Seriously, what's so bad about client-side decorations?
The fact that some applications aren't always well written, and may crash, and also the fact we'd like to have everything in the window decorations to be drawn with the same way, with same colors, etc.
Also, I don't think nobody is trying to take network transparency away from you.
Every new application implementing Wayland and *not* X, will not work remotely. It would be the first time in the Linux world that some windowed wouldn't work remotely. How isn't this taking away network transparency from me?
Well, how many desktop users actually use network transparency? (only a minority of users).
- Choosing to ignore a functionality, because only a minority needs is a bad argument. Best is to have all features, always.
- Saying that a functionality should be dropped because of something that has nothing to do with it (eg: the look of applications has nothing to do with networking capability of a windowing system, really...) sounds revert-thinking. Why can't we have BOTH networking and a nice look?
- Writing that you know what so "many [Linux] desktop users want" is also quite pretending.
See how Wayland fits in the picture very well?
I would have rather have a good FreeNX support in my distribution than a new windowing system, especially when X becomes relegated to emulation in favor of a new incompatible mode. If Wayland arrived on the desktop 20 years ago, it might have been welcome considering how slow X was. But we're in 2011, we don't care about that anymore, there's composing managers like compiz, lots of power on the GPU, and networking becomes more and more important than the 1ms you will win.
In France, it is forbidden to deny the Holocaust, and even discuss about numbers of victims. You know, I used to agree with that (partly maybe because of my grand-father who was deported to Nazi camps because he was hiding weapons, which fills this subject with emotions). Now, since very recently, I don't anymore. Let me explain why.
Then, recently, I wanted to listen Robert Faurisson denial theories, just to know what he was talking about, and to make my own idea about it. After watching, and in all honesty, his thesis aren't only shocking, it's also completely absurd with very little to no valid evidence for supporting his ideas. He barely shows few maps, talks about how (now destroyed) buildings were made, and that's about it. When he's making comments about what he sees as healthy prisoners (he says they aren't starving, by showing a picture of a bunch of new prisoner just arrived), which is shocking and disgusting. I was very happy that it wasn't censored in Youtube, so I could see it for myself, and have points to make when someone is talking about this subject. If it was removed from Youtube, I would have nothing to tell to someone talking about Faurisson and the fact he is censored and could be seen as a victim of an imaginary Jewish cabal. Now, I know for a fact this is all bullshit.
So at the end, I now strongly feel like it's better to allow free speech, even the most disgusting ones, and fight against them, rather than censoring and make them seen as victims. There's no such thing as justified censorship, and it ALWAYS leads to abuse, and controversy of the worst kind used both ways.
It's been a long long time that I haven't seen any host asking for a SETUP FEE for a VPS. That's a sign that they must be doing the setup manually, which means you should avoid them (you want to be able to reinstall your OS yourself, that's one of the very basic features any decent host will have).
Yeah, right... How about you give a link so someone can download the full of the internet on it's local hard drive? THERE'S NO SUCH THING AS UNLIMITED. We live in a finite world. Linking to any random hosting company pushing for this universal lie isn't going to help the OP.
Using a full Debian operating system for your *work* has nothing to do with being a fanboy. I fully understand that some people might like the latest fart app, but please in your turn, understand that it might not be everyone's need. And yes, being able to have all the GNU tools IS important and very convenient. I do care my phone runs a full GNU based OS when I'll find my way in with ssh, openVPN, mtr, git, etc. By the way, in my case, I don't even use that device as a phone, just as a tiny laptop that fits in my pocket, and that appears to also have some phone functionality.
It seems like you feel that people using n900 are just spotty teenagers with glasses with no friends but their computers. It's not about being proud, but about having the tool that you need. I well understand that a Debian based phone might not be useful for the masses, but it's the right tool for me. I *NEED* some of the features that are in it, like git (we store/share our company passwords using that), networking tools (I built myself mtr), a real ssh client with ssh key support, and many more. I don't need them because it's "cool", or to be "proud", I need them for my WORK. Oh, and I don't use the n900 as a phone, because it's a really crappy phone that is so slow that you can actually miss phone calls (and because of obscure contracts that I would force me to overpay to do both 3G and phone calls over here), and I rarely start the messaging stuff because it makes the phone horribly slow.
So I wouldn't pay more for a phone that comes with Debian (since I already own one), unless it is ALSO a decent phone, which might be the issue here with the FreeRunner too.
as in my understanding Meego was a corporate driven project, and I'm not sure if I have it in me to fork an entire distribution.
Then don't fork the entire distribution, but just port some of the useful apps to Debian (like something useful to actually make phone calls for example...). That would be very valuable work!
why not just contribute to Meego / Mer / Tizen / whatever the hell it's called today?
Because it makes no sense to contribute to such project, when we got a solid base in Debian. Contributing nice phone apps in Debian will for sure make it to the device sooner or later. Contributing to Tizen, then you might see the full of the OS simply die for whatever reason not under your control.
Nice try, but neither Flash or Opera are coming pre-installed, hidden from the user, and impossible to force-kill. When I install Debian, I have the source for absolutely ALL what is in it (and no, Flash isn't part of Debian, it's in non-free, and non-free isn't part of Debian, that is written everywhere, and as for Opera, it's not even in non-free).
Well, it's even more a reason to help the guys working on having Debian and friends to replace the proprietary OSes that are shipped with Android. Please don't reply that Android is open source, unless you can show me the sources for CIQ!!! And just to advertize for the good: http://www.freesmartphone.org/
you have to sign the carriers agreement, and in the carriers agreement, there is undoubtedly a clause where you give them permission to collect your data and use it as they see fit
That would seem right, but only for the time of the contract. What if, as in the video, you have a phone which isn't bound to a contract anymore, and still spying on you?
I met with the project leader in FOSSASIA last year, and he's a very nice guy. I like the YaCy project, and even installed it on my laptop. But yet, I don't understand how this can be made news on Slashdot. The project is literally YEARS old. It's major flaw? Not enough peers. Last time I tried, there was hundreds of them, when it would really work if there was hundreds of thousands. Also, search is quite slow compared to google.
First, they make laws against terrorists. Then, they widen them so that terrorism can apply to more people. Then, they widen them again so that absolutely everyone can be included as a *potential* terrorist, so the law applies to everyone. Then, at some point, people that do not agree with governments are said to be terrorists, even though they are just protestors. Last, you wake up in a dictatorship regime.
Above, I haven't described USA, but what it can become if we don't take care!
You can always find a period of time where you are right (here, around 50 years), because we aren't at an all time low. Yet, over the last decade, I am.
Irrelevant and wrong. Irrelevant, because I wasn't discussing GW, I wrote that just seeing your backyard doesn't gives the big picture. Wrong, because ice in the south pole is growing, so what you are saying for north pole isn't right for the south (the south hemisphere has been cooling while the north warming over the last period).
There is plenty of grey between an extreme opinion and illegal speech.
There's no grey, it's called the 1st amendment, the rest of is bullshit.
They first tell you that terrorism speech is illegal, then they widen the definition of terrorism, and soon, everyone is considered a terrorist. This is just plain wrong and unconstitutional!
Passing laws that have no support in the general population. You can NOT uphold laws against the will of your subjects. A law that has no support will be ignored at best. Subverted at worst.
Yeah, right! And taking taxpayer money in order to give it to private banks cannot be done too since it's not what "your subjects" want, right?
Many rational people deny human caused climate change.
Not even. It's all about HOW MUCH we are doing. And if it's just about influencing a 2 degrees change in a century, that's not enough to get mad and tax everyone for breathing air.
Slashdot Mirror
Seriously, what's so bad about client-side decorations?
The fact that some applications aren't always well written, and may crash, and also the fact we'd like to have everything in the window decorations to be drawn with the same way, with same colors, etc.
Also, I don't think nobody is trying to take network transparency away from you.
Every new application implementing Wayland and *not* X, will not work remotely. It would be the first time in the Linux world that some windowed wouldn't work remotely. How isn't this taking away network transparency from me?
Well, how many desktop users actually use network transparency? (only a minority of users).
- Choosing to ignore a functionality, because only a minority needs is a bad argument. Best is to have all features, always.
- Saying that a functionality should be dropped because of something that has nothing to do with it (eg: the look of applications has nothing to do with networking capability of a windowing system, really...) sounds revert-thinking. Why can't we have BOTH networking and a nice look?
- Writing that you know what so "many [Linux] desktop users want" is also quite pretending.
See how Wayland fits in the picture very well?
I would have rather have a good FreeNX support in my distribution than a new windowing system, especially when X becomes relegated to emulation in favor of a new incompatible mode. If Wayland arrived on the desktop 20 years ago, it might have been welcome considering how slow X was. But we're in 2011, we don't care about that anymore, there's composing managers like compiz, lots of power on the GPU, and networking becomes more and more important than the 1ms you will win.
They still don't get it do they? We don't want a ROYALTY free format, but also a PATENT FREE format.
In France, it is forbidden to deny the Holocaust, and even discuss about numbers of victims. You know, I used to agree with that (partly maybe because of my grand-father who was deported to Nazi camps because he was hiding weapons, which fills this subject with emotions). Now, since very recently, I don't anymore. Let me explain why.
Then, recently, I wanted to listen Robert Faurisson denial theories, just to know what he was talking about, and to make my own idea about it. After watching, and in all honesty, his thesis aren't only shocking, it's also completely absurd with very little to no valid evidence for supporting his ideas. He barely shows few maps, talks about how (now destroyed) buildings were made, and that's about it. When he's making comments about what he sees as healthy prisoners (he says they aren't starving, by showing a picture of a bunch of new prisoner just arrived), which is shocking and disgusting. I was very happy that it wasn't censored in Youtube, so I could see it for myself, and have points to make when someone is talking about this subject. If it was removed from Youtube, I would have nothing to tell to someone talking about Faurisson and the fact he is censored and could be seen as a victim of an imaginary Jewish cabal. Now, I know for a fact this is all bullshit.
So at the end, I now strongly feel like it's better to allow free speech, even the most disgusting ones, and fight against them, rather than censoring and make them seen as victims. There's no such thing as justified censorship, and it ALWAYS leads to abuse, and controversy of the worst kind used both ways.
It's been a long long time that I haven't seen any host asking for a SETUP FEE for a VPS. That's a sign that they must be doing the setup manually, which means you should avoid them (you want to be able to reinstall your OS yourself, that's one of the very basic features any decent host will have).
Yeah, right... How about you give a link so someone can download the full of the internet on it's local hard drive? THERE'S NO SUCH THING AS UNLIMITED. We live in a finite world. Linking to any random hosting company pushing for this universal lie isn't going to help the OP.
There's the full answer here:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=19888836
Using a full Debian operating system for your *work* has nothing to do with being a fanboy. I fully understand that some people might like the latest fart app, but please in your turn, understand that it might not be everyone's need. And yes, being able to have all the GNU tools IS important and very convenient. I do care my phone runs a full GNU based OS when I'll find my way in with ssh, openVPN, mtr, git, etc. By the way, in my case, I don't even use that device as a phone, just as a tiny laptop that fits in my pocket, and that appears to also have some phone functionality.
It seems like you feel that people using n900 are just spotty teenagers with glasses with no friends but their computers. It's not about being proud, but about having the tool that you need. I well understand that a Debian based phone might not be useful for the masses, but it's the right tool for me. I *NEED* some of the features that are in it, like git (we store/share our company passwords using that), networking tools (I built myself mtr), a real ssh client with ssh key support, and many more. I don't need them because it's "cool", or to be "proud", I need them for my WORK. Oh, and I don't use the n900 as a phone, because it's a really crappy phone that is so slow that you can actually miss phone calls (and because of obscure contracts that I would force me to overpay to do both 3G and phone calls over here), and I rarely start the messaging stuff because it makes the phone horribly slow.
So I wouldn't pay more for a phone that comes with Debian (since I already own one), unless it is ALSO a decent phone, which might be the issue here with the FreeRunner too.
as in my understanding Meego was a corporate driven project, and I'm not sure if I have it in me to fork an entire distribution.
Then don't fork the entire distribution, but just port some of the useful apps to Debian (like something useful to actually make phone calls for example...). That would be very valuable work!
why not just contribute to Meego / Mer / Tizen / whatever the hell it's called today?
Because it makes no sense to contribute to such project, when we got a solid base in Debian. Contributing nice phone apps in Debian will for sure make it to the device sooner or later. Contributing to Tizen, then you might see the full of the OS simply die for whatever reason not under your control.
Nice try, but neither Flash or Opera are coming pre-installed, hidden from the user, and impossible to force-kill. When I install Debian, I have the source for absolutely ALL what is in it (and no, Flash isn't part of Debian, it's in non-free, and non-free isn't part of Debian, that is written everywhere, and as for Opera, it's not even in non-free).
Well, it's even more a reason to help the guys working on having Debian and friends to replace the proprietary OSes that are shipped with Android. Please don't reply that Android is open source, unless you can show me the sources for CIQ!!! And just to advertize for the good: http://www.freesmartphone.org/
you have to sign the carriers agreement, and in the carriers agreement, there is undoubtedly a clause where you give them permission to collect your data and use it as they see fit
That would seem right, but only for the time of the contract. What if, as in the video, you have a phone which isn't bound to a contract anymore, and still spying on you?
I met with the project leader in FOSSASIA last year, and he's a very nice guy. I like the YaCy project, and even installed it on my laptop. But yet, I don't understand how this can be made news on Slashdot. The project is literally YEARS old. It's major flaw? Not enough peers. Last time I tried, there was hundreds of them, when it would really work if there was hundreds of thousands. Also, search is quite slow compared to google.
First, they make laws against terrorists. Then, they widen them so that terrorism can apply to more people. Then, they widen them again so that absolutely everyone can be included as a *potential* terrorist, so the law applies to everyone. Then, at some point, people that do not agree with governments are said to be terrorists, even though they are just protestors. Last, you wake up in a dictatorship regime.
Above, I haven't described USA, but what it can become if we don't take care!
You can always find a period of time where you are right (here, around 50 years), because we aren't at an all time low. Yet, over the last decade, I am.
I have been running XP under VirtualBox and it runs super fast.
I really fail to understand how things like this are anywhere related to a particular distribution, yet being an argument in favor of any of them!
Irrelevant and wrong. Irrelevant, because I wasn't discussing GW, I wrote that just seeing your backyard doesn't gives the big picture. Wrong, because ice in the south pole is growing, so what you are saying for north pole isn't right for the south (the south hemisphere has been cooling while the north warming over the last period).
Do you see any sign that the government cares about OWS?
There is plenty of grey between an extreme opinion and illegal speech.
There's no grey, it's called the 1st amendment, the rest of is bullshit.
They first tell you that terrorism speech is illegal, then they widen the definition of terrorism, and soon, everyone is considered a terrorist. This is just plain wrong and unconstitutional!
Passing laws that have no support in the general population. You can NOT uphold laws against the will of your subjects. A law that has no support will be ignored at best. Subverted at worst.
Yeah, right! And taking taxpayer money in order to give it to private banks cannot be done too since it's not what "your subjects" want, right?
Please mod parent "-1 troll" ...
Yes. And seeing how much pollution it does, coal is a problem by itself anyway, global warming or not...
Many rational people deny human caused climate change.
Not even. It's all about HOW MUCH we are doing. And if it's just about influencing a 2 degrees change in a century, that's not enough to get mad and tax everyone for breathing air.