But, you are implying that the corporation can't commit a crime. Then, you insist that this make-believe entity, the corporation, is exempt from prosecution.
I insist that each individual may be judged, AND that the collective entity, the corporation itself, may also be judged. We see this happen when judges impose fines on corporations - no individual within the corporation pays the fine, but the corporation does.
If the corporation can be fined, then by extension, it can be found guilty of criminal acts, and appropriately punished. No, you can't put a corporation in prison, but you CAN deprive it of it's resources, disband it, or put it under special restrictions.
I disagree. When crimes are committed routinely, in the course of business, then that business may be judged as a criminal enterprise. Assets may be seized, and the individuals prosecuted, individually and collectively. Incorporation offers a lot of protection, but incorporation should offer no protections for criminal acts. None.
Conspiracy stands out as number one. Yes, of course, each individual involved in the conspiracy is also guilty of conspiring to commit that crime, but the Mafia EXISTS to make those conspiracies possible.
Racketeering, unfair business practices, monopoly - all of these were created especially for businesses.
While half of America pretends that businesses have some "right to speech" with Citizen's United, it is impossible to pretend that corporations cannot be criminal. Some of them are criminal in their very nature.
How many banks were discovered to be laundering money, after the Wall Street meltdown? Criminals, every one of them. Criminal enterprises can't be held exempt from the law, just because they were incorporated somewhere.
How do you know those are cops in those images? Yellow armbands? Hell, I can have those made up by the thousands. I can just as easily conclude that those yellow arm bands were passed out by the agitators, for the purpose of making the cops look bad.
" there's only so many places to bury people over the course of a few hundred years. "
Do you think that you've ever been anyplace where NO ONE has ever died? Mankind has a 5000 year recorded history, and tens of thousands of years of history that weren't recorded - much if at all. Anyplace you have ever walked, you were probably in sight of a place where someone died, at some point in time. You almost certainly walk on hallowed ground, no matter where you live.
Of course, I don't worry about it much. A couple hundred years after I die, someone will probably be plowing the ground that I lay under. Cemeteries aren't exactly forever, you know.
Anonymously judged. Interesting concept. Don't publish, and you stay anonymous? We should have anonymous elections too. The things that spill out of open minds are amazing.
Science fiction was dealt a mortal blow when weenies started writing space opera. Half the little homos in the world judge "science fiction" by the endless Starwars and Battlestar sequels. That is NOT science fiction.
Your persistence is noted - along with your ignorance. We the people did set those boundaries, and as I stated, Obama is pushing the limits. It is time for congress to find it's collective balls, and defund the president's actions, among other things. This administration is using my tax money, as well as yours, to entice illegal aliens to invade this nation. And, this president is attempting to tell you and me who we can give our money to. He is wrong, wrong, wrong. And, as evidenced by the article under discussion, a lot of Americans are telling Obama to go fuck himself.
I am a free man. I will send my money where I wish, and anyone who attempts to prevent me doing so can go fuck themselves.
No, your assertion does not stand. The PEOPLE establish the boundaries of EO's. And, I, one of the PEOPLE assert that Obama is usurping the authority of congress with his EO's. Congress represents the will of the people. The executive branch's duty is to carry out the will of the people.
WTF did we revolt against a king, if we are just going to allow a president to set himself up as king?
I don't get your point. I can say "Fuck you" to you as well, and you continue to exist. You know, and I know, that I am expressing my contempt for your opinion, right? You don't die because I've expressed my opinion.
Likewise, I am saying, "Fuck the executive order". Given an opportunity to defy the order, I will do so. Given the opportunity to express my contempt for the author of the order to his face, I would do so. The bastard is trivializing the office he holds, by giving trivial orders, aimed at hurting his foes, both real and imagined.
And, once again, I'll state the obvious. An American citizen may spend his money as he sees fit. If I wish to send six month's wages to Snowden, to aid in his legal defense, than I will do so. I might even send the president an email telling him of the fact, after the fact.
Obama can blow this order out his ass. It is just so much hot air anyway.
Yes, it is for me to determine what is proper in government. Did you not have any high school civics classes, or even social studies? The people are the ultimate authority in this nation. Not only has government forgotten that, but the people have forgotten as well.
Everything that the government does is my business, how it does it, when it does it, and why it does it. That is precisely why so many of us are pissed off at NSA spying on the people. We, the people, have every right to spy on the NSA, the NSA has no right, no authority, no permission to spy on we the people.
Not one person, branch, agency, or officer of the United States government is superior to we, the people.
And, I say again - FUCK the executive order. The dumb fucker just makes me want to contribute to Snowden. No arrogant cocksucker in this world can dictate when, where, or how I spend my money.
Citing evidence? ROFLMAO - you offer no citations to demonstrate that no illegal EO can possibly exist. What a nutcase.
Well said. I used the term "liberal" as it is most commonly used in American politics today. That is, voting democrat and/or supporting democrat goals is considered to be "liberal".
But you are perfectly right. I have liberal leanings, although I despise the "liberal" party.
In my own small way, I stand up. Not frequently, but I stand up. I questioned my state representatives about unconstitutional roadblocks in my area. One representative, a guy, couldn't be bothered to reply to my inquiry. The OTHER rep, a lady, made her own inquiries, directly to the police chiefs and the court houses in the area. I haven't seen a roadblock (by whatever name they might choose to use) since then.
Funny how the cops can come up with new names every six months, to disguise the fact that a road block is a road block. "Sobriety checkpoint". "Safety checkpoint". "Thinking of the children" checkpoint. If they just give it a name that indicates that they are providing a SERVICE, that makes it alright for them to stop and arrest people randomly, for infractions ranging from parole violations, to suspended licenses, to expired tags, to driving while black. It's all a revenue generating scheme, no matter how you look at it.
The system is broken, but sometimes, it works in spite of itself.
Fuck the executive order. This president has pushed the boundaries with his executive orders. He usurps the authority of congress with many of them, including his immigration/amnesty orders.
The President of the United States has ZERO authority to tell people how they can spend their money.
This is the same mouthy prick who told stay at home moms that he had no use for them. He doesn't WANT mothers caring for their children, or for their aging parents/grandparents. He wants them in the work force, so that they are paying SOMEONE ELSE to care for those children.
I kinda voted for Obama, in that I voted against Romney. But, Obama is as big a prick as any president has been. Liberal love him, but that doesn't make him a good president.
I must be "special" or "exceptional" or something like that. I have a FB account, which I log into on a rare occasion. Check up on one of the kids - check my supervisor's page when inclement weather threatens - just the odd thing now and then.
And, I don't see advertisements on FB. I've little idea what FB scripts might be offering, but I see none of it. As for posts - I don't. Once I began to figure out just how much FB capitalizes your every post, I simply stopped. Screw them.
Do you ride motorcycles? I stake my life on my own observations, situational awareness, and whatever passes for a "mathematical model" inside my head. Do you work on electrical systems? I stake my life on training, experience, and observed probabilities - like, when I put my lockout tag on a box, it is highly probable that there is no electricity going through the circuits that I'll be touching.
The problem with computer models, I'm expected to put my faith in far to many OTHER PEOPLE'S perceptions, judgements, experience, etc.
Ever played that telephone game? Get a half dozen (or more) people sitting in a circle (roughly). Have the first person to read a written message, then he whispers that message to the person on his right. Repeat, to the end of the circle. Last person speaks that message aloud - and it almost never resembles the written message.
Now, tell me something. How many people, how many separate communications are involved in most computer models? Three butt-tons, or more? That's a lot of people.
If a model can be put to the test in real life for a hundred years or so, and it NEVER FAILS - then I might be willing to trust that model with my life.
Oh - forget it. I'm not going to last until the end of the test.
Yes, you are basically correct. But, you miss the boat on one important aspect here. How do the programmers reduce complex problems to math? In the case of climate models, how do the programmers know what weather was like 500 years ago? They make assumptions, and try to turn that into mathematical expressions.
As I said, GIGO. No model can ever be any more accurate than the data pumped into it.
"I expect you're happy with computer modelling for many things,"
Actually, you're off target. Computer modeling amounts to little more than "educated speculation". Or, "educated guess". That is true of all models. Remember GIGO? Garbage in, garbage out.
As time passes, as programmers learn more, and as computers get better, and as real world experience proves and/or disproves the models, models DO get better. But, don't ever, ever, EVER expect me to stake my life on what a model says.
The problem with climate change modeling, is that far to many buffoons use the models as "proof" that the world is warming.
Hey, I had "proof" that the world was warming when I was in third grade, in 1963. Mrs. Stevenson explained that we are in an interglacial period. I KNEW that the year 2000 would be warmer than the year 1963, all the way back then!
But, all of our sophisticated idiots today want to blame every last erg of increasing energy on this planet on human intervention. DUHHHH!!
You can simulate anything you like on a computer. Models are wonderful. But, at some point, intelligent people have to check to see if the model actually works in real life.
Oh, wait - you're not one of those global warming priests are you?
Why am I thinking, "It's April Second - is the silliness over yet?" Geez Louise - the first of the sillies that I read yesterday hooked me. Really, I was disbelieving and believing at the same time. I had to read all the way through the article, then look at the next headline before I realized - "IT'S ALL BOGUS!!"
So, now, today, we're shooting asteroids?
How 'bout we just build a time machine, and go back to the arcades of 1980. We can shoot asteroids all day long.
Let me know how that works out for you. So far, history doesn't have many examples of it working. Perhaps there are some good examples in pre-history, or maybe some of the lost cultures, but I wouldn't count on it. Few men really want to be free - they can't handle the responsibility, for starters. Men and women demand good leaders, they are lost without leadership. And - of course - evil bastards covet those leadership positions. Even if you DO find a bunch of good people to lead, that will only last for a couple generations, at best. History is filled with accounts of benevolent monarchs/dictators/emperors/whatever. The ruler finally gets old and dies, his worthless son takes over, and everything goes to hell.
And, that is exactly what our own founding fathers were trying to avoid, here in the US.
Slashdot Mirror
But, you are implying that the corporation can't commit a crime. Then, you insist that this make-believe entity, the corporation, is exempt from prosecution.
I insist that each individual may be judged, AND that the collective entity, the corporation itself, may also be judged. We see this happen when judges impose fines on corporations - no individual within the corporation pays the fine, but the corporation does.
If the corporation can be fined, then by extension, it can be found guilty of criminal acts, and appropriately punished. No, you can't put a corporation in prison, but you CAN deprive it of it's resources, disband it, or put it under special restrictions.
I disagree. When crimes are committed routinely, in the course of business, then that business may be judged as a criminal enterprise. Assets may be seized, and the individuals prosecuted, individually and collectively. Incorporation offers a lot of protection, but incorporation should offer no protections for criminal acts. None.
Conspiracy stands out as number one. Yes, of course, each individual involved in the conspiracy is also guilty of conspiring to commit that crime, but the Mafia EXISTS to make those conspiracies possible.
Racketeering, unfair business practices, monopoly - all of these were created especially for businesses.
While half of America pretends that businesses have some "right to speech" with Citizen's United, it is impossible to pretend that corporations cannot be criminal. Some of them are criminal in their very nature.
How many banks were discovered to be laundering money, after the Wall Street meltdown? Criminals, every one of them. Criminal enterprises can't be held exempt from the law, just because they were incorporated somewhere.
How do you know those are cops in those images? Yellow armbands? Hell, I can have those made up by the thousands. I can just as easily conclude that those yellow arm bands were passed out by the agitators, for the purpose of making the cops look bad.
"corporations can't commit crimes"
Then you would defend the Mafia from criminal charges, based on that rationale? How terribly naive.
" there's only so many places to bury people over the course of a few hundred years. "
Do you think that you've ever been anyplace where NO ONE has ever died? Mankind has a 5000 year recorded history, and tens of thousands of years of history that weren't recorded - much if at all. Anyplace you have ever walked, you were probably in sight of a place where someone died, at some point in time. You almost certainly walk on hallowed ground, no matter where you live.
Of course, I don't worry about it much. A couple hundred years after I die, someone will probably be plowing the ground that I lay under. Cemeteries aren't exactly forever, you know.
Anonymously judged. Interesting concept. Don't publish, and you stay anonymous? We should have anonymous elections too. The things that spill out of open minds are amazing.
Science fiction was dealt a mortal blow when weenies started writing space opera. Half the little homos in the world judge "science fiction" by the endless Starwars and Battlestar sequels. That is NOT science fiction.
Your persistence is noted - along with your ignorance. We the people did set those boundaries, and as I stated, Obama is pushing the limits. It is time for congress to find it's collective balls, and defund the president's actions, among other things. This administration is using my tax money, as well as yours, to entice illegal aliens to invade this nation. And, this president is attempting to tell you and me who we can give our money to. He is wrong, wrong, wrong. And, as evidenced by the article under discussion, a lot of Americans are telling Obama to go fuck himself.
I am a free man. I will send my money where I wish, and anyone who attempts to prevent me doing so can go fuck themselves.
No, your assertion does not stand. The PEOPLE establish the boundaries of EO's. And, I, one of the PEOPLE assert that Obama is usurping the authority of congress with his EO's. Congress represents the will of the people. The executive branch's duty is to carry out the will of the people.
WTF did we revolt against a king, if we are just going to allow a president to set himself up as king?
I don't get your point. I can say "Fuck you" to you as well, and you continue to exist. You know, and I know, that I am expressing my contempt for your opinion, right? You don't die because I've expressed my opinion.
Likewise, I am saying, "Fuck the executive order". Given an opportunity to defy the order, I will do so. Given the opportunity to express my contempt for the author of the order to his face, I would do so. The bastard is trivializing the office he holds, by giving trivial orders, aimed at hurting his foes, both real and imagined.
And, once again, I'll state the obvious. An American citizen may spend his money as he sees fit. If I wish to send six month's wages to Snowden, to aid in his legal defense, than I will do so. I might even send the president an email telling him of the fact, after the fact.
Obama can blow this order out his ass. It is just so much hot air anyway.
Of the people, for the people, and by the people.
Yes, it is for me to determine what is proper in government. Did you not have any high school civics classes, or even social studies? The people are the ultimate authority in this nation. Not only has government forgotten that, but the people have forgotten as well.
Everything that the government does is my business, how it does it, when it does it, and why it does it. That is precisely why so many of us are pissed off at NSA spying on the people. We, the people, have every right to spy on the NSA, the NSA has no right, no authority, no permission to spy on we the people.
Not one person, branch, agency, or officer of the United States government is superior to we, the people.
And, I say again - FUCK the executive order. The dumb fucker just makes me want to contribute to Snowden. No arrogant cocksucker in this world can dictate when, where, or how I spend my money.
Citing evidence? ROFLMAO - you offer no citations to demonstrate that no illegal EO can possibly exist. What a nutcase.
Well said. I used the term "liberal" as it is most commonly used in American politics today. That is, voting democrat and/or supporting democrat goals is considered to be "liberal".
But you are perfectly right. I have liberal leanings, although I despise the "liberal" party.
In my own small way, I stand up. Not frequently, but I stand up. I questioned my state representatives about unconstitutional roadblocks in my area. One representative, a guy, couldn't be bothered to reply to my inquiry. The OTHER rep, a lady, made her own inquiries, directly to the police chiefs and the court houses in the area. I haven't seen a roadblock (by whatever name they might choose to use) since then.
Funny how the cops can come up with new names every six months, to disguise the fact that a road block is a road block. "Sobriety checkpoint". "Safety checkpoint". "Thinking of the children" checkpoint. If they just give it a name that indicates that they are providing a SERVICE, that makes it alright for them to stop and arrest people randomly, for infractions ranging from parole violations, to suspended licenses, to expired tags, to driving while black. It's all a revenue generating scheme, no matter how you look at it.
The system is broken, but sometimes, it works in spite of itself.
I'll bet it's on zdnet.
http://www.zdnet.com/article/s...
Agreed. I'm not real sure that I have any heroes, but yeah, Ed is probably as good as they get. Heh - I'm amused by the AC posts to your comment . . .
Fuck the executive order. This president has pushed the boundaries with his executive orders. He usurps the authority of congress with many of them, including his immigration/amnesty orders.
The President of the United States has ZERO authority to tell people how they can spend their money.
This is the same mouthy prick who told stay at home moms that he had no use for them. He doesn't WANT mothers caring for their children, or for their aging parents/grandparents. He wants them in the work force, so that they are paying SOMEONE ELSE to care for those children.
I kinda voted for Obama, in that I voted against Romney. But, Obama is as big a prick as any president has been. Liberal love him, but that doesn't make him a good president.
I must be "special" or "exceptional" or something like that. I have a FB account, which I log into on a rare occasion. Check up on one of the kids - check my supervisor's page when inclement weather threatens - just the odd thing now and then.
And, I don't see advertisements on FB. I've little idea what FB scripts might be offering, but I see none of it. As for posts - I don't. Once I began to figure out just how much FB capitalizes your every post, I simply stopped. Screw them.
5 digits? You got SIX!! Maybe you're a mutant? Let me count your fingers.
Do you ride motorcycles? I stake my life on my own observations, situational awareness, and whatever passes for a "mathematical model" inside my head. Do you work on electrical systems? I stake my life on training, experience, and observed probabilities - like, when I put my lockout tag on a box, it is highly probable that there is no electricity going through the circuits that I'll be touching.
The problem with computer models, I'm expected to put my faith in far to many OTHER PEOPLE'S perceptions, judgements, experience, etc.
Ever played that telephone game? Get a half dozen (or more) people sitting in a circle (roughly). Have the first person to read a written message, then he whispers that message to the person on his right. Repeat, to the end of the circle. Last person speaks that message aloud - and it almost never resembles the written message.
Now, tell me something. How many people, how many separate communications are involved in most computer models? Three butt-tons, or more? That's a lot of people.
If a model can be put to the test in real life for a hundred years or so, and it NEVER FAILS - then I might be willing to trust that model with my life.
Oh - forget it. I'm not going to last until the end of the test.
Yes, you are basically correct. But, you miss the boat on one important aspect here. How do the programmers reduce complex problems to math? In the case of climate models, how do the programmers know what weather was like 500 years ago? They make assumptions, and try to turn that into mathematical expressions.
As I said, GIGO. No model can ever be any more accurate than the data pumped into it.
"I expect you're happy with computer modelling for many things,"
Actually, you're off target. Computer modeling amounts to little more than "educated speculation". Or, "educated guess". That is true of all models. Remember GIGO? Garbage in, garbage out.
As time passes, as programmers learn more, and as computers get better, and as real world experience proves and/or disproves the models, models DO get better. But, don't ever, ever, EVER expect me to stake my life on what a model says.
The problem with climate change modeling, is that far to many buffoons use the models as "proof" that the world is warming.
Hey, I had "proof" that the world was warming when I was in third grade, in 1963. Mrs. Stevenson explained that we are in an interglacial period. I KNEW that the year 2000 would be warmer than the year 1963, all the way back then!
But, all of our sophisticated idiots today want to blame every last erg of increasing energy on this planet on human intervention. DUHHHH!!
You can simulate anything you like on a computer. Models are wonderful. But, at some point, intelligent people have to check to see if the model actually works in real life.
Oh, wait - you're not one of those global warming priests are you?
Why am I thinking, "It's April Second - is the silliness over yet?" Geez Louise - the first of the sillies that I read yesterday hooked me. Really, I was disbelieving and believing at the same time. I had to read all the way through the article, then look at the next headline before I realized - "IT'S ALL BOGUS!!"
So, now, today, we're shooting asteroids?
How 'bout we just build a time machine, and go back to the arcades of 1980. We can shoot asteroids all day long.
"well endowed black gentlemen"
Your insecurity is showing.
Let me know how that works out for you. So far, history doesn't have many examples of it working. Perhaps there are some good examples in pre-history, or maybe some of the lost cultures, but I wouldn't count on it. Few men really want to be free - they can't handle the responsibility, for starters. Men and women demand good leaders, they are lost without leadership. And - of course - evil bastards covet those leadership positions. Even if you DO find a bunch of good people to lead, that will only last for a couple generations, at best. History is filled with accounts of benevolent monarchs/dictators/emperors/whatever. The ruler finally gets old and dies, his worthless son takes over, and everything goes to hell.
And, that is exactly what our own founding fathers were trying to avoid, here in the US.