"...Some of our data is classified..." I too work for a government contractor. Some of your thinking is flawed. Can you please explain to me why ANY of your -->classified-- data belongs in the cloud? Step away from the kook-aid.
Describing a blackberry as "Usable and Useful" in this day and age is a joke right? I unfortunately have been assigned a BB Bold where I work... It is the biggest pile of dog shit EVER. It falls far short of iPhones and Androids. The keyboard sucks as the alt and shift keys are reversed (who the FUCK thought of that? I want to kick that guy in the fucking balls)... So the reversed keys is a PITA by itself but you add the ancient plastic keyboard... fuck it makes typing anything beyond lower case text painfully frustrating.
I could write a book on how fucking dumb this curse upon me is, complete with detailed explanations for each point... I am getting too pissed off to keep going. That fucking pile of horse shit SUCKS.
That is more than the mainstream artists are making now believe it or not. Considering that an average royalty payment is between 5 and 15 percent of the CD sale. If the artist releases 5 CDs the artist would make more and the consumer(you and I) would pay out less. check out www.ascap.com for more info.
I would have to agree entirely with your point! There have been statements on this site many many times before that musicians shouldnt recieve any kind of re-imbursement for their recordings, that they should tour instead to make money. As a musician myself who is working on releasing his own material for FREE, I can tell you that my low budget(Digital not Analog tape)recording is still going to cost me 10,000.00 to release my music via MP3.I have played on CDs before so I cant deal with a recording that isnt clean. I am not looking to make it back or to make a profit. It means a great deal to me that people can hear my work with no monitary obsticles. However, there are some people who cant do this as easly as I can. This is where my argument comes in that IF there is a requested fair priced (like 6 or 8 bucks for an entire CD)charge for good music, we should pay it and support the artist that we enjoy so that the artist can not only continue to create, but to possibly augment their abilities to record in future releases from OUR contributions. I for one would like to see a revolution in the way music is distributed and hope that MP3 is the catalist as it appears to be. Maybe the choice that musicians now have, will allow some really great music to be heard that I have been hearing in the bars around my area!
Who will pay for the thousands of dollars in studio costs for a band that dosnt have any money? You cant book a nationwide tour on an unknown band. Sure there are exceptions, but statisticly speaking... There are a lot of talented bands who would have no hope of ever releasing anything if they werent supplied with the cost of printing a CD. This is the primary reason that record companies appeared in the first place(before they turned into corporate musical garbage houses interested in money only, not truly talented acts)
Actually You are right on with where I am at. I do application management during the day. I do music for myself. I am really excited about MP3s in the industry because I dont have to sign away the rights to my work! MP3 has totally changed what I view as the music world.
I have seen way too many of my friends who cant do anything else struggle to the point of just doing covers and making a measly living. I make it a point to help artists of ANY kind by purchasing when there is an asking price as I am sure many people do.
My complaint is that a lot of people in this world think that ALL music should be free and that is great. Except that recording studio time for those who cant afford it is almost impossible to obtain.
My point that I continue to make to some of these people is that SoMEBODY has to pay for studio time. If a working musician cant afford it. There will be no music from them distributed. Sadly most people do not take garage tapes serioulsy. How many times have you had somebody listen to your tape that you made, and only mentioned the fact that the sound quality is terrible when its just a "sketchpad recording" ? I would go as far as saying most people when not confronted with the musician standing there,wont listen to it.
I have personally seen people trash music because the sound quality isnt pristine. It happens by the same people who say they would listen for its musical merits. To a non musician, it means "does it have a good beat and can I dance to it?"
I will be checking out your music... I will be releasing my entire CD on MP3 when we are finished... It will prob be 1 track at a time since my entire band works for a living. There isnt much on the site yet but keep checking within the next month if you want.
You obviously dont understand what I am saying either. It amazes me to see so many people who dont know how to comprehend what the REAL subject is.
If a musician only knows how to do music... and has been trained to play music. How does he make money???(and dont give me that father story about choosing some other feild, some people can only do music) Tell me if you dont agree with me... explain to me how a musician can live if he dosnt get paid. Now that wasnt my point. My point AGAIN because you nor anyone else has been able to understand this is:
FACT: To release a PROFESSIONAL CD cost an extraordinary amount of money, this cannot be equated with school or equipment for the simple reason that most likely the musicians already have paid for that too. (For example, a good drum setup can cost over 5,000.00) So that would equate for YOUR school and training time and your computer... And just like Programmers spending different amounts of money on their equipment, musicians do too.
Lets say for instance AFTER you have purchased all the nessecary equipment and software and you already know how to program you decide to create and compile a program that YOU will distribute over the web. How much does that cost you(lets leave your pay time out...because studio musicians make over 100$ an hour so its a useless point to make that your time costs you.) How much does it cost you to release your own professional program to the web? From personal experience the cost is VERY small. Do not add in marketing as cost either because I am not including this as it will just lengthen the musician side as well.
Now lets turn this around shall we? I have been a musician for 17 years. This accounts for training in school and college and 10s of thousands of dollars in equipment. I have honed in my skills and am now a decent musician. I have created music I want to distribute on the web just like your program. OK.
In order to be taken seriously by the community, I MUST record in a studio. How much does a good CD cost to cut?(I am talking REAL pro quality, not your friend next door.) IT can and does cost THOUSANDS if not TENS of THousands of dollars. This is probably an astronomical amount more that it cost you to create a program in your spare time.
If you do computers for a living... Why dont you do it for free?
Because you will starve Period
How dare you or anyone else try to imply that musicans skills are useless or not important enough to pay for. Given that I cannot live off of it because most people think musicians should work for free. I now work in the computer industry and now can afford to give my music away for free because I would rather more people enjoy it.
Telling a working musician they should work for free is like telling YOU that YOU should work for free in whatever it is that you do.
If you think its not the same then you are a self centered jerk who dosnt deserve to ever listen to anything as wonderful as music!
Musicians have to work just as hard for a HELL of a lot less than you do and you have some nerve cheap skating out of paying them for their HARD earned work
Just because you hang out with sombody or give them money dosnt give you a clue on what they do or how its done. God your arrogant!
Actually I do know what it is about and its NOT about money. If you really have friends that make as little as you are implying(lent them money) then you would not be so militant about free music. I would have to assume that you are a liar or a horrible friend. The point that you have refused to see over and over again is that the artists you listen to CANT KEEP MAKING MUSIC AVAILIBLE TO YOU IF THEY ARENT GETTING PAID AT LEAST ENOUGH TO DO IT. If you are so sure about musicians giving up their talents for free... why dont you pick up an instrument...give up your job, and try to do it yourself? I know for a fact first of all you must be incapable of being able to play music and second, you would starve. My feelings about how musicians are discounted covers the feelings of MOST artists, I know this because I am one of them and I talk with others about this all the time. I challenge you to go to a music store and talk to sombody about how much they make, and talk them into giving away their music for free... If your right... At least a few people will say:" Gosh your right, even though it will cost me 10,000$ to make a real CD, I can borrow that with the 250.00 I make a week, then I can give the CD away for cost, then tour and make it all back!" This person would either be lying, or Tom Petty.
You seem to be sombody who thinks he knows more about music than a musician, Guess what... You dont know the slightest bit. You wouldnt know real music if it bit you in the ass.
I infact do computers for a living(somthing safer.. you seem to open butt and insert head a lot... you should think about what you say more, I fear for you if you speak this dumb at work... good luck keeping a job), and make a great living at that. I do it because I dont want to be a slave to the recording industry. AND YES I HAVE ALREADY BEEN THERE CONTRACT AND ALL.
Bottom line:
Keep your mouth shut until you UNDERSTAND what the issue is. What you and these other people are talking about is PAY TO PLAY(ever hear of it?). If a musician has to pay for studio time, and he wants to do music for a living, he dosnt eat! Dont make me explain it again. Obviously you are imature, unwilling to give up even when you are way over your head and have a problem.. Fix it then lets talk.
no sorry try again. First... I never said sombody was more skilled than sombody else.. just that they have spent their entire lives doing this.... Learn to READ.
Second.. After School, after all the equipment for programming has been purchased... Does it cost the independant artist(software programmer)upwards of 50,000 for a great program? NO!!! The biggest expense is time to code. For musicians.. after they have purchased their rigs(computers), School(school) they STILL have to pay out to have their ideas recorded. You need to keep quiet when you dont know all sides Please dont comment on recording when you dont know anything about it.
And BTW... I and One other band member are financing the entire album, then releasing it for FREE on the net, thank-you....
This will be a 100% loss of thousands of dollars if you look at the financing.. we do it because we love music. If we make money.. thats great. How much will you lose if one program you write for free isnt utilized?
You are fooling yourselves if you think that not paying for music will make music some how better. The exact oppisite will happen. How can you expect artists to spend thousands of dollars in education and training knowing that they will have to give away thier product when they have created somthing wonderful. Unlike other skills that you can learn in a few years... most good musicians have to put MANY MANY MANY years and more money than I think you are aware of to be able to play like they do. How dare anyone to think that musicians skills are not worth paying for. If musicians stop getting paid for using their skills, how will they support studio work? A good album costs more than you think to record.
If you think that you shouldnt pay for music.. dont listen to it... If you think thats harsh, just remember that you dont pay their bills and you dont pay the recording costs. There are NO decent FREE studios that I know of.
Believe me, I had to get a regular job along with thousands of other truly talented people because I wanted to own my own music equipment, be able to record, live in a house, not a cardboard box.
This point has been made before, however not all musicians can tour and not all musicians can afford to put out a free album. Where does that leave them? How many musical projects can survive with no possiblility of making back money spent in the studio? I will tell you one thing.. studio time is not a couple of bucks an hour. Your idea is seriously flawed because it will create an endless loop:
I have this music...but I cant afford studio time unless I tour, if I tour I will most likly not make any money because my name isnt big because I cant afford studio time.
Too many people think that musicians should give away their services free after they have spent THOUSANDS or in my case 10s of thousands of dollars on education and equipment. I am lucky that I have the money to own my own studio. But I dont do music for a living any more because MOST PEOPLE THINK MUSIC IS NOT WORTH PAYING FOR. This is happening to just about every musician I know. And it has nothing to do with good musicianship or creativity...HELLO NIRVANA.
Its time for some of you to realize that musicians need money too, especially if you expect a good product. Thats exactly why the record industry took hold... to allow good acts with no money to be heard.
Slashdot Mirror
"...Some of our data is classified..." I too work for a government contractor. Some of your thinking is flawed. Can you please explain to me why ANY of your -->classified-- data belongs in the cloud? Step away from the kook-aid.
Describing a blackberry as "Usable and Useful" in this day and age is a joke right? I unfortunately have been assigned a BB Bold where I work... It is the biggest pile of dog shit EVER. It falls far short of iPhones and Androids. The keyboard sucks as the alt and shift keys are reversed (who the FUCK thought of that? I want to kick that guy in the fucking balls)... So the reversed keys is a PITA by itself but you add the ancient plastic keyboard... fuck it makes typing anything beyond lower case text painfully frustrating.
I could write a book on how fucking dumb this curse upon me is, complete with detailed explanations for each point... I am getting too pissed off to keep going. That fucking pile of horse shit SUCKS.
That is more than the mainstream artists are making now believe it or not. Considering that an average royalty payment is between 5 and 15 percent of the CD sale. If the artist releases 5 CDs the artist would make more and the consumer(you and I) would pay out less. check out www.ascap.com for more info.
I would have to agree entirely with your point! There have been statements on this site many many times before that musicians shouldnt recieve any kind of re-imbursement for their recordings, that they should tour instead to make money. As a musician myself who is working on releasing his own material for FREE, I can tell you that my low budget(Digital not Analog tape)recording is still going to cost me 10,000.00 to release my music via MP3.I have played on CDs before so I cant deal with a recording that isnt clean. I am not looking to make it back or to make a profit. It means a great deal to me that people can hear my work with no monitary obsticles. However, there are some people who cant do this as easly as I can. This is where my argument comes in that IF there is a requested fair priced (like 6 or 8 bucks for an entire CD)charge for good music, we should pay it and support the artist that we enjoy so that the artist can not only continue to create, but to possibly augment their abilities to record in future releases from OUR contributions. I for one would like to see a revolution in the way music is distributed and hope that MP3 is the catalist as it appears to be.
Maybe the choice that musicians now have, will allow some really great music to be heard that I have been hearing in the bars around my area!
Who will pay for the thousands of dollars in studio costs for a band that dosnt have any money? You cant book a nationwide tour on an unknown band. Sure there are exceptions, but statisticly speaking... There are a lot of talented bands who would have no hope of ever releasing anything if they werent supplied with the cost of printing a CD. This is the primary reason that record companies appeared in the first place(before they turned into corporate musical garbage houses interested in money only, not truly talented acts)
Actually You are right on with where I am at. I do application management during the day. I do music for myself. I am really excited about MP3s in the industry because I dont have to sign away the rights to my work! MP3 has totally changed what I view as the music world.
I have seen way too many of my friends who cant do anything else struggle to the point of just doing covers and making a measly living. I make it a point to help artists of ANY kind by purchasing when there is an asking price as I am sure many people do.
My complaint is that a lot of people in this world think that ALL music should be free and that is great. Except that recording studio time for those who cant afford it is almost impossible to obtain.
My point that I continue to make to some of these people is that SoMEBODY has to pay for studio time. If a working musician cant afford it. There will be no music from them distributed. Sadly most people do not take garage tapes serioulsy. How many times have you had somebody listen to your tape that you made, and only mentioned the fact that the sound quality is terrible when its just a "sketchpad recording" ? I would go as far as saying most people when not confronted with the musician standing there,wont listen to it.
I have personally seen people trash music because the sound quality isnt pristine. It happens by the same people who say they would listen for its musical merits. To a non musician, it means "does it have a good beat and can I dance to it?"
I will be checking out your music... I will be releasing my entire CD on MP3 when we are finished... It will prob be 1 track at a time since my entire band works for a living. There isnt much on the site yet but keep checking within the next month if you want.
Check it out at http://www.javacat.net/
You obviously dont understand what I am saying either. It amazes me to see so many people who dont know how to comprehend what the REAL subject is.
If a musician only knows how to do music... and has been trained to play music. How does he make money???(and dont give me that father story about choosing some other feild, some people can only do music) Tell me if you dont agree with me... explain to me how a musician can live if he dosnt get paid. Now that wasnt my point. My point AGAIN because you nor anyone else has been able to understand this is:
FACT: To release a PROFESSIONAL CD cost an extraordinary amount of money, this cannot be equated with school or equipment for the simple reason that most likely the musicians already have paid for that too. (For example, a good drum setup can cost over 5,000.00) So that would equate for YOUR school and training time and your computer... And just like Programmers spending different amounts of money on their equipment, musicians do too.
Lets say for instance AFTER you have purchased all the nessecary equipment and software and you already know how to program you decide to create and compile a program that YOU will distribute over the web. How much does that cost you(lets leave your pay time out...because studio musicians make over 100$ an hour so its a useless point to make that your time costs you.) How much does it cost you to release your own professional program to the web? From personal experience the cost is VERY small. Do not add in marketing as cost either because I am not including this as it will just lengthen the musician side as well.
Now lets turn this around shall we? I have been a musician for 17 years. This accounts for training in school and college and 10s of thousands of dollars in equipment. I have honed in my skills and am now a decent musician. I have created music I want to distribute on the web just like your program. OK.
In order to be taken seriously by the community, I MUST record in a studio. How much does a good CD cost to cut?(I am talking REAL pro quality, not your friend next door.) IT can and does cost THOUSANDS if not TENS of THousands of dollars. This is probably an astronomical amount more that it cost you to create a program in your spare time.
If you do computers for a living... Why dont you do it for free?
Because you will starve Period
How dare you or anyone else try to imply that musicans skills are useless or not important enough to pay for. Given that I cannot live off of it because most people think musicians should work for free. I now work in the computer industry and now can afford to give my music away for free because I would rather more people enjoy it.
Telling a working musician they should work for free is like telling YOU that YOU should work for free in whatever it is that you do.
If you think its not the same then you are a self centered jerk who dosnt deserve to ever listen to anything as wonderful as music!
Musicians have to work just as hard for a HELL of a lot less than you do and you have some nerve cheap skating out of paying them for their HARD earned work
SHAME ON YOU!
Just because you hang out with sombody or give them money dosnt give you a clue on what they do or how its done. God your arrogant!
Actually I do know what it is about and its NOT about money. If you really have friends that make as little as you are implying(lent them money) then you would not be so militant about free music. I would have to assume that you are a liar or a horrible friend. The point that you have refused to see over and over again is that the artists you listen to CANT KEEP MAKING MUSIC AVAILIBLE TO YOU IF THEY ARENT GETTING PAID AT LEAST ENOUGH TO DO IT. If you are so sure about musicians giving up their talents for free... why dont you pick up an instrument...give up your job, and try to do it yourself? I know for a fact first of all you must be incapable of being able to play music and second, you would starve. My feelings about how musicians are discounted covers the feelings of MOST artists, I know this because I am one of them and I talk with others about this all the time. I challenge you to go to a music store and talk to sombody about how much they make, and talk them into giving away their music for free... If your right... At least a few people will say:" Gosh your right, even though it will cost me 10,000$ to make a real CD, I can borrow that with the 250.00 I make a week, then I can give the CD away for cost, then tour and make it all back!" This person would either be lying, or Tom Petty.
You seem to be sombody who thinks he knows more about music than a musician, Guess what... You dont know the slightest bit. You wouldnt know real music if it bit you in the ass.
I infact do computers for a living(somthing safer.. you seem to open butt and insert head a lot... you should think about what you say more, I fear for you if you speak this dumb at work... good luck keeping a job), and make a great living at that. I do it because I dont want to be a slave to the recording industry. AND YES I HAVE ALREADY BEEN THERE CONTRACT AND ALL.
Bottom line:
Keep your mouth shut until you UNDERSTAND what the issue is. What you and these other people are talking about is PAY TO PLAY(ever hear of it?). If a musician has to pay for studio time, and he wants to do music for a living, he dosnt eat! Dont make me explain it again. Obviously you are imature, unwilling to give up even when you are way over your head and have a problem.. Fix it then lets talk.
no sorry try again. First... I never said sombody was more skilled than sombody else.. just that they have spent their entire lives doing this .... Learn to READ.
Second.. After School, after all the equipment for programming has been purchased... Does it cost the independant artist(software programmer)upwards of 50,000 for a great program? NO!!! The biggest expense is time to code. For musicians.. after they have purchased their rigs(computers), School(school) they STILL have to pay out to have their ideas recorded. You need to keep quiet when you dont know all sides
Please dont comment on recording when you dont know anything about it.
And BTW... I and One other band member are financing the entire album, then releasing it for FREE on the net, thank-you....
This will be a 100% loss of thousands of dollars if you look at the financing.. we do it because we love music. If we make money.. thats great. How much will you lose if one program you write for free isnt utilized?
THINK before you speak.
You people kill me.
You are fooling yourselves if you think that not paying for music will make music some how better. The exact oppisite will happen. How can you expect artists to spend thousands of dollars in education and training knowing that they will have to give away thier product when they have created somthing wonderful. Unlike other skills that you can learn in a few years... most good musicians have to put MANY MANY MANY years and more money than I think you are aware of to be able to play like they do. How dare anyone to think that musicians skills are not worth paying for. If musicians stop getting paid for using their skills, how will they support studio work? A good album costs more than you think to record.
If you think that you shouldnt pay for music.. dont listen to it... If you think thats harsh, just remember that you dont pay their bills and you dont pay the recording costs. There are NO decent FREE studios that I know of.
Believe me, I had to get a regular job along with thousands of other truly talented people because I wanted to own my own music equipment, be able to record, live in a house, not a cardboard box.
A frustrated artist.
This point has been made before, however not all musicians can tour and not all musicians can afford to put out a free album. Where does that leave them? How many musical projects can survive with no possiblility of making back money spent in the studio? I will tell you one thing.. studio time is not a couple of bucks an hour. Your idea is seriously flawed because it will create an endless loop:
I have this music...but I cant afford studio time unless I tour, if I tour I will most likly not make any money because my name isnt big because I cant afford studio time.
Too many people think that musicians should give away their services free after they have spent THOUSANDS or in my case 10s of thousands of dollars on education and equipment. I am lucky that I have the money to own my own studio. But I dont do music for a living any more because MOST PEOPLE THINK MUSIC IS NOT WORTH PAYING FOR. This is happening to just about every musician I know. And it has nothing to do with good musicianship or creativity...HELLO NIRVANA.
Its time for some of you to realize that musicians need money too, especially if you expect a good product. Thats exactly why the record industry took hold... to allow good acts with no money to be heard.