Nobody is TAKING your money. You have engaged in a voluntary trade. You pay money, you get services. If you don't like it, you can leave, or attempt, through voting and public discourse to have your ideas enacted. No one is forcing you to remain a citizen of the United States, so quite whining. It makes you sound like a spoiled princess who doesn't appreciate how good she has it.
In Germany, the richest citizens just demanded they pay MORE in taxes. And they already pay more than we do. But they are not whiny babies who want everything for free like you do. They are responsible citizens who love their country and want what's best for all citizens. Your princess act just doesn't fly with me.
Yes. He says he will do some left-ish things. Says. We'll see what actually happens. So far, his record for action is not very lefty at all, even if he talks a bit of a lefty talk.
Nobody deserves to be slaughtered for their ideology. If they actually do something wrong, they deserve a trial. The fact that you defend a mass murderer makes you, well, evil. As I said before.
Ha, good one! Quite amusing, really. You've lost, but your ego just refuses to let you admit it. I've debated third graders who were better than you.
I've shown your argument to be vapid, illogical, and based completely in fantasy, and you can't refute me at all. You haven't begun to prove what you've asserted. You know you can't do it. But you still want to chalk it up as a win in your column.
I've shown that plenty of patriots DO NOT hold hand to heart during the National Anthem. I've refuted your claim that there are any other cases where Obama has not held his hand to his heart. You are left with the ONE incident where Obama did not hold his hand to his heart during the National Anthem, and you are trying to make a case, based on this ONE incident, that Obama refuses to do what others expect him.
I've simply demolished that argument. It is a smoking heap of rubble. I've called in the UN, they've searched, and there are no survivors, just a pathetic heap of broken logic, free of anything remotely resembling a fact.
But you congratulate yourself on your stunning victory all you like. No skin off my nose. Anyone reading this thread knows who really won, that's all I care about.
The fact that you applaud the US killing foreign heads of state for the 'crime' of being socialist is NOT distinct from the topic. It is entirely germane, and horrifying, so much so that it completely discredits anything else you have to say.
Just one? I already have. The US backed coup in Chile removed democratically elected president Salvador Allende and replaced him with Augusto Pinochet, a brutal monster who, as I said, slaughtered his people for generations to come. You may cheer that slaughter, but slaughter it was.
I can't believe you haven't given up by now. I mean, we both know I've handed you your ass over and over again in this debate. Your only defense so far has been a childish, "Nuh uh! Is not!" sort of vapid disagreement with the well documented facts I've cited.
Hopefully, these delicious truths burns painfully in the pit of your stomach as you contemplate the utter lie your entire life is based on.
Show me the multiple examples. I showed you multiple hand over the heart examples. I'm sure if this is as big a problem as you make out, you can find those multiple examples. It couldn't ALL be lies, prejudice, and predetermined conclusions, could it?
You have said Obama makes a habit of refusing to place his hand over his heart at customary times. In order to support your argument, you will need to do a few things you haven't done yet.
First, you will need to show what is customary. I've already made this very difficult for you by showing examples of other famous patriots singing the National Anthem without hand over heart. If there are other rituals where you believe it customary for a person to hold hand over heart, you will need to present evidence of the ubiquity of the custom.
Second, you will need to show that Obama 'habitually' refuses to do so. Not once. Habitually.
So far, you have failed in these two basic points. All you have shown is how crazy the Obama haters really are. They make things up, refuse to listen to reason, ignore facts, and believe what they want to believe.
If THAT was what you were trying to show, good job. You've done it in spades.
You think he is far too left. That's pretty damn confused. Please, though, enlighten me as to what 'leftist' things our current president has done. Note, if I can find an example of conservatives doing those same 'leftist' things, we can't really consider them very leftist, can we?
Let me remind you of what you said: "I may be too young to remember it, but I do applaud those past efforts of America to stop the inevitable tyranny and misery of Socialism in its tracks, wherever it tried to rear its ugly head or raise it bloody flag."
In this statement, you applaud the US intervention in other countries democratically elected representatives, and our support of coups and installation of military strongmen (who do you think replaces the socialists we kill?) We have killed other country's elected leaders for the crime of being socialist, and you applaud that.
I've presented plenty of evidence of us installing dictators, who then slaughtered their subjects. Read the links I gave. The evidence is clear.
You stated, "It is in fact true that he does not make a habit out of putting his hand over his heart when it would be respectful and customary."
How can you simply ignore his statement, "My grandfather taught me when I was 2. During the Pledge of Allegiance, you put your hand over your heart. During the national anthem, you sing?"
In short, though you try to come across as logical and disinterested, you are neither. Your argument doesn't hold water, Obama is doing nothing unusual in the way he sings the National Anthem rather than holding his hand over his heart (which makes it hard to sing properly.) And he always holds hand over heart during the pledge of allegiance. Your refusal to accept facts even from sources you yourself quote shows you are not disinterested.
You are attempting (in a sadly ineffective way) to spread fear, uncertainty, and doubt about Obama.
Which is pointless.
Why not spread the truth? Obama is a centrist who sold out the left wing. He's a corporatist who protects the interests of Wall Street over Main Street. He's kept very few of his campaign promises. Yeah, I voted for him, but only as the lesser of two evils. I would have preferred Hillary.
You implied that Obama 'makes a habit' of refusing to put his hand over his heart. I refuted that. You bring up one time when he didn't. Unless you can prove that Obama 'makes a habit' of it, as you said, then my statement stands, and the rest of that Snopes article backs me up.
On the other hand, we should never be tolerant of hatefulness and stupidity just so that we can seem tolerant and balanced. Hate is hate, and stupidity is stupidity, and I'm not going to sugar coat my opinions just because some hateful loon might get offended.
It is important to keep an open mind, but not so open your brain falls out.
I read most of the sources you cite, to get a balanced picture. hotair isn't one of them, it's of no importance and so far off the radar even the loons have a hard time finding it. I'm not dismissing it out of hand. I'm dismissing it for entirely valid reasons. It is a copypasta clone of a thousand other ignorant hate sites. If you've seen one, you've seen them all.
I'm sorely disappointed in Obama, too. He is in no way leftist or progressive. He is a right-center Reagan worshiper. He has admitted that Reagan is his favorite president.
However, it is in fact a complete fabrication that Obama won't put his hand over his heart:
I'm intent on proving you wrong in one regard only: the persecution of Christians. I personally have nothing against Christians, and quite respect the vast majority of you folks who just try to live by Christ's teachings.
Huh. Your unsourced quotation seems to be missing something, namely, any evidence to refute my claims. All it says is that the media pays attention to Obama. Doesn't say whether there was positive or negative coverage.
You keep setting them up like that, I'll keep knocking them out of the park.
How can you not get the irony of someone bitching about the bailout while asking to be bailed out? It's like getting hit across the face by a huge freaking BAR of irony, and somehow you missed it.
P.S. My posts are never worth reading, I'm a huge dick, like, ALL THE FREAKING TIME! I really don't understand why I keep getting modded up. Oh wait, it must be because the majority of Slashdot readers, like the majority of Americans, nay, the majority of ALL HUMAN BEINGS ON THE PLANET agree with me.
I did waste my time googling "Christians Killed", and found NOTHING like what you say. No American citizens have ever been killed for being Christian.
The ONE case I found, from DECADES ago, was a string of racially motivated, black on white murders. It had nothing to do with religion.
This nation is dominated and owned by Christians. The vast majority of citizens are Christian. Almost all government officials are Christian. Almost all business leaders are Christian. Our laws, from marriage laws to blue laws, are Christian. The idea that the dominant religious group in America is somehow persecuted is beyond ludicrous.
I'm guessing you get some kind of sick thrill out of your feelings of persecution, as if being a persecuted Christian makes you some kind of brave spiritual warrior, akin to the ancient Roman martyrs.
I don't like Obama, but he's better than Bush. The Mainstream media LOVED Bush. They don't seem to like Obama as much. I really don't know what kind of propaganda you've been listening to, but it seems to have lead you to develop a persecution complex of some sort.
Palin is such an amusing fool, it cheers everyone up to read about her hilarious antics. That sells papers, which is the real bias of 'mainstream' (read, corporate owned and pro corporatist) media.
Sorry, I can't trust any web site with that much obvious bias. hotair.com has obviously decided that Obama sucks, and they will do anything to prove it. I've yet to see anything logical or factual from the Obama haters. Not that I've had any high expectations for Obama, but these loons seem to think he kills old people by throwing babies at them, holds seances to talk to Lenin's ghost, and farts demons. It's hilarious to watch loons like you writhe about in abject terror over the coming End of America.
Christians aren't excluded from academia. If I saw anyone berated for their beliefs in a classroom, I'd complain. Trying to parse your 'Christian Science teacher' sentence, uh, a science teacher who is a member of Christian Scientists, or a science teacher who is Christian? My grandmother was a Christian Scientist, and a teacher. Maybe things have changed from her day?
I don't know, I just don't see this persecution you're afraid of. America is a Christian Nation, and outside of a few big cities, I bet I get more hell for being an atheist than you've ever gotten for being a Christian. You still HAVE to profess to be Christian to get elected almost anywhere in the US. It helps you get jobs, too.
As for Christians being killed for their faith every day, I'm going to have to go with 'You're delusional' on that one, sorry.
Slashdot Mirror
Nobody is TAKING your money. You have engaged in a voluntary trade. You pay money, you get services. If you don't like it, you can leave, or attempt, through voting and public discourse to have your ideas enacted. No one is forcing you to remain a citizen of the United States, so quite whining. It makes you sound like a spoiled princess who doesn't appreciate how good she has it.
In Germany, the richest citizens just demanded they pay MORE in taxes. And they already pay more than we do. But they are not whiny babies who want everything for free like you do. They are responsible citizens who love their country and want what's best for all citizens. Your princess act just doesn't fly with me.
Yes. He says he will do some left-ish things. Says. We'll see what actually happens. So far, his record for action is not very lefty at all, even if he talks a bit of a lefty talk.
Nobody deserves to be slaughtered for their ideology. If they actually do something wrong, they deserve a trial. The fact that you defend a mass murderer makes you, well, evil. As I said before.
Ha, good one! Quite amusing, really. You've lost, but your ego just refuses to let you admit it. I've debated third graders who were better than you.
I've shown your argument to be vapid, illogical, and based completely in fantasy, and you can't refute me at all. You haven't begun to prove what you've asserted. You know you can't do it. But you still want to chalk it up as a win in your column.
I've shown that plenty of patriots DO NOT hold hand to heart during the National Anthem. I've refuted your claim that there are any other cases where Obama has not held his hand to his heart. You are left with the ONE incident where Obama did not hold his hand to his heart during the National Anthem, and you are trying to make a case, based on this ONE incident, that Obama refuses to do what others expect him.
I've simply demolished that argument. It is a smoking heap of rubble. I've called in the UN, they've searched, and there are no survivors, just a pathetic heap of broken logic, free of anything remotely resembling a fact.
But you congratulate yourself on your stunning victory all you like. No skin off my nose. Anyone reading this thread knows who really won, that's all I care about.
The fact that you applaud the US killing foreign heads of state for the 'crime' of being socialist is NOT distinct from the topic. It is entirely germane, and horrifying, so much so that it completely discredits anything else you have to say.
Just one? I already have. The US backed coup in Chile removed democratically elected president Salvador Allende and replaced him with Augusto Pinochet, a brutal monster who, as I said, slaughtered his people for generations to come. You may cheer that slaughter, but slaughter it was.
I can't believe you haven't given up by now. I mean, we both know I've handed you your ass over and over again in this debate. Your only defense so far has been a childish, "Nuh uh! Is not!" sort of vapid disagreement with the well documented facts I've cited.
Hopefully, these delicious truths burns painfully in the pit of your stomach as you contemplate the utter lie your entire life is based on.
Show me the multiple examples. I showed you multiple hand over the heart examples. I'm sure if this is as big a problem as you make out, you can find those multiple examples. It couldn't ALL be lies, prejudice, and predetermined conclusions, could it?
You have said Obama makes a habit of refusing to place his hand over his heart at customary times. In order to support your argument, you will need to do a few things you haven't done yet.
First, you will need to show what is customary. I've already made this very difficult for you by showing examples of other famous patriots singing the National Anthem without hand over heart. If there are other rituals where you believe it customary for a person to hold hand over heart, you will need to present evidence of the ubiquity of the custom.
Second, you will need to show that Obama 'habitually' refuses to do so. Not once. Habitually.
So far, you have failed in these two basic points. All you have shown is how crazy the Obama haters really are. They make things up, refuse to listen to reason, ignore facts, and believe what they want to believe.
If THAT was what you were trying to show, good job. You've done it in spades.
You think he is far too left. That's pretty damn confused. Please, though, enlighten me as to what 'leftist' things our current president has done. Note, if I can find an example of conservatives doing those same 'leftist' things, we can't really consider them very leftist, can we?
Let me remind you of what you said: "I may be too young to remember it, but I do applaud those past efforts of America to stop the inevitable tyranny and misery of Socialism in its tracks, wherever it tried to rear its ugly head or raise it bloody flag."
In this statement, you applaud the US intervention in other countries democratically elected representatives, and our support of coups and installation of military strongmen (who do you think replaces the socialists we kill?) We have killed other country's elected leaders for the crime of being socialist, and you applaud that.
I've presented plenty of evidence of us installing dictators, who then slaughtered their subjects. Read the links I gave. The evidence is clear.
You stated, "It is in fact true that he does not make a habit out of putting his hand over his heart when it would be respectful and customary."
How can you simply ignore his statement, "My grandfather taught me when I was 2. During the Pledge of Allegiance, you put your hand over your heart. During the national anthem, you sing?"
Perhaps you should read the link I gave you, http://herstory07.wordpress.com/2008/01/28/this-is-why-i-hate-fwdfwdfwds/ which shows a few other historical figures' national anthem singing stances. Perhaps you should also read the Snopes article you quote.
In short, though you try to come across as logical and disinterested, you are neither. Your argument doesn't hold water, Obama is doing nothing unusual in the way he sings the National Anthem rather than holding his hand over his heart (which makes it hard to sing properly.) And he always holds hand over heart during the pledge of allegiance. Your refusal to accept facts even from sources you yourself quote shows you are not disinterested.
You are attempting (in a sadly ineffective way) to spread fear, uncertainty, and doubt about Obama.
Which is pointless.
Why not spread the truth? Obama is a centrist who sold out the left wing. He's a corporatist who protects the interests of Wall Street over Main Street. He's kept very few of his campaign promises. Yeah, I voted for him, but only as the lesser of two evils. I would have preferred Hillary.
Either that or the majority of both liberals and conservatives are completely confused about him.
Ding! Ding! Ding! We have a winner!
"This Modern World" says it best. Several times.
http://www.salon.com/comics/tomo/2009/08/04/tomo/index.html
http://www.salon.com/comics/tomo/2009/10/13/tomo/index.html
You implied that Obama 'makes a habit' of refusing to put his hand over his heart. I refuted that. You bring up one time when he didn't. Unless you can prove that Obama 'makes a habit' of it, as you said, then my statement stands, and the rest of that Snopes article backs me up.
On the other hand, we should never be tolerant of hatefulness and stupidity just so that we can seem tolerant and balanced. Hate is hate, and stupidity is stupidity, and I'm not going to sugar coat my opinions just because some hateful loon might get offended.
Absolutely serious.
The fact that your bias blinds you to the truth is pretty funny to me, so I guess we're even.
It is important to keep an open mind, but not so open your brain falls out.
I read most of the sources you cite, to get a balanced picture. hotair isn't one of them, it's of no importance and so far off the radar even the loons have a hard time finding it. I'm not dismissing it out of hand. I'm dismissing it for entirely valid reasons. It is a copypasta clone of a thousand other ignorant hate sites. If you've seen one, you've seen them all.
I'm sorely disappointed in Obama, too. He is in no way leftist or progressive. He is a right-center Reagan worshiper. He has admitted that Reagan is his favorite president.
However, it is in fact a complete fabrication that Obama won't put his hand over his heart:
http://blog.washingtonpost.com/fact-checker/2007/11/obama_nabbed_by_the_patriotic.html
http://robinhoecker.wordpress.com/2009/05/26/obama-observes-memorial-day-at-arlington/
http://www.zimbio.com/pictures/go9LID8MV0W/Obama+Gives+Commencement+Address+Arizona+State/xOfJ7prujMA/Michael+Crow
http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/0eMG9fn0agffK/340x.jpg
http://herstory07.wordpress.com/2008/01/28/this-is-why-i-hate-fwdfwdfwds/
So, you have provided me with another example of the lack of logic and facts regarding Obama-hate.
I'm intent on proving you wrong in one regard only: the persecution of Christians. I personally have nothing against Christians, and quite respect the vast majority of you folks who just try to live by Christ's teachings.
Huh. Your unsourced quotation seems to be missing something, namely, any evidence to refute my claims. All it says is that the media pays attention to Obama. Doesn't say whether there was positive or negative coverage.
You keep setting them up like that, I'll keep knocking them out of the park.
How can you not get the irony of someone bitching about the bailout while asking to be bailed out? It's like getting hit across the face by a huge freaking BAR of irony, and somehow you missed it.
P.S. My posts are never worth reading, I'm a huge dick, like, ALL THE FREAKING TIME! I really don't understand why I keep getting modded up. Oh wait, it must be because the majority of Slashdot readers, like the majority of Americans, nay, the majority of ALL HUMAN BEINGS ON THE PLANET agree with me.
I did waste my time googling "Christians Killed", and found NOTHING like what you say. No American citizens have ever been killed for being Christian.
The ONE case I found, from DECADES ago, was a string of racially motivated, black on white murders. It had nothing to do with religion.
This nation is dominated and owned by Christians. The vast majority of citizens are Christian. Almost all government officials are Christian. Almost all business leaders are Christian. Our laws, from marriage laws to blue laws, are Christian. The idea that the dominant religious group in America is somehow persecuted is beyond ludicrous.
I'm guessing you get some kind of sick thrill out of your feelings of persecution, as if being a persecuted Christian makes you some kind of brave spiritual warrior, akin to the ancient Roman martyrs.
You aren't.
I don't like Obama, but he's better than Bush. The Mainstream media LOVED Bush. They don't seem to like Obama as much. I really don't know what kind of propaganda you've been listening to, but it seems to have lead you to develop a persecution complex of some sort.
Palin is such an amusing fool, it cheers everyone up to read about her hilarious antics. That sells papers, which is the real bias of 'mainstream' (read, corporate owned and pro corporatist) media.
You believe that it is okay to depose democratically elected leaders in other countries if they happen to be socialist?
That's all I need to know about you. You are downright evil. I've been trying to argue with you, but it is obvious that you are simply beyond reach.
Good day.
I think Brendan should take personal responsibility for his own loans and not look to others to bail him out.
whereas in the US we don't see as high of a death toll,
AS HIGH?!?! You believe ANY US citizens are being killed for being Christian?
Now I actually pity you.
Sorry, I can't trust any web site with that much obvious bias. hotair.com has obviously decided that Obama sucks, and they will do anything to prove it. I've yet to see anything logical or factual from the Obama haters. Not that I've had any high expectations for Obama, but these loons seem to think he kills old people by throwing babies at them, holds seances to talk to Lenin's ghost, and farts demons. It's hilarious to watch loons like you writhe about in abject terror over the coming End of America.
Christians aren't excluded from academia. If I saw anyone berated for their beliefs in a classroom, I'd complain. Trying to parse your 'Christian Science teacher' sentence, uh, a science teacher who is a member of Christian Scientists, or a science teacher who is Christian? My grandmother was a Christian Scientist, and a teacher. Maybe things have changed from her day?
I don't know, I just don't see this persecution you're afraid of. America is a Christian Nation, and outside of a few big cities, I bet I get more hell for being an atheist than you've ever gotten for being a Christian. You still HAVE to profess to be Christian to get elected almost anywhere in the US. It helps you get jobs, too.
As for Christians being killed for their faith every day, I'm going to have to go with 'You're delusional' on that one, sorry.