You are confusing llibertarians with anarchists. No left leaning anarchist in America calls themselves libertarian. I know, I am a hippie anarcho-syndicalist, although I believe free markets can be efficient mechanisms for wealth creation if they are regulated to account for market failure modes such as externalities, imbalance of information, and natural monopoly, and if everyone can start from a relatively level playing field.
Big L libertarians are the only real libertarians, everyone else would do well to avoid the word like the plague. The big L guys are the ones who coined the phrase. Let them keep it.
Anarchist and anarchism are perfectly respectable words with a much longer history. It is only because of propaganda against anarchists as crazy bomb throwing anti government terrorists that people became afraid to use it. Well screw that. I am an anarchist, not a libertarian.
People who call themselves libertarians get no respect from me because they would obviously rather have their names associated with the likes of Bob Barr. They deny their true heritage as anarchists and know little to nothing about historical Anarchists such as Trotsky and Proudhon.
So, do you specialize in giving 'stuff you already know' lessons?
Almost snorfed soda on my keyboard when I read this.
I dislike libertarianism because I'm a Social Anarchist and libertarians are Individualist Anarchists and they got it almost but not quite right. They are like my evil twins.
I know it isn't really rational and I should look for common ground rather than lash out at them. But it's like CRACK to me, it feels so good, I can't help it. Ranting on the Internet is an outlet for me and may be the only thing keeping me from going totally postal in real life.;)
Erm, no. Serfs were essentially slaves who worked the land for a lord. They didn't have an income.
Our tax rate is less than many other first world countries, yet only here do you hear people complain about it. Blame the military industrial complex. In most other places, people actually feel like they are getting a bargain from the government for their tax dollar.
Ugh. I hope not. Giant squid supposedly tastes repulsive. From the wiki article:
Giant squid and some other large squid species maintain neutral buoyancy in seawater through an ammonium chloride solution which flows throughout their body and is lighter than seawater. This differs from the method of flotation used by fish, which involves a gas-filled swim bladder. The solution tastes somewhat like salmiakki and makes giant squid unattractive for general human consumption.
Well put. I obviously don't agree with your assessment of the 'nanny state,' and will be voting Democrat myself, but you make a good case as to why someone might want to vote libertarian. If the Dems piss me off one more time though, all bets are off.
In defense of social safety nets, I see them as a public good, an externality. Stability is necessary for free markets to function efficiently, and sensible safety nets foster stability. The question is, how to create and fund such safety nets without giving people a free ride.
Depends. The one hooker I knew had a 'just a job' mentality. The porn star was working her way through college. It was a little more than a job for her, she did like sex quite a bit. But she wasn't going to jump into bed with every pizza delivery guy and plumber who came round.
The strippers are the most interesting case, they were quite unusual. They worked at the Lusty Lady in San Francisco. I was helping start a 'free school' project where people could teach or take free classes. I was teaching Unix system administration.
The strippers were trying to unionize their strip club. They were all really smart, and tough, but they were also realists who knew their chances of succeeding were pretty slim. They came to me and asked if I could teach them systems administration, so they might have some other skill to fall back on if their unionizing attempt failed.
To make a long story slightly less long, it didn't fail, they unionized and then bought out the Lusty Lady, turning it into a worker cooperative. They like their job because they own their job and have both a say in how it is run, and a share in the profits.
No, you can't do that in any country right now. Most countries have a constitution and laws preventing such a thing. Way to display your ignorance.
As you are so ignorant, I feel it necessary to point out that I don't mean actual slavery so much as complete economic subjugation of the poor, which is something the rich have always worked towards and continue to work towards. And you libertards are the useful idiots who spread their propaganda.
Slavery is not as prevalent today because of the hard work and sacrifice of so many rights activists around the world, not because of market forces. And it does exist, especially in places with more libertarian policies than the US. Millions of people around the world are enslaved right now. Your lack of knowledge and callous disregard for enslaved peoples world wide is simply shocking.
It is certainly economically feasible to have a work force that has no other options but to work for you at whatever level of compensation you decide upon. It is quite feasible to use economic force to keep a population dependent on you. It is absolutely feasible to create monopoly and monopsony through economic means.
In libertopia, If I own the land you live on, I can say 'you may only travel on designated parts of my land.' I can legally imprison you, decide who can sell things to you, and decide who you can sell things to.
You can't leave, because that would be trespassing. Anyone wanting to sell to you would have to trespass. And that is quite profitable for the land owners, now isn't it.
Please try to refute my actual arguments rather than straw men, and please refrain from posting false information, and perhaps I won't have to repeat myself.
Libertarians want the freedom to economically oppress others. For instance, in libertopia, if I were rich and you were not, and I didn't like you, I could pay everyone not to do business with you and you would starve to death, all nice and legal.
Eventually, the rich would end up owning everyone else, because people would have no choice but to sell themselves into slavery. Without a government to balance the unbridled power of money in a free market, what would keep that from happening? I've already shown the 'invisible hand' is useless in stopping a determined rich person from oppressing a poor person, as he can always outbid the poor person. So what do you think would stop all this from happening? Wishful thinking? Good intentions? What?
Libertarianism isn't about freedom for everyone. It's about the freedom of those with money to economically oppress those without. Libertarianism is about the freedom to own slaves. That is why they want to get rid of all government regulation of industry, and all laws regarding commerce. That will lead to a new feudalism. The sad thing is, 99% of people who support libertarianism will end up being serfs if their plans ever succeeds. Libertarians think they are superior to everyone else and would end up being the new lords, but the new lords are already here, and they are laughing their asses off at the libertarians.
Ahhh, no. I've known a few porn stars, strippers, and prostitutes and they are nothing like their business persona. Meaning, the girl you pay for or watch on screen isn't actually like that in real life. Sorry.
Sure, there are women who really like sex. I know, I married one. But what they don't do is engage in random cat fights that inevitably lead to hot lesbian action. Unfortunately.:-/
We all know that it has been possible under certain conditions to traverse the northwest passage, by going around the ice. It wasn't always fully frozen, occasionally one could find a channel. That's a lot different than it being totally free from ice.
Sorry, you guys are the nuts. Global warming is real, destructive to the global economy, and caused by human beings. You don't want it to be true, so you will find 'evidence' to support your desired conclusions, no matter how scanty, poorly supported, anecdotal, or thoroughly debunked it is.
But it is true, the stupid hippies are right, you are wrong, it will impact you, and you will have to change your lifestyle. Your laziness and smug selfishness will not be allowed to destroy the planet, sorry.
So who shipped the most goods over the northwest passage? I mean, there must have been tones of companies doing it, right? Oh, yeah, we don't have any history about that, riiight.
No one shipped anything over the northwest passage. Why do you suppose that was?
You may want to read up a bit about how climate works in order not to appear the fool with statements like this. Pumping more heat into the climate makes it more extreme, more water evaporates and falls back as snow. Global warming can cause local cooling, as patterns of heat transfer change.
You are right, your posts are what faith, and not reason, look like. Now that your idiotic 'teh northwest passage was ice free before' shite has been debunked, (read the MANY replies further down) will you admit you are wrong again, or will you go find more spurious evidence to support your foregone conclusions?
You have made up your mind, and find evidence to suit you. You prattle on and on about being a free thinker, but you are intellectually lazy and dishonest. You don't give a damn about the truth, you just don't want to change your lifestyle, and you certainly don't want a bunch of damn hippies to be right.
But they are, and you will have to change your lifestyle. How ya like them apples?
The pygmy Bonobo chimps live with fewer predators and more resources than regular chimps. You know what they do with all their spare time? Lots and lots of very dirty primate sex.
Oh. My. GOD. You really are dumb. First, is stealing the only bad thing in the world? What a moron. I specifically said, it's not stealing but it is wrong. FAIL.
Next, NO ONE in this forum wants to do away with copyrights. We are not idiots. We know that the GPL depends on copyright. Ass.
Check it: rape isn't stealing, but it is wrong. Do we disagree on that? Murder also isn't stealing, but it is wrong. Copyright infringement isn't stealing, but it is wrong. See how that works? Is your view that every crime in the world is stealing?
How dense are you? I have a feeling you know that you are flat out wrong here, but you are too proud to back down. But it's juts making you look even stupider, give it a rest, just admit that you fucked up and drastically misinterpreted something.
No more, I'm done with you. It isn't worth it conversing with a fucking moron who is too proud to admit they are being an absolute idiot and alienating someone WHO AGREES WITH THEM. Copyright infringement is morally wrong, I said so before, but that's not good enough for you, it has to be exactly equivalent to stealing. Which is the most idiotic thing I've heard in a long time.
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You are confusing llibertarians with anarchists. No left leaning anarchist in America calls themselves libertarian. I know, I am a hippie anarcho-syndicalist, although I believe free markets can be efficient mechanisms for wealth creation if they are regulated to account for market failure modes such as externalities, imbalance of information, and natural monopoly, and if everyone can start from a relatively level playing field.
Big L libertarians are the only real libertarians, everyone else would do well to avoid the word like the plague. The big L guys are the ones who coined the phrase. Let them keep it.
Anarchist and anarchism are perfectly respectable words with a much longer history. It is only because of propaganda against anarchists as crazy bomb throwing anti government terrorists that people became afraid to use it. Well screw that. I am an anarchist, not a libertarian.
People who call themselves libertarians get no respect from me because they would obviously rather have their names associated with the likes of Bob Barr. They deny their true heritage as anarchists and know little to nothing about historical Anarchists such as Trotsky and Proudhon.
So, do you specialize in giving 'stuff you already know' lessons?
Almost snorfed soda on my keyboard when I read this.
I dislike libertarianism because I'm a Social Anarchist and libertarians are Individualist Anarchists and they got it almost but not quite right. They are like my evil twins.
I know it isn't really rational and I should look for common ground rather than lash out at them. But it's like CRACK to me, it feels so good, I can't help it. Ranting on the Internet is an outlet for me and may be the only thing keeping me from going totally postal in real life. ;)
Erm, no. Serfs were essentially slaves who worked the land for a lord. They didn't have an income.
Our tax rate is less than many other first world countries, yet only here do you hear people complain about it. Blame the military industrial complex. In most other places, people actually feel like they are getting a bargain from the government for their tax dollar.
Ugh. I hope not. Giant squid supposedly tastes repulsive. From the wiki article:
Giant squid and some other large squid species maintain neutral buoyancy in seawater through an ammonium chloride solution which flows throughout their body and is lighter than seawater. This differs from the method of flotation used by fish, which involves a gas-filled swim bladder. The solution tastes somewhat like salmiakki and makes giant squid unattractive for general human consumption.
Well put. I obviously don't agree with your assessment of the 'nanny state,' and will be voting Democrat myself, but you make a good case as to why someone might want to vote libertarian. If the Dems piss me off one more time though, all bets are off.
In defense of social safety nets, I see them as a public good, an externality. Stability is necessary for free markets to function efficiently, and sensible safety nets foster stability. The question is, how to create and fund such safety nets without giving people a free ride.
Depends. The one hooker I knew had a 'just a job' mentality. The porn star was working her way through college. It was a little more than a job for her, she did like sex quite a bit. But she wasn't going to jump into bed with every pizza delivery guy and plumber who came round.
The strippers are the most interesting case, they were quite unusual. They worked at the Lusty Lady in San Francisco. I was helping start a 'free school' project where people could teach or take free classes. I was teaching Unix system administration.
The strippers were trying to unionize their strip club. They were all really smart, and tough, but they were also realists who knew their chances of succeeding were pretty slim. They came to me and asked if I could teach them systems administration, so they might have some other skill to fall back on if their unionizing attempt failed.
To make a long story slightly less long, it didn't fail, they unionized and then bought out the Lusty Lady, turning it into a worker cooperative. They like their job because they own their job and have both a say in how it is run, and a share in the profits.
No, you can't do that in any country right now. Most countries have a constitution and laws preventing such a thing. Way to display your ignorance.
As you are so ignorant, I feel it necessary to point out that I don't mean actual slavery so much as complete economic subjugation of the poor, which is something the rich have always worked towards and continue to work towards. And you libertards are the useful idiots who spread their propaganda.
Slavery is not as prevalent today because of the hard work and sacrifice of so many rights activists around the world, not because of market forces. And it does exist, especially in places with more libertarian policies than the US. Millions of people around the world are enslaved right now. Your lack of knowledge and callous disregard for enslaved peoples world wide is simply shocking.
It is certainly economically feasible to have a work force that has no other options but to work for you at whatever level of compensation you decide upon. It is quite feasible to use economic force to keep a population dependent on you. It is absolutely feasible to create monopoly and monopsony through economic means.
In libertopia, If I own the land you live on, I can say 'you may only travel on designated parts of my land.' I can legally imprison you, decide who can sell things to you, and decide who you can sell things to.
You can't leave, because that would be trespassing. Anyone wanting to sell to you would have to trespass. And that is quite profitable for the land owners, now isn't it.
Please try to refute my actual arguments rather than straw men, and please refrain from posting false information, and perhaps I won't have to repeat myself.
Libertarians want the freedom to economically oppress others. For instance, in libertopia, if I were rich and you were not, and I didn't like you, I could pay everyone not to do business with you and you would starve to death, all nice and legal.
Eventually, the rich would end up owning everyone else, because people would have no choice but to sell themselves into slavery. Without a government to balance the unbridled power of money in a free market, what would keep that from happening? I've already shown the 'invisible hand' is useless in stopping a determined rich person from oppressing a poor person, as he can always outbid the poor person. So what do you think would stop all this from happening? Wishful thinking? Good intentions? What?
Libertarianism isn't about freedom for everyone. It's about the freedom of those with money to economically oppress those without. Libertarianism is about the freedom to own slaves. That is why they want to get rid of all government regulation of industry, and all laws regarding commerce. That will lead to a new feudalism. The sad thing is, 99% of people who support libertarianism will end up being serfs if their plans ever succeeds. Libertarians think they are superior to everyone else and would end up being the new lords, but the new lords are already here, and they are laughing their asses off at the libertarians.
Ahhh, no. I've known a few porn stars, strippers, and prostitutes and they are nothing like their business persona. Meaning, the girl you pay for or watch on screen isn't actually like that in real life. Sorry.
Sure, there are women who really like sex. I know, I married one. But what they don't do is engage in random cat fights that inevitably lead to hot lesbian action. Unfortunately. :-/
And I wasn't?
I don't think you've ever actually had a conversation with a real female human.
PROTIP: Real women don't actually behave like girls in porn, anime, or action flicks.
My favorite JLR quote:
"Philip Woolston and Apple Computers sexually assaulted me in my dreams and not in real life, I can't sue a dream."
We all know that it has been possible under certain conditions to traverse the northwest passage, by going around the ice. It wasn't always fully frozen, occasionally one could find a channel. That's a lot different than it being totally free from ice.
Sorry, you guys are the nuts. Global warming is real, destructive to the global economy, and caused by human beings. You don't want it to be true, so you will find 'evidence' to support your desired conclusions, no matter how scanty, poorly supported, anecdotal, or thoroughly debunked it is.
But it is true, the stupid hippies are right, you are wrong, it will impact you, and you will have to change your lifestyle. Your laziness and smug selfishness will not be allowed to destroy the planet, sorry.
Uh oh, somebody call the whaaaaambulance, we're going to need to perform a humor transplant here!
DNS cache poisoning is a myth cooked up by the liberal media and DNS scientists to implement their anti capitalist agenda.
And if it isn't a myth, then it certainly isn't man made, it's a natural phenomenon and there's nothing we can do about it.
So who shipped the most goods over the northwest passage? I mean, there must have been tones of companies doing it, right? Oh, yeah, we don't have any history about that, riiight.
No one shipped anything over the northwest passage. Why do you suppose that was?
You may want to read up a bit about how climate works in order not to appear the fool with statements like this. Pumping more heat into the climate makes it more extreme, more water evaporates and falls back as snow. Global warming can cause local cooling, as patterns of heat transfer change.
You are right, your posts are what faith, and not reason, look like. Now that your idiotic 'teh northwest passage was ice free before' shite has been debunked, (read the MANY replies further down) will you admit you are wrong again, or will you go find more spurious evidence to support your foregone conclusions?
You have made up your mind, and find evidence to suit you. You prattle on and on about being a free thinker, but you are intellectually lazy and dishonest. You don't give a damn about the truth, you just don't want to change your lifestyle, and you certainly don't want a bunch of damn hippies to be right.
But they are, and you will have to change your lifestyle. How ya like them apples?
You are acting as if the parent post was replying to a reasoned argument. Please explain how the grandparent post was in any way valid.
Or few. For one the size of a Volkswagen beetle.
Hog's heads or naked chicks?
The pygmy Bonobo chimps live with fewer predators and more resources than regular chimps. You know what they do with all their spare time? Lots and lots of very dirty primate sex.
No, we question your sanity because you make shit up, get histrionic, and claim that people want to throw you in jail.
Seriously, you're a nutter and you need help. You've got a persecution complex.
Oh. My. GOD. You really are dumb. First, is stealing the only bad thing in the world? What a moron. I specifically said, it's not stealing but it is wrong. FAIL.
Next, NO ONE in this forum wants to do away with copyrights. We are not idiots. We know that the GPL depends on copyright. Ass.
Check it: rape isn't stealing, but it is wrong. Do we disagree on that? Murder also isn't stealing, but it is wrong. Copyright infringement isn't stealing, but it is wrong. See how that works? Is your view that every crime in the world is stealing?
How dense are you? I have a feeling you know that you are flat out wrong here, but you are too proud to back down. But it's juts making you look even stupider, give it a rest, just admit that you fucked up and drastically misinterpreted something.
No more, I'm done with you. It isn't worth it conversing with a fucking moron who is too proud to admit they are being an absolute idiot and alienating someone WHO AGREES WITH THEM. Copyright infringement is morally wrong, I said so before, but that's not good enough for you, it has to be exactly equivalent to stealing. Which is the most idiotic thing I've heard in a long time.
Fuck off.
I had a friend with flipper arms in high school, she said it was from thalidomide. Maybe she was secretly a... Canadian? I'd try to hide that too.