Why is AC flamebait? A lot of MS employees had spare time today, and some of them had mod points? If anyone bothers to actually read the stories surrounding the case, AC's account is quite accurate.
Embrace, extend, extinguish did in fact fail this time. The little guy in this case does not qualify as our typical patent troll.
I'm not googling around for citations, but, George Washington Carver is credited with inventing plastic. (He was a black man in America, so he is generally forgotten - subject for another discussion.) The man worked with peanuts, IIRC, and maybe some corn, maybe some cotton. Oil is the primary ingredient for plastic, I guess it doesn't much matter whether it has laid underground for millenia or not. We could probably produce all the plastic that is essential for our modern civilization from renewable sources, but it would be expensive. As long as fossil fuels pumped out of the ground are cheaper than similar products from renewable sources, we will pump that oil.
If that doesn't actually answer your question, it's enough info to start googling with.;^)
Yeah, and I'm pissed that I can't get Clippy working on Ubuntu!! The little dog in the search box too!! What, when you start to go geeky you can't have pets anymore? It's just WRONG, I tell you!! I'm going to send some hate mail to Canonical, and find out what the deal is. This just pisses me off!!
sarcasm off
Seriously - all those user agents and stuff should have been a tipoff. A corporation that offers cartoonish characters as part of a "serious" operating system can't be trusted with security.
And you seem to be looking at only a small part of the picture. Linux Users would almost certainly benefit if MS were out of the office suite business. But, as you point out, that IS only a small part of the picture.
Try expanding your mind, and look at EVERYONE.
With MS out of the way, not only does open source have a level playing field, but so do any number of proprietary office suite developers. Case in point: the people who brought this suit, in TFA.
Still, you would have a good point if you said that developers in general are only a small part of the picture. So, looking at the really BIG picture - if everyone in the world were to adopt Open Office as "the standard", and everyone in the world were to adopt OOo within the next 12 months, what would be the total expenditure for software?
It would be something close to $0.00.
SUPPORT might be costly for enterprise - but they are already spending millions for support of MS Office products.
That "TCO" figure that MS likes to throw around is totally bogus. Training is a one time thing. Suppose you spend a couple hundred bucks per employee to teach them how to use OOo. One time expense, as opposed to spending a couple hundred bucks EVERY TIME MS decides to "upgrade" their software, plus the support costs.
Don't like open source, just on general principle? Fine. Buy your proprietary software and support from the people who actually develop it - not from MS who just rips whatever they want from the little people. It will be cheaper in the long run, I'm certain.
As an aside - I get a kick out of MS running all those commercials on television. They HAVE the monopoly already, but they obviously feel so threatened they need to convince us that they are the best. Of course, "best" is a matter of opinion, and many educated opinions say they are NOT the best.:^)
As things stand, at this moment in time, MS Office is a convenience, because it does everything that people have been conditioned to expect of an office suite. As AC says, there are alternatives. And, removing the monopoly will motivate others to come up with solutions to the problems that MS created.
The most painless route for upgrading to Linux HAS TO BE virtual machines. VM's are really hyped up for servers, for research, and maybe for enterprise use. But, they are GREAT for home use, too. I can't break away from Windows completely, so I have WinXP in a VM, as well as Win7. The wife has the same setup on her machine, and she almost never goes into Windows anymore.
With just a few more drivers, and an office suite that runs all of the macros in MS Office, I could completely break away from Windows, myself.
4) that an injunction does not harm the public interest
One does NOT NEED to be an opensource fanboi to make a decent argument that it would be in the public interest to strip MS of Office completely. There is a long list of word processors that have been exterminated, thanks to MS. Without a megalopoly pushing their version of an office suite, not only would Open Office have a shot at taking the lead, but some of the older competition MIGHT have a chance of making a comeback. Not to mention, a new startup or six might get into the market.
Just think what COULD happen with a half dozen competitors in the field. Standards, maybe? Plummeting prices?
No, you don't need to be an open source fanboi, or even a MS basher to see that it could be good for all of us if MS got out of the office arena.
I can't seem to find a conversion chart for that. Could you put that into US tons? Or, long tons? Hell, metric tons would work. Just give us something to go by, alright?
I think we all agree that the laws are pretty borked. Even Microsoft has said as much, from time to time. It would behoove Microsoft to actively lobby for sane laws, no? Of course, sane laws work against the most well intentioned people from time to time - but they don't enable deadbeats to rape and pillage established enterprises.
American ethnocentrism. What a concept, huh? People who have never been out of the country are perfectly willing to judge things of which they know nothing.
Let us remember, the Russian people, under Soviet leadership, faced us throughout the cold war for decades. AND, they competed respectably in space. Running them down is pure ignorance, IMHO.
I admire Ghandi - the man was brilliant. But, no, he didn't favor gun control. Given the opportunity, he would have put an army in the field to accomplish his goals. Mahatma Ghandi resorted to nonviolent means, because the tools necessary for military resistance were unavailable to him. In effect, he became a general who mastered "assymetrical warfare". The man understood Sun Tzu's teachings better than many recognized generals. Only after Ghandi had age, experience, and a measure of success behind him, might he have favored a prohibition of weapons among the masses. The younger man bemoaned the fact that his oppressors had all the guns, many times.
The commentary that accompanies the quote is typical of people who have enshrined Ghandi as something he was not. The commntor simply does not understand Ghandi, and only partially understands what Ghandi's aims were.
I invite you to read Ghandi's biography - especially that portion of his life spent in Africa. The man was most certainly not a pacifist by choice.
Comparing different nations, and ethnically different people is interesting. Try the link above. American cities are listed by crime rate. Washington, D.C. stands near the top of the list, as does Baltimore, MD, and several California cities. Browse them, and compare their murder rates to their gun control laws. The most restrictive cities in the nation are on that list. California is interesting, because they have gone so far as to take down billboards and advertisements that depict firearms, but they still manage to lead the nation in violent crime. Since all of these cities are US cities, it's fair to compare them.
Tokyo? I don't mean to sound ethnocentric, but they are very different than anyone outside of Asia. Like most Asians, they are taught from the cradle that honor is more important than anything else in life. In America, we are taught that rights are the important thing. You can't honestly compare their violent crime rates to ours.
Comparing European crime rates to US crime rates seems reasonable, as our culture is based on theirs. Same goes for Canada and Australia.
Unlike AC, you sign your name. Like AC, you attack the messanger, rather than the message. Did you read the links? Can you refute them? The answer is "NO", you can't refute them.
Your comments are rather revealing. Have you had dreams of murder and dismemberment all of your life? I can well understand why you don't want to see a little man with a weapon, or a woman. I've read about individuals who replace sexual stimulation with mucking around inside of a corpse. I guess that disfiguring a real man's genitals would be some sort of compensation for your own inadequacies.
"but experience in countries with gun control regulations shows that criminals have guns far less often."
You're right. The criminals in Nazi Germany had no guns, nor did the criminals in Soviet Russia. Well, not unless you count the criminals who were running the government.
And, this is precisely why so many people fear guns. They want to hide behind the AC tag, and use vulgarity - knowing they are safe. They also expect to be just as safe when they choose to run their mouth on the street. I'll bet my dollar against your penny, if a real man answers his little potty mouth, AC will pick up a rock, a club, a knife, or something because he's AC. When the real man shoots him dead, then that man is in the wrong for having a weapon. Go figure.
Go, coward, read. The facts are, when the populace is armed, violent crimes go down. When citizens are disarmed, crime goes up.
Since we have already established that you are a coward, allow me to ask a simple question: If/when you ever creep out of your Mama's basement, hoping to drag a female into your den, would you rather face women who are armed, and are able to resist? Or, would you rather face defenseless women? I don't give you much chance in either instance - but I am perfectly happy with armed women. Knowing that she can shoot you dead if you get out of line just helps to keep a guy honest.
And, why, exactly, can you not modify them? Any box I've ever touched had an option to "update firmware". Granted, I haven't touched them all, but I can't imagine one without the option. If your box is using open source, people can build their own firmware - look at all the WRT firmwares available, starting with Tomato, DDWRT, OpenWRT - and there may be more.
A bright individual might roll his own, or not.
Actually - it might be to the ISP's advantage to allow this sort of thing. Some people are going to brick their boxes while tampering with them. Warranty is void, of course, if the box has been tampered with. So, the ISP gets the opportunity to sell another 20 dollar (or Euro, kroner, or whatever they use up there) box for 50 dollars.
Inform people that they have options. I'm all for that.
On the other hand, I wonder if pursuing these sort of actions might not scare vendors away from open source?
Google engineer muttering to himself, "Hmmm, how did we get a crystalcole07 in here? I thought we had the worst bugs fixed in this code....... hmmmm..... there, that should fix it.... OK, next problem...."
I read that as "Google ____ Empire" Had to look again, to see "Google App Empire". Says to myself, "Self, WTF is wrong with you?" I got it right on the third read.
To many people posting about evil google, I guess. LMAO
There you go - I've done half of your homework for you. Read, draw conclusions, then come back and start making claims.
Meanwhile - I'll tell you a little story.
Walked into a McDonald's late one night, in New York City. NY, of course, has just about the most restrictive firearms laws in the nation. A young man fumbled in his jacket pocket for some change, and dropped a little bitty pistol on the floor across the room from me. The guy scared me - looked like some kind of a dopehead freak, real nervous, obviuosly not smart because he carried the pistol loose in a pocket, AND he dropped the damned thing. Yes, I was scared.
Walked into a cafe in the panhandle of Texas for breakfast some months later. Every redneck in the joint had a firearm. Maybe 8 guys had pistols strapped to their hips, and every single truck in the parking lot had a rifle or two in racks. I felt perfectly safe among these people. No fear, no unease, no tightening of the sphincter. Before anyone asks, NONE of these men had badges - they were all cattlemen and ranch hands.
"Please compare then murders in Japan (where honest citizens are not allowed to carry weapons) to those of Texas (where honest citizens are allowed to carry weapons)."
Please do. I'm all ears - I'm willing to learn.
Oh - wait - you were expecting ME to look up the figures? How might that help you to make your point, whatever the hell that is?
Slashdot Mirror
Why is AC flamebait? A lot of MS employees had spare time today, and some of them had mod points? If anyone bothers to actually read the stories surrounding the case, AC's account is quite accurate.
Embrace, extend, extinguish did in fact fail this time. The little guy in this case does not qualify as our typical patent troll.
I'm not googling around for citations, but, George Washington Carver is credited with inventing plastic. (He was a black man in America, so he is generally forgotten - subject for another discussion.) The man worked with peanuts, IIRC, and maybe some corn, maybe some cotton. Oil is the primary ingredient for plastic, I guess it doesn't much matter whether it has laid underground for millenia or not. We could probably produce all the plastic that is essential for our modern civilization from renewable sources, but it would be expensive. As long as fossil fuels pumped out of the ground are cheaper than similar products from renewable sources, we will pump that oil.
If that doesn't actually answer your question, it's enough info to start googling with. ;^)
HA! I tricked it:
Proxy not detected.
It doesn't know about Privoxy!!!! Ha ha ha ha!!!
Oh, wait.........
IP & Proxy Information:
IP Addr: xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx
Proxy not detected.
They figured out that I've been peddling smut on the intarwebz!!! The IRS will be here tomorrow!! What do I do now???
You may be old enough to remember Nancy Sinatra's song:
This Eula's meant for breaking,
and that's just what I'll do,
and one of these days this Eula's
gonna get broke all over you!
sarcasm on
Yeah, and I'm pissed that I can't get Clippy working on Ubuntu!! The little dog in the search box too!! What, when you start to go geeky you can't have pets anymore? It's just WRONG, I tell you!! I'm going to send some hate mail to Canonical, and find out what the deal is. This just pisses me off!!
sarcasm off
Seriously - all those user agents and stuff should have been a tipoff. A corporation that offers cartoonish characters as part of a "serious" operating system can't be trusted with security.
And you seem to be looking at only a small part of the picture. Linux Users would almost certainly benefit if MS were out of the office suite business. But, as you point out, that IS only a small part of the picture.
Try expanding your mind, and look at EVERYONE.
With MS out of the way, not only does open source have a level playing field, but so do any number of proprietary office suite developers. Case in point: the people who brought this suit, in TFA.
Still, you would have a good point if you said that developers in general are only a small part of the picture. So, looking at the really BIG picture - if everyone in the world were to adopt Open Office as "the standard", and everyone in the world were to adopt OOo within the next 12 months, what would be the total expenditure for software?
It would be something close to $0.00.
SUPPORT might be costly for enterprise - but they are already spending millions for support of MS Office products.
That "TCO" figure that MS likes to throw around is totally bogus. Training is a one time thing. Suppose you spend a couple hundred bucks per employee to teach them how to use OOo. One time expense, as opposed to spending a couple hundred bucks EVERY TIME MS decides to "upgrade" their software, plus the support costs.
Don't like open source, just on general principle? Fine. Buy your proprietary software and support from the people who actually develop it - not from MS who just rips whatever they want from the little people. It will be cheaper in the long run, I'm certain.
As an aside - I get a kick out of MS running all those commercials on television. They HAVE the monopoly already, but they obviously feel so threatened they need to convince us that they are the best. Of course, "best" is a matter of opinion, and many educated opinions say they are NOT the best. :^)
"like supporting the government ordering the power company to"
At least we seem to agree that the government has authority over a government subsidized monopoly. ;-)
public interest != convenience
As things stand, at this moment in time, MS Office is a convenience, because it does everything that people have been conditioned to expect of an office suite. As AC says, there are alternatives. And, removing the monopoly will motivate others to come up with solutions to the problems that MS created.
Real public interest ~= innovation
The most painless route for upgrading to Linux HAS TO BE virtual machines. VM's are really hyped up for servers, for research, and maybe for enterprise use. But, they are GREAT for home use, too. I can't break away from Windows completely, so I have WinXP in a VM, as well as Win7. The wife has the same setup on her machine, and she almost never goes into Windows anymore.
With just a few more drivers, and an office suite that runs all of the macros in MS Office, I could completely break away from Windows, myself.
I would have called it XP Pro, SP7 - but who's counting, right?
4) that an injunction does not harm the public interest
One does NOT NEED to be an opensource fanboi to make a decent argument that it would be in the public interest to strip MS of Office completely. There is a long list of word processors that have been exterminated, thanks to MS. Without a megalopoly pushing their version of an office suite, not only would Open Office have a shot at taking the lead, but some of the older competition MIGHT have a chance of making a comeback. Not to mention, a new startup or six might get into the market.
Just think what COULD happen with a half dozen competitors in the field. Standards, maybe? Plummeting prices?
No, you don't need to be an open source fanboi, or even a MS basher to see that it could be good for all of us if MS got out of the office arena.
"a metric ass-load of batteries"
I can't seem to find a conversion chart for that. Could you put that into US tons? Or, long tons? Hell, metric tons would work. Just give us something to go by, alright?
ROFLMAO, I just couldn't help myself!
I think we all agree that the laws are pretty borked. Even Microsoft has said as much, from time to time. It would behoove Microsoft to actively lobby for sane laws, no? Of course, sane laws work against the most well intentioned people from time to time - but they don't enable deadbeats to rape and pillage established enterprises.
American ethnocentrism. What a concept, huh? People who have never been out of the country are perfectly willing to judge things of which they know nothing.
Let us remember, the Russian people, under Soviet leadership, faced us throughout the cold war for decades. AND, they competed respectably in space. Running them down is pure ignorance, IMHO.
I admire Ghandi - the man was brilliant. But, no, he didn't favor gun control. Given the opportunity, he would have put an army in the field to accomplish his goals. Mahatma Ghandi resorted to nonviolent means, because the tools necessary for military resistance were unavailable to him. In effect, he became a general who mastered "assymetrical warfare". The man understood Sun Tzu's teachings better than many recognized generals. Only after Ghandi had age, experience, and a measure of success behind him, might he have favored a prohibition of weapons among the masses. The younger man bemoaned the fact that his oppressors had all the guns, many times.
http://www.potowmack.org/gandhi.html
The commentary that accompanies the quote is typical of people who have enshrined Ghandi as something he was not. The commntor simply does not understand Ghandi, and only partially understands what Ghandi's aims were.
I invite you to read Ghandi's biography - especially that portion of his life spent in Africa. The man was most certainly not a pacifist by choice.
http://www.cqpress.com/docs/City%204%20-%20Most%20Dangerous_14E.pdf
Comparing different nations, and ethnically different people is interesting. Try the link above. American cities are listed by crime rate. Washington, D.C. stands near the top of the list, as does Baltimore, MD, and several California cities. Browse them, and compare their murder rates to their gun control laws. The most restrictive cities in the nation are on that list. California is interesting, because they have gone so far as to take down billboards and advertisements that depict firearms, but they still manage to lead the nation in violent crime. Since all of these cities are US cities, it's fair to compare them.
Tokyo? I don't mean to sound ethnocentric, but they are very different than anyone outside of Asia. Like most Asians, they are taught from the cradle that honor is more important than anything else in life. In America, we are taught that rights are the important thing. You can't honestly compare their violent crime rates to ours.
Comparing European crime rates to US crime rates seems reasonable, as our culture is based on theirs. Same goes for Canada and Australia.
The point is - when guns are outlawed, only outlaws have guns. Sorry if that wasn't clear.....
Unlike AC, you sign your name. Like AC, you attack the messanger, rather than the message. Did you read the links? Can you refute them? The answer is "NO", you can't refute them.
Your comments are rather revealing. Have you had dreams of murder and dismemberment all of your life? I can well understand why you don't want to see a little man with a weapon, or a woman. I've read about individuals who replace sexual stimulation with mucking around inside of a corpse. I guess that disfiguring a real man's genitals would be some sort of compensation for your own inadequacies.
READ THE LINKS!! They make my case.
"but experience in countries with gun control regulations shows that criminals have guns far less often."
You're right. The criminals in Nazi Germany had no guns, nor did the criminals in Soviet Russia. Well, not unless you count the criminals who were running the government.
And, this is precisely why so many people fear guns. They want to hide behind the AC tag, and use vulgarity - knowing they are safe. They also expect to be just as safe when they choose to run their mouth on the street. I'll bet my dollar against your penny, if a real man answers his little potty mouth, AC will pick up a rock, a club, a knife, or something because he's AC. When the real man shoots him dead, then that man is in the wrong for having a weapon. Go figure.
Anonymous COWARD.
http://www.legis.state.wi.us/LRB/pubs/ttp/ttp-09-2003.html
http://www.justfacts.com/guncontrol.asp
Go, coward, read. The facts are, when the populace is armed, violent crimes go down. When citizens are disarmed, crime goes up.
Since we have already established that you are a coward, allow me to ask a simple question: If/when you ever creep out of your Mama's basement, hoping to drag a female into your den, would you rather face women who are armed, and are able to resist? Or, would you rather face defenseless women? I don't give you much chance in either instance - but I am perfectly happy with armed women. Knowing that she can shoot you dead if you get out of line just helps to keep a guy honest.
I love headlines like these, which you will NEVER read in gaywad anonymous coward magazines:
http://wheelgun.blogspot.com/2005/04/jacksonville-great-grandmother-shoots.html
http://forums.randi.org/archive/index.php/t-47396.html
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4191/is_20001128/ai_n9979806/
Adolph Hitler and Joseph Stalin were both gun control proponents. I suppose you would like those individuals, right? Douchebag, yourself.
And, why, exactly, can you not modify them? Any box I've ever touched had an option to "update firmware". Granted, I haven't touched them all, but I can't imagine one without the option. If your box is using open source, people can build their own firmware - look at all the WRT firmwares available, starting with Tomato, DDWRT, OpenWRT - and there may be more.
A bright individual might roll his own, or not.
Actually - it might be to the ISP's advantage to allow this sort of thing. Some people are going to brick their boxes while tampering with them. Warranty is void, of course, if the box has been tampered with. So, the ISP gets the opportunity to sell another 20 dollar (or Euro, kroner, or whatever they use up there) box for 50 dollars.
Inform people that they have options. I'm all for that.
On the other hand, I wonder if pursuing these sort of actions might not scare vendors away from open source?
Google engineer muttering to himself, "Hmmm, how did we get a crystalcole07 in here? I thought we had the worst bugs fixed in this code....... hmmmm..... there, that should fix it.... OK, next problem...."
"(e.g. Google App Engine)"
I read that as "Google ____ Empire" Had to look again, to see "Google App Empire". Says to myself, "Self, WTF is wrong with you?" I got it right on the third read.
To many people posting about evil google, I guess. LMAO
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_mur_percap-crime-murders-per-capita%5D
There you go - I've done half of your homework for you. Read, draw conclusions, then come back and start making claims.
Meanwhile - I'll tell you a little story.
Walked into a McDonald's late one night, in New York City. NY, of course, has just about the most restrictive firearms laws in the nation. A young man fumbled in his jacket pocket for some change, and dropped a little bitty pistol on the floor across the room from me. The guy scared me - looked like some kind of a dopehead freak, real nervous, obviuosly not smart because he carried the pistol loose in a pocket, AND he dropped the damned thing. Yes, I was scared.
Walked into a cafe in the panhandle of Texas for breakfast some months later. Every redneck in the joint had a firearm. Maybe 8 guys had pistols strapped to their hips, and every single truck in the parking lot had a rifle or two in racks. I felt perfectly safe among these people. No fear, no unease, no tightening of the sphincter. Before anyone asks, NONE of these men had badges - they were all cattlemen and ranch hands.
"Please compare then murders in Japan (where honest citizens are not allowed to carry weapons) to those of Texas (where honest citizens are allowed to carry weapons)."
Please do. I'm all ears - I'm willing to learn.
Oh - wait - you were expecting ME to look up the figures? How might that help you to make your point, whatever the hell that is?