And it has to be proven, beyond a reasonable doubt, I was aware of their presence and did not notify authorities..
(1) possessed less than three matters containing any visual depiction proscribed by that paragraph; and (2) promptly and in good faith, and without retaining or allowing any person, other than a law enforcement agency, to access any visual depiction or copy thereof-- (A) took reasonable steps to destroy each such visual depiction; or (B) reported the matter to a law enforcement agency and afforded that agency access to each such visual depiction.
"Funny, I could have swore Reagan was president in the 80s not the 70s. "
Elected in 80 while the soviets were still rolling in Afghanistan, Americans were hostages in Iran, and the economy was still very weak. Many people of the day thought the soviet Union if not more powerful than the US was *at least* an equal.
"When you say *MANY* people, how many of those people are included in the "founding fathers?""
Right because it was only the authors of the constitution that took up arms and not the populous.
"It's funny you should bring him up now since he was one of the most vocal opponents of hereditary power among the founders (which is ironic because he secured the governorship of New Jersey for his son while in London, but nobody's perfect)."
He wa snot against the US staying part of great Brittan for most of his life even up to the point where relations were getting strained. He was a huge believer in the Anglo-American Empire.
"recommend reading to anyone unless it's the latest work of fiction by Anne Coulter, Bill O'Reilly, or Michael Moore in that case you would be better off smoking some crack"
Not a fan of any of their books, I prefer less interpretation and more communication in historical works.
"But what does any of this have to do with Ronald Reagan whipping up anti-government sentiment?"
I did not bring it up, someone else did. My point was that a large powerful *central* government is what Regan was talking about, not government in general. regan catches allot of flak for a misunderstood statement the full quote was:
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem."
Reagan was not panning the office of human government he was speaking about current problems, specifically economic ones, and how the governments hand had a role in cresting them.
"Technically, according to US law, the person discovering the pictures on the phone can be charged with possession of child pornography (they legally took possession of the phone) as simple possession is all that is required. You don't even have to be aware you are in possession or have any intent of such material to have your life destroyed by this law."
No they cant the law spells that out pretty clearly!
18-110-2252-C
Affirmative Defense.-- It shall be an affirmative defense to a charge of violating paragraph (4) of subsection (a) that the defendant-- (1) possessed less than three matters containing any visual depiction proscribed by that paragraph; and (2) promptly and in good faith, and without retaining or allowing any person, other than a law enforcement agency, to access any visual depiction or copy thereof-- (A) took reasonable steps to destroy each such visual depiction; or (B) reported the matter to a law enforcement agency and afforded that agency access to each such visual depiction.
Actually *unless* they knew it had objectionable material on it when the took the phone they are in complete compliance with USC 18-110-2252-a-2 which deals with possession
Any person who-- knowingly receives, or distributes, any visual depiction that has been mailed, or has been shipped or transported in interstate or foreign commerce, or which contains materials which have been mailed or so shipped or transported, by any means including by computer, or knowingly reproduces any visual depiction for distribution in interstate or foreign commerce or through the mails, if--
Also if you look at section C of that law you can see what I was getting to earlier
Affirmative Defense.-- It shall be an affirmative defense to a charge of violating paragraph (4) of subsection (a) that the defendant-- (1) possessed less than three matters containing any visual depiction proscribed by that paragraph; and (2) promptly and in good faith, and without retaining or allowing any person, other than a law enforcement agency, to access any visual depiction or copy thereof-- (A) took reasonable steps to destroy each such visual depiction; or (B) reported the matter to a law enforcement agency and afforded that agency access to each such visual depiction.
** THATS ** the law..
"If I secretly copy some to your computer and then anonymously turn you in, you can be arrested and go to jail; your life forever destroyed."
Not if I could show I did not put it there and did not distribute. If these teachers had seen the images and did *not* report it, then they would have committed a crime.
"Teacher who confiscates a nude photo that a teenager took of herself, becomes the first adult in possession of the image. Where is the specific guarantee of immunity to charges?"
The older boy 17, may be an adult in PA but IANAL.
Given the teacher immediately turned everything over to the police I would think there is no risk of being charged... Its not, after all, illegal to report a crime..
I am personally of the mind that we do away with Government marriage, period. Marriage is/should be an commitment to a person, community, and God not one to a state..
"The English government at the time was one of the most modern, democratic and capitalist in the world."
If you live in England, Scotland or NI, then yes... it was no doubt one of the best govts of its day..
"The American Founding Fathers were essentially just Englishmen that decided they'd rather be collecting their own taxes than paying someone else."
It had nothing to do with collection it had to do with the lack of representation. I dont care who collects my taxes but I better have a say in who decides what they are. The fact England wanted to make the American colonies the B^$%& of English trading companies and a big fat pig to suckle taxes out of while Americans enjoyed fewer rights than those in England.
"George III had less say in the running of England during the time of the American declaration of independence than Bush had over the running of the USA in the last 8 years."
George the III also had less say in the running of England than Tony Blair for did a decade whats your point? That America today has strayed from its principles... no doubt there..
"That's true, the founding fathers fought a revolution against bad governments and once they ousted the British they invented the monarchy and named George Washington the ruler of the land and all our presidents since then have been his descendants."
Actually they revolted against a powerful government which was active in peoples every day lives and created a weak one which should seldom be seen..
"Also true, the soviets were doing so well under communism it seemed no one could stop them. Only the keen intellect of Ronald Reagan was able to find a way to undermine that fundamentally sound Marxist economy."
In the late 70's people believed the US would be crushed and the Soviets were not doing as badly as one might think. They did have a huge amount of oil and natural gas, the attitude among many were that they were a healthier economy than us..
"The founding fathers fought against unchecked hereditary power and created the government you hate so much. Communism defeated itself. Take some of those trickle down dollars and buy a clue."
Unchecked... Umm House of commons/lords means anything to you? The monarchy in England was under check for nearly a half millennium before the revolution.
The founders fought against a lack of representation *not* against hereditary rule. Many, *MANY*, people wanted George Washing to be a king in a constitutional monarchy not much different than the English monarchy and anyone who has studied Franklin knows that until he was humiliated in England by his enemies he was quite content to stay a part of great Brittan on the condition of representation and equality with English citizens.
Before you chastise others by telling them to 'buy a clue' maybe you should read a book..
Its a cultural problem. California (dems) has been going bankrupt for years, so has NY (dems and rinos), and a fed run mostly by the GOP... The fact is *both* parties are so busy buying our votes that there is no hope of getting out of debt..
"He popularized the idea that "government is the problem"
Actually that idea was popularized by the founding fathers who knew that Government sucked so bad that it needed a leash (B.O.R) and that the 10th was needed to keep the federal government in its place. Having lived in two very Different states (NY and Minnesota) I can tell you tat some government suck less (Minnesota) than others (NY) but given the fact the states are to be laboratories of democracy the federal government almost always sucks.
"militarization, possibly in hopes of bankrupting the federal government."
Horse manure, link or not its still horse manure. RR was trying to bankrupt the Soviet government not the US government something he successfully did.
Actually no, my argument is that comparing Schindler who lost his fortune and riksed his life is made less when comparing it to Google posting a frivilous law suit..
Where did I say anything about religion? someone said you have to be married to visit at a catholic hospital and I pointed out my then gf had me as her proxy at a catholic hospital.
"Im going to guess you were not a same sex couple at a religious hospital? "
We were unmarried but it was a religious hospital... saint something or other... but the laws regarding visitation and proxy don't know gender or religion Catholic hospitals have to obey them just as county hospitals would. Yes its a pain filling out and filing a piece of paper but it does get the 'I cant visit' out of the way.
"Same sex couples have and ARE being denied visitation rights to partners because they are not married."
No they are being denied because they are not married and *have not filled out medical proxy paper work* if you really want to serve the homosexual community regarding this please at least tell them of the rights they do have rather than just tell them they dont have any.
"and you may want to check your federal and state based inheritance laws to see just how often the word "marriage" and "spouse" come up."
Marriage creates a 'default' set of conditions for inheritance it does *not* supersede a will
"there are also little things like "not everyone has a will"."
Not everyone has insurance either that does not mean they *cant* have it.
Nice subtle link into Goodwin! When in doubt compare someone to a nazi!
but the equivalent for Google is to provide benefits and compensate for any 'tax penalties' gay employees might face. Did Schindler sue the government or just use his personal wealth to help people?
So much of this is bunk.. (other than the 'tax breaks')
Visitation rights: before I was married to my wife I was not only granted visitation I was her medical proxy! Marriage is not required for that
Inheritance: Do you need to be married to write a will?
Do you know what hurts employment in California? insanely high taxes, wasteful spending and over regulation but if a company sued about that they would be 'evil'
Many companies in states without same sex marriage provide same sex benefits. And Google is more than welcome to recognize any marriage it pleases, it can even have anniversary parties..
This is just a cooperation pushing its personal politics and just because many agree with it does not make that any more acceptable.
Slashdot Mirror
Not in schools and not if the intent is to 'gather evidence' If you take your car to a mechanic and there is a body in the trunk he can report it..
And it has to be proven, beyond a reasonable doubt, I was aware of their presence and did not notify authorities..
(1) possessed less than three matters containing any visual depiction proscribed by that paragraph; and
(2) promptly and in good faith, and without retaining or allowing any person, other than a law enforcement agency, to access any visual depiction or copy thereof--
(A) took reasonable steps to destroy each such visual depiction; or
(B) reported the matter to a law enforcement agency and afforded that agency access to each such visual depiction.
"Funny, I could have swore Reagan was president in the 80s not the 70s. "
Elected in 80 while the soviets were still rolling in Afghanistan, Americans were hostages in Iran, and the economy was still very weak. Many people of the day thought the soviet Union if not more powerful than the US was *at least* an equal.
"When you say *MANY* people, how many of those people are included in the "founding fathers?""
Right because it was only the authors of the constitution that took up arms and not the populous.
"It's funny you should bring him up now since he was one of the most vocal opponents of hereditary power among the founders (which is ironic because he secured the governorship of New Jersey for his son while in London, but nobody's perfect)."
He wa snot against the US staying part of great Brittan for most of his life even up to the point where relations were getting strained. He was a huge believer in the Anglo-American Empire.
"recommend reading to anyone unless it's the latest work of fiction by Anne Coulter, Bill O'Reilly, or Michael Moore in that case you would be better off smoking some crack"
Not a fan of any of their books, I prefer less interpretation and more communication in historical works.
"But what does any of this have to do with Ronald Reagan whipping up anti-government sentiment?"
I did not bring it up, someone else did. My point was that a large powerful *central* government is what Regan was talking about, not government in general. regan catches allot of flak for a misunderstood statement the full quote was:
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem."
Reagan was not panning the office of human government he was speaking about current problems, specifically economic ones, and how the governments hand had a role in cresting them.
Had the boys reported it immediately under section C of the particular law dealing with child pornography they would not have been deemed guilty.
"Technically, according to US law, the person discovering the pictures on the phone can be charged with possession of child pornography (they legally took possession of the phone) as simple possession is all that is required. You don't even have to be aware you are in possession or have any intent of such material to have your life destroyed by this law."
No they cant the law spells that out pretty clearly!
18-110-2252-C
Affirmative Defense.-- It shall be an affirmative defense to a charge of violating paragraph (4) of subsection (a) that the defendant--
(1) possessed less than three matters containing any visual depiction proscribed by that paragraph; and
(2) promptly and in good faith, and without retaining or allowing any person, other than a law enforcement agency, to access any visual depiction or copy thereof--
(A) took reasonable steps to destroy each such visual depiction; or
(B) reported the matter to a law enforcement agency and afforded that agency access to each such visual depiction.
"It is illegal to be in possession of child pornography, regardless of knowledge of possession or intent. That's the law."
http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode18/usc_sec_18_00002252----000-.html
Actually *unless* they knew it had objectionable material on it when the took the phone they are in complete compliance with USC 18-110-2252-a-2 which deals with possession
Any person who-- knowingly receives, or distributes, any visual depiction that has been mailed, or has been shipped or transported in interstate or foreign commerce, or which contains materials which have been mailed or so shipped or transported, by any means including by computer, or knowingly reproduces any visual depiction for distribution in interstate or foreign commerce or through the mails, if--
Also if you look at section C of that law you can see what I was getting to earlier
Affirmative Defense.-- It shall be an affirmative defense to a charge of violating paragraph (4) of subsection (a) that the defendant--
(1) possessed less than three matters containing any visual depiction proscribed by that paragraph; and
(2) promptly and in good faith, and without retaining or allowing any person, other than a law enforcement agency, to access any visual depiction or copy thereof--
(A) took reasonable steps to destroy each such visual depiction; or
(B) reported the matter to a law enforcement agency and afforded that agency access to each such visual depiction.
** THATS ** the law..
"If I secretly copy some to your computer and then anonymously turn you in, you can be arrested and go to jail; your life forever destroyed."
Not if I could show I did not put it there and did not distribute. If these teachers had seen the images and did *not* report it, then they would have committed a crime.
When, exactly is it illegal to witness a crime? and does a teacher lawfully taking a cellphone rise to that level.
lol, yea too much trusting firefox not enough actually reading what corrections it would make ;)
"Teacher who confiscates a nude photo that a teenager took of herself, becomes the first adult in possession of the image. Where is the specific guarantee of immunity to charges?"
The older boy 17, may be an adult in PA but IANAL.
Given the teacher immediately turned everything over to the police I would think there is no risk of being charged... Its not, after all, illegal to report a crime..
Teachers have a right to confiscate property from a teen and are obligated by law to report violations of criminal codes.
A police office could not walk into the school and take the phone (sans warrant) but they way this played out it was completely legal.
Technically they did break the law, all they need is a sensible judge to set a president here..
I am personally of the mind that we do away with Government marriage, period. Marriage is/should be an commitment to a person, community, and God not one to a state..
wow what a hole in the wall post...
"The English government at the time was one of the most modern, democratic and capitalist in the world."
If you live in England, Scotland or NI, then yes... it was no doubt one of the best govts of its day..
"The American Founding Fathers were essentially just Englishmen that decided they'd rather be collecting their own taxes than paying someone else."
It had nothing to do with collection it had to do with the lack of representation. I dont care who collects my taxes but I better have a say in who decides what they are. The fact England wanted to make the American colonies the B^$%& of English trading companies and a big fat pig to suckle taxes out of while Americans enjoyed fewer rights than those in England.
"George III had less say in the running of England during the time of the American declaration of independence than Bush had over the running of the USA in the last 8 years."
George the III also had less say in the running of England than Tony Blair for did a decade whats your point? That America today has strayed from its principles... no doubt there..
lol Ive posted on *three* threads in the past 10 days... If I am on *every* article you read I have my own personal stalker..
"That's true, the founding fathers fought a revolution against bad governments and once they ousted the British they invented the monarchy and named George Washington the ruler of the land and all our presidents since then have been his descendants."
Actually they revolted against a powerful government which was active in peoples every day lives and created a weak one which should seldom be seen..
"Also true, the soviets were doing so well under communism it seemed no one could stop them. Only the keen intellect of Ronald Reagan was able to find a way to undermine that fundamentally sound Marxist economy."
In the late 70's people believed the US would be crushed and the Soviets were not doing as badly as one might think. They did have a huge amount of oil and natural gas, the attitude among many were that they were a healthier economy than us..
"The founding fathers fought against unchecked hereditary power and created the government you hate so much. Communism defeated itself. Take some of those trickle down dollars and buy a clue."
Unchecked... Umm House of commons/lords means anything to you? The monarchy in England was under check for nearly a half millennium before the revolution.
The founders fought against a lack of representation *not* against hereditary rule. Many, *MANY*, people wanted George Washing to be a king in a constitutional monarchy not much different than the English monarchy and anyone who has studied Franklin knows that until he was humiliated in England by his enemies he was quite content to stay a part of great Brittan on the condition of representation and equality with English citizens.
Before you chastise others by telling them to 'buy a clue' maybe you should read a book..
Its a cultural problem. California (dems) has been going bankrupt for years, so has NY (dems and rinos), and a fed run mostly by the GOP... The fact is *both* parties are so busy buying our votes that there is no hope of getting out of debt..
"Uh-huh. You do realize that one of the first actions of our founding fathers was to buy up state debt to establish national credit, right?"
And what was done with that credit... oh yea they were building up a national defense...
"Blame Ronnie Raygun"
Oh lol, how original...
"He popularized the idea that "government is the problem"
Actually that idea was popularized by the founding fathers who knew that Government sucked so bad that it needed a leash (B.O.R) and that the 10th was needed to keep the federal government in its place. Having lived in two very Different states (NY and Minnesota) I can tell you tat some government suck less (Minnesota) than others (NY) but given the fact the states are to be laboratories of democracy the federal government almost always sucks.
"militarization, possibly in hopes of bankrupting the federal government."
Horse manure, link or not its still horse manure. RR was trying to bankrupt the Soviet government not the US government something he successfully did.
Actually no, my argument is that comparing Schindler who lost his fortune and riksed his life is made less when comparing it to Google posting a frivilous law suit..
Where did I say anything about religion? someone said you have to be married to visit at a catholic hospital and I pointed out my then gf had me as her proxy at a catholic hospital.
Wait this law also keeps Canadians out... wow that's a two-fer...
--
Sorry I could not help it, I love Canada as I am from upstate NY and have family there but we love to kid each other.
"Im going to guess you were not a same sex couple at a religious hospital? "
We were unmarried but it was a religious hospital... saint something or other... but the laws regarding visitation and proxy don't know gender or religion Catholic hospitals have to obey them just as county hospitals would. Yes its a pain filling out and filing a piece of paper but it does get the 'I cant visit' out of the way.
"Same sex couples have and ARE being denied visitation rights to partners because they are not married."
No they are being denied because they are not married and *have not filled out medical proxy paper work* if you really want to serve the homosexual community regarding this please at least tell them of the rights they do have rather than just tell them they dont have any.
"and you may want to check your federal and state based inheritance laws to see just how often the word "marriage" and "spouse" come up."
Marriage creates a 'default' set of conditions for inheritance it does *not* supersede a will
"there are also little things like "not everyone has a will"."
Not everyone has insurance either that does not mean they *cant* have it.
Nice subtle link into Goodwin! When in doubt compare someone to a nazi!
but the equivalent for Google is to provide benefits and compensate for any 'tax penalties' gay employees might face. Did Schindler sue the government or just use his personal wealth to help people?
So much of this is bunk.. (other than the 'tax breaks')
Visitation rights: before I was married to my wife I was not only granted visitation I was her medical proxy! Marriage is not required for that
Inheritance: Do you need to be married to write a will?
Do you know what hurts employment in California? insanely high taxes, wasteful spending and over regulation but if a company sued about that they would be 'evil'
Many companies in states without same sex marriage provide same sex benefits. And Google is more than welcome to recognize any marriage it pleases, it can even have anniversary parties..
This is just a cooperation pushing its personal politics and just because many agree with it does not make that any more acceptable.