That's what I took "Added to which, it is unlikely that adding more developers in general to Debian will make it more succesful over the long run..." to mean.
Generally there are only one or two people in charge of each package and I don't know of any proposal to change that, so I assumed you meant what I said.
It's not clear what is being asked for anyway - testers (which doesn't slow anyone down), bug fixers (which would only slow people down if they have to ask too many questions) or developers (who have coordination issues). I suspect it could be the second, in which case it would probably help. This thread seems to assume the third.
Adding more developers to the _same_ code will cause problems. Adding more developers with more code (ie more programs in the distro) is another matter.
I live in Australia, we have compulsory voting, and believe me, this isn't true. Idiots constantly get elected.
And even though we have a preferential voting system, which should help prevent idiots getting in, people still think a vote for a non-major party is wasted, so nothing changes.
Hopefully the real effect of the internet will be to make it easier for people to become educated about issues.
It's hard to say for sure, but two things have led to the point we're at today in terms of media awareness:
1. The maturing of Linux. 2. The freeing of Mozilla.
It's unlikely that 2 would have happened without 1, but it could have happened due to another OS or product that would have occurred without Linux.
But surely if Linux did not exist, we would be on an entirely different path to free software than we are today.
No-one knows what could have happened. We could have had HURD, a windows clone, or something entirely better than anything else we have today.
It's quite possible that the existence of Linux, is inhibiting the development of a superior free operating system that takes the best traits of all OSes and improves on them.
Bad events can have good consequences (such as the nuking of Japan leading to a relatively stable last 50 years), and good events can have bad consequences (maybe we would have been better off without Linux). We'll never know.
I thought that the question of Pluto as a planet was really more of the question of its origins and its composition than its mass.
Off memory I think one theory is it came from a big asteroid belt orbiting our solar system a lot further out, but don't quote me on that.
There's really no definition of a planet to my knowledge, it's more of a touchy feely thing, and that's the reason you get holy ways among astronomers about Pluto. =)
The Moon and Earth are a binary planetary system too, it's only there's a greater mass difference and, well, a slight difference in materials and hence living conditions.
Well, it's already happening isn't it? There are less and less manual labour jobs, but they are being replaced by other jobs. Luckily, it's a gradual thing that's not happening overnight.
You've totally missed the point of what I was saying. I didn't ask what you thought was essential usability, I asked what you thought was bloat.
Mozilla is an internet suite. If you have no need for mail, news or web page editing, then you don't need to use that app, but others might.
"Essential usability" means making what is there work, including the mail and news parts. A lot of people will use the Mozilla mailnews client, and would not use Mozilla if it didn't retain the NN4 integration.
The themeable widgets are there for use IN FORMS IN WEB PAGES, because widgets should be able to be styled by CSS the same as text. The fact that they can be used in UI skins is great and a bonus.
A lot of people would consider a JVM important and I've seen them asking why one isn't distributed with Mozilla.
What you say about an earlier release may have been true about getting more developers, but Netscape has requirements for NN5, and therefore their engineers worked on that, which was their choice. People skilled in mailnews would not easily travel over to the browser, and the Mozilla framework design had multiple clients to consider, contributing to a better initial design. I fully expect that once we reach a stable release, it will stay stable.
Bear in mind, that due to the large number of Mozilla developers, bug reports do tend to get fixed in time. Here's the URL of my watch list, about half have been fixed:
Well just what do you consider to be feature bloat? The developers are currently concentrating on "essential usability" features for beta, and pretty much everything else is delayed.
Mozilla is alpha. It crashes a lot. It will improve. Independent people will find crashes when they get annoyed by them, because this is free software!
Layers are non-standard and the decision was made to not support layers through Javascript. Mozilla will not support it. Instead, CSS should be used from now on.
I know it's hard for you to believe, but it is possible for someone to believe in Mozilla and be in no way affiliated to AOL, like me. I've seen the project work, and it is a great project. It is rapidly developing a next generation web browser.
I am producing the truth not "party drivel". You are obviously not involved with Mozilla, so what would you know? Mozilla's success has no benefit for me other than getting a good browser.
OK, so you're just trying to troll me. Anyone who's truly interested can hang around and see for themselves. Everyone complaining will have to shut up shortly.
It is disappointing because it's alpha still. Compared to what it was when it started, it is great now. Very soon it will be a full browser. M13 should be the Mozilla beta, and it will be out in a couple of months.
Question for you. How much alpha software have you used where it was basically a total rewrite of a large application? I'd say very likely none.
Speaking as someone who's been following Mozilla development since about a year ago, Mozilla is being developed very quickly and will be ready for beta very shortly. GNU HURD does not have hundreds of developers.
1. Mozilla is much further ahead in standards support than IE. 2. Mozilla is free software, and hence will evolve more rapidly than IE can. 3. Most people consider lack of ActiveX support a feature. 4. Mozilla will be widely used on non-MS operating systems. If Linux becomes as big as I expect it to, Mozilla will have a big head start.
There have been FreeBSD problems. Some have been attributed to FreeBSD, some to Mozilla. They get resolved. FreeBSD is not a primary platform, so they don't get resolved as quickly.
Slashdot Mirror
That's what I took "Added to which, it is unlikely that adding more developers in general to Debian will make it more succesful over the long run ..." to mean.
Generally there are only one or two people in charge of each package and I don't know of any proposal to change that, so I assumed you meant what I said.
It's not clear what is being asked for anyway - testers (which doesn't slow anyone down), bug fixers (which would only slow people down if they have to ask too many questions) or developers (who have coordination issues). I suspect it could be the second, in which case it would probably help. This thread seems to assume the third.
> saying that Domino Server Release 5 will be
> out for Linux within 30 days.
Which, given Lotus's record of releases of Notes and Domino R5 for other platforms, means in three months.
This is not a troll, I'm serious.
Adding more developers to the _same_ code will cause problems. Adding more developers with more code (ie more programs in the distro) is another matter.
You can never have enough testers.
I live in Australia, we have compulsory voting, and believe me, this isn't true. Idiots constantly get elected.
And even though we have a preferential voting system, which should help prevent idiots getting in, people still think a vote for a non-major party is wasted, so nothing changes.
Hopefully the real effect of the internet will be to make it easier for people to become educated about issues.
It's hard to say for sure, but two things have led to the point we're at today in terms of media awareness:
1. The maturing of Linux.
2. The freeing of Mozilla.
It's unlikely that 2 would have happened without 1, but it could have happened due to another OS or product that would have occurred without Linux.
But surely if Linux did not exist, we would be on an entirely different path to free software than we are today.
No-one knows what could have happened. We could have had HURD, a windows clone, or something entirely better than anything else we have today.
It's quite possible that the existence of Linux, is inhibiting the development of a superior free operating system that takes the best traits of all OSes and improves on them.
Bad events can have good consequences (such as the nuking of Japan leading to a relatively stable last 50 years), and good events can have bad consequences (maybe we would have been better off without Linux). We'll never know.
Yeah, the Oort cloud, that's the asteroid belt, that's it, maybe I should read the article first. =)
I thought that the question of Pluto as a planet was really more of the question of its origins and its composition than its mass.
Off memory I think one theory is it came from a big asteroid belt orbiting our solar system a lot further out, but don't quote me on that.
There's really no definition of a planet to my knowledge, it's more of a touchy feely thing, and that's the reason you get holy ways among astronomers about Pluto. =)
Charon I think it is.
The Moon and Earth are a binary planetary system too, it's only there's a greater mass difference and, well, a slight difference in materials and hence living conditions.
Well, it's already happening isn't it? There are less and less manual labour jobs, but they are being replaced by other jobs. Luckily, it's a gradual thing that's not happening overnight.
I think they're heading in that direction now, at least.
> Wonder how much these things cost and if we
> can talk Andover into buying us one.
What, you mean there's not already a category in Slashdot's budget for inflatable plastic devices?
You've totally missed the point of what I was saying. I didn't ask what you thought was essential usability, I asked what you thought was bloat.
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Mozilla is an internet suite. If you have no need for mail, news or web page editing, then you don't need to use that app, but others might.
"Essential usability" means making what is there work, including the mail and news parts. A lot of people will use the Mozilla mailnews client, and would not use Mozilla if it didn't retain the NN4 integration.
The themeable widgets are there for use IN FORMS IN WEB PAGES, because widgets should be able to be styled by CSS the same as text. The fact that they can be used in UI skins is great and a bonus.
A lot of people would consider a JVM important and I've seen them asking why one isn't distributed with Mozilla.
What you say about an earlier release may have been true about getting more developers, but Netscape has requirements for NN5, and therefore their engineers worked on that, which was their choice. People skilled in mailnews would not easily travel over to the browser, and the Mozilla framework design had multiple clients to consider, contributing to a better initial design. I fully expect that once we reach a stable release, it will stay stable.
Bear in mind, that due to the large number of Mozilla developers, bug reports do tend to get fixed in time. Here's the URL of my watch list, about half have been fixed:
http://bugzilla.mozilla.org/buglist.cgi?bug_sev
Well just what do you consider to be feature bloat? The developers are currently concentrating on "essential usability" features for beta, and pretty much everything else is delayed.
I believe it does, but the UI is not there for it yet.
Mozilla is alpha. It crashes a lot. It will improve. Independent people will find crashes when they get annoyed by them, because this is free software!
Layers are non-standard and the decision was made to not support layers through Javascript. Mozilla will not support it. Instead, CSS should be used from now on.
I know it's hard for you to believe, but it is possible for someone to believe in Mozilla and be in no way affiliated to AOL, like me. I've seen the project work, and it is a great project. It is rapidly developing a next generation web browser.
I am producing the truth not "party drivel". You are obviously not involved with Mozilla, so what would you know? Mozilla's success has no benefit for me other than getting a good browser.
Apparently site-by-site cookie setting code already exists on the back-end of Mozilla, I don't know think it's in the UI yet though.
OK, so you're just trying to troll me. Anyone who's truly interested can hang around and see for themselves. Everyone complaining will have to shut up shortly.
It is evolving faster than IE.
It is disappointing because it's alpha still. Compared to what it was when it started, it is great now. Very soon it will be a full browser. M13 should be the Mozilla beta, and it will be out in a couple of months.
Question for you. How much alpha software have you used where it was basically a total rewrite of a large application? I'd say very likely none.
Speaking as someone who's been following Mozilla development since about a year ago, Mozilla is being developed very quickly and will be ready for beta very shortly. GNU HURD does not have hundreds of developers.
Netscape is not dead ...
1. Mozilla is much further ahead in standards support than IE.
2. Mozilla is free software, and hence will evolve more rapidly than IE can.
3. Most people consider lack of ActiveX support a feature.
4. Mozilla will be widely used on non-MS operating systems. If Linux becomes as big as I expect it to, Mozilla will have a big head start.
OK, for more information, see bugs #15148, 15145, 9307, 11875 and 7380 at "http://bugzilla.mozilla.org".
It's called alpha software. It has bugs.
There have been FreeBSD problems. Some have been attributed to FreeBSD, some to Mozilla. They get resolved. FreeBSD is not a primary platform, so they don't get resolved as quickly.