What the fuck are you smoking? I watched that video, and maybe you should too before you reply.
Now I didn't plan to take part on this argument and all I'm saying here is that the video clearly is not about what you think it is - and it's title is some kind of stupid scam (not clever scam, there's nothing "clever" about posting video about X and claiming it's about Y).
Funny that Finnish universities teach computing science, or "Tietojenkäsittelytiede" (engl. computer science, computing science or information processing science)
Software engineering is the study of designing, implementing, and modifying software in order to ensure it is of high quality, affordable, maintainable, and fast to build. It is a systematic approach to software design, involving the application of engineering practices to software. Software engineering deals with the organizing and analyzing of software— it doesn't just deal with the creation or manufacture of new software, but its internal maintenance and arrangement. Both computer applications software engineers and computer systems software engineers are projected to be among the fastest growing occupations from 2008 and 2018. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computer_science#Software_engineering
A developer friend of mine was editing some C source in emacs, when he somehow finger-flubbed a command that not only UPPERCASEd his ENTIRE source; but then SAVED WITHOUT PROMPTING.
Did he try C-_ ? I haven't made an editing error that's not possible to undo with emacs yet... And yes, it can cause big things you didn't mean to if you enter wrong key combo - anyone who knows emacs knows this and has decided to use it despise that. If they don't know how to *undo an editing command* then that's just stupid - to use emacs for anything important that is. In fact using any editor without knowing how to undo would be.
To this day, he won't touch emacs. Can't say as I blame him.
I would blame myself, were I him.
Hell, even the OS X "Aqua-fied" emacs is nearly impossible to use. It doesn't matter HOW "powerful" something is (especially something like a TEXT EDITOR, for fuck's sake!), if you have to spend YEARS learning it.
It didn't take me one year to learn use it more powerfully than other editors I had tried. My general take on editor wars is: *pffft* - but blaming editor for it's features - instead of just deciding that those features have cons that make it not good for you personally - is just silly. Not saying that all your arguments were just that - but your main ones seemed to be.
Yeah, I like emacs, as you probably guessed, but it's rare for me to enter any editor war kind of talk even this deeply. I'll probably regret it.
While I have no idea what, if anything specific, HURD is targeted at, I have to say about Linux that considering work on hardware support and other stuff that clearly is not something you need on servers or embedded devices, desktops (and pretty much anything they can make it run on) are very much ongoing "target" of Linux. I believe Linux targets anything it can/could be useful on.
While it was news to me (thank you), the article actually said only this about linux drivers: "...there is a ported Linux 2.6.32 drivers layer for network adapters...", and for fuller quote of that paragraph:
The current state of GNU/Hurd when it comes to hardware support is that the kernel is i686 capable, there is a ported Linux 2.6.32 drivers layer for network adapters, basic support for IDE / SCSI / PCMCIA / Xorg, and Xen PV DomU support. Among the major lacking features though is no support at all right now for USB, sound, and Serial ATA drives.
PS. I didn't pick Sheldon Cooper just because of being language nerd but even more importantly because of his lack of social skills and how it affects argumentation.
Then leave you fool, or stop letting it bother you. IMO, Life's too short to be annoyed / pissed off all the time. Honestly I was just joking.
I didn't mean to sound as strong as I likely did - it probably seems like I have an issue that actually makes me feel constantly pissed off when on this site. It's much milder than that. Also, apologies for misunderstanding your humor. My message however was not meant as direct attack against yours and very much general, not personal - that too might have not been obvious from my post.
I do get annoyed by people who seem to be unable to *not* misunderstand others posts on purpose and then making argument based on that - but not so much it keeps me pissed off. I choose to stay because I get way more good than bad vibes out of this site;)
"Fuck 'em if they can't take a Joke"
I did mis-read the comment the 1st time through, and then just responded under that interpretation when I realized it could be taken both ways due to the run-on sentence; It wasn't clear which way was meant. No, really, if you're lexing that sentence as you go you don't realize it could be taken an alternate way until the "for free" part that comes later -- It wasn't a deliberate miss-read, it was the only way to read it, temporally.
I hear you. I repeat my apology and swear that it was not intended as personal attack on you but born of frustration from posts that take the issue I complained about into a whole other level:p
P.S. Language Nerds existed well before Sheldon Cooper, as did exaggerators such as yourself. Being "sickened" about comments such as these this late in the game seems like a pointless endeavor... That's like being disgusted because gay-bars are full of queers, eh?
Oh, being a bi-sexual I can assure gay-bars are not (always anyway) full of queers only;) Oh, and that Sheldon reference was just something that came into my mind that moment - to actually try not sound as serious as I obviously did. But may I offer a virtual hand-shake on this? It's clearly not you I have any beef with (and my post did come out sounding much more exaggerator-like than I meant to ):)
Mostly true and/or agree, but - just for example - every ARM system in future which is of no use but could be repurposed by someone if it only had unlocked bootloader is a sad failure and wrong on more than one level. Or if the version of windows install it has is messed and all you'd need was re-install but the version isn't supported anymore... or... you keep on.
The fact is that in the end of Win ARM devices use a number of them will have possible other uses they could be useful for, but unless the lock-in can be broken they will be just bricks - only worse as waste.
Perhaps it would go down easier if we stopped calling them phones, and started calling portable communication and computation devices. THe 'phones' of today are anything BUT phones. It's like calling a desktop with a modem a phone. You could use it as one, but that is not what it is.
Funny how my dumbphone (which I don't think is that dumb just because it's limited to Java Mobile for applications [actually called that, not "apps", by the phone] - heck, they eventually changed from their native ran crappy browser to Opera Mini, even though it needs to run with J2ME penalty, so it can't be that bad...]) has actually more in common with our desktop PC from '91 + modem (although, for most parts, the phone outperforms the old PC) than with our phone from 91. Now comparison of modern cell phone to not only analog but also land-line phone is unfair - but so is comparison of modern mobile computer to early 90's desktop PC:)...and it really has meaning only for humoring ourselves.
But the point holds - phones have long become more than just phones. Even most basic dumbphones have non-phone related (phonebook, etc. are phone features) features, even if just stuff like electric calendar. It's actually hard to find phones that *don't* support 3rd party applications which most of the time have nothing to do with phoning. I like it, but I hope the simpler dumbphones will stick around - and that "touch-screen only" never becomes the only option.
Do iPhones nowday really have standard USB slot you can use any regular USB cable (just as long as it has the right type USB connector, ie. micro) to connect it and not one requiring the apple brand USB cable with non-standard connector on phone end? I'm asking because I really don't know - and because even today, when USB *should* be expected I've seen phones (not apple) with non-standard USB connector very closely matching to micro-usb but in fact requiring brand cable. And this really baffles and angers me and if Apple has done away with their proprietary USB-to-Apple cables and connectors then - and this coming from apple hater - very big kudos to them for that. The moment we can ditch all proprietary USB and charging cables for standard USB for all phones (and any accessories connecting to USB) the better.
Also, what about iPod? I assume the situation would be the same as with iPhone?
I was just thinking about how Apple's products have evolved this century.
They produced the first good MP3 player, the iPod. Then others developed good MP3 players too.
When apple gets credited for producing The First Good MP3 player you just know it's an apple fanboi writing. I give Apple credit for iTunes (the shop, not the mandatory software to access your song collection) and for producing the first big brand-value MP3 player. Those were good business choices, and the iTunes shop was a frontier in bringing easy web purchasing of songs to masses. Also I'm not calling iPod bad, but I would never try something as ridiculous as claiming it to be the first good one. Personally it never was a player I would have bought as new - I only ended up eventually having one because I needed a new player and friend was throwing away his old iPod. He also bought a Creative player next.
They moved on to the first good smartphone, the iPhone. Then others developed good smartphones too. They moved on to the first good tablet, the iPad. Then others developed good tablets too.
The first claim was the most jaw dropping for me. These two I'm just tired to discuss about. I admit in both cases they had something better than what many of the others had.
This truly is one of the major benefits of FOSS based solutions, but rarely an argument that gets a positive reaction from (non-hacker) end-user. It's a sales argument only to hackers (well, programmers in general, though to be a good programmer - instead of one in code-monkey-row - probably demands one to be hacker), and even for them only small part of everything useful they come to think they would like to have will materialize as their personal projects they feel worth their time...
Luckily here comes the benefit of numbers - if an app/feature/etc. is wanted enough the number of hackers willingly dedicating their time to provide free (most often as in, both, freedom *and* beer) end solutions will guarantee there are people to take up that specific thing. Though hackers will treat their own needs and then their peers needs primarily and the "obscure GUI'ish needs of end-users" (those with tight lips or bee in a bonnet, lighten up) are the last thing they want to work on the state of current FOSS environments, number of people working on them free, number of business efforts to improve them and people thus working on FOSS for pay, etc. will keep pretty much any/every feature that you might want as well as those you wouldn't want available for you.
And it's why I'd never buy a computer that limited what I can install on it without at least providing a way around it, provided I'm the owner/have the root/etc. if I have a say on it.
I bought an iPod once though - it was used, cost me 5 euros and I knew I could replace the OS with rockbox if I wanted. All I wanted of it was to use it as MP3 player though and even with having to convert my.ogg files to another codec and not being able to access and alter the song collection like just another usb flashdrive but with weird iTunes clones, such as gtkpod, I never got to change the OS. It didn't feel important enough, though it would have made it better for me - and I eventually would have gotten up to it, but it was stolen. This was told just to explain I don't act black/white, but I am pretty heavily invested towards open and against closed systems - for me to choose more closed one the choice would have to be about something insignificant or it has to have major benefits over the more open choice. In this case I bought, without supporting apple, a nearly free product built around walled garden ecosystem I could replace at anytime if it bothered me too much. Plus there was no other takers for that iPod at the time.
I remember having this phone with a fatter extra battery that made the already brick size phone (of course all phones used to be bricks back then) almost twice as thick:) I don't remember how much extra battery time it provided, but I seem to recall that it wasn't proportionally as much as the size increase:)
I know this reply was rather pointless - just memories:)
That's bunk. When the iPhone came out, just what other phone features exactly were Apple behind on? You probably have forgotten that many (most?) of the copy cats that followed also took a year or two before implementing copy/paste, many after iOS had already implemented it.
LOL, I've had copy/paste in my freaking dumbphone before there was iOS.
I don't loath the language. I do loathe the Sheldon Coopers here deliberately misunderstanding whatever anyone says that could be interpreted in more than one way but where the meaning is really clear - and they do it ALL THE TIME.
Too bad I don't have mod points to +1 you - or -1 the bollocks you got as a result. Anyone claiming total UEFI lockdown on ARM is for security and has nada to do with blocking OtherOS is deluded - and anyone thinking MS wouldn't love to do just that with x86 but took slightly more moderate route because they are a monopoly at x86 desktop, and it would just be nasty for them if they had gone that way, is deluded.
What you describe is what's happening with the plan they had to settle with.
Gotta hand it to you for really putting in the effort to explain all this:) Many would have done with a small percentage of words - and would have written a much more boring reply at that >:) So congrats.
Slashdot Mirror
You should be receiving positive mod points - sadly it seems to be the opposite... can't help but think...
Other than it already happened in the US
What the fuck are you smoking? I watched that video, and maybe you should too before you reply.
Now I didn't plan to take part on this argument and all I'm saying here is that the video clearly is not about what you think it is - and it's title is some kind of stupid scam (not clever scam, there's nothing "clever" about posting video about X and claiming it's about Y).
Funny that Finnish universities teach computing science, or "Tietojenkäsittelytiede" (engl. computer science, computing science or information processing science)
https://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tietojenk%C3%A4sittelytiede
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computer_science
Software engineering is the study of designing, implementing, and modifying software in order to ensure it is of high quality, affordable, maintainable, and fast to build. It is a systematic approach to software design, involving the application of engineering practices to software. Software engineering deals with the organizing and analyzing of software— it doesn't just deal with the creation or manufacture of new software, but its internal maintenance and arrangement. Both computer applications software engineers and computer systems software engineers are projected to be among the fastest growing occupations from 2008 and 2018.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computer_science#Software_engineering
A developer friend of mine was editing some C source in emacs, when he somehow finger-flubbed a command that not only UPPERCASEd his ENTIRE source; but then SAVED WITHOUT PROMPTING.
Did he try C-_ ? I haven't made an editing error that's not possible to undo with emacs yet... And yes, it can cause big things you didn't mean to if you enter wrong key combo - anyone who knows emacs knows this and has decided to use it despise that. If they don't know how to *undo an editing command* then that's just stupid - to use emacs for anything important that is. In fact using any editor without knowing how to undo would be.
To this day, he won't touch emacs. Can't say as I blame him.
I would blame myself, were I him.
Hell, even the OS X "Aqua-fied" emacs is nearly impossible to use. It doesn't matter HOW "powerful" something is (especially something like a TEXT EDITOR, for fuck's sake!), if you have to spend YEARS learning it.
It didn't take me one year to learn use it more powerfully than other editors I had tried. My general take on editor wars is: *pffft* - but blaming editor for it's features - instead of just deciding that those features have cons that make it not good for you personally - is just silly. Not saying that all your arguments were just that - but your main ones seemed to be.
Yeah, I like emacs, as you probably guessed, but it's rare for me to enter any editor war kind of talk even this deeply. I'll probably regret it.
While I have no idea what, if anything specific, HURD is targeted at, I have to say about Linux that considering work on hardware support and other stuff that clearly is not something you need on servers or embedded devices, desktops (and pretty much anything they can make it run on) are very much ongoing "target" of Linux. I believe Linux targets anything it can/could be useful on.
While it was news to me (thank you), the article actually said only this about linux drivers:
"...there is a ported Linux 2.6.32 drivers layer for network adapters...",
and for fuller quote of that paragraph:
The current state of GNU/Hurd when it comes to hardware support is that the kernel is i686 capable, there is a ported Linux 2.6.32 drivers layer for network adapters, basic support for IDE / SCSI / PCMCIA / Xorg, and Xen PV DomU support. Among the major lacking features though is no support at all right now for USB, sound, and Serial ATA drives.
PS. I didn't pick Sheldon Cooper just because of being language nerd but even more importantly because of his lack of social skills and how it affects argumentation.
This site is full of that, it sickens me.
Then leave you fool, or stop letting it bother you. IMO, Life's too short to be annoyed / pissed off all the time. Honestly I was just joking.
I didn't mean to sound as strong as I likely did - it probably seems like I have an issue that actually makes me feel constantly pissed off when on this site.
It's much milder than that.
Also, apologies for misunderstanding your humor. My message however was not meant as direct attack against yours and very much general, not personal - that too might have not been obvious from my post.
I do get annoyed by people who seem to be unable to *not* misunderstand others posts on purpose and then making argument based on that - but not so much it keeps me pissed off. I choose to stay because I get way more good than bad vibes out of this site ;)
"Fuck 'em if they can't take a Joke"
I did mis-read the comment the 1st time through, and then just responded under that interpretation when I realized it could be taken both ways due to the run-on sentence; It wasn't clear which way was meant. No, really, if you're lexing that sentence as you go you don't realize it could be taken an alternate way until the "for free" part that comes later -- It wasn't a deliberate miss-read, it was the only way to read it, temporally.
I hear you. :p
I repeat my apology and swear that it was not intended as personal attack on you but born of frustration from posts that take the issue I complained about into a whole other level
P.S. Language Nerds existed well before Sheldon Cooper, as did exaggerators such as yourself. Being "sickened" about comments such as these this late in the game seems like a pointless endeavor... That's like being disgusted because gay-bars are full of queers, eh?
Oh, being a bi-sexual I can assure gay-bars are not (always anyway) full of queers only ;) :)
Oh, and that Sheldon reference was just something that came into my mind that moment - to actually try not sound as serious as I obviously did.
But may I offer a virtual hand-shake on this? It's clearly not you I have any beef with (and my post did come out sounding much more exaggerator-like than I meant to )
Mostly true and/or agree, but - just for example - every ARM system in future which is of no use but could be repurposed by someone if it only had unlocked bootloader is a sad failure and wrong on more than one level.
Or if the version of windows install it has is messed and all you'd need was re-install but the version isn't supported anymore... or... you keep on.
The fact is that in the end of Win ARM devices use a number of them will have possible other uses they could be useful for, but unless the lock-in can be broken they will be just bricks - only worse as waste.
Perhaps it would go down easier if we stopped calling them phones, and started calling portable communication and computation devices. THe 'phones' of today are anything BUT phones. It's like calling a desktop with a modem a phone. You could use it as one, but that is not what it is.
Funny how my dumbphone (which I don't think is that dumb just because it's limited to Java Mobile for applications [actually called that, not "apps", by the phone] - heck, they eventually changed from their native ran crappy browser to Opera Mini, even though it needs to run with J2ME penalty, so it can't be that bad...]) has actually more in common with our desktop PC from '91 + modem (although, for most parts, the phone outperforms the old PC) than with our phone from 91. :) ...and it really has meaning only for humoring ourselves.
Now comparison of modern cell phone to not only analog but also land-line phone is unfair - but so is comparison of modern mobile computer to early 90's desktop PC
But the point holds - phones have long become more than just phones. Even most basic dumbphones have non-phone related (phonebook, etc. are phone features) features, even if just stuff like electric calendar. It's actually hard to find phones that *don't* support 3rd party applications which most of the time have nothing to do with phoning.
I like it, but I hope the simpler dumbphones will stick around - and that "touch-screen only" never becomes the only option.
Do iPhones nowday really have standard USB slot you can use any regular USB cable (just as long as it has the right type USB connector, ie. micro) to connect it and not one requiring the apple brand USB cable with non-standard connector on phone end? I'm asking because I really don't know - and because even today, when USB *should* be expected I've seen phones (not apple) with non-standard USB connector very closely matching to micro-usb but in fact requiring brand cable. And this really baffles and angers me and if Apple has done away with their proprietary USB-to-Apple cables and connectors then - and this coming from apple hater - very big kudos to them for that. The moment we can ditch all proprietary USB and charging cables for standard USB for all phones (and any accessories connecting to USB) the better.
Also, what about iPod? I assume the situation would be the same as with iPhone?
I was just thinking about how Apple's products have evolved this century.
They produced the first good MP3 player, the iPod. Then others developed good MP3 players too.
When apple gets credited for producing The First Good MP3 player you just know it's an apple fanboi writing. I give Apple credit for iTunes (the shop, not the mandatory software to access your song collection) and for producing the first big brand-value MP3 player. Those were good business choices, and the iTunes shop was a frontier in bringing easy web purchasing of songs to masses. Also I'm not calling iPod bad, but I would never try something as ridiculous as claiming it to be the first good one.
Personally it never was a player I would have bought as new - I only ended up eventually having one because I needed a new player and friend was throwing away his old iPod. He also bought a Creative player next.
They moved on to the first good smartphone, the iPhone. Then others developed good smartphones too.
They moved on to the first good tablet, the iPad. Then others developed good tablets too.
The first claim was the most jaw dropping for me. These two I'm just tired to discuss about. I admit in both cases they had something better than what many of the others had.
This truly is one of the major benefits of FOSS based solutions, but rarely an argument that gets a positive reaction from (non-hacker) end-user. It's a sales argument only to hackers (well, programmers in general, though to be a good programmer - instead of one in code-monkey-row - probably demands one to be hacker), and even for them only small part of everything useful they come to think they would like to have will materialize as their personal projects they feel worth their time...
Luckily here comes the benefit of numbers - if an app/feature/etc. is wanted enough the number of hackers willingly dedicating their time to provide free (most often as in, both, freedom *and* beer) end solutions will guarantee there are people to take up that specific thing. Though hackers will treat their own needs and then their peers needs primarily and the "obscure GUI'ish needs of end-users" (those with tight lips or bee in a bonnet, lighten up) are the last thing they want to work on the state of current FOSS environments, number of people working on them free, number of business efforts to improve them and people thus working on FOSS for pay, etc. will keep pretty much any/every feature that you might want as well as those you wouldn't want available for you.
And it's why I'd never buy a computer that limited what I can install on it without at least providing a way around it, provided I'm the owner/have the root/etc. if I have a say on it.
I bought an iPod once though - it was used, cost me 5 euros and I knew I could replace the OS with rockbox if I wanted. All I wanted of it was to use it as MP3 player though and even with having to convert my .ogg files to another codec and not being able to access and alter the song collection like just another usb flashdrive but with weird iTunes clones, such as gtkpod, I never got to change the OS. It didn't feel important enough, though it would have made it better for me - and I eventually would have gotten up to it, but it was stolen.
This was told just to explain I don't act black/white, but I am pretty heavily invested towards open and against closed systems - for me to choose more closed one the choice would have to be about something insignificant or it has to have major benefits over the more open choice. In this case I bought, without supporting apple, a nearly free product built around walled garden ecosystem I could replace at anytime if it bothered me too much. Plus there was no other takers for that iPod at the time.
I drank too much coffee.
I remember having this phone with a fatter extra battery that made the already brick size phone (of course all phones used to be bricks back then) almost twice as thick :) I don't remember how much extra battery time it provided, but I seem to recall that it wasn't proportionally as much as the size increase :)
I know this reply was rather pointless - just memories :)
That's bunk. When the iPhone came out, just what other phone features exactly were Apple behind on? You probably have forgotten that many (most?) of the copy cats that followed also took a year or two before implementing copy/paste, many after iOS had already implemented it.
LOL, I've had copy/paste in my freaking dumbphone before there was iOS.
I don't loath the language. I do loathe the Sheldon Coopers here deliberately misunderstanding whatever anyone says that could be interpreted in more than one way but where the meaning is really clear - and they do it ALL THE TIME.
This site is full of that, it sickens me.
It may be fun for you to deliberately to not understand what someone meant - it makes you an idiot douchebag to others though. Have fun.
for x86 devices
*yawn*
Too bad I don't have mod points to +1 you - or -1 the bollocks you got as a result. Anyone claiming total UEFI lockdown on ARM is for security and has nada to do with blocking OtherOS is deluded - and anyone thinking MS wouldn't love to do just that with x86 but took slightly more moderate route because they are a monopoly at x86 desktop, and it would just be nasty for them if they had gone that way, is deluded.
What you describe is what's happening with the plan they had to settle with.
...yeah, I totally hear what you're saying...
Gotta hand it to you for really putting in the effort to explain all this :) Many would have done with a small percentage of words - and would have written a much more boring reply at that >:) So congrats.
Just wanted to say my compliments on you tagline... it actually made me feel a bit nauseous, and that's a lot from a tagline!
Riiight, that quote really is at right use against negative review of product that clearly deserves negative review.
I'm suggesting a strong possibility...
Amen to that. Also, if you offer me an option for DRM'd version only, don't expect me to act like I have a *proper* way to legally obtain your work.
I think you're confusing English with perl...