> That really sux. Please do us both a favour - mail them and tell them to at least provide a 'in english, please'-link that can be bookmarked.
They already provide a bookmarkable link that works for me. It is <http://www.google.com/intl/en>. This one is not redirected, and is in english.
But the big issue, for me, is that they may start to use different databases for various audience, in which case I may not be able to access google.com content from france, only a english version of google.fr.
Well, it even redirect me when getting the page through telnet www.google.com 80.
I checked the behavior on:
IE/ Windows
IE/ Mac (French and English versions, with various langage settings)
iCab/Mac
Mozilla/Windows
Mozilla/Mac
Mozilla/FreeBSD
OmniWeb/Mac OS X Server
OmniWeb/Mac OS X
IE5-Carbon/Mac OS X
Fizzilla/Mac OS X
Lynx
Raw Telnet
(And probably a few others)
There is only one browser that is not redirected to the french page, and it is IE5 English version on Mac OS with Language preferences set to french (!). I'll investigate further, but no 'Stop using IE' is not the good answer for me. They obviously do something with the IP.
> If I use Exploder, I will get the danish version of Google, if I use any other browser, I get the english version.
> Except, ofcourse, if I set my default language in those other browser.
You mean if you set the langage to english in those other browsers, then you are redirected to the danish version ? Weird...
> In my experience Google decides which page to give you based on your browser preferences
You experience don't map mine.
See the log below. It is just a telnet to google port 80. I only sent a 'GET / HTTP/1.0' and google redirects me to the french page. Hardly a user preferences.
This is recent behaviour, started a couple of weeks ago.
15:36:10|152 [ladybug:~] fred% telnet www.google.com 80
Trying 216.239.37.100...
Connected to google.lb.google.com.
Escape character is '^]'.
GET / HTTP/1.0
<HTML><HEAD><TITLE>302 Moved Temporarily</TITLE></HEAD>
<BODY>
<H1>302 Moved</H1>The document has moved
<A HREF="http://www.google.fr/">here</A>.
</BODY></HTML>
Connection closed by foreign host.
15:36:24|153 [ladybug:~] fred%
> Like opera, where you can select which one, "Identify as MSIE 5":) Cool
I used to play that kind of tricks (mostly by using junkbuster), than realised that I was making myself a disservice by pushing IE stats. If everybody masquerade as IE, then webmasters will be right to do IE-only pages, as this is the only thing they will see in their logs.
At this point, the User-Agent: rewrite will stop working, because the sites will really be using proprietary IE functionality that will not even exist in Opera. And you will be forced to use IE.
> They just don't want to get sued by France (as yahoo did) if you, or other users, look up sites containing Certain Illegal(in France) Information. Try doing a google search (from the redirect) on that info. Bet it won't allow it.
You lost it. A search on 'nazi volkswagen badge' from google.fr get me straight to an ebay auction for that kind of shit (but yahoo.fr don't give it).
And, thanks to your brilliant idea, I will now have my phone line taped by french secret services due to illegal activities on the net. Thanks:-)
> You can set this preference in IE in Tools -> Internet Options -> Languages.
> Hope this works.
For me, it does not. And have you may have seen from my original post, it redirects even a raw 'GET / HTTP/1.0', so it is (at least partially) based on the IP.
> As a web designer, I'd love to have this information
As a web user, I'd love to smash your head with a 21" monitor.
> Then you could do the high/low quality links for them
Please don't. If I want to download a high quality link on a 56k modem, it is my business. If I want only the lowres from my DSL line, it is my business too.
Web designer should stop trying to think for the users, like google that insist that I have the french version of the page.
Of course, you're going to tell me that you would provide a link to the other version of the site, but the truth is that you wouldn't.
Try broswing ati.com with mozilla. Isn't that nice, a 'Web Designer' that make decisions for its users ? (The site sort-of works with Mac OS X Server Omniweb, or lynx, so it is just becasue they are lazy assholes)
If such headers were commons, it'll take a couple of year until:
1/ Users will have only one link and the server will choose what content is best for him
2/ Users with browsers that don't give the info will be redirected to a please-use latest IE page.
Since a couple of weeks ago, my home page, which is www.google.com is displayed in french. More precisely, www.google.com send me a redirect to www.google.fr. My browser is set to request only english documents, so I suspected they base the redirect on thIP address.
A quick direct connection show it:
15:36:10|152 [ladybug:~] fred% telnet www.google.com 80
Trying 216.239.37.100...
Connected to google.lb.google.com.
Escape character is '^]'.
GET / HTTP/1.0
<HTML><HEAD><TITLE>302 Moved Temporarily</TITLE></HEAD>
<BODY>
<H1>302 Moved</H1>The document has moved
<A HREF="http://www.google.fr/">here</A>.
</BODY></HTML>
Connection closed by foreign host.
15:36:24|153 [ladybug:~] fred%
I beleive they crossed the line here. I really feel that the fact my ISP is in France is none of their business.
Cheers,
--fred
PS: while I am here, is there any way for me to get back www.google.com ?
Innovative products rarely take the world at a storm the few years after their creation, so it is a bit recent to see any technological breakthrought made in the last 10 years (but, if I had to name one, cell phones is probably the biggest one since civil airplane)
> But think carefully, can you really name something developed in the last nine years that came out of left field, shook the world by its roots, gained acceptance and you can't live without it
> Almost no mail gets read by your congress person; a staffer reads the mail before it will ever meet a congress person's eyes
Of course. The congressman is way to busy counting green papernotes. Btw, this is a way to be read by him. Write on 100 bucks banknotes. You have to use big letters, cause they often have weak eyes, so you'll probably want to keep it short (this is one of the reason why buying laws is so expensive in the uS)
> Right, then they lose much of the user base thats using RH, as they try out Mandrake or Debian or ___.
Like when you boil a frog. They have to make it slowly more and more difficult to upgrade.
> Doesnt sound like a good business move.
Well, they _have_ to make money one way or another.
They are market leaders, the have a slightly incompatible product (as everyone else), and they represent the _real_ "linux" in the eyes of US corporates. All commercial software that runs on "linux" runs mostly on redhat GNU/Linux. They are taking advantage of this, but will try to keep they barrier of entry as low as possible (like microsoft does by encouraging so-called 'piracy') by chargin only automagic updates. They will probably have a scheme so non-commercial users can still update.
> This one is interesting in that the number happens to be prime.
It isn't even remotely interesting. There are a *lot* of prime numbers. About one on 3000, for a 1400 digits number.
Considering how easy it is to build valid variation of a gzippped file, it is a one banana thing.
Even if gzip would not accept any variation (ie: if a source file could give only one gzip file, and if any alteration would produce an error at output), then modify the C source file would be just too easy (put a '/*n*/' at the begining, and compress for n incrementing from zero. Would take about 1500 try), unless gzi pformat could never give you a prime number (ie: always finished with a binary '0')
Now, what is the size of w2k source code ? 1 Gygabyte ? There are prime numbers about every few billions in that range. By messing with 4 bytes (!) of the source, you can have resonable expectation that you can make the result a prime number (if windows source code ends with a binary '1', of course).
A little less than 10 times the amount of less than 1400 digits ones.
Looks like geeks have troubles understanding what entropy is. Face it, you'll not going to get this number much smaller than 1400 digits, no matter how hard you try it.
[snipped explanation about why java and OO is best solution there, and why it can't work on bsd due to kernel limitations]
You are clueless. OO is not a silver bullet for development. What fits you well may not be good for this guy. Hell, we don't even know what its problems are !
Anyway, stop this insanity about non-preemtiveness FreeBSD scheduler that lack the spinlock reference counting in its module destructor, as it have been solved months ago !
(And no, the myth that unix commands name have been choosed based on intestinal noises have already been debunked elsewhere. For instance, fsck was choosed for a different reason)
Maybe I just bited an ignorant troll, but I can't let you spread your bullshit all over slashdot.
You're spoiling the fun. It was the most trollesque askslashdot ever.
They *asked* for a langage war.
Next ones should be something along the line.
* We're a big company porting its stuff to linux. What is the best desktop environment to use ?
* When redoing out corporate backend, we decided to go to unix. But which unix should we choose ?
* Is there any kind of text-mode visual editor on unix ?
Put it in the kernel. Writing it in assembly would be a plus too.
Okay, this is a stupid answer, but the question was stupid already:
> we feel it is time for a recode
The pool:
"Everything is running like crap. You've got a cold feeling". What is it?
* time for a recode ?
* time for an ask slashdot ?
* time for an upgrade ?
* time to check that the 'turbo' button is pressed ?
* time for hiring good engineers ?
* time for a profiling session [<- hint] ?
* CowboyNeal ?
> In the old days, the word "crime" was reserved for actions such as murder, armed robbery, high treason, etc.
> Nowadays, putting an extra pair of parenthesis around a variable apparently qualifies too...
Don't tell me you didn't saw it coming ?
% make foo
cc foo.c -o foo
foo.c:9: illegal declaration, missing `;' after `a'
*** Exit 1
Stop.
%
*Illegal* declaration.
Who do you think you are ? You can't do illegal declarations at job all the day long, and then just walk away.
Slashdot Mirror
> That really sux. Please do us both a favour - mail them and tell them to at least provide a 'in english, please'-link that can be bookmarked.
They already provide a bookmarkable link that works for me. It is <http://www.google.com/intl/en>. This one is not redirected, and is in english.
But the big issue, for me, is that they may start to use different databases for various audience, in which case I may not be able to access google.com content from france, only a english version of google.fr.
So I mailed them anyway.
Cheers,
--fred
> No, they don't. Just stop using Exploder.
Well, it even redirect me when getting the page through telnet www.google.com 80.
I checked the behavior on:
IE/ Windows
IE/ Mac (French and English versions, with various langage settings)
iCab/Mac
Mozilla/Windows
Mozilla/Mac
Mozilla/FreeBSD
OmniWeb/Mac OS X Server
OmniWeb/Mac OS X
IE5-Carbon/Mac OS X
Fizzilla/Mac OS X
Lynx
Raw Telnet
(And probably a few others)
There is only one browser that is not redirected to the french page, and it is IE5 English version on Mac OS with Language preferences set to french (!). I'll investigate further, but no 'Stop using IE' is not the good answer for me. They obviously do something with the IP.
> If I use Exploder, I will get the danish version of Google, if I use any other browser, I get the english version.
> Except, ofcourse, if I set my default language in those other browser.
You mean if you set the langage to english in those other browsers, then you are redirected to the danish version ? Weird...
Cheers,
--fred
> In my experience Google decides which page to give you based on your browser preferences
4 ; domain=.google.com; path=/; expires=Sun, 17-Jan-2038 19:14:07 GMT
You experience don't map mine.
See the log below. It is just a telnet to google port 80. I only sent a 'GET / HTTP/1.0' and google redirects me to the french page. Hardly a user preferences.
This is recent behaviour, started a couple of weeks ago.
15:36:10|152 [ladybug:~] fred% telnet www.google.com 80
Trying 216.239.37.100...
Connected to google.lb.google.com.
Escape character is '^]'.
GET / HTTP/1.0
HTTP/1.0 302 Moved Temporarily
Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 14:59:24 GMT
Server: GWS/1.10
Connection: close
Set-Cookie: PREF=ID=19fe6a8304c33946:TM=985100364:LM=98510036
Location: http://www.google.fr/
Cache-Control: No-Cache
Content-Length: 161
Content-Type: text/html
<HTML><HEAD><TITLE>302 Moved Temporarily</TITLE></HEAD>
<BODY>
<H1>302 Moved</H1>The document has moved
<A HREF="http://www.google.fr/">here</A>.
</BODY></HTML>
Connection closed by foreign host.
15:36:24|153 [ladybug:~] fred%
Cheers,
--fred
> Like opera, where you can select which one, "Identify as MSIE 5" :) Cool
I used to play that kind of tricks (mostly by using junkbuster), than realised that I was making myself a disservice by pushing IE stats. If everybody masquerade as IE, then webmasters will be right to do IE-only pages, as this is the only thing they will see in their logs.
At this point, the User-Agent: rewrite will stop working, because the sites will really be using proprietary IE functionality that will not even exist in Opera. And you will be forced to use IE.
Cheers,
--fred
> They just don't want to get sued by France (as yahoo did) if you, or other users, look up sites containing Certain Illegal(in France) Information. Try doing a google search (from the redirect) on that info. Bet it won't allow it.
:-)
You lost it. A search on 'nazi volkswagen badge' from google.fr get me straight to an ebay auction for that kind of shit (but yahoo.fr don't give it).
And, thanks to your brilliant idea, I will now have my phone line taped by french secret services due to illegal activities on the net. Thanks
Cheers,
--fred
You mean, like in my (not-so offtopic) post ? (http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=01/03/20/1423 223&cid=87)
In a nutshell, in my case, google.com redirects me to the .fr version based on my IP, regardless of my langage settings.
Cheers,
--fred
> You can set this preference in IE in Tools -> Internet Options -> Languages.
> Hope this works.
For me, it does not. And have you may have seen from my original post, it redirects even a raw 'GET / HTTP/1.0', so it is (at least partially) based on the IP.
Cheers,
--fred
> A soon as I changed my location settings
Didn't work for me. I have all my regional settings to 'English/us' (and even my keyboards are english ones). Maybe I should try harder.
Cheers,
--fred
> As a web designer, I'd love to have this information
As a web user, I'd love to smash your head with a 21" monitor.
> Then you could do the high/low quality links for them
Please don't. If I want to download a high quality link on a 56k modem, it is my business. If I want only the lowres from my DSL line, it is my business too.
Web designer should stop trying to think for the users, like google that insist that I have the french version of the page.
Of course, you're going to tell me that you would provide a link to the other version of the site, but the truth is that you wouldn't.
Try broswing ati.com with mozilla. Isn't that nice, a 'Web Designer' that make decisions for its users ? (The site sort-of works with Mac OS X Server Omniweb, or lynx, so it is just becasue they are lazy assholes)
If such headers were commons, it'll take a couple of year until:
1/ Users will have only one link and the server will choose what content is best for him
2/ Users with browsers that don't give the info will be redirected to a please-use latest IE page.
It have been that way for most web [mis]features.
Cheers,
--fred
[This is partly-offtopic]
4 ; domain=.google.com; path=/; expires=Sun, 17-Jan-2038 19:14:07 GMT
Since a couple of weeks ago, my home page, which is www.google.com is displayed in french. More precisely, www.google.com send me a redirect to www.google.fr. My browser is set to request only english documents, so I suspected they base the redirect on thIP address.
A quick direct connection show it:
15:36:10|152 [ladybug:~] fred% telnet www.google.com 80
Trying 216.239.37.100...
Connected to google.lb.google.com.
Escape character is '^]'.
GET / HTTP/1.0
HTTP/1.0 302 Moved Temporarily
Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 14:59:24 GMT
Server: GWS/1.10
Connection: close
Set-Cookie: PREF=ID=19fe6a8304c33946:TM=985100364:LM=98510036
Location: http://www.google.fr/
Cache-Control: No-Cache
Content-Length: 161
Content-Type: text/html
<HTML><HEAD><TITLE>302 Moved Temporarily</TITLE></HEAD>
<BODY>
<H1>302 Moved</H1>The document has moved
<A HREF="http://www.google.fr/">here</A>.
</BODY></HTML>
Connection closed by foreign host.
15:36:24|153 [ladybug:~] fred%
I beleive they crossed the line here. I really feel that the fact my ISP is in France is none of their business.
Cheers,
--fred
PS: while I am here, is there any way for me to get back www.google.com ?
Innovative products rarely take the world at a storm the few years after their creation, so it is a bit recent to see any technological breakthrought made in the last 10 years (but, if I had to name one, cell phones is probably the biggest one since civil airplane)
> But think carefully, can you really name something developed in the last nine years that came out of left field, shook the world by its roots, gained acceptance and you can't live without it
Fermat theorem proof, of course.
Cheers,
--fred
> Almost no mail gets read by your congress person; a staffer reads the mail before it will ever meet a congress person's eyes
Of course. The congressman is way to busy counting green papernotes. Btw, this is a way to be read by him. Write on 100 bucks banknotes. You have to use big letters, cause they often have weak eyes, so you'll probably want to keep it short (this is one of the reason why buying laws is so expensive in the uS)
> quick point. boiling frog urban legend
:-)
Or maybe makes the point of the original poster. RH want to boil frog its supporters, but it won't works
Cheers,
--fred
> Right, then they lose much of the user base thats using RH, as they try out Mandrake or Debian or ___.
Like when you boil a frog. They have to make it slowly more and more difficult to upgrade.
> Doesnt sound like a good business move.
Well, they _have_ to make money one way or another.
They are market leaders, the have a slightly incompatible product (as everyone else), and they represent the _real_ "linux" in the eyes of US corporates. All commercial software that runs on "linux" runs mostly on redhat GNU/Linux. They are taking advantage of this, but will try to keep they barrier of entry as low as possible (like microsoft does by encouraging so-called 'piracy') by chargin only automagic updates. They will probably have a scheme so non-commercial users can still update.
So maybe it is a good business move...
Cheers,
--fred
> You can still get the updates for free
Sure, but they can, (and probably will) make this arbitrary difficult.
Cheers,
--fred
> This one is interesting in that the number happens to be prime.
It isn't even remotely interesting. There are a *lot* of prime numbers. About one on 3000, for a 1400 digits number.
Considering how easy it is to build valid variation of a gzippped file, it is a one banana thing.
Even if gzip would not accept any variation (ie: if a source file could give only one gzip file, and if any alteration would produce an error at output), then modify the C source file would be just too easy (put a '/*n*/' at the begining, and compress for n incrementing from zero. Would take about 1500 try), unless gzi pformat could never give you a prime number (ie: always finished with a binary '0')
Now, what is the size of w2k source code ? 1 Gygabyte ? There are prime numbers about every few billions in that range. By messing with 4 bytes (!) of the source, you can have resonable expectation that you can make the result a prime number (if windows source code ends with a binary '1', of course).
Cheers,
--fred
> How many 1400 digit primes exist?
A little less than 10 times the amount of less than 1400 digits ones.
Looks like geeks have troubles understanding what entropy is. Face it, you'll not going to get this number much smaller than 1400 digits, no matter how hard you try it.
Cheers,
--fred
Bob wrote:
[snipped explanation about why java and OO is best solution there, and why it can't work on bsd due to kernel limitations]
You are clueless. OO is not a silver bullet for development. What fits you well may not be good for this guy. Hell, we don't even know what its problems are !
Anyway, stop this insanity about non-preemtiveness FreeBSD scheduler that lack the spinlock reference counting in its module destructor, as it have been solved months ago !
(And no, the myth that unix commands name have been choosed based on intestinal noises have already been debunked elsewhere. For instance, fsck was choosed for a different reason)
Maybe I just bited an ignorant troll, but I can't let you spread your bullshit all over slashdot.
Cheers,
--fred
Rotfl. Best one so far. Not sure he'll get the perf he needs, but there is no silver bullet.
You're spoiling the fun. It was the most trollesque askslashdot ever.
They *asked* for a langage war.
Next ones should be something along the line.
* We're a big company porting its stuff to linux. What is the best desktop environment to use ?
* When redoing out corporate backend, we decided to go to unix. But which unix should we choose ?
* Is there any kind of text-mode visual editor on unix ?
Cheers,
--fred
Put it in the kernel. Writing it in assembly would be a plus too.
Okay, this is a stupid answer, but the question was stupid already:
> we feel it is time for a recode
The pool:
"Everything is running like crap. You've got a cold feeling". What is it?
* time for a recode ?
* time for an ask slashdot ?
* time for an upgrade ?
* time to check that the 'turbo' button is pressed ?
* time for hiring good engineers ?
* time for a profiling session [<- hint] ?
* CowboyNeal ?
Cheers,
--fred
> In the old days, the word "crime" was reserved for actions such as murder, armed robbery, high treason, etc.
> Nowadays, putting an extra pair of parenthesis around a variable apparently qualifies too...
Don't tell me you didn't saw it coming ?
% make foo
cc foo.c -o foo
foo.c:9: illegal declaration, missing `;' after `a'
*** Exit 1
Stop.
%
*Illegal* declaration.
Who do you think you are ? You can't do illegal declarations at job all the day long, and then just walk away.
Cheers,
--fred
I beleive it should make about 6 manyillions Quatloos, at yesterday change
Cheers
--fred
> Unfortunately (!) we had 1.6 billion visitors
Hey, sam we recognized you. You are talking about efront, and you are making numbers.
> So we have to try to find a way to keep people away from the site, but not drive everyone away
And you released those IRC logs ? Smart move...
Cheers,
--fred
> I'm pretty sure that 1.6B page views / year would make that the biggest site on the net.
He said "several large websites".
Cheers,
--fred