OMG, you are an idiot. any of those companies could have done a cost analyses, or not discounted below cost, or limited the number of coupons.
if a small business owner can't do basic ROI in there head on the fly, they are going to have a hard time succeeding. How can you own a small business and not know the general costs of your product?
on other news: As some who watched several global and critical systems fail during Y2K testing, I assure you it was not bogus. a lot of money and hard work took care of it. The fact that these multi million dollars system had duplicate systems just for testing should indicate how critical they are.
There were, of course, stupid medial alarmist making shit up. Like plains will fall out of the sky and what not.
There as no scam, I'm not sure why you think there was. He made people offers,and then he delivered what he said he would. So, no it isn't a scam. "Groupon was cooking the books, losing money but showing profitability stop making stuff up you idiot.
People start business to make money and become wealthy? the Deuce you say!
Middle managers work, and work hard. A lot of hours, organizing, planning, setting goals, creating CPM for projects, setting priorities. They are the group that give you the details and what goals to focus on to meet larger overall goals. I've been middle management, and screw that noise. I went back into programming where I don't work as hard.
you're an idiot. How do you get data without meeting? make decisions? get information? contract negotiations, bidding? meeting are work. The fact that you don't have the skills to run quality meeting makes you think they aren't real work.
Paper? some of the paper is called a check, they push to you. Other papers are called contracts, and they give the company a way to make money.
20 engineers without management or meeting equates to going out of business.
Its not work. That's a mistake. its value add. If I could make your company a billion dollars in 1 second, wouldn't I be worth paying 100 million to do that work? a gross example of how 'work' isn't a comparable thing between job types.
If I spend all day on the golf course 5 days a week, but manage to score contracts is that work?
You are clueless. Do you even know what CEOs do? Of do you think they sit in their offices and watch porn all day? I think the most of them are vastly over paid, but don't think they work any less hard then employees, or bring no value to a company.
If I can get a deal in a county that save the company 10,000,000 dollars, how is that not adding to the value of the company? If I can get talks on an acquisition, how does that not add value? If I can make a deal with a supplier that saves od millions of dollars, that adds value to the company. If I can get a stock increase by walking on stage and making an emotional argument about how excited we are about our product, how does that not add value?
If I could make you a million dollars, but you have to pay me 300,000 after you get it would it be worth it? Even if it took my 1 second to do it?
"Do you honestly believe there is even one respect in which the CEO should be earning more than an engineer?" Yes. The CEO who built the company. If you don't think getting funding, handling employees, making business contact for future expansion, etc.. isn't hard, then you are delusional.
IF a CEO, any CEO, can use contacts and savvy to buy another company, or market a product, then yes, they are worth more then an Engineer. Dealing with over seas officials, time to market, trades. That is all hard work and makes a company profitable. Thus able to hire an engineer to make things.
If being an engineer alone was all it took, then there would be no upper management.
" If so, everyone would do the easiest job with the lowest investment required" history says other wise.
Sure, you may be a lazy couch potato, but most people like to do things, even if they are hard.
I bet there are people who would love to build robots to do all those thing people wouldn't want to do.
Money is a handcuff. I can't change and go into robotic engineering without have my salary slashed. Something that would put a terrible burden onto my family.
I don't know of a solution that doesn't involve mass produce general purpose robots. It seems the best solution is a regulated free market..for now.
I know a lot of Doctors. ALL of them are interested in treating, and healing the patient. It's an expensive trade, and they can get paid reasonably well.
If you want to talk about people providing 'medicine' and 'medical treatments' just for making money, look at acupuncturists, naturalpaths, and chiropractors.
The pretend to heal people to get rich.
You can like fancy cars AND want to medically treat people.
Who are you to say a Doctor is more important then food preparation? Or should earn more money?
"Don't you realize that if an economy were managed in such a way you effectively create huge disincentive for people to become doctors? " False. The Soviet union had no problem producing Doctors. Do you know why? Education was free. If you had the mental discipline to go through the education process, you could become a doctor.
Same with engineers and physicist . I know the US spent decades poo-pooing the soviet union, but there was a lot of good things that happened as well. A LOT of educated scientist, engineers, and doctors came from that period, as did a lot of poets and writers.
If the US had done business with Russia, and helped them have a more open market when they asked, the world would have been better off.
that's number 3 on the reasons to hate Reagan
I am a US citizen old enough to remember duck and cover drills in grade schools.
The French have a higher quality of life then most people in the US. But, hey wanting a livable wage is a great sin in the US.
If the person with the money doesn't want to do it, they will agree to that. TO expand you lame ass example: If the person clipping your grass cost 300 dollars, but you made 1000 dollars from having your lawn clipped, wouldn't it be worth it?
No, but if he let the government computer network languish in government funded institution, or only allow corporation to use it, there would be a lot fewer coding jobs.
In the 70's and 80's PC computer programming in large corporation weren't being pushed becasue they did see the need, not becasue the feared anything. Think. If IBM new enough about where the PC was going to be scared, they would have leveraged them much better.
YOU may have hit a bad patch in your career, but there are a lot of exciting things going on right now. Robotics is growing very quickly, Smart home apps have a lot of potential. Something most apps are utilizing, so there is a market for a clever programmer. Social media still has some growth left. What we are using now is pretty primitive compared to the power available.
I'm writing predictive software, which is pretty cool.
Fortunately, you can start coding an a used 50 dollar computer. If you look, you can find a 7 year old computer someone just wants out of their garage.
I bet if a 15 year old showed up at a computer club, someone would give him an old computer, maybe help the kid assemble one out of old parts.
kit's great if what you do to make money is also fun to you, but that's not the only factor.
Money is a good one. Generally, coding is less fun an usually boring for me. I used to do it all the time..but now I do it just for money. I do it well, I work hard, and my customers ar all very happy with my work. But when I walk out the door I'm don't want to go anywhere near a semi colon~
The only exception these days is if my kids want to do some script or something for a game. I love that.
Frankly, If I could make the same money, I'd spend my days playing my bass and building rockets. I am aware no one has ever found a way to do it, but I would love to live in a world where what you are paid was based on age, and not what you do..just as long as you are doing something. start a base income at 18, peak at 50, slope down to retirement level at 65.
Slashdot Mirror
OMG, you are an idiot.
any of those companies could have done a cost analyses, or not discounted below cost, or limited the number of coupons.
if a small business owner can't do basic ROI in there head on the fly, they are going to have a hard time succeeding. How can you own a small business and not know the general costs of your product?
on other news:
As some who watched several global and critical systems fail during Y2K testing, I assure you it was not bogus. a lot of money and hard work took care of it.
The fact that these multi million dollars system had duplicate systems just for testing should indicate how critical they are.
There were, of course, stupid medial alarmist making shit up. Like plains will fall out of the sky and what not.
Do you keep cutting and pasting that?
Not all business lost money on every sale. Stupid ones that offered to much did. That's not Groupons fault, and Groupon isn't predetory.
Yes, some idiot decides they are going to sell cup caked to an unlimited number of people for a dime, they are going to lose money.
Of course, it never occurs to them to put a volume limit, or simply close earl;y when they realize they have made a mistake.
It's all groupon's fault.
I talk about this to every place I use a groupon at.
There as no scam, I'm not sure why you think there was. He made people offers,and then he delivered what he said he would. So, no it isn't a scam.
"Groupon was cooking the books, losing money but showing profitability
stop making stuff up you idiot.
People start business to make money and become wealthy? the Deuce you say!
OMG, referencing an old game for humor! Computer nerds would never act that way!
hahaha. most of them go out of business and go bankrupt.
Most owners work more. They are usually small companies and guess who need to take care of all the details?
You should try it some time, it's hell.
oh, so now you move the goal post? fine.
Middle managers work, and work hard. A lot of hours, organizing, planning, setting goals, creating CPM for projects, setting priorities. They are the group that give you the details and what goals to focus on to meet larger overall goals.
I've been middle management, and screw that noise. I went back into programming where I don't work as hard.
you're an idiot.
How do you get data without meeting? make decisions? get information? contract negotiations, bidding?
meeting are work. The fact that you don't have the skills to run quality meeting makes you think they aren't real work.
Paper? some of the paper is called a check, they push to you. Other papers are called contracts, and they give the company a way to make money.
20 engineers without management or meeting equates to going out of business.
Its not work. That's a mistake. its value add.
If I could make your company a billion dollars in 1 second, wouldn't I be worth paying 100 million to do that work?
a gross example of how 'work' isn't a comparable thing between job types.
If I spend all day on the golf course 5 days a week, but manage to score contracts is that work?
You are clueless. Do you even know what CEOs do? Of do you think they sit in their offices and watch porn all day?
I think the most of them are vastly over paid, but don't think they work any less hard then employees, or bring no value to a company.
If I can get a deal in a county that save the company 10,000,000 dollars, how is that not adding to the value of the company?
If I can get talks on an acquisition, how does that not add value?
If I can make a deal with a supplier that saves od millions of dollars, that adds value to the company.
If I can get a stock increase by walking on stage and making an emotional argument about how excited we are about our product, how does that not add value?
If I could make you a million dollars, but you have to pay me 300,000 after you get it would it be worth it? Even if it took my 1 second to do it?
work = energy.
working a little is possible save energy and money.
It's called working smart.
"Do you honestly believe there is even one respect in which the CEO should be earning more than an engineer?"
Yes. The CEO who built the company. If you don't think getting funding, handling employees, making business contact for future expansion, etc.. isn't hard, then you are delusional.
IF a CEO, any CEO, can use contacts and savvy to buy another company, or market a product, then yes, they are worth more then an Engineer. Dealing with over seas officials, time to market, trades. That is all hard work and makes a company profitable. Thus able to hire an engineer to make things.
If being an engineer alone was all it took, then there would be no upper management.
" If so, everyone would do the easiest job with the lowest investment required"
history says other wise.
Sure, you may be a lazy couch potato, but most people like to do things, even if they are hard.
I bet there are people who would love to build robots to do all those thing people wouldn't want to do.
Money is a handcuff. I can't change and go into robotic engineering without have my salary slashed. Something that would put a terrible burden onto my family.
I don't know of a solution that doesn't involve mass produce general purpose robots. It seems the best solution is a regulated free market..for now.
"ho do think designs the tools and machines that doctors use to do their jobs?"
Doctors...of Engineering.
I know a lot of Doctors. ALL of them are interested in treating, and healing the patient. It's an expensive trade, and they can get paid reasonably well.
If you want to talk about people providing 'medicine' and 'medical treatments' just for making money, look at acupuncturists, naturalpaths, and chiropractors.
The pretend to heal people to get rich.
You can like fancy cars AND want to medically treat people.
and the free market is killing a hell of a lot of Americans every day.
Did you have a point?
Who are you to say a Doctor is more important then food preparation?
Or should earn more money?
"Don't you realize that if an economy were managed in such a way you effectively create huge disincentive for people to become doctors? "
False.
The Soviet union had no problem producing Doctors. Do you know why? Education was free. If you had the mental discipline to go through the education process, you could become a doctor.
Same with engineers and physicist . I know the US spent decades poo-pooing the soviet union, but there was a lot of good things that happened as well.
A LOT of educated scientist, engineers, and doctors came from that period, as did a lot of poets and writers.
If the US had done business with Russia, and helped them have a more open market when they asked, the world would have been better off.
that's number 3 on the reasons to hate Reagan
I am a US citizen old enough to remember duck and cover drills in grade schools.
"To the market! The cause of, and solution to, all of life's problems." - Every CEO when wanting to lower benefits and wages.
Certainly want what they said when they where going out of business, and it's not something they say when a demand for employees goes up.
no it isn't.
Great exaggeration, but wrong.
The French have a higher quality of life then most people in the US.
But, hey wanting a livable wage is a great sin in the US.
If the person with the money doesn't want to do it, they will agree to that.
TO expand you lame ass example:
If the person clipping your grass cost 300 dollars, but you made 1000 dollars from having your lawn clipped, wouldn't it be worth it?
He is the founder, and probably know a lot of people therr personally.
200 lines? shit, I start looking hard at a function, or method, that exceed 20 lines.
Ironically, a former VB3 programmer insisted no function be under 200 lines~
No, but if he let the government computer network languish in government funded institution, or only allow corporation to use it, there would be a lot fewer coding jobs.
There was strong lobbying for both.
In the 70's and 80's PC computer programming in large corporation weren't being pushed becasue they did see the need, not becasue the feared anything.
Think. If IBM new enough about where the PC was going to be scared, they would have leveraged them much better.
YOU may have hit a bad patch in your career, but there are a lot of exciting things going on right now. Robotics is growing very quickly, Smart home apps have a lot of potential. Something most apps are utilizing, so there is a market for a clever programmer.
Social media still has some growth left. What we are using now is pretty primitive compared to the power available.
I'm writing predictive software, which is pretty cool.
Not everything is toy web garbage.
Fortunately, you can start coding an a used 50 dollar computer. If you look, you can find a 7 year old computer someone just wants out of their garage.
I bet if a 15 year old showed up at a computer club, someone would give him an old computer, maybe help the kid assemble one out of old parts.
kit's great if what you do to make money is also fun to you, but that's not the only factor.
Money is a good one. Generally, coding is less fun an usually boring for me. I used to do it all the time..but now I do it just for money. I do it well, I work hard, and my customers ar all very happy with my work. But when I walk out the door I'm don't want to go anywhere near a semi colon~
The only exception these days is if my kids want to do some script or something for a game. I love that.
Frankly, If I could make the same money, I'd spend my days playing my bass and building rockets.
I am aware no one has ever found a way to do it, but I would love to live in a world where what you are paid was based on age, and not what you do..just as long as you are doing something. start a base income at 18, peak at 50, slope down to retirement level at 65.
Maybe when robots are doing all the work.