Right, but you don't bruteforce the hash itself, right? You generate every possible hash you can and hope one matches. This guy is saying he can generate all 6 char hashes in a reasonable amount of time, but not for more chars than that...
> Yes but some of us install a lot of machines, and mostly new ones without support. Simply updating > the kernels in the install images would help a lot.
This is definitely the area where I've had the most issues too. I've had to install PCI ethernet cards in cases where a new motherboard's onboard ethernet isn't supported, and occasionally I've built my own install disks with custom kernels.
Next time I run into this, I think I'll try a Knoppix install and see how that works. It seems to be updated often and have modern kernels.
> One of the main 'comments' I get when I recommend Debian GNU/Linux to people, is 'Debian is difficult to install' - a fair comment, > and this will be a move in the right direction.
And of course, the "standard answer" to this is "you only install Debian one time on any one machine". People who have not used it have a hard time believing this, but it's true barring hard disk failure or some other catastrophe like that. Even major updates happen via "apt-get upgrade", and 99.9% of the time it Just Works(TM) if you're running stable. (Take that down to about 97% for unstable/testing.)
I have a machine that started out around Debian 1.1, as a 486 and has been hardware upgraded several times (to a Pentium Pro and now a 1GHz C3) and apt-get upgraded routinely since those days. I had to reboot due to the recent linux security issue, prior to that this machine had an uptime of 172 days. It's running Debian/stable plus I've done some backporting out of unstable for a few key bits.
Anyways, between Knoppix, anaconda, and the new debian-installer work going on within Debian, hopefully the "it's hard to install" issue is just about a moot point. Enough proselytizing for this morning;-)
For what it's worth, my ISP has done exactly what you say for their dynamic IP customers. (Blocked outbound port 25 connections to all IPs but their mailservers.) It bugged me at first, but I set up my company's mailserver to listen on port 26 as well as 25, and now I can still relay my outbound mail. (No, we're not an open relay, don't bother trying.)
Static IP accounts can still make outbound port 25 connections, as it should be. All in all it makes sense.
> If you had this problem then I or anyone will have this problem too, so please let us know what program you are talking about. > Was a user error? Was it a bug? Is the bug being worked on?
I'm not poster so I don't know the answer to your question, but I will say I've accidently done this in K3b. I had files highlighted in the list of files to burn, AND there were files highlighted in the tree view of my filesystem. I hit the delete key thinking it would remove the ones from the list of files to burn; nope, it deleted them from the filesystem!
> It's great to see that they're working on a GUI editor. Swing has a steeper than necessary learning curve.
Does the Swing GUI builder support Swing, SWT, or both? Given that Eclipse doesn't use Swing (or at least it didn't used to) I'd be a bit surprised if the GUI builder only supported Swing.
> I noticed that nowhere did they mention just *how* they were compromised.
They will when it's known. They felt it more important to announce what's going on immediately than to wait until there were details to announce. Part of Debian's social contract is "we will not hide problems"; this announcement and those that will follow as more is known demonstrate this policy in action.
> You get what I'm trying to say? They think that kids are more likely to emulate sex than killing.
I definitely get what you're saying, I agree to some extent. But I think that some fairly large amount of teen sex is inevitable; for thousands of years we had a mean longevity of something like 28 years, so we evolved to have a serious sex drive starting at puberty. Our societal norms of getting married later and later goes against our innate instincts. Instincts are very hard to repress - not impossible of course.
Call me liberal, but I think you've got to educate kids about all aspects of these things; "here are the physical consequences of sex at a young age and or/promiscuity (STDs/pregnancy); here are the social consequences (labels like "slut", etc.); here are the emotional consequences (low self esteem, etc.)." And then you educate how to minimize those consequences - abstinence being the most effective, followed by condom use and monogamy, on down the line. Video games and movies are not going to teach you these things - I'm not condoning sex in video games perse.
As far as violence goes, it's true that most kids know that violence is bad on an intellectual level, but violence is definitely a staple of American society. As video games become more and more realistic, the line between fantasy and reality becomes more blurry all of the time. And it does seem to becoming more common for kids to emulate these things; I don't know if that's statistically the case or not.
It's not clear to me that practicing violence through video games, and seeing violent images is healthier for society or individuals than practicing or seeing sexual images in video games. But it seems to be accepted (in the US) that this is indeed the case. I guess I'd like to see some public debate on the matter; that's my point.
Sadly, I think you're right. I've never understood these moral judgements in American society (I can't speak for other societies) - sex is "worse" than violence. Excuse me? Sex is a normal part of a healthy (and sexually mature) human being's life. Violence is not a healthy part of anyone's life - even if you want to argue we're hardwired for it in same manner as we are for sex. If we want to repress instincts, let's start with violence, not sex, thank you very much.
I've read somewhere that the number represented by 64bits is larger than the number of atoms in the universe. But what if every quark needs an IP, will it be enough then?
Point taken. The clarification would be "Apple does not ship hardware RAID in a standard off-the-shelf desktop configuration, which is what this benchmark was about."
If you're going up to server hardware for the Mac, than you'll have to for the PC as well. I've got no problem with that, but it changes the nature of this particular benchmark.
What I think would be a cool benchmark is to install Debian on both a G5 and an Opteron machine, and run apps from Debian on both. You'd be using the same OS, the same compiler, etc and it might show the differences due to the hardware.
If you really wanted to go crazy, you could install the Debian base system and then start recompiling stuff with more optimized compilers for each platform. (Assuming they are available for Linux.) At least you'd be running off of the exact same codebase for your benchmarks.
If anyone wants to give me a G5 and an Operton, I volunteer for the task:-)
> Does anyone see just how biased and unscientific this all is?
Welcome to the world of benchmarking!
> Oh, and I didn't mention that most of th PC's had double the graphics memory, and had RAID as their primary storage.
Look at the table again, and see the two entries for the Alienware Aurora and the note about it at the bottom. They downgraded the machine to the same amount of video RAM and no RAID for a more equal comparison - I think that's being fair given the point of the benchmarks is for "off the shelf hardware."
It's not the author's fault that Apple doesn't ship hardware RAID, is it?! Welcome to the world of "sole supplier".
> No software-RAID setup on the Mac? Why RAID on the other machines?
> Seems kind of one-sided.
See how there are two entries for the Alienware Aurora? Now read the note at the bottom: "Most of the PCs used dual, RAID-striped hard drives; the Apple systems did not. We retested the Alienware Aurora with the 128MB Radeon 9800 Pro card and without RAID for more-direct comparison with the G5 systems."
I think that's being pretty fair, personally since it appears that the point of the article/benchmarks was to use "off the shelf", preconfigured hardware.
It's not like they decided not to buy a similarly configured Mac; AFAIK, such a thing does not exist. That's one of the issues with buying a Mac - there is only one supplier. It's like Henry Ford used to say - "you can have it in any color you like, as long as it's black.":-)
Check out the Mozilla roadmap. It shows a version 1.6 coming out in December 2003. Of course, it looks like 1.5 is several months "late" (an observation, not criticism) so I guess the schedule could be a bit loose.
BTW, for us who are too lazy to go find out ourselves, what makes firebird better than mozilla itself? I find mozilla to be quite satisfactory, why would I switch?
By MIPs/watt and price/performance. Since this article is about the Efficieon (sp?) they seem like relevant metrics. My guess is the Transmeta would win in the MIPs/watt, but not in price/performance. (But this is an uninformed guess since I have never seen a Transmeta processor for sale retail.)
BTW, I've used a 75MHz Pentium for the application we're talking about - firewalling/proxying. It's not a CPU intense job, and the C3 does fine for it. I'm also using it for NFS service inside my home, and it does fine for that as well. (Would I serve hundreds of machines with one? - of course I would not, pick the right tool for the right job.) I went with this solution because the machine is up 24/7 and I didn't want a space heater for this application - I've got space heaters elsewhere, but I tend to turn them off when not in use. The machine is much faster and much cooler than the dual PPro it replaced.
For the application you're talking about, check out the VIA C3M266 motherboard - $65 at newegg, with integrated everything including USB 2.0, and the VIA C3 1GHz. (I got mine for about $28 at MicroCenter locally here in Cincinnati.) That's what I'm using on a couple of these machines - low power, decent performance, great uptimes. Also it's a uATX form factor so you can buy a nice small case.
I like the idea of the TransMeta, but I doubt it can compete pricewise.
> This is just like the Wine project -- for years people have been promising that you'll just be able to install Wine and fire up any Windows app.
While it's true that you can't just fire up "any Windows app", I do have to say that my experience with Crossover Office has been pretty enjoyable. For any of the apps that they support, stuff "just works". (All of the Office suite works well enough I rarely reboot any more, in particular.) From time to time other applications will work as well. CodeWeavers seem to be very good about feeding their work back into Wine, too, which is important in being a good free software citizen.
I don't have any experience with TransGaming, but they seem to cover a different part of the Wine application space and what I've read about them has been positive - with respect to the technical half of the equation.
Anyways, Wine has been in development for years and I thought for a long time it would never get anywhere. I'm glad to see it's finally getting there.
Performance can mean lots of different things. Let's say I have a 200GB partition holding lots of (mostly) read-only data. In this case I'm not going to worry too much about write performance. Depending on the data and how I'm using it, read performance might not be a big deal either.
However, if I crash the system (accidently kick the power plug out of the UPS or something), I probably don't want to sit around for 1.5 hours while e2fsck runs. That's mainly what the journaling filesystem buys you. Perhaps the "recovery time" is the performance metric I'm most interested in.
(How is my last comment a troll?! I was replying to something that said "I dare you", and I'm the troll?! I've never been accused of trolling and now I've been moderated as a troll twice in a week!)
> WindowMaker has drag and drop and has for ages.
I used to use WindowMaker, now I use KDE, FWIW. I don't recall ever using drag and drop in WindowMaker, but maybe it was there when I used it and I simply didn't know.
> Which usually doesn't work properly in windows either, is never necessary, and rarely useful.
I don't know; it works pretty well inside MS Office, and copying from various apps and pasting to Office applications often works pretty well.
I agree with the other person who said that this comment is disingenuous. You said "I dare you, name any meaningful feature MSWin has that WindowMaker lacks". Now you're saying you really meant "meaningful to me";-)
The article says: "The passage came at about 2300 GMT, only 10 hours after a bright fireball streaked over the Orissa region of India. Indian villagers have found pieces of the meteorite, which reportedly cause two house fires. However, this event was not connected to the fly past of 2003 SQ222, says Marsden."
Maybe the parent isn't so informative - perhaps if you're moderating you should consider reading the articles you're moderating on.
Slashdot Mirror
Right, but you don't bruteforce the hash itself, right? You generate every possible hash you can and hope one matches. This guy is saying he can generate all 6 char hashes in a reasonable amount of time, but not for more chars than that...
> Yes but some of us install a lot of machines, and mostly new ones without support. Simply updating
> the kernels in the install images would help a lot.
This is definitely the area where I've had the most issues too. I've had to install PCI ethernet cards in cases where a new motherboard's onboard ethernet isn't supported, and occasionally I've built my own install disks with custom kernels.
Next time I run into this, I think I'll try a Knoppix install and see how that works. It seems to be updated often and have modern kernels.
> One of the main 'comments' I get when I recommend Debian GNU/Linux to people, is 'Debian is difficult to install' - a fair comment,
;-)
> and this will be a move in the right direction.
And of course, the "standard answer" to this is "you only install Debian one time on any one machine". People who have not used it have a hard time believing this, but it's true barring hard disk failure or some other catastrophe like that. Even major updates happen via "apt-get upgrade", and 99.9% of the time it Just Works(TM) if you're running stable. (Take that down to about 97% for unstable/testing.)
I have a machine that started out around Debian 1.1, as a 486 and has been hardware upgraded several times (to a Pentium Pro and now a 1GHz C3) and apt-get upgraded routinely since those days. I had to reboot due to the recent linux security issue, prior to that this machine had an uptime of 172 days. It's running Debian/stable plus I've done some backporting out of unstable for a few key bits.
Anyways, between Knoppix, anaconda, and the new debian-installer work going on within Debian, hopefully the "it's hard to install" issue is just about a moot point. Enough proselytizing for this morning
For what it's worth, my ISP has done exactly what you say for their dynamic IP customers. (Blocked outbound port 25 connections to all IPs but their mailservers.) It bugged me at first, but I set up my company's mailserver to listen on port 26 as well as 25, and now I can still relay my outbound mail. (No, we're not an open relay, don't bother trying.)
Static IP accounts can still make outbound port 25 connections, as it should be. All in all it makes sense.
> If you had this problem then I or anyone will have this problem too, so please let us know what program you are talking about.
> Was a user error? Was it a bug? Is the bug being worked on?
I'm not poster so I don't know the answer to your question, but I will say I've accidently done this in K3b. I had files highlighted in the list of files to burn, AND there were files highlighted in the tree view of my filesystem. I hit the delete key thinking it would remove the ones from the list of files to burn; nope, it deleted them from the filesystem!
Yours plus:
Paradroid
Karateka
Castle Wolfenstein
Raid on Bungling Bay
> It's great to see that they're working on a GUI editor. Swing has a steeper than necessary learning curve.
Does the Swing GUI builder support Swing, SWT, or both? Given that Eclipse doesn't use Swing (or at least it didn't used to) I'd be a bit surprised if the GUI builder only supported Swing.
> I noticed that nowhere did they mention just *how* they were compromised.
They will when it's known. They felt it more important to announce what's going on immediately than to wait until there were details to announce. Part of Debian's social contract is "we will not hide problems"; this announcement and those that will follow as more is known demonstrate this policy in action.
> You get what I'm trying to say? They think that kids are more likely to emulate sex than killing.
I definitely get what you're saying, I agree to some extent. But I think that some fairly large amount of teen sex is inevitable; for thousands of years we had a mean longevity of something like 28 years, so we evolved to have a serious sex drive starting at puberty. Our societal norms of getting married later and later goes against our innate instincts. Instincts are very hard to repress - not impossible of course.
Call me liberal, but I think you've got to educate kids about all aspects of these things; "here are the physical consequences of sex at a young age and or/promiscuity (STDs/pregnancy); here are the social consequences (labels like "slut", etc.); here are the emotional consequences (low self esteem, etc.)." And then you educate how to minimize those consequences - abstinence being the most effective, followed by condom use and monogamy, on down the line. Video games and movies are not going to teach you these things - I'm not condoning sex in video games perse.
As far as violence goes, it's true that most kids know that violence is bad on an intellectual level, but violence is definitely a staple of American society. As video games become more and more realistic, the line between fantasy and reality becomes more blurry all of the time. And it does seem to becoming more common for kids to emulate these things; I don't know if that's statistically the case or not.
It's not clear to me that practicing violence through video games, and seeing violent images is healthier for society or individuals than practicing or seeing sexual images in video games. But it seems to be accepted (in the US) that this is indeed the case. I guess I'd like to see some public debate on the matter; that's my point.
Enough rambling for now.
Sadly, I think you're right. I've never understood these moral judgements in American society (I can't speak for other societies) - sex is "worse" than violence. Excuse me? Sex is a normal part of a healthy (and sexually mature) human being's life. Violence is not a healthy part of anyone's life - even if you want to argue we're hardwired for it in same manner as we are for sex. If we want to repress instincts, let's start with violence, not sex, thank you very much.
OK, so we'll have to wait until IPv8 to install apache on every atom and/or subatomic particle in the universe then, shucks...
I've read somewhere that the number represented by 64bits is larger than the number of atoms in the universe. But what if every quark needs an IP, will it be enough then?
Point taken. The clarification would be "Apple does not ship hardware RAID in a standard off-the-shelf desktop configuration, which is what this benchmark was about."
If you're going up to server hardware for the Mac, than you'll have to for the PC as well. I've got no problem with that, but it changes the nature of this particular benchmark.
What I think would be a cool benchmark is to install Debian on both a G5 and an Opteron machine, and run apps from Debian on both. You'd be using the same OS, the same compiler, etc and it might show the differences due to the hardware.
:-)
If you really wanted to go crazy, you could install the Debian base system and then start recompiling stuff with more optimized compilers for each platform. (Assuming they are available for Linux.) At least you'd be running off of the exact same codebase for your benchmarks.
If anyone wants to give me a G5 and an Operton, I volunteer for the task
> Does anyone see just how biased and unscientific this all is?
Welcome to the world of benchmarking!
> Oh, and I didn't mention that most of th PC's had double the graphics memory, and had RAID as their primary storage.
Look at the table again, and see the two entries for the Alienware Aurora and the note about it at the bottom. They downgraded the machine to the same amount of video RAM and no RAID for a more equal comparison - I think that's being fair given the point of the benchmarks is for "off the shelf hardware."
It's not the author's fault that Apple doesn't ship hardware RAID, is it?! Welcome to the world of "sole supplier".
> No software-RAID setup on the Mac? Why RAID on the other machines?
:-)
> Seems kind of one-sided.
See how there are two entries for the Alienware Aurora? Now read the note at the bottom:
"Most of the PCs used dual, RAID-striped hard drives; the Apple systems did not. We retested the Alienware Aurora with the 128MB Radeon 9800 Pro card and without RAID for more-direct comparison with the G5 systems."
I think that's being pretty fair, personally since it appears that the point of the article/benchmarks was to use "off the shelf", preconfigured hardware.
It's not like they decided not to buy a similarly configured Mac; AFAIK, such a thing does not exist. That's one of the issues with buying a Mac - there is only one supplier. It's like Henry Ford used to say - "you can have it in any color you like, as long as it's black."
Check out the Mozilla roadmap. It shows a version 1.6 coming out in December 2003. Of course, it looks like 1.5 is several months "late" (an observation, not criticism) so I guess the schedule could be a bit loose.
BTW, for us who are too lazy to go find out ourselves, what makes firebird better than mozilla itself? I find mozilla to be quite satisfactory, why would I switch?
By MIPs/watt and price/performance. Since this article is about the Efficieon (sp?) they seem like relevant metrics. My guess is the Transmeta would win in the MIPs/watt, but not in price/performance. (But this is an uninformed guess since I have never seen a Transmeta processor for sale retail.)
BTW, I've used a 75MHz Pentium for the application we're talking about - firewalling/proxying. It's not a CPU intense job, and the C3 does fine for it. I'm also using it for NFS service inside my home, and it does fine for that as well. (Would I serve hundreds of machines with one? - of course I would not, pick the right tool for the right job.) I went with this solution because the machine is up 24/7 and I didn't want a space heater for this application - I've got space heaters elsewhere, but I tend to turn them off when not in use. The machine is much faster and much cooler than the dual PPro it replaced.
For the application you're talking about, check out the VIA C3M266 motherboard - $65 at newegg, with integrated everything including USB 2.0, and the VIA C3 1GHz. (I got mine for about $28 at MicroCenter locally here in Cincinnati.) That's what I'm using on a couple of these machines - low power, decent performance, great uptimes. Also it's a uATX form factor so you can buy a nice small case.
I like the idea of the TransMeta, but I doubt it can compete pricewise.
> This is just like the Wine project -- for years people have been promising that you'll just be able to install Wine and fire up any Windows app.
While it's true that you can't just fire up "any Windows app", I do have to say that my experience with Crossover Office has been pretty enjoyable. For any of the apps that they support, stuff "just works". (All of the Office suite works well enough I rarely reboot any more, in particular.) From time to time other applications will work as well. CodeWeavers seem to be very good about feeding their work back into Wine, too, which is important in being a good free software citizen.
I don't have any experience with TransGaming, but they seem to cover a different part of the Wine application space and what I've read about them has been positive - with respect to the technical half of the equation.
Anyways, Wine has been in development for years and I thought for a long time it would never get anywhere. I'm glad to see it's finally getting there.
Performance can mean lots of different things. Let's say I have a 200GB partition holding lots of (mostly) read-only data. In this case I'm not going to worry too much about write performance. Depending on the data and how I'm using it, read performance might not be a big deal either.
However, if I crash the system (accidently kick the power plug out of the UPS or something), I probably don't want to sit around for 1.5 hours while e2fsck runs. That's mainly what the journaling filesystem buys you. Perhaps the "recovery time" is the performance metric I'm most interested in.
(How is my last comment a troll?! I was replying to something that said "I dare you", and I'm the troll?! I've never been accused of trolling and now I've been moderated as a troll twice in a week!)
;-)
> WindowMaker has drag and drop and has for ages.
I used to use WindowMaker, now I use KDE, FWIW. I don't recall ever using drag and drop in WindowMaker, but maybe it was there when I used it and I simply didn't know.
> Which usually doesn't work properly in windows either, is never necessary, and rarely useful.
I don't know; it works pretty well inside MS Office, and copying from various apps and pasting to Office applications often works pretty well.
I agree with the other person who said that this comment is disingenuous. You said "I dare you, name any meaningful feature MSWin has that WindowMaker lacks". Now you're saying you really meant "meaningful to me"
> I dare you, name any meaningful feature MSWin has that WindowMaker lacks.
Drag and drop? Cut and paste on complex objects between applications?
The article says:
"The passage came at about 2300 GMT, only 10 hours after a bright fireball streaked over the Orissa region of India. Indian villagers have found pieces of the meteorite, which reportedly cause two house fires. However, this event was not connected to the fly past of 2003 SQ222, says Marsden."
Maybe the parent isn't so informative - perhaps if you're moderating you should consider reading the articles you're moderating on.