I haven't exactly "justified" the killings, now have I? I've already stated that mistakes happen. The "fog of war". Innocent people die in war - and I cited that years ago as a reason NOT TO GO TO WAR.
If you read carefully, you'll see that I've found no reason to accuse any of the troopers involved with a crime. But, there WAS a tragic mistake made. Innocent people did die.
You confuse that with "cold blooded murder"??? You are obviously unqualified to ever serve on a jury. If summoned for jury duty, be sure to tell the prosecuting attorney that you don't understand the difference between murder and homicide.
"but if it can be automated, why wasn't it before now?"
Two words. "cost effectiveness"
In the United States, investing in a fleet of robots can be cheaper than supporting a hundred workers. In China, you can employ an ARMY of workers, for the investment required for a single robot.
This is the reason so many corporations are moving to China - not to help the Chinese who need jobs, but to make as much profit as possible, for as little investment as possible.
No, you don't - but it helps when you know what you're talking about.
If you have never stood at the wrong end of a gun, it's near impossible to imagine being there for days, weeks, or even months.
Personally, I've only spent several hours of my life standing at the wrong ends of lethal weapons. I don't consider myself qualified to judge the actions taken by front line soldiers, day in and day out. But, at least I have a few clues about what they are going through.
Obviously, if you saw the video, your vision is so bad that you could never get into the military if you wanted to. There were most definitely AK-47's among the people who were shot up. How many? Sorry, I never got a reliable count - more than 4, probably less than 10. As for the camera, I couldn't tell what it was in the video. It resembles a weapon. It resembles a weapon enough that I may very well have made the call that got the cameraman killed.
It is also obvious that you have not read the headings and the commentary that are associated with the video. The Apache was CALLED to the area, BECAUSE ground troops took fire. They didn't just happen along - their buddies were shot at, they were called to find the bad guys, and they found armed men, right where they EXPECTED to find hostile troops.
If you were a soldier, you might understand that you ALWAYS shoot when there is a misunderstanding.
And, your translation is probably on target. You don't win hearts and minds in an occupied territory. A nation that is only ~200 years old, is certainly not going to do much "nation building" in a region whose history goes back ~5000 years. We've shot ourselves in the foot on this one. No matter when, or how, we finally pull our last troops out of Iraq, within two decades (at the outside) Iraq will probably have a theocracy in place, AND be aligned with Iran. (Keep in mind that the US toppled a perfectly legitimate democratic government in Iran - Iraq will identify with them once they tire of our puppets!)
But, again, we are discussing two different things here, one being the politics of the war, and two being the actions of the troops. Based on what I can see in the video, I can probably justify some Extra Military Duty for some of the troops, to be used for an ass chewing for getting it wrong, and for training, and review of the rules of engagement. I certainly don't see anyone doing anything "WRONG", in regards to the rules of war.
You're commenting on the politician who sent the troops there, or the troops? There is a difference. I have no use at all for George Dubya Bush and his cronies. I thought the reasons given for invading Iraq were bullshit - and I hate the Bush administration for giving people like you ammunition to use against the military. But, if you're honest, you'll admit that the troops and the politicians are easily distinguishable. The politicians, to a man, are cowards hiding behind the guns held by the troops.
I respect the troops, for doing the dirty jobs they are sent out to do.
I have no respect for the politicians who can't figure out when and where the troops should be used.
Well - if you're an ignoramus, you might say so. I have more medals for Humanitarian Services than all other awards combined. We HELP people at least as much as we hurt people.
You're welcome to use the insult. Just for info, a "push-button" in the Navy is any technician who got to sit around in a nice cozy classroom for a couple years, then sewed a Petty Officer's insignia on, just for graduating. Not a terrible insult, but somewhat derogatory when used by men who had to EARN their ratings the hard way. A "shitbird" in any branch is the worthless little turd who never manages to do anything right, and is consistently more trouble than he is worth. Shitbirds are more often discharged with a "convenience of the government" reason, than any other type of discharge.
If Microsoft wants to make an addon, update, toolbar, or any other damned thing for Firefox, they should submit it through proper channels. If it's alright for them to make updates to Firefox, then it's equally alright for Jumpin' Jack Haxor Flash to start distributing updates for Windows.
Uhhhh - I didn't see the same video you saw. I saw an Apache firing on a group of armed men, located in an area from which our ground troops took fire.
I'm not looking to get into a pissing contest, since I like most of your posts here - but for those who haven't SEEN the video, there are two sides to the story. Whichever side you take on the story, you most definitely need to remember that old "fog of war" thing. Mistakes are made, in every war, and the video in question documents one of them.
Point of fact: there were weapons among the men on the ground who were killed. The camera that the reporter was carrying was mistaken for a rocket launcher. The reporter's fate was sealed when he aimed that thing in the direction of our troops on the ground. The men in the Apache believed that he was preparing to fire on American troops.
As for Manning - I have just about made up my mind that he is nothing but a push-button shitbird, and he should have been run out of the military a lot quicker. As much as I support Wikileaks, I simply cannot see that Manning had any good reason for leaking that particular video. All he cared about was damaging the military, out of spite.
Yeah - it's going to cost to train on Win7 - then Win8 - than again on Win9 (or whatever other half-assed renaming scheme Microsoft decides to use next).
Why not invest the same money as you're going to spend on Win7 for *nix training, once, and be done with it? Take the licensing, training, and IT costs associated with upgrading to Win7, and they certainly exceed the costs of migrating to *nix. And, you'll have the same costs to look forward to again in 3 years, or 5 years, until hell freezes over. With *nix, there are not licensing fees, the support costs will decrease over time as your users become more proficient, and the training fees are pretty much a one time thing.
It just makes no sense to me, to pay the costs for Windows upgrades. No cents, either!
I believe that if you refuse to identify yourself to a cop, he can, and almost certainly will, take you to the police station, where he will identify you by fingerprints if necessary. Ask a cop. It depends on the seriousness of the situation, of course, but if the cop bothered himself to ask your name, he has some kind of reason. Otherwise, he would be at the donut shop, right?
I'm not *real happy* with that pub, as it is quite different than what I was taught - but it uses many of the same concepts, without going into depth. There is related reading on the site - you might find something better than this particular pub.
No government, no organization, can be run without authority. Authoritarism as defined in your dictionary citation is misleading, and doesn't even begin to define what authority is, or what it derives from in a democratic society.
Blind obedience? Good grief. The most authoritarian organizations in the United States are the branches of the military. I was taught that blind obedience is contrary to good order and discipline - I OWE it to my commanding officer to question his orders, and to offer advice when it is pertinent. My commanding officer(s) RELIED on me to be thinking, watching, learning all the time.
Phhht.
If that idiot definition is what all the other people here think authoritarian people think and do, no wonder this has been a crap discussion in many ways.
Well, then, I can't help wondering why you fear authoritarians so much, when you don't even seem to understand what an authoritarian is. Have you been abused by an "authority figure", and you confuse an "authority figure" with authoritarians? Believe me, one who abuses his authority is no authoritarian. He might use words and phrases that SOUND like what an authoritarian would say, but he is a predator, plain and simple.
Maybe. Have you ever taken a psyche test to see what type of a leader you might be? According to the good people from Yale, I'm a coach/authoritarian. But, before you judge an authoritarian, you really should understand who and what he is. You'll find no better a defender of your liberties.
Of course, precious few people ever study leadership, so they have absolutely no idea what it is, or how it works, let alone what type of leader they might be. Maybe you'd like to try defining leadership, without wandering off to Google to learn what Yale may have had to say on the subject?
Ahhhh - I see. You stepped into the discussion after it was well on it's way. You inserted a comment to the effect that nudity isn't uncommon, and I responded that it is NOT common. But, if you'll just read further ^ the page, you'll find that I had ALREADY NOTED that nudity is accepted in some cultures.
Despite your more recent posts - can you claim that nudity is actually common in multiple cultures? Complete nudity. I don't think so. You mentioned Chinese workers, out in the field. Do they dress when they return to the village or town? You mentioned Japanese body paint. Well - you might argue that that is nudity - but the body IS covered with something. Complete nudity, in mixed company. Where is it common? Where is it the societal norm, rather than the oddity, like our nude beaches?
Is whitelisting even necessary? I'm no networking guru, but I can permit or deny internet access, in either direction, on any port(s) or protocol(s), for any machine on my network. Give me one of those silly printers. I'll wrap that bad boy up, snug as a bug in a rug. And, Wireshark will quickly find out if I missed anything, like a "phone home" feature.
You really don't pay much attention to the posts, do you? Or, even to the argument. I've ALREADY noted that some cultures permit women to go topless. Look way up ^ somewhere, in my early posts. Phht. You think you're winning an argument, when you can't even keep track of the argument?
I like it. Old Murdoch will have to shit or get off the pot, then justify his actions to investors.
Put up a paywall, or don't put up a paywall. Personally, I don't like Murdoch's kind of "news", and I don't read it for free - I sure as hell won't pay to read it.
As has already been mentioned, the real "news" is being reported via the internet in many different ways already. If some old rich fools can't figure out how to make money off of what they have always done, and can't figure out a new way of doing it, then we are not obligated to KEEP THEM RICH!!
When they get hungry, they can join the illegal aliens in ditch digging for their food.
Oh, boo hoo, some prick born with a silver spoon up his ass might actually do some WORK? Oh, what is this world coming to?
Slashdot Mirror
Damned shame that a veteran who has a clue feels the need to post as AC in a discussion like this, on /.
How is it that liberals seem to dominate a tech board? Did most of you graduate from Berkeley, or some such?
Whatever - I'll post my opinions however unpopular, under my own name, and let karma take care of itself. ;^)
I haven't exactly "justified" the killings, now have I? I've already stated that mistakes happen. The "fog of war". Innocent people die in war - and I cited that years ago as a reason NOT TO GO TO WAR.
If you read carefully, you'll see that I've found no reason to accuse any of the troopers involved with a crime. But, there WAS a tragic mistake made. Innocent people did die.
You confuse that with "cold blooded murder"??? You are obviously unqualified to ever serve on a jury. If summoned for jury duty, be sure to tell the prosecuting attorney that you don't understand the difference between murder and homicide.
"but if it can be automated, why wasn't it before now?"
Two words. "cost effectiveness"
In the United States, investing in a fleet of robots can be cheaper than supporting a hundred workers. In China, you can employ an ARMY of workers, for the investment required for a single robot.
This is the reason so many corporations are moving to China - not to help the Chinese who need jobs, but to make as much profit as possible, for as little investment as possible.
No, you don't - but it helps when you know what you're talking about.
If you have never stood at the wrong end of a gun, it's near impossible to imagine being there for days, weeks, or even months.
Personally, I've only spent several hours of my life standing at the wrong ends of lethal weapons. I don't consider myself qualified to judge the actions taken by front line soldiers, day in and day out. But, at least I have a few clues about what they are going through.
I presume that you are a combat veteran . . . .
Obviously, if you saw the video, your vision is so bad that you could never get into the military if you wanted to. There were most definitely AK-47's among the people who were shot up. How many? Sorry, I never got a reliable count - more than 4, probably less than 10. As for the camera, I couldn't tell what it was in the video. It resembles a weapon. It resembles a weapon enough that I may very well have made the call that got the cameraman killed.
It is also obvious that you have not read the headings and the commentary that are associated with the video. The Apache was CALLED to the area, BECAUSE ground troops took fire. They didn't just happen along - their buddies were shot at, they were called to find the bad guys, and they found armed men, right where they EXPECTED to find hostile troops.
If you were a soldier, you might understand that you ALWAYS shoot when there is a misunderstanding.
And, your translation is probably on target. You don't win hearts and minds in an occupied territory. A nation that is only ~200 years old, is certainly not going to do much "nation building" in a region whose history goes back ~5000 years. We've shot ourselves in the foot on this one. No matter when, or how, we finally pull our last troops out of Iraq, within two decades (at the outside) Iraq will probably have a theocracy in place, AND be aligned with Iran. (Keep in mind that the US toppled a perfectly legitimate democratic government in Iran - Iraq will identify with them once they tire of our puppets!)
But, again, we are discussing two different things here, one being the politics of the war, and two being the actions of the troops. Based on what I can see in the video, I can probably justify some Extra Military Duty for some of the troops, to be used for an ass chewing for getting it wrong, and for training, and review of the rules of engagement. I certainly don't see anyone doing anything "WRONG", in regards to the rules of war.
You're commenting on the politician who sent the troops there, or the troops? There is a difference. I have no use at all for George Dubya Bush and his cronies. I thought the reasons given for invading Iraq were bullshit - and I hate the Bush administration for giving people like you ammunition to use against the military. But, if you're honest, you'll admit that the troops and the politicians are easily distinguishable. The politicians, to a man, are cowards hiding behind the guns held by the troops.
I respect the troops, for doing the dirty jobs they are sent out to do.
I have no respect for the politicians who can't figure out when and where the troops should be used.
Well - if you're an ignoramus, you might say so. I have more medals for Humanitarian Services than all other awards combined. We HELP people at least as much as we hurt people.
I dunno - before I make up my mind, I want to hear them play this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mwmuiq4oMYc
(and I think that baby doll in black is pretty hot - wish I was about 35 years younger!)
You're welcome to use the insult. Just for info, a "push-button" in the Navy is any technician who got to sit around in a nice cozy classroom for a couple years, then sewed a Petty Officer's insignia on, just for graduating. Not a terrible insult, but somewhat derogatory when used by men who had to EARN their ratings the hard way. A "shitbird" in any branch is the worthless little turd who never manages to do anything right, and is consistently more trouble than he is worth. Shitbirds are more often discharged with a "convenience of the government" reason, than any other type of discharge.
If Microsoft wants to make an addon, update, toolbar, or any other damned thing for Firefox, they should submit it through proper channels. If it's alright for them to make updates to Firefox, then it's equally alright for Jumpin' Jack Haxor Flash to start distributing updates for Windows.
Uhhhh - I didn't see the same video you saw. I saw an Apache firing on a group of armed men, located in an area from which our ground troops took fire.
I'm not looking to get into a pissing contest, since I like most of your posts here - but for those who haven't SEEN the video, there are two sides to the story. Whichever side you take on the story, you most definitely need to remember that old "fog of war" thing. Mistakes are made, in every war, and the video in question documents one of them.
Point of fact: there were weapons among the men on the ground who were killed. The camera that the reporter was carrying was mistaken for a rocket launcher. The reporter's fate was sealed when he aimed that thing in the direction of our troops on the ground. The men in the Apache believed that he was preparing to fire on American troops.
As for Manning - I have just about made up my mind that he is nothing but a push-button shitbird, and he should have been run out of the military a lot quicker. As much as I support Wikileaks, I simply cannot see that Manning had any good reason for leaking that particular video. All he cared about was damaging the military, out of spite.
I've thought of clicking lots of things - but your NAME?!? Sounds kinky. Hell, I'll try (almost) anything once!
Even if you're right - tweeting will always be gay.
Yeah - it's going to cost to train on Win7 - then Win8 - than again on Win9 (or whatever other half-assed renaming scheme Microsoft decides to use next).
Why not invest the same money as you're going to spend on Win7 for *nix training, once, and be done with it? Take the licensing, training, and IT costs associated with upgrading to Win7, and they certainly exceed the costs of migrating to *nix. And, you'll have the same costs to look forward to again in 3 years, or 5 years, until hell freezes over. With *nix, there are not licensing fees, the support costs will decrease over time as your users become more proficient, and the training fees are pretty much a one time thing.
It just makes no sense to me, to pay the costs for Windows upgrades. No cents, either!
I believe that if you refuse to identify yourself to a cop, he can, and almost certainly will, take you to the police station, where he will identify you by fingerprints if necessary. Ask a cop. It depends on the seriousness of the situation, of course, but if the cop bothered himself to ask your name, he has some kind of reason. Otherwise, he would be at the donut shop, right?
Harmony? Isn't that a planet? Somewhere in the same sector as Tranquility?
Sorry - there is a lot more to it than that. Perhaps you would like to read up on leadership, and get some kind of an idea what authority is all about? http://www.scribd.com/doc/24200794/Leadership-Applied-Theory
I'm not *real happy* with that pub, as it is quite different than what I was taught - but it uses many of the same concepts, without going into depth. There is related reading on the site - you might find something better than this particular pub.
No government, no organization, can be run without authority. Authoritarism as defined in your dictionary citation is misleading, and doesn't even begin to define what authority is, or what it derives from in a democratic society.
Blind obedience? Good grief. The most authoritarian organizations in the United States are the branches of the military. I was taught that blind obedience is contrary to good order and discipline - I OWE it to my commanding officer to question his orders, and to offer advice when it is pertinent. My commanding officer(s) RELIED on me to be thinking, watching, learning all the time.
Phhht.
If that idiot definition is what all the other people here think authoritarian people think and do, no wonder this has been a crap discussion in many ways.
Well, then, I can't help wondering why you fear authoritarians so much, when you don't even seem to understand what an authoritarian is. Have you been abused by an "authority figure", and you confuse an "authority figure" with authoritarians? Believe me, one who abuses his authority is no authoritarian. He might use words and phrases that SOUND like what an authoritarian would say, but he is a predator, plain and simple.
Maybe. Have you ever taken a psyche test to see what type of a leader you might be? According to the good people from Yale, I'm a coach/authoritarian. But, before you judge an authoritarian, you really should understand who and what he is. You'll find no better a defender of your liberties.
Of course, precious few people ever study leadership, so they have absolutely no idea what it is, or how it works, let alone what type of leader they might be. Maybe you'd like to try defining leadership, without wandering off to Google to learn what Yale may have had to say on the subject?
Ahhhh - I see. You stepped into the discussion after it was well on it's way. You inserted a comment to the effect that nudity isn't uncommon, and I responded that it is NOT common. But, if you'll just read further ^ the page, you'll find that I had ALREADY NOTED that nudity is accepted in some cultures.
Despite your more recent posts - can you claim that nudity is actually common in multiple cultures? Complete nudity. I don't think so. You mentioned Chinese workers, out in the field. Do they dress when they return to the village or town? You mentioned Japanese body paint. Well - you might argue that that is nudity - but the body IS covered with something. Complete nudity, in mixed company. Where is it common? Where is it the societal norm, rather than the oddity, like our nude beaches?
I don't think you find such citations, really.
Is whitelisting even necessary? I'm no networking guru, but I can permit or deny internet access, in either direction, on any port(s) or protocol(s), for any machine on my network. Give me one of those silly printers. I'll wrap that bad boy up, snug as a bug in a rug. And, Wireshark will quickly find out if I missed anything, like a "phone home" feature.
You really don't pay much attention to the posts, do you? Or, even to the argument. I've ALREADY noted that some cultures permit women to go topless. Look way up ^ somewhere, in my early posts. Phht. You think you're winning an argument, when you can't even keep track of the argument?
Just give up, alright?
I like it. Old Murdoch will have to shit or get off the pot, then justify his actions to investors.
Put up a paywall, or don't put up a paywall. Personally, I don't like Murdoch's kind of "news", and I don't read it for free - I sure as hell won't pay to read it.
As has already been mentioned, the real "news" is being reported via the internet in many different ways already. If some old rich fools can't figure out how to make money off of what they have always done, and can't figure out a new way of doing it, then we are not obligated to KEEP THEM RICH!!
When they get hungry, they can join the illegal aliens in ditch digging for their food.
Oh, boo hoo, some prick born with a silver spoon up his ass might actually do some WORK? Oh, what is this world coming to?