I don't know about that statement, that Libertarians are generally smarter. Harry Browne is certainly intelligent and articulate, but I wonder just how much the other Lib candidates in other races compare.
I listened to a round table debate of all the candidates running for senate in California (where I live). Gail Lightfoot was the Lib senate candidate, and boy oh boy, what a crackpot. One of her talking points concerned the illegitimate government intrusion in the auto industry regarding seat belts. I am paraphrasing: "I never wear seatbelts because the Cato Institute says that it's not proven that they help save lives." Regardless of what that right wing think tank suggests, it's hard to dispute that seat belts to make riding in a car safer.
She also toed the general Libertarian stuff about the government that governs best governs least. I agree with that, but not in the Libertarian way.
Conversely, I was very impressed with Medea Benjamin, the Green party candidate. Since I hate DiFi, who refused to debate anyone but the Republican Tom Campbell, who's actually more liberal than DiFi, a true Rockefeller Republican, I voted for this amazingly articulate and intelligent Green candidate.
If I was a Libertarian, which at one point I was (when I was younger - MUCH younger, had lots to learn about the way things work), I doubt I would have voted for Lightfoot anyway, because she came off as this nutty old biddy. ------------------------------------------ --------------- I bent my wookie
Ummm. Didn't you know that in this country, as long as you come from a wealthy, politically connected family, what you do in your youth matters not a whit.
The rest of us are supposed to suck it up, because the unwashed can't handle their drugs like Gores and Bushes can. Drugs will mess your brain, they say. Make you crazy, defeat your will and ambition.
That Bush and Gore admit their drug use, invalidates that supposition, don't you suppose? ------------------------------------------------ --------- I bent my wookie
We got tobacco from the Indians... Although we were happy to trade them Whiskey. ---------------------------------------- ----------------- I bent my wookie
I think it's the "Stuff that matters" portion of the site's description, you tech-head. There is a larger world beyond nifty gadgets and UNIX. If a general election isn't "Stuff that matters", then how can all that flap about the stupid CueCat barcode scanners? If you're not a United Statesian, I think there should also be info about elections in Europe, Canada, and anywhere else political decisions impact our personal, work and geeky hobby lives. ------------------------------------------ --------------- I bent my wookie
Yeah. I don't quite get what the point was, but it should get moddded up to like 15, everyone needs to know those words. 'Fucktrophy'! that's classic. ---------------------------------------- ----------------- I bent my wookie
Some people think Iran has the right idea, just the wrong religion. There are people out there that believe that the U.S. should become a theocracy, a Christian state. Check this out:ShadowGov
These people are, in my estimation, traitors, and they should be uncovered, exposed, and tried for sedition and treason. They should be hunted down like the miserable dogs they are, and given no quarter. They are anti-Republic, anti-Democratic, and want to replace our justice system with a set of kangaroo courts. ------------------------------------------------ --------- I bent my wookie
Can anyone here name the member of Gov. Bush's staff, who may be slated for a cabinet office (Department of Energy!) who has a Chevron oil tanker named after her?
Ok, here's the answer: Congaleeza Rice. Bush's advisor on energy policy. Gee, I wonder what her favorite fuel is?
I saw in it Harper's index. BTW what kind of name is 'Congaleeza'? That's just plain weird. ------------------------------------------ --------------- I bent my wookie
And, of course, that is a pecadillo compared to trading arms for hostages, selling drugs to finance death squads in Central America, invading Grenada, Marines getting killed in Beirut, and a national defense policy that successfuly bankrupted the Soviets at the expense of a couple of generations' education and health care.
But at least Reagan and Bush, Sr. weren't getting blow jobs in the Oval Office. Horror!
------------------------------------------------ --------- I bent my wookie
Point one: Abortion is not necessarily "baby murder". In the first trimester, you'd be hard pressed to determine that the embryo is that of one belonging to a human or to a fish. After that, you know what? I still don't consider it a person.
Point two: Against abortion? Don't have one.
Point three: Abortion is rarely used as a form of birth control. Do the actions of a small minority justify the elimination of the practice altogether? I've also noticed that a lot of people who oppose abortion also oppose birth control. The "Just say no" method doesn't work AT ALL.
Point four: I think that if you're a real pro-lifer, then you'll gladly volunteer to support these unwanted children. What Janeane Garofalo calls "The Buddy System".
------------------------------------------------ --------- I bent my wookie
Some of the hard-edged "Christian" folks who believe that the REAL best government that we could have would be a theocracy. In fact, they point to the theocracy in Iran and say "That's the way to do it, they just have the wrong religion." If you doubt me, checkout Shadow Gov ------------------------------------------------ --------- I bent my wookie
YEAH, baby. Finally someone says it. Good on ya. These 'sovreignty' kooks really blow my mind. Let me get this straight... The UN is going to take over the world, led by the anitchrist, who is gonna be the head of the EC. That's where this anti-global right wing stuff comes from. Where do you people come up with this stuff? It's like the friggin' Gnomes of Zurich or Illuminati.
For those of you who don't get it - the U.N. is a Good Thing. We are living in an era where physical borders are becoming more and more irrelevant, yet there's this nutty stuff about black helicopters. I remember the whole deal where Clinton was gonna declare martial law and bring in the UN after New Year's 2000. Still waiting for that to happen.
Of all the things in the world to worry about, they choose THIS? Geez. Get over it, don't waste any more brain cells thinking about it, it ain't gonna happen. ----------------------------------------- ---------------- Surface dwellers can be so stupid.
I concur. Income tax taxes the exactly wrong thing. Instead of taxing spending, which is where you should be getting the money, we tax people for saving, or making investements. Granted, the best thing would be to live purely off capital gains, that way you never pay more than ~21% or so, as opposed to the 30+% that I pay now. That's one thing were I think the libertarians have the right idea.
Of course, if we were socialist, we'd have higher taxes, but you get what you pay for.Lots of stuff that we normally force people or companies to pay for (health insurance - what a scam). When Clinton launched the Health Care reform thing, you know who hated it? Guess -- insurance companies, drug companies. Why? They'd no longer be able to fleece us and our employers. So what did they do? Launched a focused campaign to nail Clinton on it, and they got in touch with a bunch of Republicans in the congress to scream "socialism!!". The outcome? The HMO's that we all love so much. Any time anyone mentioned that EVERY other country in the WORLD has socialized medicine, they'd trot out all these horror stories about National Health in Canada or Britain, while all the time knowing that most Canadians think that their national health is just fine. I have a chronic condition, and my insurance company *HATES* me because of it. If they had their way, I'd be up the creek. ------------------------------------------------ --------- Surface dwellers can be so stupid.
Or you can do what most people will probably do in the libertarian paradise: let those people rot. We live in a society. YES! It is your responsibility. Some of these folks sound like objectivist Randroids. ------------------------------------------------ --------- Surface dwellers can be so stupid.
Hey, don't get rid of BLM land, that's where I do a lot of my hunting!! --------------------------------------- ------------------ Surface dwellers can be so stupid.
That's OK, because I'm an ultra liberal, Tikka rifle owning, revolution-waiting communist Che Guevara hero-having type who can't wait to take a crack at your reactionary cracker white devil selfish ass. ------------------------------------------------ --------- Surface dwellers can be so stupid.
You got that right. Sorry folks, but I just don't trust the 'free market' enough to let it run everything. What happens when the free market makes a mistake? You can say "vote with your money", but what can you do when everything out there is made by a handful of multinational corporations? ----------------------------------- ---------------------- Surface dwellers can be so stupid.
That's what Harry Browne is saying and it's what Libertarianism is all about - take care of that which is important to you,whatever that may be, and don't force others to join your crusade.
I hope that isn't the crux of libertarianism. "I'll just worry about me and mine, and let Adam Smith's invisible hand take care of the rest." Please. For all the talk about socialism being bunk, I don't see too many people here acknowledging what is also accepted about capitalism: the invisible hand doesn't work, either.
Your statement regarding the environment is a great example. On the dark side, by the time the Sierra Club gets enough dough together to "buy" Yosemite, they won't be negotiating the terms of sale with the government, they'll be negotiating with the corporation that owns it and wants to decimate it for the resources, and that'll be a tough deal to negotiate.
It seems that libertarians have a rather rosy view of corporations. Look at history, though. Companies cannot be trusted to do the right thing. They sometimes to the right thing, sometimes, though, they do the wrong thing, and which option they choose has nothing to do with ethics, and everything to do with the bottom line.
This, ultimately, is why I can't get into Libertarianism. I just can't trust private enterprise. Neither can you, neither can future generations. If anything, corporations need to be more limited, not less.
Here's another example. When a car has a defect that can result in injury or death, the manufacturer runs the numbers: either they issue a recall or deal with the lawsuits, whichever is cheaper. Recalling the vehicle and fixing the defect for free is the ethical thing to do, but they don't always do that , do they?
People fault socialists so much gleefully pointing out "See!! See!! The Soviet Union cracked up! Socialism is bunk! We told you so!" Never mind those who think that socialism comes from the devil. However, laissez-faire capitalism isn't very cool, either. If you dispute this, go work in a maquiladora in Mexico. One of the fundamental aspects of capitalism is that someone has to be exploited. If there wasn't someone (the government) out there to watch over these things, we'd all be in a bad way. ------------------------------------------------ --------- Surface dwellers can be so stupid.
Yeah, that's where he got his name ( said so in the NYM article) ---------------------------------------- ----------------- Surface dwellers can be so stupid.
That's treason. ---------------------------------------- ----------------- Surface dwellers can be so stupid.
Local Elections are most important
on
Should You Vote?
·
· Score: 1
I totally understand the frustration we all feel with regards to the presidential election. I think that the major candidates are both fairly lackluster.
However, I will be truckin' my cookies down to the polls because I want to make sure that my state assembly rep wins. I know her and think she's been doing a great job, and she's not even affiliated with ANY political party. I want to vote against school vouchers, which are on the ballot here in California. Remember folks, there's more than just the president on that ballot. There really is stuff on there that matters, that will affect you. Think what would happen if you didn't vote, and the next thing you know, the school board, which got filled with religious nuts because you couldn't be bothered to vote, takes the theory of evolution out of the curriculum. You'd be kicking yourself! Think of your town, your state, stuff that really does affect you.
So the point is, you don't even HAVE to vote for the prez. If you don't like any of them, then just don't make any selections in that portion of the ballot. But not voting is in a very real way giving up your say in local matters as well as federal matters. So vote, or don't vote, but realize that voting *does* affect your life. ------------------------------------------- -------------- Surface dwellers can be so stupid.
Tell that to the Norwegians, Swedes, Finns, Danish, Dutch, Irish, French, Costa Ricans, Egyptians, Tunisians, Moroccans, Vietnamese, and the bunches of other nations that have a flavor of socialism.
Your statement only reflects the notion that you have NO IDEA WHAT YOU'RE TALKING about... ---------------------------------------- ----------------- Surface dwellers can be so stupid.
Private industry thought of something *like* the internet. In 1995, when the web got popular, Microsoft said "Hey, who needs that? We'll come up with our own on-line thing, and no-one will even care about this internet thing in a year." Thus, the first (and hugely unsuccessful) iteration of MSN. So, yes, private industry would have come up with this, in fact, CompuServe, etc., were on the scene before the web got big. The key difference is that the net was bigger, and with those fat government research dollars was totally in place when it was released to the general public's access.
So, yes, libertarians, I guess you must really be enamored of the idea of using a totally proprietary closed-sourced netowrk system developed by Microsoft or whoever, (AOL?). I agree with the lib's point of view of personal freedom, but their black-and-white view of all government is bad is freaky to me.
The thought of private police forces send chills up my spine, and it should yours as well. The 'invisible hand' is not something to rely on.
I will vote this year, I always do. I am conflicted, however. I am very liberal in general, but I am also an exception. I am a gun owner, and the democrats seem to have been taken over by hysterical cultural types who think gun owners are all potential mass murderers. Unfortunately, the only party that seems to have a handle on the 2nd amendment seem to be the repubs, but I'll be damned if I vote for them, because they want to outlaw abortions and teach my kids bogus "creation science". So what's a guy to do? Vote for a third party candidate that's a little more together? I dunno. Luckily I live on the west coast, so if I wait to vote until later that day, I can safely vote for the candidate that most appeals to me. Otherwise, I'll go for Gore, because I believe that at the end of the day, he'll do less damage. Privatization is not a silver bullet. Talk to the British about privatization, and all the wonderful 'benefits' it has bestowed on them.
------------------------------------------------ --------- Surface dwellers can be so stupid.
All the statistics about gun ownership indicate that the majority of gun owners in this country are white, educated, and middle class to upper middle class. So I guess that shoots your theory about rednecks and thugs. ------------------------------------------ --------------- Surface dwellers can be so stupid.
Slashdot Mirror
Conceding an election is in no way legally binding, so shove it.- ------------
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I bent my wookie
I listened to a round table debate of all the candidates running for senate in California (where I live). Gail Lightfoot was the Lib senate candidate, and boy oh boy, what a crackpot. One of her talking points concerned the illegitimate government intrusion in the auto industry regarding seat belts. I am paraphrasing: "I never wear seatbelts because the Cato Institute says that it's not proven that they help save lives." Regardless of what that right wing think tank suggests, it's hard to dispute that seat belts to make riding in a car safer.
She also toed the general Libertarian stuff about the government that governs best governs least. I agree with that, but not in the Libertarian way.
Conversely, I was very impressed with Medea Benjamin, the Green party candidate. Since I hate DiFi, who refused to debate anyone but the Republican Tom Campbell, who's actually more liberal than DiFi, a true Rockefeller Republican, I voted for this amazingly articulate and intelligent Green candidate.
If I was a Libertarian, which at one point I was (when I was younger - MUCH younger, had lots to learn about the way things work), I doubt I would have voted for Lightfoot anyway, because she came off as this nutty old biddy.- ---------------
-----------------------------------------
I bent my wookie
The rest of us are supposed to suck it up, because the unwashed can't handle their drugs like Gores and Bushes can. Drugs will mess your brain, they say. Make you crazy, defeat your will and ambition.
That Bush and Gore admit their drug use, invalidates that supposition, don't you suppose?- ---------
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I bent my wookie
We got tobacco from the Indians... Although we were happy to trade them Whiskey.- -----------------
---------------------------------------
I bent my wookie
I think it's the "Stuff that matters" portion of the site's description, you tech-head. There is a larger world beyond nifty gadgets and UNIX. If a general election isn't "Stuff that matters", then how can all that flap about the stupid CueCat barcode scanners? If you're not a United Statesian, I think there should also be info about elections in Europe, Canada, and anywhere else political decisions impact our personal, work and geeky hobby lives.- ---------------
-----------------------------------------
I bent my wookie
Yeah. I don't quite get what the point was, but it should get moddded up to like 15, everyone needs to know those words. 'Fucktrophy'! that's classic.- -----------------
---------------------------------------
I bent my wookie
These people are, in my estimation, traitors, and they should be uncovered, exposed, and tried for sedition and treason. They should be hunted down like the miserable dogs they are, and given no quarter. They are anti-Republic, anti-Democratic, and want to replace our justice system with a set of kangaroo courts.- ---------
-----------------------------------------------
I bent my wookie
Ok, here's the answer: Congaleeza Rice. Bush's advisor on energy policy. Gee, I wonder what her favorite fuel is?
I saw in it Harper's index. BTW what kind of name is 'Congaleeza'? That's just plain weird.- ---------------
-----------------------------------------
I bent my wookie
But at least Reagan and Bush, Sr. weren't getting blow jobs in the Oval Office. Horror!
-----------------------------------------------
I bent my wookie
Point two: Against abortion? Don't have one.
Point three: Abortion is rarely used as a form of birth control. Do the actions of a small minority justify the elimination of the practice altogether? I've also noticed that a lot of people who oppose abortion also oppose birth control. The "Just say no" method doesn't work AT ALL.
Point four: I think that if you're a real pro-lifer, then you'll gladly volunteer to support these unwanted children. What Janeane Garofalo calls "The Buddy System".
-----------------------------------------------
I bent my wookie
Some of the hard-edged "Christian" folks who believe that the REAL best government that we could have would be a theocracy. In fact, they point to the theocracy in Iran and say "That's the way to do it, they just have the wrong religion." If you doubt me, checkout Shadow Gov- ---------
-----------------------------------------------
I bent my wookie
For those of you who don't get it - the U.N. is a Good Thing. We are living in an era where physical borders are becoming more and more irrelevant, yet there's this nutty stuff about black helicopters. I remember the whole deal where Clinton was gonna declare martial law and bring in the UN after New Year's 2000. Still waiting for that to happen.
Of all the things in the world to worry about, they choose THIS? Geez. Get over it, don't waste any more brain cells thinking about it, it ain't gonna happen.- ----------------
----------------------------------------
Surface dwellers can be so stupid.
Of course, if we were socialist, we'd have higher taxes, but you get what you pay for.Lots of stuff that we normally force people or companies to pay for (health insurance - what a scam). When Clinton launched the Health Care reform thing, you know who hated it? Guess -- insurance companies, drug companies. Why? They'd no longer be able to fleece us and our employers. So what did they do? Launched a focused campaign to nail Clinton on it, and they got in touch with a bunch of Republicans in the congress to scream "socialism!!". The outcome? The HMO's that we all love so much. Any time anyone mentioned that EVERY other country in the WORLD has socialized medicine, they'd trot out all these horror stories about National Health in Canada or Britain, while all the time knowing that most Canadians think that their national health is just fine. I have a chronic condition, and my insurance company *HATES* me because of it. If they had their way, I'd be up the creek.- ---------
-----------------------------------------------
Surface dwellers can be so stupid.
Or you can do what most people will probably do in the libertarian paradise: let those people rot. We live in a society. YES! It is your responsibility. Some of these folks sound like objectivist Randroids.- ---------
-----------------------------------------------
Surface dwellers can be so stupid.
Hey, don't get rid of BLM land, that's where I do a lot of my hunting!!- ------------------
--------------------------------------
Surface dwellers can be so stupid.
That's OK, because I'm an ultra liberal, Tikka rifle owning, revolution-waiting communist Che Guevara hero-having type who can't wait to take a crack at your reactionary cracker white devil selfish ass.- ---------
-----------------------------------------------
Surface dwellers can be so stupid.
You got that right. Sorry folks, but I just don't trust the 'free market' enough to let it run everything. What happens when the free market makes a mistake? You can say "vote with your money", but what can you do when everything out there is made by a handful of multinational corporations?- ----------------------
----------------------------------
Surface dwellers can be so stupid.
I hope that isn't the crux of libertarianism. "I'll just worry about me and mine, and let Adam Smith's invisible hand take care of the rest." Please. For all the talk about socialism being bunk, I don't see too many people here acknowledging what is also accepted about capitalism: the invisible hand doesn't work, either.
Your statement regarding the environment is a great example. On the dark side, by the time the Sierra Club gets enough dough together to "buy" Yosemite, they won't be negotiating the terms of sale with the government, they'll be negotiating with the corporation that owns it and wants to decimate it for the resources, and that'll be a tough deal to negotiate.
It seems that libertarians have a rather rosy view of corporations. Look at history, though. Companies cannot be trusted to do the right thing. They sometimes to the right thing, sometimes, though, they do the wrong thing, and which option they choose has nothing to do with ethics, and everything to do with the bottom line.
This, ultimately, is why I can't get into Libertarianism. I just can't trust private enterprise. Neither can you, neither can future generations. If anything, corporations need to be more limited, not less.
Here's another example. When a car has a defect that can result in injury or death, the manufacturer runs the numbers: either they issue a recall or deal with the lawsuits, whichever is cheaper. Recalling the vehicle and fixing the defect for free is the ethical thing to do, but they don't always do that , do they?
People fault socialists so much gleefully pointing out "See!! See!! The Soviet Union cracked up! Socialism is bunk! We told you so!" Never mind those who think that socialism comes from the devil. However, laissez-faire capitalism isn't very cool, either. If you dispute this, go work in a maquiladora in Mexico. One of the fundamental aspects of capitalism is that someone has to be exploited. If there wasn't someone (the government) out there to watch over these things, we'd all be in a bad way.- ---------
-----------------------------------------------
Surface dwellers can be so stupid.
Yeah, that's where he got his name ( said so in the NYM article)- -----------------
---------------------------------------
Surface dwellers can be so stupid.
That's treason.- -----------------
---------------------------------------
Surface dwellers can be so stupid.
However, I will be truckin' my cookies down to the polls because I want to make sure that my state assembly rep wins. I know her and think she's been doing a great job, and she's not even affiliated with ANY political party. I want to vote against school vouchers, which are on the ballot here in California. Remember folks, there's more than just the president on that ballot. There really is stuff on there that matters, that will affect you. Think what would happen if you didn't vote, and the next thing you know, the school board, which got filled with religious nuts because you couldn't be bothered to vote, takes the theory of evolution out of the curriculum. You'd be kicking yourself! Think of your town, your state, stuff that really does affect you.
So the point is, you don't even HAVE to vote for the prez. If you don't like any of them, then just don't make any selections in that portion of the ballot. But not voting is in a very real way giving up your say in local matters as well as federal matters. So vote, or don't vote, but realize that voting *does* affect your life.- --------------
------------------------------------------
Surface dwellers can be so stupid.
Your statement only reflects the notion that you have NO IDEA WHAT YOU'RE TALKING about...- -----------------
---------------------------------------
Surface dwellers can be so stupid.
So, yes, libertarians, I guess you must really be enamored of the idea of using a totally proprietary closed-sourced netowrk system developed by Microsoft or whoever, (AOL?). I agree with the lib's point of view of personal freedom, but their black-and-white view of all government is bad is freaky to me.
The thought of private police forces send chills up my spine, and it should yours as well. The 'invisible hand' is not something to rely on.
I will vote this year, I always do. I am conflicted, however. I am very liberal in general, but I am also an exception. I am a gun owner, and the democrats seem to have been taken over by hysterical cultural types who think gun owners are all potential mass murderers. Unfortunately, the only party that seems to have a handle on the 2nd amendment seem to be the repubs, but I'll be damned if I vote for them, because they want to outlaw abortions and teach my kids bogus "creation science". So what's a guy to do? Vote for a third party candidate that's a little more together? I dunno. Luckily I live on the west coast, so if I wait to vote until later that day, I can safely vote for the candidate that most appeals to me. Otherwise, I'll go for Gore, because I believe that at the end of the day, he'll do less damage. Privatization is not a silver bullet. Talk to the British about privatization, and all the wonderful 'benefits' it has bestowed on them.
-----------------------------------------------
Surface dwellers can be so stupid.
Ummmm. No. Reagan gave us the crash of '89 though.- ---------
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Surface dwellers can be so stupid.
All the statistics about gun ownership indicate that the majority of gun owners in this country are white, educated, and middle class to upper middle class. So I guess that shoots your theory about rednecks and thugs.- ---------------
-----------------------------------------
Surface dwellers can be so stupid.