hmm, very odd, as all i see is this, even the "preview" strips all formatting out, so at least in that context it's "honest":)
https://imgur.com/a/CMozG
how is anyone supposed to compose a post with this behaviour, or is it something only on my end ??
bugger, forgot link to Apple story about firing their diversity chief:
http://fortune.com/2017/11/16/...
P.S.
seriously, no line breaks and i can't edit comments either ??
"Some companies take advantage of female employees. Have for *decades*. That includes both male and female bosses"
Some do, the vast majority don't. Is that the standard for "institutionalised wage gap" ?
I'm in favour of merit-based hiring, so i simply do not agree with the trend for "diversity and inclusion" as the current bandwagon exists.
Apple fired a 20 year veteran, who was their "diversity chief" for only 6 months, because she would NOT discriminate against white males.
“There can be 12 white, blue-eyed, blonde men in a room and they’re going to be diverse too because they’re going to bring a different life experience and life perspective to the conversation.”
If you segregate people by race, colour, creed, sexuality, disability" and whatever other lines you want to draw, you get nowhere.
You can't campaign for "equality" while simultaneously separating people into increasingly diverse boxes that prove they're "different" and somehow need handicap bonuses like affirmative action.
It's as ridiculous as feminists one moment campaigning for "equality" by claiming they're equally competent as a man and literally "don't need a man", while simultaneously campaigning for lower standards to entry for everything from military, police, firefighter, etc.
If you're equally capable, then you have the obligation to be equally tested. No handicap bonuses.
Nobody is campaigning for "equality" and "equal representation" in the 100 meters Olympics: where the white people at ?
So which is it, are women, blacks, hispanics, etc equal, or need help because they're inferior ?
P.S.
WTF, why aren't there any line breaks in my posts ??
because with a large enough sample, individual deviations for things like actual hours worked and the strengths and weaknesses for particular work-related skills should even-out.
That's exactly how the myth of the "gender wage gap" was started, ignoring the fact different people WITHIN THE SAME JOB, worked different hours, etc.
So which is it:
1) the gender wage gap exists and is proved when we examine the average worker in each job, ignoring hours worked....
2) "individual deviations for things like actual hours worked and the strengths and weaknesses for particular work-related skills should even-out."
Pick one.
"The Pokemon Company" usually makes the games, and Nintendo owns 32% stake in that company. Pokemon Go, is made by Niantic, the same company that made the Android game "Ingress".
The Pokemon Company licensed the Pokemon IP to Niantic, so we can guess the usual, less than 10% royalties.
This means Nintendo is receiving money from their 32% stake in The Pokemon Company, which itself is only receiving less than 10% from Niantic's Pokemon Go
in fact my partner being like-minded finds such expression quite flattering. we relate to each other in such ways as to express how we think about each other regarding looks, behaviour, intention, etc. when she says i look "healthy" and "happy" it's a good thing to me, just as when i describe her as "assertive" and "strategic", she finds that a turn on too.
we don't say things like "oh baby, we were meant to be together as kindred spirits. i knew it in my heart the moment i sensed your aura!".
we don't think like that, so we don't behave like that, by ourselves or towards each other. when one of us asks how/why something works, the other doesn't respond "magic man done it!". we explain in an adult way by respecting each others mentality and development. we don't condescend each other as if we're teaching a child.
we have our own ways to relate to each other and have our own "language" of sounds and looks that's personal to us, just as many couples that are tight have such relations. but we certainly don't patronize each other by assuming the one of us is incapable or unwilling to learn the truth about the reality we live in, indeed it is our happy pursuit to change ourselves in order to learn this reality.
unlike theists, who prefer to adhere to a prescribed reality and will do anything to refute any evidence of the contrary. such as the ICP and idiots that follow. if write a song titled "miracles" and use the world often in it's lyrics, yet admit to not even bothering to understand the way it's defined in your languages dictionary, then you are either a devout believer of your own personal reality, or willfully ignorant of a reality you know is true and wish wasn't I.E. delusional.
in other words, these clowns are using the English language in ways that well-adjusted people can't relate to. this behaviour is usually called "crazy". yet i bet that ICP and their followers take comfort in the self-imposed ostracizing from society (really, who "kicked them to the curb?") even though no one made fun of them before they started *wanting* to be different. they had nothing special about themselves, so they created this identity, just like any teen-angst-y bunch of people acting out. a desire to be special, yet a desire to non-conform, resulting in creating a separate identity they can all relate to. well done clowns, you have successfully created your own non-existent problem to simultaneously perpetuate an complain about.
the more the rest of us say their ignorant and nuts, the more the clowns say "see? people on the outside looking in don't understand us, that's why we gathered together so we circle-jerk in our own self-imposed support group".
i agree on the kill themselves part, but i'd be quite happy to see them do it slowly and painfully. unless there are too many and the novelty wears off, then they can hurry-the-fuck-up.
you're getting so full of abuse and contradictions that it makes no sense to continue with you. i'm only happy your behaviour is available for others to see and learn from.
listen, i get that they are using "miracle" as the word to describe how much they "appreciate" the things they mention in the song, what i don't get is you and they both believe "understanding" gets in the way *of* that appreciation.
it's a romanticized world view that prefers to remain ignorant, instead of learning the *why* and only enjoying the *what*. like a child that doesn't want to grow up for fear they'll never appreciate magic shows again once they learn how they work. what i disagree with, not fear, is simply the preference to remain ignorant instead of evolving through learning. for the hedonistic idea that they prefer a perpetual state of "wonder" that they believe "understanding" will belittle. willful ignorance.
i have no fear about what they believe, as i don't believe *in* fear. fear is simply the belief that a choice will lead to an undesirable outcome. there is nothing mystical in that, or any "miracle" that the ICP "appreciates". if they want to marvel at the "the sun, the moon, the ocean and stars", that's great, but there is a difference between wondering "wow! that's so cool i wonder how that works", and "wow that's so cool that it looks like magic, i want to stay in this state forever by not learning how the magic is done".
that's the crux of it, a preference to "miracles" over understanding, a willful preference to remain undeveloped. a romanticized preference by an irrational, over-emotional, unstable mentality that prefers it's own "world" to the real world. just like the child resists the parents teaching them all about the real world, because the child's fantasy is much more entertaining with less effort. looking at these clowns, they are just big kids too, they have the most immature lifestyle and world-view, and they sing and entertain other followers about it all. they promote staying in the child's mentality for as long as you can, resisting learning and understanding for fear it will steal the "magic and miracle" away and you'll never be able to "appreciate" it as much.
*THAT* is what i disagree with, and that's what this is all about. the religious deity i mentioned is the same entity that any child would follow and fear, the deity of their own creation. i never mentioned a particular religion, simply a belief, and the belief is the God of ignorant hedonism. these clown kids are afraid to grow up, and are encouraging other people to retard their ways too. the fear is not mine, but the ICP, for they are scared that they will have to grow up into adults and assume the responsibilities that come with that.
you only have to listen to one of the clowns replying to the many reactions to the "miracles" track, to understand that this is an immature child in an adult's body. one who is still seeking an identity, and resisting the outside world because that world doesn't believe in magic the same way. go here: http://www.hollywoodrag.com/index.php?/weblog/insane_clown_posse_on_the/ and notice how this clown describes how even though he sings and performs about "miracles", he doesn't even want to know the dictionary definition of what he promotes to others. this is a person with his own beliefs, and cares less what that may be interpreted as in the real world. this clown is ignorant and delusional.
"We've been "The Most Hated Band in The World" for many years. Without all the hate on the outside, it wouldn't be as warm as it is on the inside with the Juggalo Fam. Instead, all the hate "Miracles" generates makes us sad. Sad for the haters."
here we see that the clowns are a couple of kids that have separated themselves, a resistance to integrate with adult social norms, and have retarded themselves and creates their own identity that suits them, even right down to the visual identity of clown make-up. these are not rational people, these are the actions of someone who refuses to integrate with the rest of society, even to the extent of refusing the accepted defin
i think for the most part, you seem to be saying that understanding has little to do with appreciating the "beauty" of anything, that is, that our happiness shouldn't be dependent on knowledge. understanding shouldn't get in the way. whilst this may be acceptable for some things, to enjoy them without knowing how they work, it is for the most part not applicable on the whole.
you *can* enjoy something without understanding, but that choice of ignorant hedonism over learning will lead a short and fruitless life, as you will not be able to evolve and be happier. to two most important things for a human are health and education, you need health to stay alive, and education to evolve and change. neither of which happen if we all sit back and marvel at "miracles" without wanting to know how things work. we need to keep changing and evolving through health and education, otherwise we remain in the caves and die when one of the many possible Extinction Level Events hits our species.
none of this changes the fact that this song DOES promote mysticism over education.
do you really prefer to live in a state where you never create anything yourself, only to self-gratifyingly enjoy wondering and enjoying the awe of what already exists?
don't you like the idea of being responsible for your own life and create better things and being happier through your own advancement, creating more than there already is?
"But to sit there and appreciate their beauty and power when viewing them instead of concerning ourselves with exactly how they are made or what chemicals caused what, allows us to enjoy them more, its the magic of the event. And yes, Magic is used figuratively."
who said anything about not being able to enjoy them due to understanding? i simply said it's my preference to understand, so as to be able to create better things and enjoy *them*. i don't want to stay 2 years old forever wondering about unicorns and rainbows. our brains don't work like that, we have information pouring into our brains 24hrs non-stop and we constantly try to make meaning out of all the data, we evolve. it's increasingly more difficult to remain ignorant due to this process, requiring all sorts of effort to stop information entering our senses in case we accidentally process it and figure how things work. witness all of history with dictators and cult leaders trying to keep the peasants stagnant by outlawing reading & writing, trying to stop people evolving and getting more enlightened. trying to stop wisdom.
do you believe that deep meditation is a bad thing for wishing to understand the universe and how it works, trying to seek out the greater truths that lead to greater happiness? would you tell Buddhist monks that their pursuit of ultimate knowledge and peace is a futile one that will lead to a loss of wonder and "magic" ?
"But you see, all that aside, you are still missing the point. What's the difference between a man made hill and a small mountain? Very little when you are enjoying the beauty of it and the wild life surrounding it. You skip the details and appreciate the real things that have value to you- you seize the moment more or less."
say you, to the rest of us we place value on what we identify and believe in. if we built that hill, then we may value it for it's use to us (we built it for a reason yes?), and just because you say so doesn't make it so. you can't tell the rest of us "...You skip the details and appreciate the real things that have value to you- you seize the moment more or less...", as it's up to the individual what the appreciate and *why*. maybe we like the details, maybe we like the understanding of the knowledge that went into the creation of the hill. maybe we are happy evolving to a state that we can understand the purpose and mechanism of how to build a hill. maybe we're proud of our achievement instead of remaining ignorant of the mountain and thinking "i wonder how that mountain came to be". doesn't the very fact a state of *wonder* suggest to you a desire to *know* ?
"..., it's about not letting the understanding get in the way of the enjoyment..." yes, to YOU. you *have* been saying that knowledge and understanding is counter to appreciating the "magic and wonder" of the sensed state. don't try and back-track now and say you weren't in agreement with the ICP's stance that knowledge is counter to appreciating the magic of this universe. stick by your original comment unless you want to recount it and admit you were mistaken.
"...why would a closer relationship with reality require anything more then appreciating what is around you?..." really? you believe you can achieve a closer relationship with reality without knowledge, learning, and understanding? please enlighten the rest of us poor idiots doing it the hard way educating ourselves.
"...I know that the reality of the situation is that gravity exists and has certain behaviors, but we don't know for a fact why it exists, and we can't recreate it in it's entirety in any experiments. that doesn't mean it isn't a reality though..." yes, we don't know the
exactly, there are some of us that actually *like* knowing why things happen, appreciating them more because of it. some call it *wisdom*. knowing one things leads onto another, and if you're clever about your choices you can lead yourself to more happiness, or at least *learn* why it didn't and ensure the same mistake doesn't repeat. how many of us would be as happy today with our childhood toys?
is it better to simply know what *is*, or better to understand *why* ?
"....it does take some of the mystery and excitement out of your irrational longing for their booty......."
again, i must ask why is there a wish to stagnate and stall the advancement of the universe because of a desire to never wonder at more than *this* ?
you learn something, which leads to better wonders as yet unexplained. why is there a desire to remain in stasis, never to upgrade yourself to ever more happiness? do these people *really* bemoan the exploration and advancement of knowledge that explained the world's shape, the space that the stars live in, the nature of DNA, electricity, the wheel, the computer...were these all evil advancements of knowledge that "stole" magic and wonder? does understanding how your taste buds work take away your pleasure of your food?
the only reason for willful ignorance is a fear of knowledge that would offend a deity, or fear that we will reach an "end" that would harm us. a willful desire to remain ignorant to make sure that you don't get too close to the "unknown", a fear of the unknown that is ancient as it is useless. for those that wish to remain ignorant in fear of what knowledge brings, let them. but they must also let the remaining explorers do what they enjoy too, and that is to know everything due to a insatiable desire to have ever increasing happiness.
i think you are missing their entire point of science and evolution, as well as the people that appreciate them. how exactly *do* you appreciate something without understanding? isn't the very act of appreciating the process of understanding?
if you understand little about something, then it has little meaning, hence little appreciation. appreciation is the concept of understanding something in an increasing manner, such that it is connected to other knowledge, hence understanding it's place in everything and it's comparative value.
humans identify by comparison,value is identified the same way. if you can't compare things, they have less meaning and hence you have little clue as to their value.
on contrary, science is the very essence of understanding and placing things in context,helping to better understand the universe and it's components. by doing this we better understand the meaning of things and can appraise them with a more accurate value, hence more efficiently relating to them and letting us continue to evolve towards more awesome things.
why is understanding "boring" ? why is the pursuit of knowledge and a better understanding of external reality a sin? isn't to have a closer relationship with reality the ultimate goal, what could possibly be more important?
why is the rainbow or child-birth less appreciated because of a more accurate understanding of the *how* of it all? you sound just like the ICP believing that the pursuit of knowledge is evil and undermines the "wonder and magic" of the universe through human meddling.
also, what's this rubbish about "takes away the subliminal meaning..." ?
are saying you somehow believe there is an unconscious meaning behind these things, and that we are worse off by "learning" what makes these things happen?
clearly you are indeed as bad as the ICP for your penchant for ignorance.
your belief in miracles that are "greater than you" shows you really do not want to learn and grow into anything more than you are. you are against the very nature of learning, science, and evolution. i bet you wear your ICP make-up with pride while saying other people shouldn't be allowed to practice what the ICP does" freedom of speech.
you say we don't get it, yet you are only showing your bias and ignorance by saying ICP is fine for propagating their beliefs,while science-lovers shouldn't be allowed t express their belief of knowledge over ignorance.
ICP fans do't like the nerd-class, well other people didn't like the ICP result of ignorance and decided to do some propagating of their own. yet you believe that only ICP should be allowed to spread their beliefs?
you don't get it, you think it should be one-sided for the ICP and nay-sayers should just shut up and tolerate it. well, thanks to freedom of expression (what's lft of it) we are free to choose NOT to lie the idea of ignorance, and to teach people a better way according to US.
we could do without you trying to insert the ignorance of "subliminal" magic and wonder into the world,but you know what? we're fine to ALLOW you to act on your beliefs, as long as you're fine allowing the rest of us the same courtesy.
to claim that we shouldn't analyze and explain things away because it "makes it boring and less wondrous" is to condemn yourself to a life that believes you can't be happier with knowledge.
well the rest of us believe there is more wonder in the universe to enjoy through the exploration and understanding of it.
you're free to enjoy your beliefs, now allow those of us that enjoy learning and teaching knowledge to enjoy our beliefs.
i remember STACKS, FCBS, and LASTDRIVE tweaks.
you'd set it to LASTDRIVE=D or something so it does not allocate 96 bytes per drive letter that doesn't exist!
Slashdot Mirror
hmm, very odd, as all i see is this, even the "preview" strips all formatting out, so at least in that context it's "honest" :)
https://imgur.com/a/CMozG
how is anyone supposed to compose a post with this behaviour, or is it something only on my end ??
bugger, forgot link to Apple story about firing their diversity chief: http://fortune.com/2017/11/16/... P.S. seriously, no line breaks and i can't edit comments either ??
"Some companies take advantage of female employees. Have for *decades*. That includes both male and female bosses" Some do, the vast majority don't. Is that the standard for "institutionalised wage gap" ? I'm in favour of merit-based hiring, so i simply do not agree with the trend for "diversity and inclusion" as the current bandwagon exists. Apple fired a 20 year veteran, who was their "diversity chief" for only 6 months, because she would NOT discriminate against white males. “There can be 12 white, blue-eyed, blonde men in a room and they’re going to be diverse too because they’re going to bring a different life experience and life perspective to the conversation.” If you segregate people by race, colour, creed, sexuality, disability" and whatever other lines you want to draw, you get nowhere. You can't campaign for "equality" while simultaneously separating people into increasingly diverse boxes that prove they're "different" and somehow need handicap bonuses like affirmative action. It's as ridiculous as feminists one moment campaigning for "equality" by claiming they're equally competent as a man and literally "don't need a man", while simultaneously campaigning for lower standards to entry for everything from military, police, firefighter, etc. If you're equally capable, then you have the obligation to be equally tested. No handicap bonuses. Nobody is campaigning for "equality" and "equal representation" in the 100 meters Olympics: where the white people at ? So which is it, are women, blacks, hispanics, etc equal, or need help because they're inferior ? P.S. WTF, why aren't there any line breaks in my posts ??
because with a large enough sample, individual deviations for things like actual hours worked and the strengths and weaknesses for particular work-related skills should even-out.
That's exactly how the myth of the "gender wage gap" was started, ignoring the fact different people WITHIN THE SAME JOB, worked different hours, etc. So which is it: 1) the gender wage gap exists and is proved when we examine the average worker in each job, ignoring hours worked. ...
2) "individual deviations for things like actual hours worked and the strengths and weaknesses for particular work-related skills should even-out."
Pick one.
Actually it's worse than that.
"The Pokemon Company" usually makes the games, and Nintendo owns 32% stake in that company. Pokemon Go, is made by Niantic, the same company that made the Android game "Ingress".
The Pokemon Company licensed the Pokemon IP to Niantic, so we can guess the usual, less than 10% royalties.
This means Nintendo is receiving money from their 32% stake in The Pokemon Company, which itself is only receiving less than 10% from Niantic's Pokemon Go
After all why would you buy a Chromebook that ONLY works on the net...
ah, that old debunked chestnut, you've been swallowing Microsoft's "Scroogled" Ads haven't you ?
"It's banana shaped to fit nicely in my chimp-hand." well if this doesn't prove God exists i don't know what does :)
right, because people use their phones for PHONEcalls...owait, no they don't generally. . Data overtakes voice use: http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/14/technology/personaltech/14talk.html ..
Smart-phones outnumber feature phones in US:
http://techland.time.com/2012/03/01/smartphones-outnumber-feature-phones-in-u-s-for-first-time/ ..
Smartphones Finally Overtook Dumbphone Sales Globally:
http://techcrunch.com/2013/08/14/gartner-q2-smartphone/ ..
Smartphones to outnumber feature phones in Kenya by end of 2013:
http://www.humanipo.com/news/32204/smartphones-to-outnumber-feature-phones-in-kenya-by-end-of-2013/ ..
So basically, the planet is evolving towards using smartphones more than featurephones, and Voice is being overtaken by data on these devices, even in 3rd-Word countries. ..
So why do we need to prioritize a curved phone for phone-calls again ?
since when is "easier to hold" prioritized over "easier to view" ?
in fact my partner being like-minded finds such expression quite flattering. we relate to each other in such ways as to express how we think about each other regarding looks, behaviour, intention, etc. when she says i look "healthy" and "happy" it's a good thing to me, just as when i describe her as "assertive" and "strategic", she finds that a turn on too.
we don't say things like "oh baby, we were meant to be together as kindred spirits. i knew it in my heart the moment i sensed your aura!".
we don't think like that, so we don't behave like that, by ourselves or towards each other. when one of us asks how/why something works, the other doesn't respond "magic man done it!". we explain in an adult way by respecting each others mentality and development. we don't condescend each other as if we're teaching a child.
we have our own ways to relate to each other and have our own "language" of sounds and looks that's personal to us, just as many couples that are tight have such relations. but we certainly don't patronize each other by assuming the one of us is incapable or unwilling to learn the truth about the reality we live in, indeed it is our happy pursuit to change ourselves in order to learn this reality.
unlike theists, who prefer to adhere to a prescribed reality and will do anything to refute any evidence of the contrary. such as the ICP and idiots that follow. if write a song titled "miracles" and use the world often in it's lyrics, yet admit to not even bothering to understand the way it's defined in your languages dictionary, then you are either a devout believer of your own personal reality, or willfully ignorant of a reality you know is true and wish wasn't I.E. delusional.
in other words, these clowns are using the English language in ways that well-adjusted people can't relate to. this behaviour is usually called "crazy". yet i bet that ICP and their followers take comfort in the self-imposed ostracizing from society (really, who "kicked them to the curb?") even though no one made fun of them before they started *wanting* to be different. they had nothing special about themselves, so they created this identity, just like any teen-angst-y bunch of people acting out. a desire to be special, yet a desire to non-conform, resulting in creating a separate identity they can all relate to. well done clowns, you have successfully created your own non-existent problem to simultaneously perpetuate an complain about.
the more the rest of us say their ignorant and nuts, the more the clowns say "see? people on the outside looking in don't understand us, that's why we gathered together so we circle-jerk in our own self-imposed support group".
perpetual, hypocritical bullshit.
i agree on the kill themselves part, but i'd be quite happy to see them do it slowly and painfully. unless there are too many and the novelty wears off, then they can hurry-the-fuck-up.
you're getting so full of abuse and contradictions that it makes no sense to continue with you. i'm only happy your behaviour is available for others to see and learn from.
listen, i get that they are using "miracle" as the word to describe how much they "appreciate" the things they mention in the song, what i don't get is you and they both believe "understanding" gets in the way *of* that appreciation.
it's a romanticized world view that prefers to remain ignorant, instead of learning the *why* and only enjoying the *what*. like a child that doesn't want to grow up for fear they'll never appreciate magic shows again once they learn how they work. what i disagree with, not fear, is simply the preference to remain ignorant instead of evolving through learning. for the hedonistic idea that they prefer a perpetual state of "wonder" that they believe "understanding" will belittle. willful ignorance.
i have no fear about what they believe, as i don't believe *in* fear. fear is simply the belief that a choice will lead to an undesirable outcome. there is nothing mystical in that, or any "miracle" that the ICP "appreciates". if they want to marvel at the "the sun, the moon, the ocean and stars", that's great, but there is a difference between wondering "wow! that's so cool i wonder how that works", and "wow that's so cool that it looks like magic, i want to stay in this state forever by not learning how the magic is done".
that's the crux of it, a preference to "miracles" over understanding, a willful preference to remain undeveloped. a romanticized preference by an irrational, over-emotional, unstable mentality that prefers it's own "world" to the real world. just like the child resists the parents teaching them all about the real world, because the child's fantasy is much more entertaining with less effort. looking at these clowns, they are just big kids too, they have the most immature lifestyle and world-view, and they sing and entertain other followers about it all. they promote staying in the child's mentality for as long as you can, resisting learning and understanding for fear it will steal the "magic and miracle" away and you'll never be able to "appreciate" it as much.
*THAT* is what i disagree with, and that's what this is all about. the religious deity i mentioned is the same entity that any child would follow and fear, the deity of their own creation. i never mentioned a particular religion, simply a belief, and the belief is the God of ignorant hedonism. these clown kids are afraid to grow up, and are encouraging other people to retard their ways too. the fear is not mine, but the ICP, for they are scared that they will have to grow up into adults and assume the responsibilities that come with that.
you only have to listen to one of the clowns replying to the many reactions to the "miracles" track, to understand that this is an immature child in an adult's body. one who is still seeking an identity, and resisting the outside world because that world doesn't believe in magic the same way.
go here: http://www.hollywoodrag.com/index.php?/weblog/insane_clown_posse_on_the/
and notice how this clown describes how even though he sings and performs about "miracles", he doesn't even want to know the dictionary definition of what he promotes to others. this is a person with his own beliefs, and cares less what that may be interpreted as in the real world. this clown is ignorant and delusional.
"We've been "The Most Hated Band in The World" for many years. Without all the hate on the outside, it wouldn't be as warm as it is on the inside with the Juggalo Fam. Instead, all the hate "Miracles" generates makes us sad. Sad for the haters."
here we see that the clowns are a couple of kids that have separated themselves, a resistance to integrate with adult social norms, and have retarded themselves and creates their own identity that suits them, even right down to the visual identity of clown make-up. these are not rational people, these are the actions of someone who refuses to integrate with the rest of society, even to the extent of refusing the accepted defin
i think for the most part, you seem to be saying that understanding has little to do with appreciating the "beauty" of anything, that is, that our happiness shouldn't be dependent on knowledge. understanding shouldn't get in the way. whilst this may be acceptable for some things, to enjoy them without knowing how they work, it is for the most part not applicable on the whole.
you *can* enjoy something without understanding, but that choice of ignorant hedonism over learning will lead a short and fruitless life, as you will not be able to evolve and be happier. to two most important things for a human are health and education, you need health to stay alive, and education to evolve and change. neither of which happen if we all sit back and marvel at "miracles" without wanting to know how things work. we need to keep changing and evolving through health and education, otherwise we remain in the caves and die when one of the many possible Extinction Level Events hits our species.
none of this changes the fact that this song DOES promote mysticism over education.
do you really prefer to live in a state where you never create anything yourself, only to self-gratifyingly enjoy wondering and enjoying the awe of what already exists?
don't you like the idea of being responsible for your own life and create better things and being happier through your own advancement, creating more than there already is?
"But to sit there and appreciate their beauty and power when viewing them instead of concerning ourselves with exactly how they are made or what chemicals caused what, allows us to enjoy them more, its the magic of the event. And yes, Magic is used figuratively."
who said anything about not being able to enjoy them due to understanding? i simply said it's my preference to understand, so as to be able to create better things and enjoy *them*. i don't want to stay 2 years old forever wondering about unicorns and rainbows. our brains don't work like that, we have information pouring into our brains 24hrs non-stop and we constantly try to make meaning out of all the data, we evolve. it's increasingly more difficult to remain ignorant due to this process, requiring all sorts of effort to stop information entering our senses in case we accidentally process it and figure how things work. witness all of history with dictators and cult leaders trying to keep the peasants stagnant by outlawing reading & writing, trying to stop people evolving and getting more enlightened. trying to stop wisdom.
do you believe that deep meditation is a bad thing for wishing to understand the universe and how it works, trying to seek out the greater truths that lead to greater happiness? would you tell Buddhist monks that their pursuit of ultimate knowledge and peace is a futile one that will lead to a loss of wonder and "magic" ?
"But you see, all that aside, you are still missing the point. What's the difference between a man made hill and a small mountain? Very little when you are enjoying the beauty of it and the wild life surrounding it. You skip the details and appreciate the real things that have value to you- you seize the moment more or less."
say you, to the rest of us we place value on what we identify and believe in. if we built that hill, then we may value it for it's use to us (we built it for a reason yes?), and just because you say so doesn't make it so. you can't tell the rest of us "...You skip the details and appreciate the real things that have value to you- you seize the moment more or less...", as it's up to the individual what the appreciate and *why*. maybe we like the details, maybe we like the understanding of the knowledge that went into the creation of the hill. maybe we are happy evolving to a state that we can understand the purpose and mechanism of how to build a hill. maybe we're proud of our achievement instead of remaining ignorant of the mountain and thinking "i wonder how that mountain came to be". doesn't the very fact a state of *wonder* suggest to you a desire to *know* ?
"..., it's about not letting the understanding get in the way of the enjoyment..."
yes, to YOU.
you *have* been saying that knowledge and understanding is counter to appreciating the "magic and wonder" of the sensed state. don't try and back-track now and say you weren't in agreement with the ICP's stance that knowledge is counter to appreciating the magic of this universe. stick by your original comment unless you want to recount it and admit you were mistaken.
"...why would a closer relationship with reality require anything more then appreciating what is around you?..." really? you believe you can achieve a closer relationship with reality without knowledge, learning, and understanding? please enlighten the rest of us poor idiots doing it the hard way educating ourselves.
"...I know that the reality of the situation is that gravity exists and has certain behaviors, but we don't know for a fact why it exists, and we can't recreate it in it's entirety in any experiments. that doesn't mean it isn't a reality though..." yes, we don't know the
exactly, there are some of us that actually *like* knowing why things happen, appreciating them more because of it. some call it *wisdom*. knowing one things leads onto another, and if you're clever about your choices you can lead yourself to more happiness, or at least *learn* why it didn't and ensure the same mistake doesn't repeat. how many of us would be as happy today with our childhood toys?
is it better to simply know what *is*, or better to understand *why* ?
i prefer to know as much as possible.
"....it does take some of the mystery and excitement out of your irrational longing for their booty......."
again, i must ask why is there a wish to stagnate and stall the advancement of the universe because of a desire to never wonder at more than *this* ?
you learn something, which leads to better wonders as yet unexplained. why is there a desire to remain in stasis, never to upgrade yourself to ever more happiness? do these people *really* bemoan the exploration and advancement of knowledge that explained the world's shape, the space that the stars live in, the nature of DNA, electricity, the wheel, the computer...were these all evil advancements of knowledge that "stole" magic and wonder? does understanding how your taste buds work take away your pleasure of your food?
the only reason for willful ignorance is a fear of knowledge that would offend a deity, or fear that we will reach an "end" that would harm us. a willful desire to remain ignorant to make sure that you don't get too close to the "unknown", a fear of the unknown that is ancient as it is useless. for those that wish to remain ignorant in fear of what knowledge brings, let them. but they must also let the remaining explorers do what they enjoy too, and that is to know everything due to a insatiable desire to have ever increasing happiness.
i think you are missing their entire point of science and evolution, as well as the people that appreciate them. how exactly *do* you appreciate something without understanding? isn't the very act of appreciating the process of understanding?
if you understand little about something, then it has little meaning, hence little appreciation. appreciation is the concept of understanding something in an increasing manner, such that it is connected to other knowledge, hence understanding it's place in everything and it's comparative value.
humans identify by comparison,value is identified the same way. if you can't compare things, they have less meaning and hence you have little clue as to their value.
on contrary, science is the very essence of understanding and placing things in context,helping to better understand the universe and it's components. by doing this we better understand the meaning of things and can appraise them with a more accurate value, hence more efficiently relating to them and letting us continue to evolve towards more awesome things.
why is understanding "boring" ? why is the pursuit of knowledge and a better understanding of external reality a sin? isn't to have a closer relationship with reality the ultimate goal, what could possibly be more important?
why is the rainbow or child-birth less appreciated because of a more accurate understanding of the *how* of it all? you sound just like the ICP believing that the pursuit of knowledge is evil and undermines the "wonder and magic" of the universe through human meddling.
also, what's this rubbish about "takes away the subliminal meaning..." ?
are saying you somehow believe there is an unconscious meaning behind these things, and that we are worse off by "learning" what makes these things happen?
clearly you are indeed as bad as the ICP for your penchant for ignorance.
your belief in miracles that are "greater than you" shows you really do not want to learn and grow into anything more than you are. you are against the very nature of learning, science, and evolution. i bet you wear your ICP make-up with pride while saying other people shouldn't be allowed to practice what the ICP does" freedom of speech.
you say we don't get it, yet you are only showing your bias and ignorance by saying ICP is fine for propagating their beliefs,while science-lovers shouldn't be allowed t express their belief of knowledge over ignorance.
ICP fans do't like the nerd-class, well other people didn't like the ICP result of ignorance and decided to do some propagating of their own. yet you believe that only ICP should be allowed to spread their beliefs?
you don't get it, you think it should be one-sided for the ICP and nay-sayers should just shut up and tolerate it. well, thanks to freedom of expression (what's lft of it) we are free to choose NOT to lie the idea of ignorance, and to teach people a better way according to US.
we could do without you trying to insert the ignorance of "subliminal" magic and wonder into the world,but you know what? we're fine to ALLOW you to act on your beliefs, as long as you're fine allowing the rest of us the same courtesy.
to claim that we shouldn't analyze and explain things away because it "makes it boring and less wondrous" is to condemn yourself to a life that believes you can't be happier with knowledge.
well the rest of us believe there is more wonder in the universe to enjoy through the exploration and understanding of it.
you're free to enjoy your beliefs, now allow those of us that enjoy learning and teaching knowledge to enjoy our beliefs.
i remember STACKS, FCBS, and LASTDRIVE tweaks. you'd set it to LASTDRIVE=D or something so it does not allocate 96 bytes per drive letter that doesn't exist!