"In fact, everyone trained in securing information for the U. S. Government is taught not to do that, and to report it if it's happening. Nobody at any level is authorized to do it. Not even the President. So reporting that someone has done it, and bringing an investigation that has the authority to examine the data while it's still classified, is the right thing to do. If the information was illegally classified, the person who did that will be removed from authority to classify it, and the information will be declassified. If the information was hiding a crime, that will be dealt with as well."... in theory. If only it really worked.
This one's sat at the back of my mind ever since I read Feynmans account of reviewing math books.
I mean for some things like history every country/area would want significantly different books to focus on local history etc but how is it that basic math books haven't been supplanted by a handful of public domain high quality books? of course I know the answer is that companies making thin margins printing public domain books don't have so much money to spend on guys in suits to go around and convince the people in charge to use their textbooks.
I know how terrible some of the schoolbooks are yet they get chosen by schools year after year.
If the US army cared about the rule of law they'd disclose all their little incidents they'd let the soldiers who break the law take their chances in court(a real one, where there's a chance of them getting convicted for any crimes they've committed and given a real sentence) unfortunately they're not too hot on that idea.
"people would discuss and learn why my post is factually actually and NOT a troll"
Oh it was very factually actually.
believe it or not there are people in this world who when faced with for example the problem that a video showing a police officer beating someone to death has lead to a backlash against the police in that city blame the police officer in question rather than the camera man.
believe it or not there are people who don't blame Seymour Hersh for Mai Lai and the resulting backlash but instead blame the army and soldiers who murdered people.
I'm talking about the basic laws of other countries.
You know. The world outside the US borders.
are you ok with say... chinese agents grabbing american citizens off the streets of New York because they've pissed off the chinese government somehow.
believe it or not people in other countries feel the same way about the prospect of US agents grabbing people off the streets of Paris or beijing.
One wrong? I'm pretty sure those photos showed more than one wrong. There were quite a lot of rapes, plenty of beatings and quite a bit of torture.
Your position is the quintessence bullshit.
Do you hold a similar position about the Mai Lai massacre? How many died due to the backlash from that and the damage to Americas international image? It certainly generated lots of support for anti-American groups worldwide.
or the Iran-Contra affair? Plenty of people died because it showed that the US really was willing to negotiate with hostage takers.
No. The soldier who were raping and torturing prisoners have that blood on their hands. This should be clear to you.
every family who lost someone in the resulting shitstorm should be blaming the scum who were raping and torturing people and as such caused it to happen.... oh! I see you ended your insane rant with the word "Period." I gess I'm wrong then, you've clearly shown that you're right.
You mean charge him with a US law? You realise that he isn't a US citizen right? The US is not the king of the world.
If the US is going to start grabbing wikileaks trustees then they'd have to start ignoring the laws of other countries. In that situation it is entirely reasonable to hold something over them.
You know what would also have prevented the backlash? not raping people.
but no.
It's not the good little soldiers faults!Not our boys in uniform! oh no! It's them nasty reporters who weren't good little patriots and didn't keep quiet.
If someone throws you in prison and rapes or tortures you daily would you prefer that the world never found out about it? that it was never stopped? If a family member of yours was shot because some idiot thought his camera was a gun would you prefer they kept it secret?.....oh! you mean it's ok as long as it's someone else on the other side who's getting raped,tortured or killed?
The same could be said for every reporter who does his job well. Would Nellie Bly or Samuel Hopkins Adams have been happy to have all their medical records exposed to the public? Would Ralph Nader have been happy to have his speedomoter logged and published to everyone? Would Bob Woodward and Carl Bernstein have been happy to have their private conversations taped and published?
"There are, in the body politic, economic and social, many and grave evils, and there is urgent necessity for the sternest war upon them. There should be relentless exposure of and attack upon every evil man whether politician or business man, every evil practice, whether in politics, in business, or in social life. I hail as a benefactor every writer or speaker, every man who, on the platform, or in book, magazine, or newspaper, with merciless severity makes such attack, provided always that he in his turn remembers that the attack is of use only if it is absolutely truthful."
"In the territory of the Third Reich, we should presume he would have similarly exposed Jews, without concerning himself with their fate. If not, perhaps Jewish lives are more sacred to him than Afghan lives?"
Ever heard the term "straw man"?
He's generally anti authoritarian so he'd more likely be leaking the locations of nazi generals who went into hiding and V2 plans.
Believe it or not wikileaks did make an effort to redact sensitive information. To propose a similar strawman, if wikileaks doesn't care about afghans who could be killed by the taliban does that mean you don't care about afghans have been killed by US army fuckups? Would the world be a better place if the military knew it could get away with slaughtering civilians without getting caught?
"The reporters who disclosed those Iraq prison photos literally have the death and murder of a minimum of hundreds of people on their hands."
What The Fuck?
The people who were torturing and raping people have the responsibility. Not the reporters who let everyone know about it.
If a reporter lets the public know about something horrific your country is doing they are not responsible for the backlash. Whoever was doing something horrific and whoever else knew about it and let it continue because they, like you, just want to let it slide quietly has that blood on their hands.
I have to agree though I'd like to state that "people ought to be able to do anything they want with property they own" is more of an ideal than a realistic goal- taking away people's right to do what they want with their own private property should at the very least always have a damned good reason behind it.
If net neutrality constitutes a per se taking then so does anti-monopoly regulation, anti-discrimination laws and unfair trading practices laws.
And the bandwidth goes over fibres which are laid under public roads or through private property with a public utility easement so that the private property owners can't tell the private companies to take a hike when they want to run cables over or under their property.
And if the wireless you use isn't over a regulated frequency I hope you don't mind me setting up a mast broadcasting crap on the same frequency next door to you.
They're incapable of an A-Bomb style explosion simply because once the energy level gets high enough to blow the reactor apart the reactor blows apart.
You'd never see a mushroom cloud from a nuclear reactor.
it's like the difference between a daisy cutter and a petrol engine.
I remember a while back seeing a lovely unit Grover on the SA boards came up with. The problem is that units of radiation tend to be meaningless to most people and they have no rational basis for comparison.
So he started putting everything in terms of SWW(Spooning With Wife, the amount of radiation you receive naturally from her body as a result of spooning with your good lady wife for 8 hours a night for a year)
# Spooning with wife 8 hours a night for a year: 1 SWW (baseline) # Annual US average background radiation = 144 SWW # Radiation you get from natural radioisotopes in your own body (like the carbon-14 used in carbon dating): 16 SWW # 1 Dental X-Ray = 4 SWW # 1 Mammogram = 28 SWW # A single dose of roughly 40,000SWWs is the lower limit of toxicity to humans if received at once - this bit is of course a bit fuzzy since it wouldn't be ethical to zap people with exacting doses of radiation and see if they die. # 400,000SWWs is almost invariably fatal. Protip: limit your spooning to just a few wives at once.
The epa limits could be compared to someone deciding that since almost everyone who falls 20 metres dies that a half metre drop every year for 20 years will kill just the same.
I'm of the opinion that there's no point requiring them to use tech. It can help, lord knows I had a few lecturers who could have done with learning about how to throw their slides up on the net.
To all the lecturers out there:
I can either scribble down whatever you're writing on the board
or
I can listen to what you're saying, read what you're writing and think about it.
probably a bit of self selection there- those who were in particularly bad health or infirm would be less likely to go and live out in the middle of nowhere.
Try this: look up the percentage of cancer deaths in the US, look up the same for the countries downwind of Chernobyl.
In the first world we have plenty of deformed children, they just get fixed up early or lovingly shuffled out of sight. When was the last time you saw a child with a cleft pallet in a first world country? plenty of kids are born with them.
Slashdot Mirror
"In fact, everyone trained in securing information for the U. S. Government is taught not to do that, and to report it if it's happening. Nobody at any level is authorized to do it. Not even the President. So reporting that someone has done it, and bringing an investigation that has the authority to examine the data while it's still classified, is the right thing to do. If the information was illegally classified, the person who did that will be removed from authority to classify it, and the information will be declassified. If the information was hiding a crime, that will be dealt with as well." ... in theory.
If only it really worked.
except for drug counterfitters.
They kill people.
If I buy brand name pills I would prefer they actually contain active ingredients rather than chalk dust.
This one's sat at the back of my mind ever since I read Feynmans account of reviewing math books.
I mean for some things like history every country/area would want significantly different books to focus on local history etc but how is it that basic math books haven't been supplanted by a handful of public domain high quality books?
of course I know the answer is that companies making thin margins printing public domain books don't have so much money to spend on guys in suits to go around and convince the people in charge to use their textbooks.
I know how terrible some of the schoolbooks are yet they get chosen by schools year after year.
If the US army cared about the rule of law they'd disclose all their little incidents they'd let the soldiers who break the law take their chances in court(a real one, where there's a chance of them getting convicted for any crimes they've committed and given a real sentence) unfortunately they're not too hot on that idea.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Calley
Out of interest have you got any of those names that people keep claiming are in the documents?
I'm fairly sure you meant to say "think critically".
May I suggest you try not shooting the messengers.
If you don't like the bad news they carry then endeavour to cause less bad news.
"people would discuss and learn why my post is factually actually and NOT a troll"
Oh it was very factually actually.
believe it or not there are people in this world who when faced with for example the problem that a video showing a police officer beating someone to death has lead to a backlash against the police in that city blame the police officer in question rather than the camera man.
believe it or not there are people who don't blame Seymour Hersh for Mai Lai and the resulting backlash but instead blame the army and soldiers who murdered people.
international law?
What are you on?
I'm talking about the basic laws of other countries.
You know. The world outside the US borders.
are you ok with say... chinese agents grabbing american citizens off the streets of New York because they've pissed off the chinese government somehow.
believe it or not people in other countries feel the same way about the prospect of US agents grabbing people off the streets of Paris or beijing.
One wrong?
I'm pretty sure those photos showed more than one wrong.
There were quite a lot of rapes, plenty of beatings and quite a bit of torture.
Your position is the quintessence bullshit.
Do you hold a similar position about the Mai Lai massacre?
How many died due to the backlash from that and the damage to Americas international image? It certainly generated lots of support for anti-American groups worldwide.
or the Iran-Contra affair?
Plenty of people died because it showed that the US really was willing to negotiate with hostage takers.
No.
The soldier who were raping and torturing prisoners have that blood on their hands.
This should be clear to you.
every family who lost someone in the resulting shitstorm should be blaming the scum who were raping and torturing people and as such caused it to happen. ... oh! I see you ended your insane rant with the word "Period."
I gess I'm wrong then, you've clearly shown that you're right.
You mean charge him with a US law?
You realise that he isn't a US citizen right?
The US is not the king of the world.
If the US is going to start grabbing wikileaks trustees then they'd have to start ignoring the laws of other countries. In that situation it is entirely reasonable to hold something over them.
You know what would also have prevented the backlash?
not raping people.
but no.
It's not the good little soldiers faults!Not our boys in uniform!
oh no!
It's them nasty reporters who weren't good little patriots and didn't keep quiet.
Not revealing secrets can be even more dangerous.
If someone throws you in prison and rapes or tortures you daily would you prefer that the world never found out about it? .....oh! you mean it's ok as long as it's someone else on the other side who's getting raped,tortured or killed?
that it was never stopped?
If a family member of yours was shot because some idiot thought his camera was a gun would you prefer they kept it secret?
The same could be said for every reporter who does his job well.
Would Nellie Bly or Samuel Hopkins Adams have been happy to have all their medical records exposed to the public?
Would Ralph Nader have been happy to have his speedomoter logged and published to everyone?
Would Bob Woodward and Carl Bernstein have been happy to have their private conversations taped and published?
"There are, in the body politic, economic and social, many and grave evils, and there is urgent necessity for the sternest war upon them. There should be relentless exposure of and attack upon every evil man whether politician or business man, every evil practice, whether in politics, in business, or in social life. I hail as a benefactor every writer or speaker, every man who, on the platform, or in book, magazine, or newspaper, with merciless severity makes such attack, provided always that he in his turn remembers that the attack is of use only if it is absolutely truthful."
"In the territory of the Third Reich, we should presume he would have similarly exposed Jews, without concerning himself with their fate. If not, perhaps Jewish lives are more sacred to him than Afghan lives?"
Ever heard the term "straw man"?
He's generally anti authoritarian so he'd more likely be leaking the locations of nazi generals who went into hiding and V2 plans.
Believe it or not wikileaks did make an effort to redact sensitive information.
To propose a similar strawman, if wikileaks doesn't care about afghans who could be killed by the taliban does that mean you don't care about afghans have been killed by US army fuckups?
Would the world be a better place if the military knew it could get away with slaughtering civilians without getting caught?
"The reporters who disclosed those Iraq prison photos literally have the death and murder of a minimum of hundreds of people on their hands."
What The Fuck?
The people who were torturing and raping people have the responsibility.
Not the reporters who let everyone know about it.
If a reporter lets the public know about something horrific your country is doing they are not responsible for the backlash.
Whoever was doing something horrific and whoever else knew about it and let it continue because they, like you, just want to let it slide quietly has that blood on their hands.
I have to agree though I'd like to state that "people ought to be able to do anything they want with property they own" is more of an ideal than a realistic goal- taking away people's right to do what they want with their own private property should at the very least always have a damned good reason behind it.
If net neutrality constitutes a per se taking then so does anti-monopoly regulation, anti-discrimination laws and unfair trading practices laws.
Apparently in that last big leak they did withhold or redact some of the most obviously sensitive-but-not-scandalous information.
And the bandwidth goes over fibres which are laid under public roads or through private property with a public utility easement so that the private property owners can't tell the private companies to take a hike when they want to run cables over or under their property.
And if the wireless you use isn't over a regulated frequency I hope you don't mind me setting up a mast broadcasting crap on the same frequency next door to you.
They're incapable of an A-Bomb style explosion simply because once the energy level gets high enough to blow the reactor apart the reactor blows apart.
You'd never see a mushroom cloud from a nuclear reactor.
it's like the difference between a daisy cutter and a petrol engine.
I remember a while back seeing a lovely unit Grover on the SA boards came up with.
The problem is that units of radiation tend to be meaningless to most people and they have no rational basis for comparison.
So he started putting everything in terms of SWW(Spooning With Wife, the amount of radiation you receive naturally from her body as a result of spooning with your good lady wife for 8 hours a night for a year)
# Spooning with wife 8 hours a night for a year: 1 SWW (baseline)
# Annual US average background radiation = 144 SWW
# Radiation you get from natural radioisotopes in your own body (like the carbon-14 used in carbon dating): 16 SWW
# 1 Dental X-Ray = 4 SWW
# 1 Mammogram = 28 SWW
# A single dose of roughly 40,000SWWs is the lower limit of toxicity to humans if received at once - this bit is of course a bit fuzzy since it wouldn't be ethical to zap people with exacting doses of radiation and see if they die.
# 400,000SWWs is almost invariably fatal. Protip: limit your spooning to just a few wives at once.
The epa limits could be compared to someone deciding that since almost everyone who falls 20 metres dies that a half metre drop every year for 20 years will kill just the same.
I'm of the opinion that there's no point requiring them to use tech.
It can help, lord knows I had a few lecturers who could have done with learning about how to throw their slides up on the net.
To all the lecturers out there:
I can either scribble down whatever you're writing on the board
or
I can listen to what you're saying, read what you're writing and think about it.
Not both.
probably a bit of self selection there- those who were in particularly bad health or infirm would be less likely to go and live out in the middle of nowhere.
Try this: look up the percentage of cancer deaths in the US, look up the same for the countries downwind of Chernobyl.
In the first world we have plenty of deformed children, they just get fixed up early or lovingly shuffled out of sight.
When was the last time you saw a child with a cleft pallet in a first world country?
plenty of kids are born with them.
If you really don't see the irony in that I guess my original assertion was correct.
Probably depend on weather you really were the networking consultant for their company.
Getting authorization to enter the bank vault from the janitor is fairly meaningless if the janitor hasn't the right to grant that access.
previous I was refering to merely obtaining the info, using the passwords would probably be a different matter.