The guy's trying to prove a point that Bulldozer -- which is, again, unreleased -- is looking underpowered, and he's doing it by pointing to a message board full of fanboy speculation. It's 8 pages of posts. I'm basically calling BS on the guy's suggestion that BD is looking underpowered -- frankly, no one but AMD knows anything about BD's performance. No. One. At. All.
It is all speculation...based on what? There's all this crap in here about AMD being the reason that we're not still using 2GHz Pentium4s, blah, blah, blah.
This [arstechnica.com] thread has some interesting information on possible BD performance.
.....
This is 301 posts with back and forth that looks basically to be speculation. Prove me wrong by quoting specific statements of those that have benched the [unreleased] bulldozer. Because otherwise, this link is basically a bunch of AMD fanboys fighting against Intel fanboys. But prove me wrong...
I'm not saying don't buy the power -- I think that's pretty obvious from even a careless reading of my comment.
But to clarify for you -- I'm saying, don't buy the power today for applications not available today because you can get the same amount of power in a few months for a 25% discount. Even then, the applications will probably not be there yet...
If $200 is a steal today, wouldn't $150 be a better deal 4 months from now? Saving 25% on one of the most expensive components of a computer that I'll have for three or four years seems like a worthwhile bargain for waiting a few months...
Anyone notice that weird benchmarks TFA uses for the gaming performance evaluation? TFA compares several processors against the X4 980 by running a pair of games at low quality with minimal quality to "isolate out the graphics card:"
we drop the resolution to 800x600, and reduce all of the in-game graphical options to their minimum values to isolate CPU and memory performance as much as possible. However, the in-game effects, which control the level of detail for the games' physics engines and particle systems, are left at their maximum values, since these actually do place some load on the CPU rather than GPU.
I find it hard to believe that the guys at "hothardware.com" know enough about 3d game architecture to have any understanding of what places a load on the CPU and what places a load on the GPU. Anyone have any thoughts?
I'll be waiting for the dust to clear with Bulldozer before I make a commitment for my next build. No reason to buy a $200 Phenom II X4 980 now when there is no application that needs that much power. If you buy a Sandy Bridge or a higher-end AM3 board/processor now, your average gamer or office worker won't be able to max it out for years -- unless he does video editing or extensive photo shop or if he has to get his DVD rips down to a 10 minute rip vs a 15 minute rip per feature film...
Might as well wait for the dust to clear or for prices to fall.
There are a lot of stories to be told. Not everyone has to tell the same one. I'm sure you didn't find out about that 20,000 based on your own research or based on desperate missives on the red cross website. I'm betting that you read it in a news story. The fact that you read it means that it was covered. So someone covers the 20,000 bodies and now slashdot is covering the business and economic impact of those the electricity outages. What exactly is wrong with that?
Could be that a Japanese supplier was the only one that could guarantee a required volume.
So the question, then, is -- why can Taiwanese suppliers not guarantee a required volume? It's not as if they don't have a large enough workforce to support this kind of production. I would suggest that production technology in Taiwan is behind the state-of-the-art used in Japan. I would also suggest that training of production personnel and engineering oversight hasn't gotten Taiwanese personnel to the same level as those similar actors in Japan.
In any case, I'm thinking that parent's (jackd's) original hypothesis that the temporary shift to Taiwanese production of components formerly made in Japan may lead to quality issues. There is a reason that Taiwan hasn't been doing this for less money that Japan for years -- I think it's because they can't, not because of some coincidence.
Good point. Japan hasn't been a low-cost manufacturing location for a long, long time. That begs the question of why not go with Taiwan production even before the quake. I think that you're onto the answer to that question with your post...
I guarantee you the last thing that the Japanese want is for us to stop wanting their stuff real bad. Charity and well wishes about the "toll it's taken" on them will only go so far.
I've been looking forward to building a new Sandy Bridge system and the disaster in Japan has thrown quite a wrench in it, I'm afraid. The high-quality Asus and MSI motherboards are, of course, assembled in China. However, it is my understanding that the high-quality capacitors and some of the other vital components in the boards are manufactured in Japan.
The revision 3 boards -- with the cougar point SATA issue resolved -- have been in short supply since...well, up to now. I was anticipating several months of supply -- oversupply, specifically -- to knock down the price of the boards, some of which are selling _above_ MSRP -- particularly the Asus P8P67 Pro. From what I understand, Asus, MSI, gigabyte, and the rest are having enough trouble just getting boards to folks that RMA'd their original boards, which is why so few are in the retail channel.
That, of course, leads me to the fear that the Japan-related supply shortage shoe has yet to drop. Kind of sucks.
Yeah, I'm sure there's a super robust and objective way for every single person to achieve as many XPs as they want to chase after. There's likely no management favoritism involved in the process at all.
Researchers at the University are undertaking an in-depth study of energy consumption within the new network, with the aim of demonstrating that running a large network of devices on DC rather than AC is both more secure and more energy efficient.
The new DC network also offers greater security. DC power supply units have a simpler design, with fewer parts that could fail and need replacing. The system at the University also charges a number of batteries when usage levels are low to allow the system to run independently from the grid for up to eight hours should a cut in power be experienced.
The above two paragraphs are the only I could find in TFA that mention security. I gotta ask -- can anyone speculate how centralizing the PSU would lead to a more secure system? Is it possible that there is a regional definition of "secure" to mean "very reliabile" or "very available." As in, we have "secured" a constant municipal water supply?
HALNet has access to AT&T's network. Can you tell me a DSL-dealer that has a wholesale agreement with AT&T's network in Southern California? I can't find one...
I just spoke with my wife about her virus and suggested it might have come in through some rogue PDF document. She acknowledged that as a definite possibility; she's constantly downloading and reviewing scientific papers and the like -- a rogue PDF could have easily slipped into the pile somehow, theoretically. I advised that she switch to Sumatra PDF.
Could you be accused of trying to commit fraud? Someone might get the impression that someone at your IP is trying to use a bundle of stolen CC numbers.
Slashdot Mirror
The guy's trying to prove a point that Bulldozer -- which is, again, unreleased -- is looking underpowered, and he's doing it by pointing to a message board full of fanboy speculation. It's 8 pages of posts. I'm basically calling BS on the guy's suggestion that BD is looking underpowered -- frankly, no one but AMD knows anything about BD's performance.
No.
One.
At.
All.
It is all speculation...based on what? There's all this crap in here about AMD being the reason that we're not still using 2GHz Pentium4s, blah, blah, blah.
This [arstechnica.com] thread has some interesting information on possible BD performance.
.....
This is 301 posts with back and forth that looks basically to be speculation. Prove me wrong by quoting specific statements of those that have benched the [unreleased] bulldozer. Because otherwise, this link is basically a bunch of AMD fanboys fighting against Intel fanboys. But prove me wrong...
But is it also well known that increasing resolutions and knocking off all the effects dose nothing to the CPU performance?
I'm not saying don't buy the power -- I think that's pretty obvious from even a careless reading of my comment.
But to clarify for you -- I'm saying, don't buy the power today for applications not available today because you can get the same amount of power in a few months for a 25% discount. Even then, the applications will probably not be there yet...
If $200 is a steal today, wouldn't $150 be a better deal 4 months from now? Saving 25% on one of the most expensive components of a computer that I'll have for three or four years seems like a worthwhile bargain for waiting a few months...
Anyone notice that weird benchmarks TFA uses for the gaming performance evaluation? TFA compares several processors against the X4 980 by running a pair of games at low quality with minimal quality to "isolate out the graphics card:"
we drop the resolution to 800x600, and reduce all of the in-game graphical options to their minimum values to isolate CPU and memory performance as much as possible. However, the in-game effects, which control the level of detail for the games' physics engines and particle systems, are left at their maximum values, since these actually do place some load on the CPU rather than GPU.
I find it hard to believe that the guys at "hothardware.com" know enough about 3d game architecture to have any understanding of what places a load on the CPU and what places a load on the GPU. Anyone have any thoughts?
I'll be waiting for the dust to clear with Bulldozer before I make a commitment for my next build. No reason to buy a $200 Phenom II X4 980 now when there is no application that needs that much power. If you buy a Sandy Bridge or a higher-end AM3 board/processor now, your average gamer or office worker won't be able to max it out for years -- unless he does video editing or extensive photo shop or if he has to get his DVD rips down to a 10 minute rip vs a 15 minute rip per feature film...
Might as well wait for the dust to clear or for prices to fall.
Citation?
Really?
There are a lot of stories to be told. Not everyone has to tell the same one. I'm sure you didn't find out about that 20,000 based on your own research or based on desperate missives on the red cross website. I'm betting that you read it in a news story. The fact that you read it means that it was covered. So someone covers the 20,000 bodies and now slashdot is covering the business and economic impact of those the electricity outages. What exactly is wrong with that?
Could be that a Japanese supplier was the only one that could guarantee a required volume.
So the question, then, is -- why can Taiwanese suppliers not guarantee a required volume? It's not as if they don't have a large enough workforce to support this kind of production. I would suggest that production technology in Taiwan is behind the state-of-the-art used in Japan. I would also suggest that training of production personnel and engineering oversight hasn't gotten Taiwanese personnel to the same level as those similar actors in Japan.
In any case, I'm thinking that parent's (jackd's) original hypothesis that the temporary shift to Taiwanese production of components formerly made in Japan may lead to quality issues. There is a reason that Taiwan hasn't been doing this for less money that Japan for years -- I think it's because they can't, not because of some coincidence.
Good point. Japan hasn't been a low-cost manufacturing location for a long, long time. That begs the question of why not go with Taiwan production even before the quake. I think that you're onto the answer to that question with your post...
I guarantee you the last thing that the Japanese want is for us to stop wanting their stuff real bad. Charity and well wishes about the "toll it's taken" on them will only go so far.
I've been looking forward to building a new Sandy Bridge system and the disaster in Japan has thrown quite a wrench in it, I'm afraid. The high-quality Asus and MSI motherboards are, of course, assembled in China. However, it is my understanding that the high-quality capacitors and some of the other vital components in the boards are manufactured in Japan.
The revision 3 boards -- with the cougar point SATA issue resolved -- have been in short supply since...well, up to now. I was anticipating several months of supply -- oversupply, specifically -- to knock down the price of the boards, some of which are selling _above_ MSRP -- particularly the Asus P8P67 Pro. From what I understand, Asus, MSI, gigabyte, and the rest are having enough trouble just getting boards to folks that RMA'd their original boards, which is why so few are in the retail channel.
That, of course, leads me to the fear that the Japan-related supply shortage shoe has yet to drop. Kind of sucks.
Then again, I didn't loose my house...
Replying to void accidental "redundant" moderation. Meant "insightful" :)
Sure -- a library. But how many libraries of congress would it hold?
Yeah, I'm sure there's a super robust and objective way for every single person to achieve as many XPs as they want to chase after. There's likely no management favoritism involved in the process at all.
Selective quotes from TFA:
Researchers at the University are undertaking an in-depth study of energy consumption within the new network, with the aim of demonstrating that running a large network of devices on DC rather than AC is both more secure and more energy efficient.
The new DC network also offers greater security. DC power supply units have a simpler design, with fewer parts that could fail and need replacing. The system at the University also charges a number of batteries when usage levels are low to allow the system to run independently from the grid for up to eight hours should a cut in power be experienced.
The above two paragraphs are the only I could find in TFA that mention security. I gotta ask -- can anyone speculate how centralizing the PSU would lead to a more secure system? Is it possible that there is a regional definition of "secure" to mean "very reliabile" or "very available." As in, we have "secured" a constant municipal water supply?
Can you break down that math? It sounds like you left out either Apollo 8 or Apollo 10, both of which included 3 astronauts that went beyond LEO.
From wikipedia:
How did you get 26? 26 isn't even divisible by 3...
There were 11 manned missions that lifted-off and 2 of of those didn't go further than low earth orbit.
9*3 = 27.
HALNet has access to AT&T's network. Can you tell me a DSL-dealer that has a wholesale agreement with AT&T's network in Southern California? I can't find one...
And those services would be what? Comcast? Cellular?
I just spoke with my wife about her virus and suggested it might have come in through some rogue PDF document. She acknowledged that as a definite possibility; she's constantly downloading and reviewing scientific papers and the like -- a rogue PDF could have easily slipped into the pile somehow, theoretically. I advised that she switch to Sumatra PDF.
Could you be accused of trying to commit fraud? Someone might get the impression that someone at your IP is trying to use a bundle of stolen CC numbers.
Honestly, I have no idea where it came from. Given the kind of work that she does on the computer, I could see it coming through an Adobe Reader hole.