First factor, fire is the last thing you want on a plane. Over.
hmm, small fire in the lavatory or wings falling off, which would I rather have... decisions, decisions.
Yes this was on the ground, but I hate absolutes... without exception~
"Because the reason is clear-cut" actually, planes fails do to a succession of unlikely events. And they are no more or less 'normal'.
The ONLY comparison that is valid is "It would have been worse in the air." They question is Can this happen in the air? and no., just becasue ti happens on the ground doesn't mean n it will happen in the air. Doesn't mean it can't.
Please, PLEASE please do not confuse federal debt, deficit and don't think they are the same as balancing a check book or running a business. They are not.
Here is one example
I I land you a quarter, and then you return it to me, and I lend it to you again, and you return it to me. How much money did I lend out? a quarter? 50 cents? Let's say My total revenue for the year 30 cents. Am I in debt 20 cents? is that my deficit? am I ahead 5 cents? That is extremely simply. Now imagine this happen at much larger monies, for period longer then a fiscal year. So,you see. It's not a home, or a business and it can not be run that way successfully.
Now the current pubs are confusing the issue by comparing the government to business and home check books. In 1978 the republican said it was their long term strategy to 'choke the beast' but cutting taxes no matter what. we are seeing the end result.
Maybe you should read it before using it, becasue this is nothing like 1984. I did a couple of papers on 1984, so I look forward to your fumbling around for a bad comparison.
" its not their park its ours, because we paid for it." BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHahahaha. No, they got a tax breaks to put it there, it's not the same as paying for it. A tax break that brought in a lot of jobs, BTW. Jobs that pay taxes.
"I've paid my entrance fee, to have free roam of the park in certain areas." well, you don't. You might want to read it some time. That said, how does this prevent that?
"I do not feel they have the right to track my every move." that's great that you feel that way, but they do. Just like you have the right to track guest in your home.
It'snot like they don't know where you are. Are you secretly attending their resort without them knowing? This is all about a better experience at Disney resort. It's a good idea. It's not even creepy.
"Well, one of those clinical outcomes of vaccination is getting the disease itself." er, no. The Clinical outcome is to provoke an immune response.
http://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/qa/flushot.htm#cantheflu ~~~ Can the flu shot give me the flu? No, a flu shot cannot cause flu illness. The viruses contained in flu shots are inactivated (killed), which means they cannot cause infection. Flu vaccine manufacturers kill the viruses used in the flu shot during the process of making vaccine, and batches of flu vaccine are tested to make sure they are safe. In randomized, blinded studies, where some people got flu shots and others got saltwater shots, the only differences in symptoms was increased soreness in the arm and redness at the injection site among people who got the flu shot. There were no differences in terms of body aches, fever, cough, runny nose or sore throat. More information about these studies is available at: Carolyn Bridges et al. (2000). Effectiveness and cost-benefit of influenza vaccination of healthy working adults: A randomized controlled trial . Kristin Nichol et al. (1995). The effectiveness of vaccination against influenza in healthy working adults. New England Journal of Medicine. 333(14): 889-893. Why do some people not feel well after getting the flu shot? The most common side effect of the flu vaccine in adults is soreness at the spot where the shot was given, which usually lasts less than two days. The soreness is often caused by a person’s immune system making protective antibodies to the killed viruses in the vaccine. These antibodies are what allow the body to fight against flu. The needle stick may also cause some soreness at the injection site. According to the Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices (ACIP), rare symptoms include fever, muscle pain, and feelings of discomfort or weakness. If these problems occur, they are very uncommon and usually begin soon after the shot and last 1-2 days. What about people who get a seasonal flu vaccine and still get sick with flu-like symptoms? There are several reasons why someone might get flu-like symptoms even after they have been vaccinated against the flu. People may be exposed to an influenza virus shortly before getting vaccinated or during the two-week period that it takes the body to gain protection after getting vaccinated. This exposure may result in a person becoming ill with flu before the vaccine begins to protect them. People may become ill from other (non-flu) viruses that circulate during the flu season, which can also cause flu-like symptoms (such as rhinovirus). A person may be exposed to an influenza virus that is not included in the seasonal flu vaccine. There are many different influenza viruses that circulate every year. The flu shot protects against the 3 viruses that research suggests will be most common. Unfortunately, some people can get infected with an influenza vaccine virus despite getting vaccinated. Protection provided by influenza vaccination can vary widely, based in part on health and age factors of the person getting vaccinated. In general, the flu vaccine works best among young healthy adults and older children. Some older people and people with certain chronic illnesses may develop less immunity after vaccination. However, even among people who tend to respond less well to vaccination, the flu vaccine can still help prevent influenza. Vaccination is particularly important for people at high risk of serious flu-related complications and for close contacts of high-risk people. For more information about the effectiveness of the flu vaccine, see How Well Does the Seasonal Flu Vaccine Work? ~~~
Other studies have shown that the 1 to 2 day effect is a type of placebo effect.
" Is there evidence that immunized workers are less likely to transmit the virus." yes. Since it can't love in their bodies, it can't grow and be transmitted. You can take my word for it, or go to the CDC, or study's virus or talk to practicing experts.
Dr. Mark Crislip does a pod cast called quackcast. He is an Infectious Disease specialist. What you would call an actual 'expert'. Listen to his podcast about vaccine or the flu.
"Just not with public funds for fetal research. " shutting down federal funding chilled the whole industry. Becasue if you separately invested in it, and you has other research you could get that funding cut as well.
", and please show me significant medical successes involving fetal stem cells." you mean that thing that the religious right got stifled for decades? Transplanting a kidney never cured anybody until someone had the idea of trying it, and then worked out the regimen that would prevent a transplanted kidney from being rejected by its grateful recipient. If they weren't allowed to work out the regime, it still wouldn't be a treatment.
"I actually like to err on the side of life. " but you aren't. You are siding with lies and detriment to life. Do you know where embryonic stem cells come from? left over of in vitro fertilization. Instead of throwing them in the trash, lines were created and science was being done. No one is, was, or has every kill anyone in any way shut to get stem cells. But I"m sure you will continue to blindly follow what every charismatic jackass in the religion your parents tuck you with regardless of any actual facts.
"Humanity has a poor record when it doesn't do so." No, we don't. Humanity has a great track record. Pretty much better then any other mammal. Yes, there are tragedies, but overall things keep improving. Fewer wars, less bloody wars, better health care, a global system that helps people 1000's of miles apart. It's not perfect, but overall it keep getting better.
" My inclination should anything like this be proposed in the UK is that I would be opposed on moral and ethical grounds regardless of the efficacy of the intervention." Some facts: 1) People who aren't vaccinated are a vector for mutation. Making everyone else, including the vaccinated, at risk 2) People who aren't vaccinated can get influenza and not show signs. SO the spread the disease without know it. 3) no, the vaccine is 100%, there are many reasons for this. Mutation from non vaccinated people is a big factor. 4) The vaccine does not give you a live strain. SO it doesn't make you sick. 5) A tiny percentage are allergic. 6) You need a high uptake to maintain herd immunity.
based om the fact, this treatment should be compulsory . Along with a few other vaccines. This is a society issue, not an individual issue. I don't even think it should be voted on becasue the media loves to give liars a platform and create false balance. Where all opinions are equal. SO you get all the data, facts and global experts in the field, and then some idiot like Oprah gives someone famous for picking her nose a platform to make her seem to be just as legit and actual experts.
There are many, many medical procedures, and saying some vaccine would be compulsory is not the same as sterilization, forced abortion.
Employers forcing certain requirement on the employee is reasonable. Should as surgeon be able to drink on the job? Should they be allowed to not wash their hands on "religious grounds"?
And how, exactly, does that bring back the people she will kill? How about when they spread the flu she gave them?
"should you waive those rights, you release the non-vaccinated medical professional free of liability for contraction of the sickness the vaccines were for" You are asking sick, confused, desperate, and ignorant people to make the decisions? well, your emergency can be treated now by this dumb ass who isn't vaccinated, or you can wait until the next shift and die.
Come one, completely unreasonable.
Not to mention her next step will be to make up more lies about her theology so she doesn't have to tell anyone whether or not she has been vaccinated.
frankly. if a nurse won't get vaccinated she should have her license pulled.
And he was wrong and said it to maintain FUD in order to distract from his destruction of 'liberal' influences.
Safer food, safer water, better healthcare, good science. But hey, lets not pay attention the the thousands of good thing the government does every fucking day. Lets you trite quote to propagate fud.
"1. Flu Vaccine's effectiveness is questionable. Irony, almost everyone I know who gets the flu vaccine, still gets the flu. "
It's effectiveness is 80-95%. Usual its i the 90 percentile. There are many reason for this.
". Irony, almost everyone I know who gets the flu vaccine, still gets the flu" wrong. The flu in Influenza. Do the get influenza? or do they get 'the flu'; which is attribute to any GI problem in the general populace. And of course, you are biasing the results and have no specific data. So you're vire isn't worth crap becasue it's anecdotal. And the plural of anecdote is not, and has never been, data.
"But I hear this EVERY year." no you don't. Many years has been a good match up. Are you looking for a perfect match up? well that just underlines your complete ignorance on the issue of vaccines, influenza and science.
"2. Flu Vaccine can still cause a few days worth of flu like symptoms." no, it can't.
"3. How often are people actually catching the flu? particularly a strain of illness they would not get if they had the vaccine." very We can tall becasue when the strain mutates away from the the vaccine death and flu cases go up. The most obvious example is the last bird flu.
"Which do pose risks, albeit usually very slim. " yes, extremely slim, and substantial lower then not being vaccinated. Influenza kills people. Just as a reminder.
"But do we support the removal of personal liberty to choose what to do with one's own body?" when ti impact other people? yes. You are not an island, and people in patient care deal with people that are sick. These nurses can pass on the flu and kill a lot of people. You might not be aware, but some people get a flu and it doesn't impact them, but they pass it on to others who then get sick. So these nurses could be at work with the flu and not know it. People who don't get vaccinated also become a vector for mutation. And when you are a vector for mutation AND you deal with a lot of people with other medical issues, it's dangerous.
"Are we sure?" Yes.
"but then are often told we don't have that right." becasue i some case what you do with your body impacts the people around you. You're coworkers, the person you buy lunch from, everyone. A flu pandemic can kill millions.
"d "Children reduce productivity of my workers. If any woman gets pregnant and chooses to keep the child. She will be fired." stop. Just stop. You are conflating two issue becasue you don't actually have any facts so you are reduced to FUD.
IF your home life prevent you from doing your job, then Yes you can be fired. I prefer to live in a society where when that helps people try to help that person do what the need to do in order to lessen the home life productivity before firing.
If you want to talk about vaccines, talk about vaccines. If you want to talk abortion, talk abortive. Don't mix them becasue they are not relatable. "Personal liberty" is a pretty vague term, so linking them tg\hat way is, at best, ignorant.
Man, I want to go to the Home Depot you go to! there sell stuff that can survive leaving the planet. journey through space, survive a fast deceleration and a parachute drop and work on a different planet in extreme conditions with silt blowing all over the place.
Now amplify that feeling by 1000 and you know how those of us that watched the moon landing feel.
Science, truly excited about science, is a wondrous thing. IT brought us great marvels. It's why we used to have the tallest buildings, biggest damn, best airplane, great cars, and drove the brightest minds in the world to come here. IT's why we have a probe exiting the solar system that STILL send back data. Hope, real hope comes from what science can do, and having generations that use science to accomplish goals.
Slashdot Mirror
First factor, fire is the last thing you want on a plane. Over.
hmm, small fire in the lavatory or wings falling off, which would I rather have... decisions, decisions.
Yes this was on the ground, but I hate absolutes... without exception~
"Because the reason is clear-cut"
actually, planes fails do to a succession of unlikely events.
And they are no more or less 'normal'.
The ONLY comparison that is valid is "It would have been worse in the air."
They question is Can this happen in the air?
and no., just becasue ti happens on the ground doesn't mean n it will happen in the air.
Doesn't mean it can't.
that in order to fix this problem, don't go to Boston~
Please, PLEASE please do not confuse federal debt, deficit and don't think they are the same as balancing a check book or running a business. They are not.
Here is one example
I I land you a quarter, and then you return it to me, and I lend it to you again, and you return it to me. How much money did I lend out? a quarter? 50 cents?
Let's say My total revenue for the year 30 cents. Am I in debt 20 cents? is that my deficit? am I ahead 5 cents?
That is extremely simply. Now imagine this happen at much larger monies, for period longer then a fiscal year.
So,you see. It's not a home, or a business and it can not be run that way successfully.
Now the current pubs are confusing the issue by comparing the government to business and home check books.
In 1978 the republican said it was their long term strategy to 'choke the beast' but cutting taxes no matter what. we are seeing the end result.
The Internet was a paradigm shift.
But they are very, very rare. Most people see these shifts becasue they are unaware of the steps it took to get there.
all science move in incremental steps.
Occasionally, there will be a shift in the way of thinking...but it's very rare.
Maybe you should read it before using it, becasue this is nothing like 1984.
I did a couple of papers on 1984, so I look forward to your fumbling around for a bad comparison.
What, a kind hearted act and appreciation?
" its not their park its ours, because we paid for it."
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHahahaha.
No, they got a tax breaks to put it there, it's not the same as paying for it. A tax break that brought in a lot of jobs, BTW. Jobs that pay taxes.
"I've paid my entrance fee, to have free roam of the park in certain areas."
well, you don't. You might want to read it some time.
That said, how does this prevent that?
"I do not feel they have the right to track my every move."
that's great that you feel that way, but they do.
Just like you have the right to track guest in your home.
It'snot like they don't know where you are. Are you secretly attending their resort without them knowing?
This is all about a better experience at Disney resort. It's a good idea. It's not even creepy.
"Well, one of those clinical outcomes of vaccination is getting the disease itself."
er, no. The Clinical outcome is to provoke an immune response.
http://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/qa/flushot.htm#cantheflu
~~~
Can the flu shot give me the flu?
No, a flu shot cannot cause flu illness. The viruses contained in flu shots are inactivated (killed), which means they cannot cause infection. Flu vaccine manufacturers kill the viruses used in the flu shot during the process of making vaccine, and batches of flu vaccine are tested to make sure they are safe. In randomized, blinded studies, where some people got flu shots and others got saltwater shots, the only differences in symptoms was increased soreness in the arm and redness at the injection site among people who got the flu shot. There were no differences in terms of body aches, fever, cough, runny nose or sore throat.
More information about these studies is available at:
Carolyn Bridges et al. (2000). Effectiveness and cost-benefit of influenza vaccination of healthy working adults: A randomized controlled trial .
Kristin Nichol et al. (1995). The effectiveness of vaccination against influenza in healthy working adults. New England Journal of Medicine. 333(14): 889-893.
Why do some people not feel well after getting the flu shot?
The most common side effect of the flu vaccine in adults is soreness at the spot where the shot was given, which usually lasts less than two days. The soreness is often caused by a person’s immune system making protective antibodies to the killed viruses in the vaccine. These antibodies are what allow the body to fight against flu. The needle stick may also cause some soreness at the injection site. According to the Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices (ACIP), rare symptoms include fever, muscle pain, and feelings of discomfort or weakness. If these problems occur, they are very uncommon and usually begin soon after the shot and last 1-2 days.
What about people who get a seasonal flu vaccine and still get sick with flu-like symptoms?
There are several reasons why someone might get flu-like symptoms even after they have been vaccinated against the flu.
People may be exposed to an influenza virus shortly before getting vaccinated or during the two-week period that it takes the body to gain protection after getting vaccinated. This exposure may result in a person becoming ill with flu before the vaccine begins to protect them.
People may become ill from other (non-flu) viruses that circulate during the flu season, which can also cause flu-like symptoms (such as rhinovirus).
A person may be exposed to an influenza virus that is not included in the seasonal flu vaccine. There are many different influenza viruses that circulate every year. The flu shot protects against the 3 viruses that research suggests will be most common.
Unfortunately, some people can get infected with an influenza vaccine virus despite getting vaccinated. Protection provided by influenza vaccination can vary widely, based in part on health and age factors of the person getting vaccinated. In general, the flu vaccine works best among young healthy adults and older children. Some older people and people with certain chronic illnesses may develop less immunity after vaccination. However, even among people who tend to respond less well to vaccination, the flu vaccine can still help prevent influenza. Vaccination is particularly important for people at high risk of serious flu-related complications and for close contacts of high-risk people. For more information about the effectiveness of the flu vaccine, see How Well Does the Seasonal Flu Vaccine Work?
~~~
Other studies have shown that the 1 to 2 day effect is a type of placebo effect.
"And every year, I get sick from it. "
no you don't.
" Is there evidence that immunized workers are less likely to transmit the virus."
yes.
Since it can't love in their bodies, it can't grow and be transmitted.
You can take my word for it, or go to the CDC, or study's virus or talk to practicing experts.
Dr. Mark Crislip does a pod cast called quackcast. He is an Infectious Disease specialist. What you would call an actual 'expert'.
Listen to his podcast about vaccine or the flu.
http://moremark.squarespace.com/quackcast-home/
he aslo does puscast.
http://moremark.squarespace.com/puscast-pacid-podcast/
"Just not with public funds for fetal research. "
shutting down federal funding chilled the whole industry. Becasue if you separately invested in it, and you has other research you could get that funding cut as well.
", and please show me significant medical successes involving fetal stem cells."
you mean that thing that the religious right got stifled for decades?
Transplanting a kidney never cured anybody until someone had the idea of trying it, and then worked out the regimen that would prevent a transplanted kidney from being rejected by its grateful recipient. If they weren't allowed to work out the regime, it still wouldn't be a treatment.
"I actually like to err on the side of life. "
but you aren't. You are siding with lies and detriment to life.
Do you know where embryonic stem cells come from? left over of in vitro fertilization. Instead of throwing them in the trash, lines were created and science was being done.
No one is, was, or has every kill anyone in any way shut to get stem cells.
But I"m sure you will continue to blindly follow what every charismatic jackass in the religion your parents tuck you with regardless of any actual facts.
"Humanity has a poor record when it doesn't do so."
No, we don't. Humanity has a great track record. Pretty much better then any other mammal.
Yes, there are tragedies, but overall things keep improving. Fewer wars, less bloody wars, better health care, a global system that helps people 1000's of miles apart.
It's not perfect, but overall it keep getting better.
" My inclination should anything like this be proposed in the UK is that I would be opposed on moral and ethical grounds regardless of the efficacy of the intervention."
Some facts:
1) People who aren't vaccinated are a vector for mutation. Making everyone else, including the vaccinated, at risk
2) People who aren't vaccinated can get influenza and not show signs. SO the spread the disease without know it.
3) no, the vaccine is 100%, there are many reasons for this. Mutation from non vaccinated people is a big factor.
4) The vaccine does not give you a live strain. SO it doesn't make you sick.
5) A tiny percentage are allergic.
6) You need a high uptake to maintain herd immunity.
based om the fact, this treatment should be compulsory . Along with a few other vaccines.
This is a society issue, not an individual issue. I don't even think it should be voted on becasue the media loves to give liars a platform and create false balance. Where all opinions are equal. SO you get all the data, facts and global experts in the field, and then some idiot like Oprah gives someone famous for picking her nose a platform to make her seem to be just as legit and actual experts.
There are many, many medical procedures, and saying some vaccine would be compulsory is not the same as sterilization, forced abortion.
Employers forcing certain requirement on the employee is reasonable.
Should as surgeon be able to drink on the job? Should they be allowed to not wash their hands on "religious grounds"?
And how, exactly, does that bring back the people she will kill? How about when they spread the flu she gave them?
"should you waive those rights, you release the non-vaccinated medical professional free of liability for contraction of the sickness the vaccines were for"
You are asking sick, confused, desperate, and ignorant people to make the decisions? well, your emergency can be treated now by this dumb ass who isn't vaccinated, or you can wait until the next shift and die.
Come one, completely unreasonable.
Not to mention her next step will be to make up more lies about her theology so she doesn't have to tell anyone whether or not she has been vaccinated.
frankly. if a nurse won't get vaccinated she should have her license pulled.
And he was wrong and said it to maintain FUD in order to distract from his destruction of 'liberal' influences.
Safer food, safer water, better healthcare, good science. But hey, lets not pay attention the the thousands of good thing the government does every fucking day. Lets you trite quote to propagate fud.
"1. Flu Vaccine's effectiveness is questionable. Irony, almost everyone I know who gets the flu vaccine, still gets the flu. "
It's effectiveness is 80-95%.
Usual its i the 90 percentile. There are many reason for this.
". Irony, almost everyone I know who gets the flu vaccine, still gets the flu"
wrong. The flu in Influenza. Do the get influenza? or do they get 'the flu'; which is attribute to any GI problem in the general populace.
And of course, you are biasing the results and have no specific data. So you're vire isn't worth crap becasue it's anecdotal. And the plural of anecdote is not, and has never been, data.
"But I hear this EVERY year."
no you don't. Many years has been a good match up.
Are you looking for a perfect match up? well that just underlines your complete ignorance on the issue of vaccines, influenza and science.
"2. Flu Vaccine can still cause a few days worth of flu like symptoms."
no, it can't.
"3. How often are people actually catching the flu? particularly a strain of illness they would not get if they had the vaccine."
very We can tall becasue when the strain mutates away from the the vaccine death and flu cases go up. The most obvious example is the last bird flu.
"Which do pose risks, albeit usually very slim. "
yes, extremely slim, and substantial lower then not being vaccinated. Influenza kills people. Just as a reminder.
"But do we support the removal of personal liberty to choose what to do with one's own body?"
when ti impact other people? yes. You are not an island, and people in patient care deal with people that are sick. These nurses can pass on the flu and kill a lot of people.
You might not be aware, but some people get a flu and it doesn't impact them, but they pass it on to others who then get sick.
So these nurses could be at work with the flu and not know it.
People who don't get vaccinated also become a vector for mutation. And when you are a vector for mutation AND you deal with a lot of people with other medical issues, it's dangerous.
"Are we sure?"
Yes.
"but then are often told we don't have that right."
becasue i some case what you do with your body impacts the people around you. You're coworkers, the person you buy lunch from, everyone. A flu pandemic can kill millions.
"d "Children reduce productivity of my workers. If any woman gets pregnant and chooses to keep the child. She will be fired."
stop. Just stop. You are conflating two issue becasue you don't actually have any facts so you are reduced to FUD.
IF your home life prevent you from doing your job, then Yes you can be fired. I prefer to live in a society where when that helps people try to help that person do what the need to do in order to lessen the home life productivity before firing.
If you want to talk about vaccines, talk about vaccines. If you want to talk abortion, talk abortive. Don't mix them becasue they are not relatable.
"Personal liberty" is a pretty vague term, so linking them tg\hat way is, at best, ignorant.
"Don't take a flu shot."
Christian grounds my ass.
Find any rock on the planet., and you will find an odd 'pattern'.
Man, I want to go to the Home Depot you go to! there sell stuff that can survive leaving the planet. journey through space, survive a fast deceleration and a parachute drop and work on a different planet in extreme conditions with silt blowing all over the place.
Now amplify that feeling by 1000 and you know how those of us that watched the moon landing feel.
Science, truly excited about science, is a wondrous thing. IT brought us great marvels. It's why we used to have the tallest buildings, biggest damn, best airplane, great cars, and drove the brightest minds in the world to come here. IT's why we have a probe exiting the solar system that STILL send back data.
Hope, real hope comes from what science can do, and having generations that use science to accomplish goals.
Are you..serious? are you SERIOUSLY concerted about the tide being impacted by a 7m object orbiting the moon?
It's amazing you live through any dives.
Speak for your self.
And if it isn't successful they drift off to their death?
"it will take a very very long time"
well then, lets not do it. becasue you know, it's takes time and is hard~