+1. I've used vmware to develop our win7 SOE without any issues. Win7 on Vmware is solid. I was even running it in Workstation 6.5 without official vmware support and it was fine.
Don't forget a good portion of Macs. Safari on OS X is pretty damn neat. Its good on Windows too, but does leak memory a bit and can do with a re-start every couple of days. Chrome is also webkit...
Here here. For a long time (well, after Netscape 3.0)... netscape was... well... shit. Buggy, slow, memory hungry - there was very little incentive to bother downloading and installing it. Mozilla was also pretty crap until the Phoenix/Firebird/Firefox branch came along. IE4/IE5 wasn't perfect by any stretch, but it wasn't up against much competition...
That, and the fact that its largely compatible with all the IE only corporate SHIT out there (i'm looking in your direction, sharepoint) means it will be stuck on corporate networks for some time.
Given the choice between having to support 350 clients on IE8 with auto patching via WSUS, etc - or Firefox/Chrome by relying on 350 PCs to go off and get their own updates whenever the user feels like it - I choose IE8 as the corporate standard.
Like it or hate it, IE8 can run just about any corporate crap you throw at it - if run in compatibility mode, and you have sensible group policy settings for security zones and the pop up blocker.
I just migrated the domain to it and niggles have been few and far between.
Admins sticking it out on IE8 (without bothering to actually test/attempt to fix the breakage) are being overly fearful, imho.
Put it this way, if you're a corp and want a supported version of Windows, you need to go to IE7 or IE8 with Vista or 7 in the next 12 months or so in any case...
should have 3x or 4x redundancy (with a voting system) on critical systems like on mil-spec components. a stuck throttle cable can have the same effect on non-fbw cars. electronic can be MORE reliable if done PROPERLY.
Rolling out/upgrading chrome/firefox on a corporate network in a controlled manner is a pain in the arse.
I rolled out IE8 the other day with a few clicks in WSUS. I know exactly what patch level all the machines are on, which ones are still yet to be fired up and update, etc.
Trying to do that with Firefox/Chrome without a bunch of scripting and/or tools we don't already have (eg, WSUS)? I'd still be at it next month.
Put the password in firefox and save it you say? Yeah, sure if they're not a fucking moron user.
If they ARE a typical moron user, 3 months comes around, they change their password, expect it to have magically updated in firefox/chrome/whatever, click OK 3 times and lock themselves out.
Don't get me wrong, I avoid IE8 for everything I can, but when responsible for a corporate network, trying to reliably support anything else out in the field (that can't be configured via group policy, doesn't do updates via WSUS, etc) - is a pain in the arse.
Then I've still got two browsers to maintain. They shouldn't be fucking around on the internet at work in any case. For the record, I've rolled 8 out and we have only had a few niggles with internal application type sites that need to be added to the pop up blocker's allow list. Other than that, its fine.
Our policy at work is use whatever IE version we roll out (we have mandatory proxy use / managed anti-malware protection everywhere), if you install another browser, on your head be it. You can use it if you want, but you need to figure out the proxy settings to get out and it is completely unsupported.
Well, as a PC user of some 21 years (amiga before that), I recently bought a Mac (mini). It is high quality when measured by the metrics of
aesthetic design - it looks cool
build quality - it feels sturdy, well made and has no sharp edges or flimsy bits
it is virtually silent
it puts out FAR less heat than any PC i've had this decade
Its cheap, it runs anything I throw at it (no games, admittedly, i've got a pre-nvidia model) and just sits in the corner, quite happily.
I'm not buying PC hardware again, unless its a purpose built box that can't be done by something like a mini... The mini will run PC operating systems if i need to, and the hardware is just so much nicer to actually operate.
Cheers for the response and for the record I agree. I run/ran vista on plenty of hardware and yes on anything that was purchased with a decent spec in 2004 or so, it is fine.
My post was more taking the piss at the/. majority who rant on how shit vista is, and how "it is year of the linux desktop!", only to have it outperform Linux on tests like this.
Yes, its only 0.002ms or whatever, but it steal beat linux on that test:D
NTLM/windows domain authentication - single sign-on.
I haven't seen an alternative browser that it works reliably on yet. Yes, its a windows specific thing, but until other browsers properly support single sign on you're not going to get them into the corporate workplace in any fully supported manner. And if they're not at work, they're less likely to end up getting installed at home, either.
I mean, i'm an admin and run plenty of different browsers, but from a "please why won't the users leave me alone" perspective, properly patched IE plus any half competent malware protection (corporate firewall, managed AV solution, etc) IE on the corporate desktop wins.
Linux outperformed by windows Vista! or "Vista fastest web operating system!"
Seriously though, any idea why Chrome is faster on Vista, the most maligned, stereotyped as slow OS there has ever been? Would also be keen to see OS X results.
oh btw... I ran Debian as linux of choice between 1999 and 2007 (as mail/proxy/firewalls for various business clients).... so I'm not just a linux user who has no fucking clue on BSD, or a BSD user who has no clue on linux...:)
Only reason i have RHEL at the moment here is due to it being an officially supported platform for our ERP solution.
I think you underestimate how many people are willing to use the app store to make it useful. If you can do spreadsheets on it, plenty will find it useful for downtime whilst on the plane...
The netbook wastes space/weight on the keyboard. We have execs crying out for a touchscreen tablet that is light enough and small enough to do lightweight work/review of spreadsheets and email whilst in transit on the plane (we have remote sites that are 3 days travel time to get there). The iphone has been OK for this sort of thing when limited to email, but these users we have typically want a desktop replacement laptop (so its powerful enough for everything they may need to throw at it) which is just way too heavy and unwieldy to use whilst actually in transit.
The iPad is going to be a major win for these people. Its going to be the difference between losing 6 days of work for a trip to one of our remote sites, vs being able to spend at least SOME of that time number crunching in an excel equivalent.
Apple are masters of making stuff pleasant to use for the average Joe. On paper the iphone is pretty average. In reality, the touchscreen is awesome, the apps are pretty good and it "just works". The storage space is plenty for what I think is the target market - people who want a portable media device for plane trips that they can actually do work on. Laptops are too big to use on planes.
Disagree. If there is an app for it that can work on Excel spreadsheets or word documents, we have plenty of Employees who are looking for something cheap, extremely portable, with decent battery life that they can use on the plane. A 2kg notebook won't cut it (too heavy, too big to use on the tray table), and your typical netbook wastes a lot of space/weight with the keyboard as well.
If you want to develop apps yourself (99.9% of users won't) you can do so on a mac with the included xcode software and a nominal license fee.
I see it as being an epic win for corporate users who travel a lot and are finding that the smartphone they've been tethered to for the past few yeas is good for their email, etc while on the move, but not quite big enough to be productive.
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+1. I've used vmware to develop our win7 SOE without any issues. Win7 on Vmware is solid. I was even running it in Workstation 6.5 without official vmware support and it was fine.
Don't forget a good portion of Macs. Safari on OS X is pretty damn neat. Its good on Windows too, but does leak memory a bit and can do with a re-start every couple of days. Chrome is also webkit...
Here here. For a long time (well, after Netscape 3.0)... netscape was... well... shit. Buggy, slow, memory hungry - there was very little incentive to bother downloading and installing it. Mozilla was also pretty crap until the Phoenix/Firebird/Firefox branch came along. IE4/IE5 wasn't perfect by any stretch, but it wasn't up against much competition...
Given adequate malware protection, IE/Windows is quite maintainable. Which is why there are plenty of businesses out there successfully running it...
Given the choice between having to support 350 clients on IE8 with auto patching via WSUS, etc - or Firefox/Chrome by relying on 350 PCs to go off and get their own updates whenever the user feels like it - I choose IE8 as the corporate standard.
Like it or hate it, IE8 can run just about any corporate crap you throw at it - if run in compatibility mode, and you have sensible group policy settings for security zones and the pop up blocker.
I just migrated the domain to it and niggles have been few and far between.
Admins sticking it out on IE8 (without bothering to actually test/attempt to fix the breakage) are being overly fearful, imho.
Put it this way, if you're a corp and want a supported version of Windows, you need to go to IE7 or IE8 with Vista or 7 in the next 12 months or so in any case...
Sure, they still leak, but the extent is more contained if they eventually expire.
Even carby cars/trucks with electronic IGNITION usually also have a rev limiter by cutting spark.
should have 3x or 4x redundancy (with a voting system) on critical systems like on mil-spec components. a stuck throttle cable can have the same effect on non-fbw cars. electronic can be MORE reliable if done PROPERLY.
Rolling out/upgrading chrome/firefox on a corporate network in a controlled manner is a pain in the arse.
I rolled out IE8 the other day with a few clicks in WSUS. I know exactly what patch level all the machines are on, which ones are still yet to be fired up and update, etc.
Trying to do that with Firefox/Chrome without a bunch of scripting and/or tools we don't already have (eg, WSUS)? I'd still be at it next month.
Put the password in firefox and save it you say? Yeah, sure if they're not a fucking moron user.
If they ARE a typical moron user, 3 months comes around, they change their password, expect it to have magically updated in firefox/chrome/whatever, click OK 3 times and lock themselves out.
Don't get me wrong, I avoid IE8 for everything I can, but when responsible for a corporate network, trying to reliably support anything else out in the field (that can't be configured via group policy, doesn't do updates via WSUS, etc) - is a pain in the arse.
Our policy at work is use whatever IE version we roll out (we have mandatory proxy use / managed anti-malware protection everywhere), if you install another browser, on your head be it. You can use it if you want, but you need to figure out the proxy settings to get out and it is completely unsupported.
aesthetic design - it looks cool
build quality - it feels sturdy, well made and has no sharp edges or flimsy bits
it is virtually silent
it puts out FAR less heat than any PC i've had this decade
Its cheap, it runs anything I throw at it (no games, admittedly, i've got a pre-nvidia model) and just sits in the corner, quite happily.
I'm not buying PC hardware again, unless its a purpose built box that can't be done by something like a mini... The mini will run PC operating systems if i need to, and the hardware is just so much nicer to actually operate.
My post was more taking the piss at the /. majority who rant on how shit vista is, and how "it is year of the linux desktop!", only to have it outperform Linux on tests like this.
Yes, its only 0.002ms or whatever, but it steal beat linux on that test :D
I haven't seen an alternative browser that it works reliably on yet. Yes, its a windows specific thing, but until other browsers properly support single sign on you're not going to get them into the corporate workplace in any fully supported manner. And if they're not at work, they're less likely to end up getting installed at home, either.
I mean, i'm an admin and run plenty of different browsers, but from a "please why won't the users leave me alone" perspective, properly patched IE plus any half competent malware protection (corporate firewall, managed AV solution, etc) IE on the corporate desktop wins.
Seriously though, any idea why Chrome is faster on Vista, the most maligned, stereotyped as slow OS there has ever been? Would also be keen to see OS X results.
Only reason i have RHEL at the moment here is due to it being an officially supported platform for our ERP solution.
The BSD userland works and is tested with the BSD kernel. The GNU userland isn't, really.
The debian package manager is not really any better in real world use, so that leaves the GNU userland as being the only reason for its existence.
2c, but IMHO Debian/BSD is wasted effort that would be better spent on either Debian/Linux or FreeBSD proper...
Though, i guess if you're set on running a Debian system with a decent kernel...
When flying economy (sometime the only option in remote places) laptops are too big to use on the plane.
The hundreds of Cisco routers I've configured and flash updates over the years prove this.
No, its based on having used both Linux since 1996, and FreeBSD since 1999...
I think you underestimate how many people are willing to use the app store to make it useful. If you can do spreadsheets on it, plenty will find it useful for downtime whilst on the plane...
The iPad is going to be a major win for these people. Its going to be the difference between losing 6 days of work for a trip to one of our remote sites, vs being able to spend at least SOME of that time number crunching in an excel equivalent.
Apple are masters of making stuff pleasant to use for the average Joe. On paper the iphone is pretty average. In reality, the touchscreen is awesome, the apps are pretty good and it "just works". The storage space is plenty for what I think is the target market - people who want a portable media device for plane trips that they can actually do work on. Laptops are too big to use on planes.
If you want to develop apps yourself (99.9% of users won't) you can do so on a mac with the included xcode software and a nominal license fee.
I see it as being an epic win for corporate users who travel a lot and are finding that the smartphone they've been tethered to for the past few yeas is good for their email, etc while on the move, but not quite big enough to be productive.
That is a niche that will love this device.