might appear "altruistic" if I risked my life to save someone else's life. Sure this appears to be "free will"...but it is only "free will" in the sense that I have been socialized and reprogrammed
Well, it isn't better for yourself, but its better for the human race in general assuming you have a good chance of saving the other people. A human race with members who are 'Altruistic' is more likely to survive then one where the members are not. (I'd question if it could even survive at all). Altruism is an evolved state, and inherent in humans. Not something that has been "reprogrammed"
Sony is one of the largest companies in the world, and Although it itself is a member of RIAA, Sony makes far, far, more money from video games then it does from music. Sony would spend a lot more to protect it's Video game empire then its music empire (Just look at all the equipment Sony makes to support recording of music, minidisks, etc. They even make their own mp3 player.)
The RIAA has pretty much given up anyway, SMDI looks to be a failure, and they are not going to stop MP3.
What does the RIAA have to do with DeCSS? (hint - nothing)
There is really a big difference between the two situations that most people are overlooking. Yes, there are a lot of parallels, but I think a more accurate comparison would be with Bleem, the PC playstation emulator. Remember bleem hasn't had any trouble with the law, because they did a 'clean room' implementation of the BIOS. On the other hand, Connetix did not.
Now, DeCSS wasn't even made in the US, but it was a cleanroom, perfectly legal, implementation of CSS, just like bleem was a cleanroom implementation of the Playstation. So, the people at Connetix would be on shakier ground if it weren't for one thing, the DMCA.
The DMCA gets rid of a lot of kinds of reverse engineering, specifically the kinds that let you get around anti-piracy issues. Bleem, and the VGS were created in a time where the DMCA didn't apply, whereas DeCSS did not. Both help inoperability, but both also make piracy easier.
I don't think any of this is wrong, but we'll still have to see what a court thinks
And will Sony actually encourage a 'free' version, if it were to pop out, to spite Connectix, especially as their PSX2 rapidly approaches ground zero?
I doubt it, there's been all kinds of opportunities, for all kinds of companies to do things like this, and they rarely do. They always want to maintain control over everything else. Sony would love it if the only computer that could run psx games was the ps2, and they'll try to do everything they can to keep it that way. (This my prediction.)
MPAA collectively has much more money to wave under the noses of the corrupt court officials.
Sony is probably the largest member of the MPAA, and I doubt that it has that much more money. The video game industry is larger then the movie industry now, you know.
The thing is, this case, dealing with reverse engineering, is about events that took place before the DMCA was passed (right?). So the DMCA's draconian anti-revEng measures would have no meaning.
This DeCSS stuff is a whole different issue.
Although, I would personally say that both fall under the inoperability clause. (as well as DeCSS falling under the cryptography stuff)
I'm sorry, but arguing with numbers that you pulled out of your ass proves nothing. Sony knows what the real numbers are, and I doubt they would have done something to seriously harm there business.
Anyway, this is clearly not about short term financial profits, but future control. If no one were to buy playstations anymore, because they can play the games on there computers, the PSX would becomes irrelevant. Game companies could sidestep the middleman and just make PC/Mac games. With better graphics to boot. Without the emulator, Sony controls the market absolutely. With it, they do not.
Sony doesn't make any money of systems at all. In fact, when they were first released in the US, Sony ate $50 per unit. That's right, the cost you paid for a playstation was $50 less then the cost to Sony to make it.
I'm sure the situation has changed now, and Sony might make a few bucks of consoles, but they make most of there money from playstation games that are sold (Sony gets a cut of every black Disk ever sold)
Learn somthing about the video game industry, then come back
If reverse engineering of a BIOS to allow playback of computer programs is legal, why isn't the reverse engineering of an encryption scheme to play back visual media? Hmmmmmmmmmmm.
Well, this was just one judges opinion on the subject. It would be nice if it were the same guy on the DeCSS thing, but it isn't. Remember, another judge found that it was illegal, and he was over turned by this judge.
Anyway, these to cases, technically, are very different. Other then a common theme of "Reverse engineering" there isn't much commonality.
"enough compromised clients" is the key phrase here; if a site can handle 10,000 concurrent users, then we've got a REAL problem if somebody can compromise 10,000 clients.
You forget the computing power of the clients. If each can open 100 network sockets (and I don't see why they wouldn't) you would only need 100 hacked systems. I know a guy who accidentaly left full read sharing on his mp3 directory, and ended up serving 98 users. You could probably push them even farther then that.
The real challenge would be walking from New York to London
No problem. All you have to do is start long enough ago that the continents hadn't broken apart yet.
Walk over the polar icecaps, and then through the Chunnle. Blowing up these stupid brainless arguments if fun (just don't ask me how to walk to austrailia...)
They G4's beat the Intel's because they weren't using the fastest Intel's (or AMDs). In fact they weren't even using pIIIs at all. They were using 450Mhz pIIs. This is because the wanted to use "mhz equal" testing even though you can buy 800mhz Atlons and only 450mhz PPCs right now.
Of course, they don't mention the cost/node on these things. I'd be willing to bet the PCs cost about $700 vs. about $2000+ for the Macs.
Because they don't make 450mhz pIII's as far as I know. The only way that these guys could make a valid comparison Mhz/Mhz would have been to use obsolete Intel stuff. Which they did. Obviously, they were more interested in 'hyping the Mac' then performing any meaningful measurements.
Now, if they would have gone by price(with an athlon system:) I think we would have seen something a little different...
It's a really sad statement that a website can piss you off.
Really? is it equally sad that a post on a website can piss you off?
Anyway, I never said I felt pissed of, only rejected/dejected/whatever.
. This place is run by the/. staff for the/. staff.
I don't know many companies that can survive by only selling things to themselves. I would certainly like to see slashdot survive without its readership.
This place is run by the/. staff for/. customers. If you think otherwise, you are deluded. If they piss off there customer base to much, they will die.
I don't know where you get your spoiled brat sense of entitlement but it's is not only childish it is boring.
I'll feel however I damn well please.
You're never going to get laid with that attitude.
I don't know if this is supposed to be a tagline or not, but since you are AC, I can only conclude that it isn't. Anyway, I have not trouble getting laid.
We can't see the future, who knows what it's going to be like?
Anyway, I happen to like PCs the way they are. I think it would suck if the devices we got were no longer wholly programmable. If Linus had gotten a 'closed box' instead of a 386 PC, would Linux ever have been made?
Of course, we are slashdot. We just don't get any money, or get to make any dessisions...
I think that's what's pissing people off the most here (I know its what's pissing me off). We made slashdot what it was, and then Rob goes off and sells the damn thing, without even consulting us. Many of us felt betrayed. We felt like we were part of a community, and then? Well, it was made apparent that we were just a group of people that could be bought and sold.
I mean really, all they did was buy a couple of popular Open Source sites. Can you say 'getting in late in the game'? I mean, before they bought slashdot the only thing most of us had heard of them was when that idiot columnist guy wrote a completely unrehearsed piece about Unix and open source in general, and then wrote another piece about how people at slashdot sucked (because we flamed him, etc). A couple weeks later, The bought slashdot.
Now, Andover has been bought out by VA, well great. Now the "leading opensource news site" is owned by $5 billion corporation that has a vested intrest in promoting its services above others. Fantastic.
A couple days ago CmndrTaco said that it was "funny" that Time was reporting on AOL's jacked up AOL 5.0. Will it be 'funny' now when slashdot reports on VA's screwups? Or will VA just never make screwups, is that it?
Ever hear of journalistic independence? I guess not.
I got modded down to negative 5 as well. I think it has something to do with all the image posting that was going on earlier today. The ops apparently decided that they should erase every trace of the bug's existence. Even to posts in TrollTalk.
I love the book, and I havn't heard from anyone who didn't (care to pipe up, I'd love to hear why you didn't:).
You'll apreciate it more if you read Iduro and Virtual Light as well, but I've heard people complain about Iduro (i read it several years ago), and VL kind of bored me.
Slashdot Mirror
might appear "altruistic" if I risked my life to save someone else's life. Sure this appears to be "free will"...but it is only "free will" in the sense that I have been socialized and reprogrammed
Well, it isn't better for yourself, but its better for the human race in general assuming you have a good chance of saving the other people. A human race with members who are 'Altruistic' is more likely to survive then one where the members are not. (I'd question if it could even survive at all). Altruism is an evolved state, and inherent in humans. Not something that has been "reprogrammed"
Amber Yuan (--ell7)
You think Connectix had more money then Sony?
Sony is one of the largest companies in the world, and Although it itself is a member of RIAA, Sony makes far, far, more money from video games then it does from music. Sony would spend a lot more to protect it's Video game empire then its music empire (Just look at all the equipment Sony makes to support recording of music, minidisks, etc. They even make their own mp3 player.)
The RIAA has pretty much given up anyway, SMDI looks to be a failure, and they are not going to stop MP3.
What does the RIAA have to do with DeCSS? (hint - nothing)
Amber Yuan (--ell7)
It's a control issue. Think about it, they arn't being stupid
Amber Yuan (--ell7)
There is really a big difference between the two situations that most people are overlooking. Yes, there are a lot of parallels, but I think a more accurate comparison would be with Bleem, the PC playstation emulator. Remember bleem hasn't had any trouble with the law, because they did a 'clean room' implementation of the BIOS. On the other hand, Connetix did not.
Now, DeCSS wasn't even made in the US, but it was a cleanroom, perfectly legal, implementation of CSS, just like bleem was a cleanroom implementation of the Playstation. So, the people at Connetix would be on shakier ground if it weren't for one thing, the DMCA.
The DMCA gets rid of a lot of kinds of reverse engineering, specifically the kinds that let you get around anti-piracy issues. Bleem, and the VGS were created in a time where the DMCA didn't apply, whereas DeCSS did not. Both help inoperability, but both also make piracy easier.
I don't think any of this is wrong, but we'll still have to see what a court thinks
Amber Yuan (--ell7)
And will Sony actually encourage a 'free' version, if it were to pop out, to spite Connectix, especially as their PSX2 rapidly approaches ground zero?
I doubt it, there's been all kinds of opportunities, for all kinds of companies to do things like this, and they rarely do. They always want to maintain control over everything else. Sony would love it if the only computer that could run psx games was the ps2, and they'll try to do everything they can to keep it that way. (This my prediction.)
Amber Yuan (--ell7)
MPAA collectively has much more money to wave under the noses of the corrupt court officials.
Sony is probably the largest member of the MPAA, and I doubt that it has that much more money. The video game industry is larger then the movie industry now, you know.
Amber Yuan (--ell7)
The thing is, this case, dealing with reverse engineering, is about events that took place before the DMCA was passed (right?). So the DMCA's draconian anti-revEng measures would have no meaning.
This DeCSS stuff is a whole different issue.
Although, I would personally say that both fall under the inoperability clause. (as well as DeCSS falling under the cryptography stuff)
Amber Yuan (--ell7)
I'm sorry, but arguing with numbers that you pulled out of your ass proves nothing. Sony knows what the real numbers are, and I doubt they would have done something to seriously harm there business.
Anyway, this is clearly not about short term financial profits, but future control. If no one were to buy playstations anymore, because they can play the games on there computers, the PSX would becomes irrelevant. Game companies could sidestep the middleman and just make PC/Mac games. With better graphics to boot. Without the emulator, Sony controls the market absolutely. With it, they do not.
Amber Yuan (--ell7)
Sony makes most of its money off of the systems.
Wrong, wrong, wrong.
Sony doesn't make any money of systems at all. In fact, when they were first released in the US, Sony ate $50 per unit. That's right, the cost you paid for a playstation was $50 less then the cost to Sony to make it.
I'm sure the situation has changed now, and Sony might make a few bucks of consoles, but they make most of there money from playstation games that are sold (Sony gets a cut of every black Disk ever sold)
Learn somthing about the video game industry, then come back
Amber Yuan (--ell7)
If reverse engineering of a BIOS to allow playback of computer programs is legal, why isn't the reverse engineering of an encryption scheme to play back visual media? Hmmmmmmmmmmm.
Well, this was just one judges opinion on the subject. It would be nice if it were the same guy on the DeCSS thing, but it isn't. Remember, another judge found that it was illegal, and he was over turned by this judge.
Anyway, these to cases, technically, are very different. Other then a common theme of "Reverse engineering" there isn't much commonality.
Amber Yuan (--ell7)
I can be lumped into the Bible-thumping homophobic Luddie crowd
Wow, taking parts of sentances out of context is fun.
Amber Yuan (--ell7)
"enough compromised clients" is the key phrase here; if a site can handle 10,000 concurrent users, then we've got a REAL problem if somebody can compromise 10,000 clients.
You forget the computing power of the clients. If each can open 100 network sockets (and I don't see why they wouldn't) you would only need 100 hacked systems. I know a guy who accidentaly left full read sharing on his mp3 directory, and ended up serving 98 users. You could probably push them even farther then that.
Amber Yuan (--ell7)
You really don't understand anything about evolution, do you?
Amber Yuan (--ell7)
The real challenge would be walking from New York to London
No problem. All you have to do is start long enough ago that the continents hadn't broken apart yet.
Walk over the polar icecaps, and then through the Chunnle. Blowing up these stupid brainless arguments if fun (just don't ask me how to walk to austrailia...)
Amber Yuan (--ell7)
Thats like saying you can overclock a k6 500 to 600. no one cares. an 800mhz k7 will kick the shit out of any of them
I'd like to see you try that with a G4...
Amber Yuan (--ell7)
see subject. SGI is on thin ice right now though, so we'll see...
Amber Yuan (--ell7)
They G4's beat the Intel's because they weren't using the fastest Intel's (or AMDs). In fact they weren't even using pIIIs at all. They were using 450Mhz pIIs. This is because the wanted to use "mhz equal" testing even though you can buy 800mhz Atlons and only 450mhz PPCs right now.
Of course, they don't mention the cost/node on these things. I'd be willing to bet the PCs cost about $700 vs. about $2000+ for the Macs.
Amber Yuan (--ell7)
Because they don't make 450mhz pIII's as far as I know. The only way that these guys could make a valid comparison Mhz/Mhz would have been to use obsolete Intel stuff. Which they did. Obviously, they were more interested in 'hyping the Mac' then performing any meaningful measurements.
:) I think we would have seen something a little different...
Now, if they would have gone by price(with an athlon system
Amber Yuan (--ell7)
It's a really sad statement that a website can piss you off.
/. staff for the /. staff.
/. staff for /. customers. If you think otherwise, you are deluded. If they piss off there customer base to much, they will die.
Really? is it equally sad that a post on a website can piss you off?
Anyway, I never said I felt pissed of, only rejected/dejected/whatever.
. This place is run by the
I don't know many companies that can survive by only selling things to themselves. I would certainly like to see slashdot survive without its readership.
This place is run by the
I don't know where you get your spoiled brat sense of entitlement but it's is not only childish it is boring.
I'll feel however I damn well please.
You're never going to get laid with that attitude.
I don't know if this is supposed to be a tagline or not, but since you are AC, I can only conclude that it isn't. Anyway, I have not trouble getting laid.
Amber Yuan (--ell7)
We can't see the future, who knows what it's going to be like?
Anyway, I happen to like PCs the way they are. I think it would suck if the devices we got were no longer wholly programmable. If Linus had gotten a 'closed box' instead of a 386 PC, would Linux ever have been made?
Amber Yuan (--ell7)
Of course, we are slashdot. We just don't get any money, or get to make any dessisions...
I think that's what's pissing people off the most here (I know its what's pissing me off). We made slashdot what it was, and then Rob goes off and sells the damn thing, without even consulting us. Many of us felt betrayed. We felt like we were part of a community, and then? Well, it was made apparent that we were just a group of people that could be bought and sold.
Amber Yuan (--ell7)
But who cares about Andover?
I mean really, all they did was buy a couple of popular Open Source sites. Can you say 'getting in late in the game'? I mean, before they bought slashdot the only thing most of us had heard of them was when that idiot columnist guy wrote a completely unrehearsed piece about Unix and open source in general, and then wrote another piece about how people at slashdot sucked (because we flamed him, etc). A couple weeks later, The bought slashdot.
Now, Andover has been bought out by VA, well great. Now the "leading opensource news site" is owned by $5 billion corporation that has a vested intrest in promoting its services above others. Fantastic.
A couple days ago CmndrTaco said that it was "funny" that Time was reporting on AOL's jacked up AOL 5.0. Will it be 'funny' now when slashdot reports on VA's screwups? Or will VA just never make screwups, is that it?
Ever hear of journalistic independence? I guess not.
Yeh, yeh, mark me down...
Amber Yuan (--ell7)
Think it might be possible to do a slashdot interview with WG? Slashdot's getting pretty famous now, and I think all of us would love to see it.
Amber Yuan (--ell7)
I got modded down to negative 5 as well. I think it has something to do with all the image posting that was going on earlier today. The ops apparently decided that they should erase every trace of the bug's existence. Even to posts in TrollTalk.
Amber Yuan (--ell7)
I love the book, and I havn't heard from anyone who didn't (care to pipe up, I'd love to hear why you didn't :).
You'll apreciate it more if you read Iduro and Virtual Light as well, but I've heard people complain about Iduro (i read it several years ago), and VL kind of bored me.
Amber Yuan (--ell7)