Who said anything about taking what is yours? But since you brought it up, who decided what was yours to begin with? By what right do you exclude others, whom you have no contract with, from using things that you yourself aren't currently using?
I'm a social anarchist. Libertarians pervert anarchy, and hide their selfishness behind a guise of liberty. What you don't say is that you want the liberty to take away the liberty of those you deem inferior, through economic means. Either that, or you are utterly deluded as to the consequences of your proposals.
As Adam Smith said, "Civil government, so far as it is instituted for the security of property, is in reality instituted for the defence of the rich against the poor, or of those who have some property against those who have none at all." Libertarians want to reduce government to nothing more than the security of property. All they care about is the defense of the 'superior' rich against the rightful rage of the 'inferior' poor.
It is just so precious that you quote Havelock Vetinari of all fictional characters. The despot of Ankh-Morpork, the Machiavelli of Discworld, and the man that all libertarians truly strive to be.
Oh, okay. I don't consent to you owning land. I am a social anarchist, so don't preach to me. In America, 'Libertarian' is synonymous with 'individualist anarchist.' I do not live in Europe, where 'libertarian' means 'anarchist,' okay? I have no problem with European libertarians (who are just anarchists like me.) I have problems with individualist anarchists. Even though they DO NOT state that murder is okay. No anarchists do, you twat.
You have no idea what you are talking about. So go give your anarchy lessons to someone who knows less than you, mmm'kay?
Explain to me how two people can legally make a contract that excludes everyone else in the world from using a resource, without their consent and without recompense, then we'll talk, mmmmmmm'kay?
I have health care coverage because I am self employed and pay for my health care expenses out of pocket like you suggest, and this is what I get. Oh, this, plus a bill for over $6,000 for a broken ankle. So you can go take your unwarranted assumptions and shove them deep up your ass. You have no idea what you are talking about.
No. Your insurance company tells your doctor what he can and can't decide. Among the options left, he decides. And if they won't pay him, he won't fix you. So, the insurance companies decide. Not you. Not your doctor.
I had several years where I didn't work and was free to do whatever I pleased. I volunteered with homeless advocacy groups and soup kitchens for 35 hours a week. It was some of the most fun I've had in my life.
Yes they can. Private industry can collude with others to prevent you getting a job. They can buy all the land around yours and refuse you access. They can pollute your land and kill you, then if you've got anyone left alive to sue them, they can beat them with hundreds of lawyers.
In fact, it is the government that can't take your money, your freedom or your life without good reason. Private industry feels no compunction against doing so.
Hahaha, oh I always love that fantasy world you live in. Fortunately for America, you are wrong, and we will do just fine. We will be out of this recession in a year and a half, and Obama will look like a genius. He will sweep the next presidential election in a landslide, and we will get Universal health care. This will do so much to restore American competitiveness that we will experience huge economic growth before he leaves office, ushering in even more socialism, as people realize it just plain works.
You, on the other hand, will be bitterly eating crow and whining about how it all sucks and will be falling apart any day now.
You caught me. How about this: all non nutcases are on the same side. Libertarians, creationists, and other nutcases can take a long walk off a short pier.
Thankfully, your opinions are not held by the majority of US citizens. We believe we have a constitutional rule of law with nothing even approaching socialism in any way shape or form. We have tried lassez faire, it has failed miserably every time we've tried it. Even Adam Smith said that free markets need regulation in order to remain free.
It baffles me how people can think the government can be corrupted easily, but a free market can't. Free markets without oversight by the people are FAR easier to corrupt than governments.
But THAT is the sick little secret of libertarianism: you want to be the ones corrupting things, and you all think you'd have a better shot if the government got out of your way. Don't think for a second that the average sane citizen can't see through your bullshit to the lurking wanna-be slave owner underneath.
See, this is your problem. You project your own inadequacies onto the rest of the world. Most of us work not because we have to, but because we are good people who want to contribute. Thankfully, most people are not lazy, selfish assholes.
There are hundreds of regimes around the world doing worse. Some of them we even put in power. We do nothing there, why is Iraq different? THAT is the question. Why are we meddling there, and not in any place with real problems, like Somalia?
Right. People need a wake up call that the free market is broken, and the fix we need is to nationalize the banks and the health care system, which is exactly what will happen if things get bad enough. You folks better start praying things don't get that bad, and that we continue to limp along with the broken system you prefer, rather than scrapping it and going with what has been proven to work: socialism. Don't forget, it was you free market, deregulate everything folks that put us in this position in the first place.
Anecdotes are not evidence. And oddly enough, everyone who is against universal health care has an anecdote just like yours. You guys must all be well traveled!
I have an anecdote too. My wife broke her ankle recently. She spent eight hours waiting in the emergency room. Her primary care physician is so booked up, she couldn't get in for a month, even with a broken ankle. And we HAVE health care coverage.
The fact is, we pay four times the amount of the next most expensive health care system in the world. And measured by life expectancy, child mortality rates, and so on, our health care system provides outcomes similar to a third world country.
Your 'friend' in England must not have realized he can get top quality private health care there, and that it costs less because the hospitals bill directly. Maybe you can tell him?
Unfortunately for you, the facts are plain. Americans pay the most for our health care, per capita. Four times as much as any other country. And we have one of the worst health care outcomes, as measured by average life expectancy, child mortality rate, and so forth. Our outcomes are worse than some third world countries. So, for four times the cost of the next most expensive health care system, we get a third world health care system. You can speculate all you want, but your speculations are proven worthless by the real world.
Right now, you have private insurance companies, dedicated to nothing more than profiting off of your suffering, deciding whether you get care. Do you honestly think that is better?
Nope. Nobody on 'my side' has ever wanted America to lose a war. Try again. Here's a hint: you may want to stop looking at politics as something with 'sides' and realize we are all in this together.
Oh wait, you aren't joking, you sick nutcase. You actually WANT America to fail. You would rather we are all plunged into poverty and chaos than admit your ideology is broken.
The Thought Police aren't coming to kill you, they are coming to enslave you. Feel like running now? No? Did I mention they are IMAGINARY? Now what are you going to do? How do you fight that which is only in your mind?
Your seriousness has killed the funny. You could have at least put it in terms of a pithy quote about liberty, lions and jackals, or free beer.
Slashdot Mirror
Powerlineblog? Seriously? Next you'll be quoting Anne Coulter and Rush Limbaugh at me. Cry more, emo Republican.
No problem, since you asked so politely.
Who said anything about taking what is yours? But since you brought it up, who decided what was yours to begin with? By what right do you exclude others, whom you have no contract with, from using things that you yourself aren't currently using?
I'm a social anarchist. Libertarians pervert anarchy, and hide their selfishness behind a guise of liberty. What you don't say is that you want the liberty to take away the liberty of those you deem inferior, through economic means. Either that, or you are utterly deluded as to the consequences of your proposals.
As Adam Smith said, "Civil government, so far as it is instituted for the security of property, is in reality instituted for the defence of the rich against the poor, or of those who have some property against those who have none at all." Libertarians want to reduce government to nothing more than the security of property. All they care about is the defense of the 'superior' rich against the rightful rage of the 'inferior' poor.
It is just so precious that you quote Havelock Vetinari of all fictional characters. The despot of Ankh-Morpork, the Machiavelli of Discworld, and the man that all libertarians truly strive to be.
Sorry, I do not 'dig' your 'hole.' Not that there's anything wrong with that, mind you, I just don't swing that way.
That is what you took away from Stirner? That's the lesson you learned? Now everything becomes clear.
Oh, okay. I don't consent to you owning land. I am a social anarchist, so don't preach to me. In America, 'Libertarian' is synonymous with 'individualist anarchist.' I do not live in Europe, where 'libertarian' means 'anarchist,' okay? I have no problem with European libertarians (who are just anarchists like me.) I have problems with individualist anarchists. Even though they DO NOT state that murder is okay. No anarchists do, you twat.
You have no idea what you are talking about. So go give your anarchy lessons to someone who knows less than you, mmm'kay?
Explain to me how two people can legally make a contract that excludes everyone else in the world from using a resource, without their consent and without recompense, then we'll talk, mmmmmmm'kay?
I have health care coverage because I am self employed and pay for my health care expenses out of pocket like you suggest, and this is what I get. Oh, this, plus a bill for over $6,000 for a broken ankle. So you can go take your unwarranted assumptions and shove them deep up your ass. You have no idea what you are talking about.
No. Your insurance company tells your doctor what he can and can't decide. Among the options left, he decides. And if they won't pay him, he won't fix you. So, the insurance companies decide. Not you. Not your doctor.
I had several years where I didn't work and was free to do whatever I pleased. I volunteered with homeless advocacy groups and soup kitchens for 35 hours a week. It was some of the most fun I've had in my life.
Yes they can. Private industry can collude with others to prevent you getting a job. They can buy all the land around yours and refuse you access. They can pollute your land and kill you, then if you've got anyone left alive to sue them, they can beat them with hundreds of lawyers.
In fact, it is the government that can't take your money, your freedom or your life without good reason. Private industry feels no compunction against doing so.
Hahaha, oh I always love that fantasy world you live in. Fortunately for America, you are wrong, and we will do just fine. We will be out of this recession in a year and a half, and Obama will look like a genius. He will sweep the next presidential election in a landslide, and we will get Universal health care. This will do so much to restore American competitiveness that we will experience huge economic growth before he leaves office, ushering in even more socialism, as people realize it just plain works.
You, on the other hand, will be bitterly eating crow and whining about how it all sucks and will be falling apart any day now.
You caught me. How about this: all non nutcases are on the same side. Libertarians, creationists, and other nutcases can take a long walk off a short pier.
Thankfully, your opinions are not held by the majority of US citizens. We believe we have a constitutional rule of law with nothing even approaching socialism in any way shape or form. We have tried lassez faire, it has failed miserably every time we've tried it. Even Adam Smith said that free markets need regulation in order to remain free.
It baffles me how people can think the government can be corrupted easily, but a free market can't. Free markets without oversight by the people are FAR easier to corrupt than governments.
But THAT is the sick little secret of libertarianism: you want to be the ones corrupting things, and you all think you'd have a better shot if the government got out of your way. Don't think for a second that the average sane citizen can't see through your bullshit to the lurking wanna-be slave owner underneath.
You can't even bring yourself to type the name 'Barack.' Why should anyone take you seriously?
See, this is your problem. You project your own inadequacies onto the rest of the world. Most of us work not because we have to, but because we are good people who want to contribute. Thankfully, most people are not lazy, selfish assholes.
There are hundreds of regimes around the world doing worse. Some of them we even put in power. We do nothing there, why is Iraq different? THAT is the question. Why are we meddling there, and not in any place with real problems, like Somalia?
Right. People need a wake up call that the free market is broken, and the fix we need is to nationalize the banks and the health care system, which is exactly what will happen if things get bad enough. You folks better start praying things don't get that bad, and that we continue to limp along with the broken system you prefer, rather than scrapping it and going with what has been proven to work: socialism. Don't forget, it was you free market, deregulate everything folks that put us in this position in the first place.
Anecdotes are not evidence. And oddly enough, everyone who is against universal health care has an anecdote just like yours. You guys must all be well traveled!
I have an anecdote too. My wife broke her ankle recently. She spent eight hours waiting in the emergency room. Her primary care physician is so booked up, she couldn't get in for a month, even with a broken ankle. And we HAVE health care coverage.
The fact is, we pay four times the amount of the next most expensive health care system in the world. And measured by life expectancy, child mortality rates, and so on, our health care system provides outcomes similar to a third world country.
Your 'friend' in England must not have realized he can get top quality private health care there, and that it costs less because the hospitals bill directly. Maybe you can tell him?
Unfortunately for you, the facts are plain. Americans pay the most for our health care, per capita. Four times as much as any other country. And we have one of the worst health care outcomes, as measured by average life expectancy, child mortality rate, and so forth. Our outcomes are worse than some third world countries. So, for four times the cost of the next most expensive health care system, we get a third world health care system. You can speculate all you want, but your speculations are proven worthless by the real world.
Right now, you have private insurance companies, dedicated to nothing more than profiting off of your suffering, deciding whether you get care. Do you honestly think that is better?
Nope. Nobody on 'my side' has ever wanted America to lose a war. Try again. Here's a hint: you may want to stop looking at politics as something with 'sides' and realize we are all in this together.
We could help you if your only problem was laziness.
Or can we just guess that it is more of the same bass-ackwardness that *is* Europe?
Unfortunately, you are too stupid to understand even if we explained things to you in small words.
Oh wait, you aren't joking, you sick nutcase. You actually WANT America to fail. You would rather we are all plunged into poverty and chaos than admit your ideology is broken.
Therefore, no. The high end will not be going away. Some folks will always feel inadequate and seek to compensate.
The Thought Police aren't coming to kill you, they are coming to enslave you. Feel like running now? No? Did I mention they are IMAGINARY? Now what are you going to do? How do you fight that which is only in your mind?
Your seriousness has killed the funny. You could have at least put it in terms of a pithy quote about liberty, lions and jackals, or free beer.