feelings on the majority of Americans.
>>Besides, if any elected official even tries to restrict abortion in this country, he/she will seriously jeopardize their chances at re-election due to the fact that women are the majority when it comes to voting.
A majority of women in this country are pro life. Since they carry the babies, they know better wen we do that they are alive.
Whether or not a politician risks his job depends on where s/he's from. Someone from pennsylvania who does, isn't in too much trouble. Someone from California who tries will get lynched. All depends on the politics of your state.
>>Personally, I think abortion is a private issue and should be left up to the couples, not the politicians.
I respect your right to hold any opinion, even if it is a stupid one. Do you also think that euthanizing old people who are no longer useful is a private issue that should be left up to families and not politicians?
If not, why not?
LK
We like abortion because we are a democratic nation where the majority rules.
Roe V. Wade did not become case law because of a majority of the population supporting it, it because case law because a majority of 9 judges supported it.
Where is your proof that most of the members of our society are in favor of abortion on demand?
Lastly, the constitution is designed to protect the minority from the tyranny of the majority.
You don't need freedom of religion, if you're a WASP. You don't need freedom of speech if you only talk about how great the current administration is. You don't need to keep and bear arms if you live in a GREAT neighborhood where police response time is under 3 minutes.
LK
If you're trying to equate a woman's body with what was essentially considered a matter of property laws, then prostitution should be legal.
Yes. Why should it be illegal to sell something that it's perfectly fine to give away?
IIRC, it wasn't that the list listed all these people, but that the names of the murdered doctors and patients were crossed off the list (as opposed to being deleted). It took on the air of a checklist.
As well as patients who died from complications from botched abortions. Are you going to say that they incide abortion providers to commit malpractice?
Pro-choicers do want birth control, and tend to consider abortion as a worst-case scenario.
Why is it a worst case scenario? Maybe because even they too know that it's wrong?
The pro-lifers tend to be religiously driven, and are hence the ones anti-contraceptive.
I'm a neo pagan, there are many people who draw their opposition to abortion from sources other than religion. I keep a bix box of condoms next to my bed. Granted, I may not get to use them as often as I'd like, 2-3 per week is enough for now. Pro contraception, pro innocent life.
Besides, laws don't work that way. If something becomes illegal, it's only illegal after the point it was passed. If it didn't work that way, can you imagine how may people would be in jail after they raised the minimum drinking age to 21?
Ex post facto only applies to the laws of the US. As I said before elsewhere in this thread, it was perfectly legal for the Nazis to murder 12-13 million people in Nazi occupied europe. That didn't stop them from being tried for crimes against humanity by an international tribunal. HELLO! Nuremberg Files-Nuremberg Trials, that is the Creator's Rights party's goal. To eventually have abortion doctors tried for crimes against humanity by internation tribunal.
30 million dead babies would seem to justify that.
On the other hand, animal rights people tend not to build pipe bombs. And, again, the issue wasn't the list itself, but how the murder victims were "check off."
So anti-hunters have never done anything violent? The greenies have never spiked trees to stop logging?
In general, looking at your utter confusion, I hope you're in the half of US citizens that don't vote...
I voted for Bush, and unless by some miracle Buchanan or Keyes gets the republican nomination in 2004, I'm voting for Bush again.
LK
International law only operates within the bounds of national law, not the other way around.
Only when there is a contradiction between the two. If some international treaty were to make it illegal to wear red shoes on Mondays(or the equivalent day in the language of your choice), idiotic as it may be, unless you're in a country that specifically protects the action of wearing red shoes on that day, the international agreement makes those red Nikes of your verboten on mondays.
LK
This is the original Nuremberg Files list of abortion doctors.
. ht ml
http://www.christiangallery.com/atrocity/aborts
Have a look for yourself.
You go tell what you said right there to my friend who was raped when she was 15 and put the child up for adoption.
Even those of us who are opposed to abortion have little problem in the case of rape or incest. However those only acount for 4-6% of all abortions in the US annually. It's a red herring that the pro abortion people use to try to muddy the water.
And how her boyfriend dumped her 3 weeks after the condom broke and she got pregnant.
And her baby should be punished for this because?
I'm off to start a website advocating the murder of anyone who is stupid enough to believe in "god".
Where on the Nuremberg Files web site did they advocate doing harm to anyone? Have you ver even seen the site?
LK
I can assure you that no twist of reality will result in doctors being charged with crimes for actions they took before a particular law was passed.
In the US, you are correct. Ex post facto would protect them from prosecution, however international courts have no such prohibitions.
LK
It's not about ME or YOU, it's about the woman
It's about the baby.
Do you have to carry the baby?
So then you concede that it is a baby.
Do you have to get stuck in the situation of having to drop out of school because you ahve to care for a child? Perhaps permanently sitting you on the welfare role?
Have you ever heard of adoption?
DO YOU OR DO YOU NOT THINK THAT KILLING ABORTION DOCTORS IS AN ACCEPTABLE THING?
Though I would never do it myself because I believe it to be murder, I can't tell other people whether or not they should do it. How can I impose my morals and judgements on other people?
Sound familiar?
LK
hell, you probably already did with our braindead president.
You mean the president who has appointed the most diverse cabinet in american history?
somehow I think that you probably do think that it is justified to kill doctors who do things you don't like, but you won't embarass yourself by stating that here.
Unlike most of you pro aborts, I'm very careful about who I have sex with. Being the only chick at the bar who said yes isn't good enough for me.
I wouldn't be with a woman who would murder my child. Even if if you would.
Since you bring it up, I DO think it's appropriate to shame and embarass abortion providers to attempt to sway them away from the practice.
LK
EVERYONE knows the real reason this site exists, and it is NOT business relations.
Just because you feel threatened doesn't mean that you are threatened.
Umm - excuse me, but last I looked, the court system was a part of our government. What using the courts to give us our rights back is worse then using harassment and murder to take them away again?
What was that you said about convincing over 50% of the population that I am right? That's not how Roe V. Wade became case law.
LK
You so called "pro-choice" people who are opposed to free speech are an enigma to me.
You are in favor of people doing something that definately causes the death of a human, but are opposed to people doing something that maybe, might have, could have, encourged someone else to cause the death of a human.
If this were 150 years ago and a slave had risen up and killed his master, you assholes would be saying "But slavery is legal! That nigger should have taken the whipping like he was supposed to!"
And we, the abolitionists, would have said "But Mandingo is a human being who was defending himself."
You would have responded "You republican kooks just don't get it, keep your laws off of our slaves!"
Give me a fucking break! The Nuremberg Files web page had the stated goal of compiling information about abortion providers so that in the future if and when abortion becomes illegal they can be prosecuted for crimes against humanity. Do you know what the Nuremberg Trials were? In Nazi occupied europe it was legal to murder millions of jews, gypsies, homosexuals, and political opponents of the Nazis, but they committed crimes against humanity.
You're not "pro-choice" you're "pro-abortion", if you were truly "pro-choice" you'd be fighing for free universal birth control. You only desire to have an out for your own irresponsibility. You want to be able to punish children for your mistakes.
This is an issue of the politically correct thought police wanting to silence people who disagree with them.
If PETA had a web page that listed beef distributors and their personal information, there would be no outrage. You wouldn't see all of these liberals screaming that they're inciting violence.
LK
I consider phone calls every night at three in the morning for an hour harassment.
I consider people threatening to sue me for speaking freely to be harassment.
the fact is, this is not about you and your church not doing business with this person, because clearly you won't.
Our society has a right to know who they are, so that we can make a decision whether or not to do business or associate with them.
If you want abortion to be illegal, join our system, and convince more then 50% that it is wrong. Don't do it by killing people, harassing them, and going outside the law.
In order to legalize abortion, the left didn't do this. They got an activist court to legislate from the bench. How can you demand that we go about doing this in this way, when you side didn't?
LK
What about the right to privacy of the people who were killed?
Too bad they advertise their services in telephone directories huh? How can you advertise your services in one place, but demand to not be listed in another? These people are roaches in the kithcen who do not want the lights turned on.
What concerns me here about this website is not that they were happy when ppl were killed, but that they must have followed people around and stalked them to procure such information, thus violating their right to privacy.
You have a right to privacy, not a right to anonymity. Horsley would have been wrong if he planted hidden cameras in their homes, or bugged their cars or offices, but as I said, you have no right to anonymity.
LK
Sadly the bulk of people who call themselves pro-life are shown by their actions to really be anti-choice.
If you want to stretch the logic that far, we can call you anti-choice as well. You're opposed to allowing people the choice of what to put on their web pages.
You are anti-choice. I am pro-choice because I think that Neal Horsley should be allowed to choose what he puts on his web page.
LK