Slashdot Mirror
Where Is The Innovation?
"In posing this question to the slashdot community I'm sure to receive some blistering flames claiming that I'm too narrow minded in my view of what innovation is. But think carefully, can you really name something developed in the last nine years that came out of left field, shook the world by its roots, gained acceptance and you can't live without it? I consider innovations to be things such as the wheel, fire, airplanes, mechanized warfare, the radio, television, PC, and the Internet.
In looking at research being done now, I again see only a path of incremental improvement. People simply take the next step, no one jumps. Quantum computing might have a chance, but it looks like it will fall the way of hot fusion, physically possible, but not commercial viable.
If the Internet is supposed to facilitate the exchange of information, why don't we see more innovation? Is it just that the innovation has become so complex and abstract that a simple-minded person like myself is blind to it? Or for the past nine years have we just been walking along thrilled at the way things were going? (If the latter is the case, a recession might be good to stoke the fires of original thinking)
Has there been innovation (not the Microsoft defintion, but real innovation) in the past nine years? Is it too much to ask for a ground breaking idea in nine short years? Why hasn't there been more inovation with the advent of the internet?"
Phrases like "The end result of our conversation was that, since the release of the web browser, there has been no innovation in any field of science or technology." are so generalizing and simplistic that they reek of either trolling or unhealthy ignorance. And since, as programmers, we slashdot folk are all so very smart, I'm leaning towards the troll end of the spectrum...
Oy vey! Ok how about AFU then? The fortune file needs updating... From: bjacobs@painful.sdsu.edu (William Jacobs) Subject: Patent office UL Date: 25 Jun 1993 00:05:48 GMT At AFU West VI Bob O'Bob asked about the legend that an official of the U.S. Patent Office had resigned believing that everything had been invented. Another AFU'er (whom I don't recall) and I got into a match of dueling references. Here's mine: Skeptical Inquirer Vol. 13 Spring 1989. A Patently False Patent Myth by Samuel Sass "For more than a century there has periodically appeared in print the story about an official of the U.S. Patent Office who resigned his post because he believed that all possible inventions had already been invented. Some years ago, before I retired as librarian of a General Electric Company division, I was asked by a skeptical scientist to find out what there was to this recurring tale. My research proved to be easier than I had expected. I found that this matter had been investigated as a project of the D.C. Historical Records Survey under the Works Projects Administration. The investigator, Dr. Eber Jeffery, published his findings in the July 1940 Journal of the Patent Office Society. Jeffery found no evidence that any official or employee of the U.S. Patent Office had ever resigned because he thought there was nothing left to invent. However, Jeffery may have found a clue to the origin of the myth. In his 1843 report to Congress, the then commissioner of the Patent Office, Henry L. Ellsworth, included the following comment: "The advancement of the arts, from year to year, taxes our credulity and seems to presage the arrival of that period when human improvement must end." As Jeffery shows, it's evident from the rest of that report that Commissioner Ellsworth was simply using a bit of rhetorical flourish to emphasize that the number of patents was growing at a great rate. Far from considering inventions at an end, he outlined areas in which he expected patent activity to increase, and it is clear that he was making plans for the future." Sass mentions another atribution of the quote to Commissioner of the U.S. Patent Office Charles H. Duell, who didn't say it either. Bill "All threads have already been created. There is nothing new to post" jacobs http://www.urbanlegends.com/misc/patent_office_ul. html
Posted by isopiagroove:
In the past, inventions were always by a very few people with a huge market. One company could dominate an 'industry' until another huge company came along and decided to manufacture something similar. Today, if we take a look at the handheld manufacturing, there are so many more companies, producing very similar things, so it seems as though there is no innovation when you look at it overall. With everyone cooperating AND competing at the same time (alliance between IBM, Intel, Nortel etc to make various products and user intreface services) it's hard to make something "revolutionary". But, I believe there IS less innovation if you consider the technology available to us, compared to just 10 years ago. Mathematica lets you execute calculations faster than several human lifetimes needed if you were to do it by hand. So shouldn't there be a ton more and better inventions by now? Why is TB still around? And hand-footand mouth disease? But such tools aren't being used to create revolutionary things...they are used to optimize and improve by increments. All the tools we have now, the genome dissecting, deep-space telescopes, biomedical engineering, are not intended for revolutionary tools, but fact-gathering and confirming what we know so far is right. Lastly, there is also a trend in academic journals like Nature and Science that were previously mentioned for fact-gathering and focusing on a very small aspect of a system; one fold of a single protein for example. The results published today are considered science, whereas fifty years ago, they would be considered preliminary results upon which one could begin to do science. But that's just my opinion.
I think part of the problem is that people don't like to think that innovation takes time.
You talk about UNIX evolving slowly, but look at the Auto and the Airplane. All three are from the 20th Century...yes there were some earlier auto examples, but for the most part nothing really happened until 1898 on...so I'll say the 20th Century.
The Auto - Very slow development until Ford, revolutionized the entire industral system. So a good 20 years with slow evolution.
The Airplane - From 1903 until 1915 really very little was done with the airplane. Sure it could fly up to 150 miles per hour and cross the English Channel or the Alps, but it was still *very* dangerous and impractical. But between the wars airplanes started to evolve, by 1940 most of the world's airforces had mono-planes, although most still used biplanes till the end of the war (Germany, UK, USSR, Japan, US). But that's a full 37 years after the first flight. 37 years to go from Kitty Hawk to 400 miles an hour. Even during the war, US and British crews had to stop for fuel during Atlantic crossings, nearly 20 years after Lindberg flew non-stop.
Technology has always evolved slowly, look at handguns, the best designed handgun in the history of firearms was designed before the first world war and "prefected" in 1911. Not much has happened with that in 90 years.
The capitalization of Technology hasn't slown it down, it's always been slow.
The truly bizzarre thing is, I keep meeting people who are complaining about ulcers, and downing tons of antacid, at their doctor's recommendation, and facing surgery, and I'm like; "Dude! get a different fucking doctor! Ulcer's are curable, you just need a good strong course of antibiotics and you're done."
"oh no, my doctor says that research is iffy."
These are my friends, See how they glisten. See this one shine, how he smiles in the light.
Yes, and I was VERY disappointed to see his column disappear from the back of Scientific American (now SA).
I've subscribed to that magazine for 10 years, and now they've turned "SA" over to a bunch of slick marketroids. What, do I go back to the Popular Science I read when I was 8?
These are my friends, See how they glisten. See this one shine, how he smiles in the light.
I remember when I was young, and wanted to be an astronaut, and I studied space exploration. Alan Shepard was the man. The book said that the USSR also sent a man into space (unnamed), before that.
I got books out of the library, and found out that Alan Shepard was not the first man in space, and didn't even really go into space - a suborbital flight. Now, I had been told that the USSR was evil, and that the commies wanted to nuke us all, but I made it a point to memorize that strange name, Yuri Gagarin, because HE was the first man in space. I don't think I trusted anything I was taught in school after that point in time.
- - -
what would the world be like today if the Russians hadn't stopped, and had the cash and the will to go to Mars (to REALLY make it the red planet)?
The US Govt would have decided it would have been cheaper to nuke them rather than to beat them to Mars.
- - -
As a former member of the L5 society, beaming power back to Earth via microwaves has it's own rather nasty environmental problems. It may be the only sustainable industrial power source long-term if a fusion solution isn't found, though.
These are my friends, See how they glisten. See this one shine, how he smiles in the light.
This is data from slide shows at meetings at the Chicago Adler Planetarium, like 20 years ago. (we were the Chicago Society for Space Settlement, then we kind of merged with L5) Haven't seen much on the technology since then.
The plan was to establish a permanent moon base, mine silicon dioxide from the surface, use solar furnaces on the moon to forge photovoltaics, use a mass driver to launch the stuff back towards earth. Assemble huge arrays of solar panels in earth orbit (I think, geosynchronous). Beam energy back to earth using microwaves to huge areas of land purposed to home gigantic (multi square) mile receivers.
They suggested the receivers could even be mounted on a mesh suspended above the ground on telephone poles, and that farming could take place underneath the receivers.
Birds or aircraft flying through the beam would be "adversely affected". Bad weather would interfere with the beam, reducing efficiency of transmission, but not eliminating it altogether.
Spread of the beam would mean surrounding countryside would be subject to lower amounts of microwave radiation, and it was unknown whether the microwaves would do anything to the atmosphere. (like HAARP).
These are my friends, See how they glisten. See this one shine, how he smiles in the light.
I think the problem here, is the asker of the question is looking for something that, at the instance of conception, jumps out and totally changes society.
Unfortunately, that generally doesn't happen.
You see, there are thousands of innovative things that are conceived yearly. However, there's more to revolutionizing society than simply having a good idea. There are dozens of factors such as time, need, viability, cost, etc, that come into play to determine what kind of an impact this innovation will have.
Additionally, it's almost impossible to look at something and say, "This here idea will change the face of the world." When you do that, you are almost always going to be wrong.
Innovation is something that is recognized *after* it impacts society. For example, when the web browser was first released, do you think everyone and their mother jumped on board and said, "This will change the the world, the economy, our society, and more!"? No, they didn't. It was originally conceived as an academic tool for easier sharing of (mostly) textual information.
It was only later, with the introduction of Mosaic and GUI web browsers that it showed it's true potential.
Ask this question again in 5, or even 10 years, and *then* you'll be able to see what innovations appeared in the late 90's.
As a last note, nearly every innovation is an evolutionary change. Sometimes, however, that incremental bit becomes enough to have repercussions to society. For example, the web browser is just an incremental improvement to gopher, but it was at that point that it had a truly major impact. Additionally, if you were to take a closer look at the sociences, I think you'd be pretty impressed with the creativity and innovation that is occuring there.
Topher
But there was an incremental development from finding naturally occurring fire, to finding it and keeping it in constantly tended firepots that needed another naturally occurring source to restart if they ever went out, to being able to start a fire with a lot of work and a bit of luck in good conditions by friction, to the firebow making that easier, to the flint and tinderbox, to the flint small enough and reliable enough for a flintlock gun, to the Zippo lighter.
--
rant
Odd. I see comments like that from ppl (probably from the USA) where cellphone service appears to be appalingly bad and I really find it strange.
I've had a GSM cellphone here in the UK for several years and (with the exception of a prefix change) my telephone number is still the same as it was when I got it (although I've had many many handsets). Having a GSM phone in a good cellphone service environment like Europe has had a profound effect on society and me personally. I no longer need to arrange to meet people at place X at time Y, we simply call as the time approaches and meet wherever the rest of the ppl are.
I've got a freind who is a bodyguard who by the nature of her job is out the country for months at a time, and yet even though we've both moved houses and jobs several times, we can stay in touch effortlessly simply becase I have her GSM phone number.
My sister is in New Zeland yet I can send SMS messages without thinking about it. I'm standing in an airport in France with a UK handset speaking to a German who is in Italy with an Australian handset, and it all "just works".
Perhaps, as other posters have suggested, the low quality of service of 'traditional' landline telephony avalable in the 80's (it really was bad) made it easier for GSM to penetrate the market here in the UK. Fair enough.
One day, perhaps the USA will have a good cellphone service (You're screwed on 3G BTW, perhaps 4G, assuming you can get motorola + qualcomm to domainate it
Some say GSM phone are bad, dangerous, annoying, harmful to health etc. and they're probably right, but so are cars, PCs, aircraft etc. Acceptable levels of risk IMO.
I think the main problem with the whole "push technology" idea is that it really ended up being pull-on-a-timer rather than push. I use push technology every day (email). It's nice that someone can just push a message out to me and be done with it. (Granted, I "timed pull" them down from my mailserver).
If UPS could "push" a message out to me when my package is delivered, it'd be sweet. (a la instant messaging, rather than email).
Innovations do not need to be earth shattering and the little neat things is probably what makes technology pleasant and interesting. Look at the list over at Sv.com. This is what Eazel have done in a year that neither Mac nor Windows has. This was problably put together as arguments against MicroSoft latest OpenSource hinders innovation but quite interesting in its own right.
Help fight continental drift.
Penicillin. The Pill.
Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from a rigged demo
--Andy Finkel (J. Klass?)
Everything that can be invented has been invented.
-- Charles Duell, Director of U.S. Patent Office, 1899
God I wish they'd taken him seriously. They might have closed the damn place down then.
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I've finally had it: until slashdot gets article moderation, I am not coming back.
If you're looking for new things in the last 30 years in the field of computer science (other then easier GUIs) you're going to have a hard time, becasue there just arent any, it's all incremental change. The web is only a GUI on top of FTP and RPC if you think about it, not a breaktrough in tech but in a social use of tech.
All the innovation and revolution has been in other fields for quite a while. If you want new go into biotech or nanotech, those are the frontiers.
- Adam L. Beberg - The Cosm Project - http://www.mithral.com/
Not to mention the fact that ALL of those inventions, including the wheel and fire, started as "incremental improvement".
So is radio, television, PC, and the Internet. If you follow it all back into history, you'll see all of this stuff is a combination of already existing stuff.
Anybody who reads /. on a regular basis?
;-)
But thats just a guess
You say you want a revolution....
...One-Click shopping!
bp
"But" != "and".
? He was following Kepler (and others). And he was innovative. Some increments are innovative. Some innovations are incremental.
"Innovative" is only an opposite of "incremental" if one looks at advances with a pop science frame of mind. Most -- all? -- increments involve innovation.
(And implying that anything without a currently existing application is by definition not innovative seems kinda short-sighted to me.)
Who is the umaine.edu to argue with the unix fortune file? Hmm?
The only way I will believe you is if your grandpa told you in a bar, thats the only valid reference for anything, really... ;)
Everything that can be invented has been invented.
-- Charles Duell, Director of U.S. Patent Office, 1899
I'd disagree - the "cellular" idea - that many small transmitters could handle one call, and that a call could be handed from one transmitter to another without interrupting the call was a pretty innovative idea, and implementing it took some pretty innovative engineering.
The way the original question is worded, I think the batteries would come under the heading "incremental improvements", though I don't know how big of a leap they made in terms of battery materials, etc., so maybe those are innovative. Even so, they're not nearly so big as the cell-phone idea.
The Americans knowingly voted in an idiot, so now they get the idiot decisions they asked for. I can't remember who said it, but there is a nice quote "Democracy is the process of making sure the people get what they want, and get it good and hard".
I don't care if it's 90,000 hectares. That lake was not my doing.
That sounds like a rather web-developer centric world view. As I use the web for little more than a reference tool and communications tool, let me assure you that the rest of the scientific and technical world is making leaps and bounds. Partly helped by the increase effeciency of tools like the web, partly by other advances (although I would find a web browser hard to term an advance as it is just a tool to standardize interfaces into one user "experience" :-)).
The new technology in the semiconductor field alone has made the browser a usable tool. Do you remember using Mosaic in the early 90's? It was stripped down and still slow on anything short of a high end workstation.
What you are seeing is that those improvments that require you to make a paradigm shift for greater effeciency are "breakthroughs" (the web, a car 100 years ago, etc). Really all technology is just improvments on other technology. Some require change onthe users part, others are hidden from them to make their life better. All in all, the web browser is not the biggest breakthrough in the last 9 years, it just has the biggest social footprint.
We all had visions that by the year 2000, HAL-9000 would be talking us through even the most complex computing tasks.. but here in 2001, if you want your text to wrap around a picture in Microsoft Word, you need a freakin' PAPER CLIP to talk you through the grueling ordeal.
If that isn't true innovation, well, I'm dumbfounded. It sure came out of left field, at least.
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After all, think about the invention of calculus. This has made physics possible, thus making many things that we take for granted possible (computers, etc.). Now, one could say that calculus is just a logical progression from algebra. However, think about the thought processes and the jumps that had to be made just to make that logical progression possible.
Get thee to at text on the history of mathematics. There was no singular point that was "the invention of calculus." Newton did not 'invent' calculus. Many of the important theorems of calculus were already in place, 'proved' by the standards of the day. What Newton did was an incremental step forward from previous work. Granted, in his lifetime, he was able to provide LOTS of incremental steps, and analysis (the branch of mathematics which includes calculus) was much improved by his work.
Keep in mind, though, that there was for decades (centuries?) dispute over Newton's contributions vs. Leibniz's contributions. Both 'invented'/'discovered' calculus simultaneously. Furthermore, nearly everything that Newton accomplished, Archimedes already had. 2000 years earlier. Without centuries of analysis to build on. Without decent notation (don't underestimate its value - Einstein couldn't have done his work without the tensor calculus - in essence, a way to represent MANY equations with a single variable).
Newton's brilliance was in pulling everything together, improving on it, developing better notation, and applying it to widely disparate fields of inquiry. In a single lifetime.
There is no such thing as "an increment that changes everything." Each such increment is built on thousands of others, and provides a foundation for thousands more.
No innovation in any field of science or technology?!? Are you crazy? Maybe you meant to say there has been no significant innovation in the commercial world. Look at any of the thousands of journals on topics in science and technology and you will see innovation on almost every page.
If your definition of innovation is a radical change that is immediately and obviously apparent to every individual affected by it, then yeah it's all incremental.
Some things that are pretty radical but aren't end-user-visible are:
-XML: Changing how software communicates. Everything from simple publishing of headlines from one site to another -- RSS to distributed computing -- SOAP. Even HTML is being updated to fall in line with XML -- XHTML. As the percentage of data in XML increases, this will revolutionize how information is processed.)
-PDAs: Ok, this is more user-visible. I can't live without my Palm V. It's just that useful. The same sentiment is held by a great many users of such devices. Add wireless Internet to the mix and you'll change how people communicate.
-ASPs: The idea of outsourcing lesser components of your business isn't new. But when your business is a web site, being able to plug in components from other systems is pretty handy. My bank integrates with Quicken to download transaction data. Some web sites (Aint-it-cool-news.com for example) outsource things like their message boards or their web based e-mail to other companies who co-brand their own products and integrate them with the web site. AICN (for example) doesn't have to install updates, maintain server(s) for the message boards, or take care of any of those hassles. This lets them make a more useful, rich experience for their users while keeping costs low.
I'm sure there are others. The biggest changes are the ones you don't notice until long after the fact. Changes that are immediately apparent as "radical" rarely take hold, and are seldom worth the effort. (Push technology anyone?)
-JF
MrJoy.com -- Because coding is FUN!
So, you can give eight examples of "innovation" that have occurred since the dawn of time -- and you're concerned that we haven't had one in the last decade? Boy, that's shocking!
Well, I think that you have insanely high standards for what counts as innovative, then. To suggest that the genome was just applied engineering ignores the tremendous developments in informatics that were necessary to make it possible. More importantly, the way that genomic data is used is qualitatively different from the way that genetic data was used before the concept of genomics. Furthermore, the genome is really only the leading edge of future biology; proteomics didn't even exist 10 years ago, and it depends absolutely on genomic data.
True- but is was not surprising it was going to get done. It has been talked about, and been a goal since DNA sequencing was found. I guess I count it as engineering not innovation becuase no one was surprised that it got finished. There were (as we both mentioned) a lot of little steps along the way that in and of themselves are not that important, but overall massivly speeded up the final output (bioinformatics as an entire field). The fact that 2 groups were serious contenders, and that there were people all over the world contributing, and that in the end I think Celera won because they bought the faster more expensive machine and a different strategy make it more of an engineering feat than an innovation. Guess it is a matter of semantics, but I would say the bioinformatics advances were innovative, but the sequencing wasn't.
I think this discussion points to the nature of the way science moves. Innovation rarely looks like innovation when it is being done, it is only later that anyone noticies (lag time to acceptance) and would say that revolutionary ideas in science behave a bit the same way (is there a difference between revolutionary scientific ideas and innovation????)...with slow grudging acceptance.
Gavin Fischer
If the web browser was patented, we'd have had to wait 17 years after 1960 for Ted Nelson's patent to expire. As that's only 1977, and the first commercial microcomputer had appeared only two years earlier, we'd not have had browsers in our homes immediately. And if we waited for Ted...well, we're still waiting for transpublishing and Project Xanadu to become popular. It took several more years for reasonable graphics to show up and make graphical web browsing practical. Commodore's Amiga and others had reasonable graphics, but it wasn't until VGA came out that graphics on most personal computers began to approach TV resolutions.
I can't remember the author but TIME had an article in the recent issue with Dale Earnhardt on the cover. The point of the article is that non of our wonderful technology really works all that wonderfully. People have come to realize that waiting for v2.0 to come is not a way to run things. Things like steel and refridgerators are stable and dependable. Things like cell phone service are not. An analogy used in the article was that if a 1" steel rod were priced like cell phones it would only really be a 1" steel rod on weekend nights and holidays but the rest of the time it would be only 1/3". And if you tried to use your steel rod outside your area it would cost 6 times as much!
Yes, all the whiz bang technology is cool to play with but no one has been really able to do anything with it! The web doesn't provide significant advantage over brick and morter stores in most cases. Who wants to buy stuff online for less, make up the difference in shipping, and wait for it to arrive a week later when you can go to Target and get it today?
Do really dense people warp space more than others?
It seems as though there has been a fair amount of scientific discovery within the past ten years. We have cloning, we've slowed down light by a considerable margin, and we now know a lot more about deep-space objects and cosmology than ever before--much of it thanks to things like HST and COBE. We also now have blue gallium-nitride lasers, something thought impossible 15 years ago.
In technology, it seems as if there's a breakthrough innovation/paradigm shift every 10-15 years, and everything else is incremental. For instance, we had the transistor in 1947, the IC in 1958, the microprocessor in 1971, and the GUI and Ethernet shortly thereafter (although these weren't commercially available until the '80s). As for paradigms, the '70s brought us personal computers, the '80s the networked graphical systems, and the '90s gave us the mainstream, widespread, ubiquitous Internet. We are probably due for another one, but the world is still adjusting to the Internet as an institution (see previous articles about COngressmen ignoring e-mail for an indication as to how long we still have to go for complete acceptance), and maybe isn't quite ready for a revolutionary new idea beyond the experimental stage.
I'd argue that the Internet is really the *only* reason PCs make the list - and one day, they'll be an interesting sidenote to history as embeded devices take over more and more of the PC's function. Like Scott McNealy said, "When was the last time you had to reboot your telephone?" (Remember that to more than 99% of computer users, a disconnected PC is not much more than a nice typewriter.)
And of course, one could make the argument that the Internet itself, as revolutionary as it is in some ways, was to a significant degree built on the circuit switched backbone that only existed because of the telephone, so maybe only Alex Bell's invention deserves credit, here anyway...
"The future's good and the present is nothing to sneeze at." - Roblimo's last
You know, I'm not exactly dying to have a high power GSM phone next to my head using the only modulation method that *has* correlated to cancer in laboratory tests.
GSM cancer-phones are a BAD idea - we certainly don't know for sure that they're dangerous, but it looks quite possible that they're far more dangerous than other systems (like CDMA) where the RF signal looks like low-power noise and doesn't have very sharp high-power square waves.
If GSM is the way to change the world, leave me behind. (It pains me that the VisorPhone, possibly the coolest piece of technology integration of the past 10 years, is only available in warmware-hostile GSM form for now.)
"The future's good and the present is nothing to sneeze at." - Roblimo's last
Plus, with the USPO being as royally FUCKED UP as it is, even if you manage to create something you think is new, and no one holds rights to, someone will dredge up a ridiculous patent, and you lose all your months (years) of work.
I'm James Burke, and you're watching, Connections.
Absolutely one of the best shows ever made.
I find it disturbing that you went from talking about sheep to talking about Viagra. If I had kids (or sheep) I'd tell you to stay away from them.
That was more a statement of personal use... for everyday life, I have no need for one - my 5 minute commute leaves me withing sight of many buildings at all times, and with my home calling plan, having a cell wouldn't make sense financially (too many long-distance minutes). I don't/can't have a cell at work (no real regulation, but it sure doesn't seem like a good idea if it in't a work phone). For longer travel I have a CB in my car (a full set and a handheld), which more than cover those trips for emergency matters. I don't want a cellphone when I am at the bar after work, at the bookstore, libary, grocery store, or at a restaurant. I *really* don't want to talk on the phone when I am playing sports, at the zoo/museum, or just relaxing somewhere outside my house. I shouldn't (read: There isn't anyone who should) be using one if I am (one is) the driver of a vehicle (unless it truly is a fully hands-free model, dialing and all). At home, I can't see the value of talking on a cell instead of a landline, especially when signal degrades horribly in certain parts of the house (i.e. basement), while my cordless works just fine... add in the high cost, and it doesn't seem worth it. One of my friends here moved into a new house recently, and doesn't have a land-line phone, just his cell... but he doesn't even use that all that much.
If I'm not home or at work, barring a major disaster, there's no reason for me to call anyone and no reason for anyone to reach me... heck - I'll probably be home or at work soon enough, and if it happens to be a life-threatening event, chances are I can't do anything about it or get wherever it is anyway. That's just my situation and desire.
I currently run four computers (Linux x86, BSD x86, NT x86, Linux Alpha) at home, have X-10 integration with the systems, and love technology in all its many forms, but I have yet to see the value add of a cell phone in my life.
That being said - I will probably get one for my fiancee for her driving to school an hour each way on fairly desolate roads this fall (of course, by then she'll be my wife)... I don't think the phone will ever be used, but it is more of a peace of mind issue.
What I would like is a portable e-mail device. No voice - just turn it on and off when I like, and it can stat my other mailboxes (doesn't need its own) and let me browse through what is waiting there. I don't need to send anything, just see if a message I'm waiting for has arrived yet with tracking info, etc... of more use when I'm in another room than out on the go (802.11 would be fine), but that's all I really want/need.
I guess I don't understand the utility for cellphones in people's everyday lives (non-buisness). I use my regular phone quite a bit, but I really haven't met a moment where I wish I was there when someone called and left a voice message...
Sorry for the extended rant 8^) For all that I do, I can't see cell phones as "becoming pretty indispensible."
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"It's tough to be bilingual when you get hit in the head."
Yeah - I see where it could come in handy, but I really don't run into those situations (I also don't have call waiting - another good waste, by the way)... I guess I never have trouble meeting people somewhere because I don't live in a city (Rochester, MN is just a large town ~80k persons)... and even when I was back in the NYC area, I never had those problems, but that probably comes from the people I'm around and the places I go. The being caught up and being late is probably the only example that I can think of that would be relevant, and that only works if the other person is by a known phone (be it cell or land-line).
:)
:)
Like I said - it could be convenient in some situations, but really, it wouldn't make much of a value add to my life (I'd always have it off except when I'd be calling out...) and they certainly aren't worth the price - it's a lot per month to play snake, that's for sure
If they aren't earth-shatteringly important and it doesn't make it that much harder to cope, it can't be "becoming pretty indispensible"... not any more than extra ricotta cheese with stuffed shells, anyway
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"It's tough to be bilingual when you get hit in the head."
Cell phones aren't really an innovation - they are just the progression of other parts... they are essentially just small two-way radios, and those have been around for quite some time. The light, small, long-life batteries are more of an innovation than the cell phone itself, and that isn't really all that ground-breaking...
Now magnetic storage, atomic-scale self assembly, quantum computing... that kind of stuff is innovative...
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"It's tough to be bilingual when you get hit in the head."
The handoff between towers is a really neat idea, and I'll agree that is a pretty nifty feat... the original poster made the distinction on size, though ("not the fridge-sized things from the 80s"), and that's what provoked my comments. The cellular networks are far more of an innovation than the cellular phone itself - that's probably a more accurate statement.
I'll agree, a lot of the battery stuff was a linear progression, but again, I had a narrower focus on the phone rather than the all-encompassing 'cell-phone idea'. They still haven't changed my life at all - I have yet to find a use for one in my life... unless the prices dramatically drop for service...
--
"It's tough to be bilingual when you get hit in the head."
Tom Swiss | the infamous tms | http://www.infamous.net/
Tom Swiss | the infamous tms | my blog
You cannot wash away blood with blood
I think the problem is not so much that there's no innovation going on, but that scientific fields are becoming so specialized that an outside observer can't TELL there's any innovation going on... These days, everyone's area of knowlege has to be pretty narrow in order to be knowlegeable enough to do any cutting-edge research, with the end result being that fields of research are generally pretty isolated.
Also, it generally takes a lot of very expensive equipment to do cutting-edge research nowadays, which tends to restrict the field to academia and large corporations -- not that innovative ideas can't come out of either of these two areas, but they can be restrictive working environments for people wanting to research crazy, unprecedented ideas...
Unless your name is Einstein ("what happens as you get faster to the speed of light?") or Wright ("Hmm, if we stick static wings on this bicycle, maybe we can fly better than the guys trying to flap"), or Ford ("Hey, what if we made a machine to build a bunch of identical parts, and used humans to assemble the parts into lots of cars, instead of building carriages by hand?"), you're only likely to see incremental improvement.
Incremental improvement isn't bad. The automobile, passenger air travel, and yes, 300-baud modems through 56K modems are all examples of incremental improvement.
Some technologies which seem like breakthroughs (MP3 vs. uncompressed .WAV) are merely incremental -- I remember when you got "graphics" by downloading uncompressed memory dumps of video RAM. Then there was .GIF (lossless compression, quick to view on a '286). Then - when CPUs permitted it - .JPG (lossy compression that required a 386 or 486 to render in 2-3 seconds per image).
But yes, evolution of technology does take years.
I like games like CivII and Alpha Centauri, where the "waiting" of 10 years between breakthrough and application can be over in a night. Unfortunately, real life ain't like that - if it takes 10 years of "game time", it takes 10 years of "real time".
As for comparisons between the airplane and the rocket for space exploration... well, until there's somewhere there worth going to, or something there worth bringing back, nobody's gonna build the technology to make it worthwhile. This is (IMHO) sad, verging on the tragic, but true.
had he patented it it would have never developed like it has. what he did was a very honorable thing.
http://www.livejournal.com/users/cixel
I'll tell you why. sure this is a rant but just look at how the masses are pouring in from everywhere, dropping their existing majors so they can cash-in on the computer industry. It makes me sick. Sooner or later, sooner I hope they will realize this isnt something that can just be learned in school and you never have to learn again.
This is more than a career this is a lifestyle.
You will be learning for the REST OF YOUR LIFE.
Alot of people joining this industry now dont realize this and its going to bite them in the ass later when they find out.
You cant go out and take 1 unix course or get an MCSE and automatically youre some bigshot computer guy. If innovation is being stifled by anything its the infiltration by idiots.
Oh and a correction: you should have said no innovation since napster came out because peer to peer filesharing is pretty revolutionary and innovative. I just want to see more programs piggyback on top of the huge existing networks now like some sort of packet based bbs with news that would exist over peer to peer.
http://www.livejournal.com/users/cixel
I guess you're right it is an evolution. So my question remains, when are BBS's coming back? Smaller groups of people get more done more efficently than larger groups. Its inevitable, just as small tribes in south america split when the number reaches somewhere between 7 and 15.
http://www.livejournal.com/users/cixel
I hope you're not serious
But what I actually wanted to say, is: There probably have been some great innovations in the last ten years or so, they just haven't made it to the market yet, or we haven't seen their impact. If you ask again in, say, five years, what innovations there were in the 1990s, we will be able to answer. But it's too early now, I think.
Oh, and BTW: I would consider cloning quite an innovation. And the proof of Fermat's theorem. And cell phones - the ones we have now, not the fridge-sized things from the 80s
EagerEyes.org: Visualization and Visual Communication
- 2: genome
Nah, KDE rulez![ducks, runs for cover]
Yeah, the human genome project is probably going to have had the biggest impact, when we look back in ten years time. Of course, not necessarily in a good way...
The biggest innovation of all is from Microsoft. Just ask them.
It's Microsoft... err... ummm... uhh... Well, I know it's SOME Microsoft product!
General Relativity: Space-time tells matter where to go; Matter tells space-time what shape to be.
General Relativity: Space-time tells matter where to go; Matter tells space-time what shape to be.
I think, above and beyond all other success stories on the Internet, one stands out above all others. Highly innovative, technically superior, ingeneous, furry, and misspelled.
View the incarnation of true social innovation on the Internet.
Learn from your parents' mistakes: use birth control.
if(to_b || !to_b) //That is the question
When I heard that joke it was:
#define QUESTION(b) (2*b) | ~(2*b)
____________________
___
The ends are ape-chosen, only the means are man's. -- Aldous Huxley
Yeah, ummm hello... Cloning. That is revolutionary, no evolutionary. In a few decades, we will all look back to Dolly as a major turning point.
Ohh, and what about Windows 2000... r-e-v-o-l-u-t-i-o-n (sigh).
How about Analytic Geometry, courtesy of Descartes? What about Newton's fomulation of the Law of Gravity, that had some pretty profound effects and wasn't altogether incremental (though f=ma admittidly was.) Or better yet, how about the invention of the telescope (or do you presume that to be incremental from having lenses?) How about vaccinations, which were accidentally descovered. Or what about penicillin another accidental revolution? Some inventions were truly revolutionary. However most were certainly not. As Newton aptly put it in a letter to Robert Hooke, "If I had seen further, it is by standing upon the shoulder of giants."
True true.
War crimes, torture, lies, illegal spying... Would someone give Bush a blowjob, already, so he can be impeached?
- ftp
- archie
- gopher
- lynx
- Mosaic
- Netscape
- IE
None of these in and of themselves are revolutionary or particularly "innovative". They build on previous work. That is how the human race advances; by building on previous work. Innovation just doesn't happen overnight, and innovative ideas don't always immediatly catch on.There's been enough significant enhancements in most of our lifetimes to realize this.
http://www.naildrivin5.com/davec
If Einstein hadn't been around, someone else would have put together the stuff that is Special Relativty within a few years, certainly by 1920. A number of people were working on similar formalisms and would have put it together. General Relativity however is a whole other story. Most historians of the field doubt it would have been developed for quite some time, possibly as late as the 1970's or maybe even later. To be sure, advances in other directions would have started to crowd in on the same areas, but really, GR was quite a leap.
My understanding is that while it is true that the math Einstein did wasn't anything truely unique, he was pretty much the only person with the vision that this type of math had applications to the area of gravity. I gather that nobody in that timeframe was likely to make the conceptual leaps that he did in GR, whereas those in SR were very close to a number of investigators in the field.
I am not a huge science historian, but it does seem fairly clear that the ideas in SR were floating around and would have been put together relativley (no pun intended) quickly by others without Einstein.
My understanding was that nobody else at the time seems to have been doing much with gravity, and certainly nobody else was doing anything in the area of applying these geometrical methods and ideas to it. It was/is a tough bit of math and without the "vision" that gave Einstein the confidence to push though that, few would have kept at it.
Then again, my admiditly small history of science knowledge in general is warped by my perceptions coming from a HE background with only a little bit of GR coursework. Since gravity is not given much consideration in HE work, I may have a wrong impression.
What always amazes me when studying the sciences is how transparent so many of these revolutionary ideas are after they have had a few decades to get the kinks worked out of them and the teaching techniques to incorporate them. Heck, we teach GR in a pretty sophisitcated form to undergrads! The photo-electric effect got Einstein the Nobel Prize and I've explained that to my mom!
side note: E was invented in, if i am remembering correctly, the 30's
"Weasling out of work is important to learn; it is what separates humans from animals. Except for weasels."
Dude, it's a good thing you're not famous, or this statement would come back to haunt you like Bill Gates and that 640K thing.
As opposed to a sudden accretion? OK, sorry, I'm a smartass. Good post, though.
I think as the trend goes more to wireless, compact computing, it will enable people to be less restricted in where they work. You no longer need to be at your desk 8-5 to be productive. That, I think, will have an impact on people's lives.
"This message is composed of 100% recycled electrons."
The great technological achievements were not created with the idea of "Let's do this, so we can make a million bucks off of it.". In fact, the idea of applying a business model to technological ideas has done nothing but cripple the movement.
I don't think that's quite right. First, Thomas Edison was probably responsible for as much technological innovation as anyone, and all he thought about was how to make money from his inventions. Second, your argument would imply that Open Source methodologies would lead to greater innovation, and frankly, that hasn't happened. At least not yet...
The internet information revolution was just that, a revolution. It completely changed how many things are done, like stock market trading for instance. These were revolutionary changes in that things changed fast and what came about was nothing like what was in place previously.
Now it appears that the revolution is for the most part over, at least in the US. We are left to develop and improve on what we already have. This is an evolutionary process of gradual improvement. This will continue , in general, until the next big revolutionary change and the cycle will repeat itself.
In short major innovations are uncommon, gradual improvement is the norm. Welcome back to normal.
So far I've gotten all my Karma from telling people they are wrong... :)
To add on to that, UNIX was created under the guise (to management) of making a Patent Application System. Great example of programmers itch getting around beauracracy to develop some neat things.
Just my 2 cents.
irc
irc w/ bots
irc w/ custom client for mp3s=napster
p2p/filesharing
it was already there, it just wasn't attractive to the mass of adverage computer users. no it is, now it's huge (ok, maybe dieing)
-Jon
Streamripper
this is my sig.
He is talking about innovations that:
came out of left field, shook the world by its roots, gained acceptance and you can't live without it
All of the Bio-blah advances are really cool, but they have yet to get to the stage of "Can't live without it." Some people might claim the cell-phone but even Dick Tracy and Star Trek had these. --Angus
Lets narrow it down to the last 115 years or so. Major "innovations" according to your definition would be: the Automobile, airplanes, radio, TV, Nuclear Power, Computer, PC, Internet.... can you think of anything else? No, and neither can I.
Oh, wait, let's see here. Name something invented in the past hundred years which is now one of the things most taken for granted and yet is IMPOSSIBLE to live in this modern world without.
Give up?
Plastics.
That's just the 20th century. Name the most revolutionary product of the 19th century.
I would lay my money down on Steel.
I can't believe that everyone here is trying to think about things that move, that work, that entertain us. Is that all anyone can think about nowdays? When I look at a great modern invention, I don't think about the computer. Heck, the computer was invented back in China around 800BC with the abacus. We've just improved it to suit our needs. Let's praise for a second the transistor (or vacuum tube if you like). Or silicon. Things we BUILD, not things we use.
Just try to think for a second what we have built, not what we use daily. Someone who praises the microwave as a technological breakthrough has a pretty narrow mind. Don't think about current "technology." It's how it's built. You want major innovations? Well, if you want technological revelations, I'd say wait another hundred years. Most things we honor right now not going to be used in a hundred years. I'd lay my money down on the elmination of the radio and of the Microwave, and who knows how "safe" airplanes will be compared to other means of travel 100 years from now (or how efficient). I mean, Trains were a popular means of travel 100 years ago, and now Amtrack is struggling to stay alive. Ask someone 100 years ago about what they would think is a wonderful invention, and I'm sure many would say the train.
We don't use the train much for personal travel anymore. But we still use it's steel.
...I think that's spot on. The great technological achievements were not created with the idea of "Let's do this, so we can make a million bucks off of it.". In fact, the idea of applying a business model to technological ideas has done nothing but cripple the movement. Example: UNIX is born at Bell Labs. Ritchie and the crew didn't create UNIX to make money...they built it because they had the 'programmers itch'. Bell Labs took it over, seeing that they could make a wad of cash off of it, and UNIX has been evolving at a snails pace ever since.
The great things [UNIX, the Web, e-mail...hell,e ven Slashdot] were created because some geek thought it would be cool, or as a tool to get something done more effectively. All capitilization of technology has done is sloooow it down.
--Just Another Pimp A$$ Perl Hacker
El riesgo vive siempre!
Dude! Maybe you should count to ten before hitting submit next time? :)
One, you were awfully nasty with him and there was no reason to be.
Two, I don't consider genomics to be an innovation. I consider Polymerase Chain Reaction to be an innovation, but seqencing the genome has been known to be possible for a long time. Now proteinomics, on the other hand, that'll take some doing.
Oddly enough, James Burke believes that the plow was what allowed europeans to have time to think and invent. Since they didn't have to make food all the time, they had spare time, most of which was wasted but some of which was used. In a way, plenty was the mother of invention... or maybe it's the mysterious father.
We have a vaccine for AIDS now.
Trouble is, it's more lethal than the virus.
First off, I'd argue with your definition of innovation a little, but I understand what you mean. Now, lets look at the timetable of the innovations you deem worthy enough to mention. Doesn't that stretch through the whole course of human history?
Lets narrow it down to the last 115 years or so. Major "innovations" according to your definition would be: the Automobile, airplanes, radio, TV, Nuclear Power, Computer, PC, Internet.... can you think of anything else? No, and neither can I. Lets assume for the sake of argument there's two other world changing "innovations" I've forgotten. That gives us 10 innovations in 115 years. Wow. That's slightly slower than 1 every 10 years.
Are you expecting these to come about overnight? The vast majority of things are just improvements and refinements of other ideas, and many of them do revolutionize the way we do things. You just can't set an alarm clock and expect a new one every other year. That's grossly optimistic at best and utterly naive at worst.
Mordred
I don't know what you mean. My morning commute consists of a trip to the bathroom to brush my teeth*. For some of us, it's already happening.
It seems many people think that we're at the end of the information revolution. Well, from my viewpoint, it's really only just warming up. I'm expecting to see it continue for at least the next fifty years and I wouldn't be surprised to see it lasting into two or more centuries (well, not personally. But perhaps?)
Rich
*I do usually have a shower as well.
Rich
"They will evolve before they are ready to be delcared a landmark."
Wow... that was really profound (I mean it). I never looked at the evolution at technology in such a way. It's sort of how we know tectonic plates are moving all the time, but everyone doesn't notice it until an earthquake. Well, there might be a better analogy, but I just finished watching Dante's Peak.
Black holes are where the Matrix raised SIGFPE
Peer to Peer filesharing is new??? Lantastic, anyone? To most who've been in the industry a while, peer to peer is yet another move in the slow cycling of technology... "Our servers are so fast, we'll have one big one and people will just need thin clients." "Oh no! Our servers are too slow, lets get a lot of them and spread them around." Rinse and repeat (every 5 years or so). The real innnovation will occur if we can get the content pushed out to the Internet POPs from central locations. Put fiber in my house with a link to my favorite TV shows served off of my local ISPs content server and we're getting somewhere. I'm with you on the MCSE thing. It's gotten so bad I never even use it as criteria when I'm interviewing someone.
"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistiguishable from magic." - Arthur C. Clarke
Come on guys. Taking wireless beyond talking and stopping the intenet being an internetwork of wired networks is real innovation. It's happening on lots of fronts and being really innovative. Think GPRS, 3G, 4G, i-Mode, Bluetooth, 802.11b, HomeRF, HyperLan/2, 802.11a etc..
Liberating mankind from needing a physical place of work has got to count as innovation.
- Paul
In all the examples you gave all took time to evolve once they were "discovered".
The net and to some extent the pc havent had enough time to evolve yet to effect us the way some of the other stuff you mentioned.
I think that telivision and radio do not belong on a list of things that humans cant live without.
I can and do.
The printing press was a much greater inovation.
Give the net time and it might be as important to
me as the others. It has to evolve allot more to reach the status of the others.
Lets look at what the net does that is new:
-email == fax/snail mail/phone/fedx
-streamin media == radio/tv
-voice over ip == phone
-search engine == card catalog
-newgroups/irc == water cooler conversations/conventions
Not much that is new....
But it has changed the way allot of people
live and work.
I think more accurate would be to say that the emphasis on monetization is what slows down innovation. Money itself is a neccessary prerequisite to innovation in many fields (just as one example, organic chemistry labs are incredibly expensive in terms of reagent costs and instrumentation (figure USD500K+ for a good NMR alone)). CS is one of a very few fields where fundamental revolutions can take place with just one person's thoughts in their head and minimal bucks for some computer hardware to realize the implementation (c.f. Berners-Lee and the web), mathematics would be another (there all you need is one brilliant person and some paper and pencils ;-) ).
--
News for geeks in Austin: www.geekaustin.org
News for Geeks in Austin, TX
Well, brute force sequencing of the human genome isn't really very earth-shattering; I continue to not understand what the hullabaloo there is all about.
Tech advances continue to be the main innovative force lifting all boats - just a couple examples that will soon be again revolutionizing computing (and everything else along with it): quantum computing and holographic storage. Within our lifetime we should expect to see teleportation and holodecks, and instantaneous food synthesis will likely solve most of the worlds hunger problems, all with technology being concretely developed in research labs right now.
So what? We now have our 'own fucking genome' but we have no clue what any of it means except for trivially small percentage. Figuring out what it means is many orders of magnitude more difficult, and in that, we basically have no clue.
We are just plain happy with what we have now.
--
Je t'aime Stéphanie
Sad to say, but for the most part people haven't ever developed cures for diseases. Antibiotics are the only cure that's ever really worked. Every other really significant development has been in prevention, either in vaccination or public health measures like water purification that prevent the spread of diseases. Everything else is pretty much giving the body help in doing its own job fighting off disease.
If you want to know a new area of comparatively recent research, though, look at ulcers. Until very recently people thought that ulcers were an organic problem in which the body naturally produced too much stomach acid, so there was no cure- just long term treatment that happened to be very profitable for the drug companies. Then somebody discovered that the excess acid production was caused by a bacterial (Helicobacter pylori) infection that could be eliminated by a regimen of antibiotics, eliminating the need to be dependent on expensive drugs. Naturally the drug companies aren't happy with this. They've tried unsuccessfully to discredit the research, and they've also tried more successfully to keep it out of the public eye. The real reason that they're encouraging people to take Pepcid, Tagamet, etc. without consulting their doctors is so that they won't find out that their heartburn is caused by a curable ulcer. IMO it's disgusting.
There's no point in questioning authority if you aren't going to listen to the answers.
Well, I think that you have insanely high standards for what counts as innovative, then. To suggest that the genome was just applied engineering ignores the tremendous developments in informatics that were necessary to make it possible. More importantly, the way that genomic data is used is qualitatively different from the way that genetic data was used before the concept of genomics. Furthermore, the genome is really only the leading edge of future biology; proteomics didn't even exist 10 years ago, and it depends absolutely on genomic data.
And, fundamentally, I think that this is one of two really critically important things to realize. Most of the change that takes place in the world is incremental and evolutionary, rather than earthshattering and revolutionary. The other important thing to understand is that often innovations have a long lead time. The web took the better part of a decade to turn from a curiosity to a passtime to a lynchpin of the economy- and that's fast as these things go. Most really innovative concepts take decades to really change the world, and it's only with a long historical view that we realize how critically they impact our lives. Just because the innovations of the past ten years haven't turned the world upside down yet doesn't mean that they won't, and in many cases it won't be until after that happens that we'll be able to identify them.
There's no point in questioning authority if you aren't going to listen to the answers.
I don't think you can things have slowed down, certainly not in the last 10 years;
:-)
The use of the GSM network has changed business and home-life (I was recently involved in an argument about what percentage of school children in the UK had mobile phones, and I was arguing that it was under 50%).
DTV is changing television, 600 channels is only the start, Tivo changes the way you watch television (I've not seen an advertisment on TV for 4 months).
DTV has also changed things radically in the area of radio communications, with breath-taking research being done in signal amplification and compression.
Gene therepy is starting to be used, first lives already saved.
I think your problem is that innovation in the way the Internet works has slowed, but that's because it's getting boring and people have moved on to more interesting things
Lots Of Love
Bill Ray
To my knowledge there has never been a major scientific discovery which can not be considered an incremental advance on something else.
Athletic Scholarships to universities make as much sense as academic scholarships to sports teams.
Athletic Scholarships to universities make as much sense as academic scholarships to sports teams.
Ack, you know what, I think I like the M$ world better!
Ugh, no thank you, a slow as Java VM that is a pain in the ass to program decent UI's in and that cannot do half of what a REAL programming language can do **cough** ASM **cough**,
shit, you make Windows actualy sound rather nice, LOL.
Need help treating your acne? Come here!
Innovative products rarely take the world at a storm the few years after their creation, so it is a bit recent to see any technological breakthrought made in the last 10 years (but, if I had to name one, cell phones is probably the biggest one since civil airplane)
> But think carefully, can you really name something developed in the last nine years that came out of left field, shook the world by its roots, gained acceptance and you can't live without it
Fermat theorem proof, of course.
Cheers,
--fred
1 reply beneath your current threshold.
Are you accusing me of seXX0ring sheep?!?! I will have you know that my Viagra induced escapades only involve Goats. Come on, you don't think that Senor Goat got that prolapsed with someone (me) plugging him with undrugged genitalia, did you?
Hopefully I didn't put any [] around my words.
I wouldn't say that the web browser was the latest innovation in science and technology. I don't even know if I would even say that the web browser was so much an innovation in technology as it was a stylistic leap forward for computers. (I would probably say the same about the GUI).
I would say, that, just off the top of my head, that cloning a sheep was a pretty innovative use of science\technology. I am sure that there is plenty of other things we can think up. Take pharmacology, Viagra to the side, I am sure that their has been dozens of new medications devised in the past decade. Gabapentin comes to mind. In other areas of technology, the research on hybrid cars comes to mind. I am sure that people out there can think of dozens of innovations.
And of course, I can't forget to mention "Ginger"...
Hopefully I didn't put any [] around my words.
First of all, there are plenty of innovation (I know you're already getting flamed by them, so I won't name them). But I think that the reason that you feel the way you do is because we live in a world of products that are proven through word of mouth and reviews...
/. more often, cause the mapping of the genome, and the soon to be cracked sciences of nano-technology and quantum computing screams innovation...
Lemmie ask you, do you own a TiVo? Its a new innovation on TV (not quite a VCR... more of a convience in watching TV). Most people don't own one yet, but in a few years everyone will. It first needs to be fine tuned, and you have to hear good reviews of it before it is released.
Didn't notive that innovation, did ya? It wasn't marketed the moment it came out, but it is once there was a following (and not marketed to death, because it isn't "mainstream" yet).
The public doesn't want brand new innovations, they want a reliable product that is already proven. So companies downplay the breakthrough until it has a following and has proven to be a product worth having.
On the non-product science side, you have to watch the news or read
--
Good quote, too many chars. Seriously, the slashdot 120 char limit sucks!
Funny you should ask. That's exactly what Compaq did with IBM's ROMs, resulting in the availability of relatively cheap PC's, much like the one you are surely using to read these words. Without their reverse-engineering effort to make cheap PC's, the web revolution might have never moved beyon the university CS labs.
Now that's what I call innovation!!!
Information wants to be anthropomorphized.
--
Ikaruga scoreboard (supports netranking)
My own impressions about the development of relativity theory come from Kip Thorne's entertaining book _Black Holes & Time Warps_. It has a heavy emphasis on history for a book of its type.
--
Ikaruga scoreboard (supports netranking)
I do think that things that are free can be better than patented, just because they catch on faster and easier. This is the problem, that current IP laws in the U.S. stifle innovation. Recently I read about a patent on the crustless peanut butter and jelly sandwich. This only harms scientists and engineers that are fully intelligent and capable of making "the next big thing(TM)" but the (TM) is part of the problem that holds them back.
I think there are a few ideas out there that are really great, but will not be useful enough and widespread for everyone to change society. ADSL is one such technology. GSM phones are another. I can name countless small advances like that, but for the next big thing, I'd say that it will probably not be in the computer or communications field. I'd put my bets on it being either mechanical (a cheap, environmental friendly engine or fuel) or in the health industry (finding a cure for diseases, or something to modify the genome in a way to eliminate problems.) Of course, this sort of thing is seemingly random. So unless I am the one that has the idea to invent that will change the world, I can't really guess what it will be.
Mas vale cholo, que mal acompañado.
I've not heard anything about this. Do you have any links to articles or the research done about this? I currently use a GSM phone and it works well but if there is a real hazard, why is this technology spreading in the U.S.? We usually end up behind on trends like this if there is a potential health hazard.
Mas vale cholo, que mal acompañado.
what about the super-dee-duper hydrogen scooter that was such a big deal a few months ago?
But think of the innovations in that industry ... profitability, for one!
sulli
RTFJ.
In posing this question to the slashdot community I'm sure to receive some blistering flames claiming that I'm too narrow minded in my view of what innovation is. But think carefully, can you really name something developed in the last nine years that came out of left field, shook the world by its roots, gained acceptance and you can't live without it? I consider innovations to be things such as the wheel, fire, airplanes, mechanized warfare, the radio, television, PC, and the Internet.
I'm sure a lot of people would gladly live without, and even more people be alive without, mechanized warfare.
Steven
-- I have marked myself unwilling to moderate-- I don't have other accounts to artificially inflate the karma of
All your innovation are belong to us.
Did he forget about the MP3??
I'd say that was a pretty big innovation that's crept into everyone's life and even changed how we think about intellectual property.
Sure, you could argue that it's just an incremental improvement on previous compressions, but then again, the graphical browser is basically just an incremental improvement on the text-browsers that we've had since the 60's.
But on another note, I really don't think that a technology that hasn't even made it's first half-century should be prematurely lumped into the same category as millenially old innovations as wheels and mechanizing warfare.
Why doesn't someone find some real news to post instead of just picking these abstract arguments? I'd call that an innovation.
-Glires
Meanwhile, it makes us rethink marketing. What do you do when only obselescence gets you to re-buy a movie when the disc hardly degrades over time. Widescreen or Pan-and-scan. Both? Two editions? Collector's editions? Anti-copying devices and region encoding. Do video tapes get released before or after the DVD? What about the "next format."
Consider this when you also think about the music industry and mp3s. Same scenario, different medium. No, I think things are changing very rapidly. We are so used to expanding technologies, they don't excite us as much anymore.
----------------------
What about antibiotics, which have probably more than any single other invention extended life expectancy in Industrial civilization. Vacines. The identification of DNA and genes, this includes the human genome project, but this has been ongoing for quite a while. The Haber process for making ammonia, which is the basis for almost all fertilizer and exposives production world wide. Just because you don't see somthing as a consumer doesn't make an innovation any less significant.
Ladies and Gentlemen, this is the age of the acronym.
<groan>Yet another language to learn.</groan>
No, your children are not the special ones. Nor are your pets.
The Stirling engine is one of the oldest kinds of external combustion engines, invented way back in 1816. It is very simple, much less complex than the internal combustion engine that is more popular and was first used for steam power. I remember in HS our ecology class was researching it's use with hydrogen created by solar power and hydrolysis to use as a renewable energy source, but the wasted energy is incredible. It is still useful because of how many different types of fuel can be used with it, it is safe, and the pollution level is low. At any rate, it is certainly not the next "great thing"
More info here , though from a biased perspective.
Ceci n'est pas un post
We'd still be using gopher :)
The 60s were where it was at for military innovation. Nothing like a cold war to fuel the fires of iginuity. But everything has been stepping stones. Wanna bet some guy didn't just design a wheel one day, he (I can't tell gender under all of the caveman furs, so I default to he) probably found a slightly round rock, noticed something, and enhanced it. Hell, maybe the wheel was an old tree log, no invention there, just a discover.
--- I used to moderate, then I read the -1 articles and decided having to filter through them was not worth it.
You are spot on. One might go so far as to say that innovation will be stagnate until America finds a new enemy. It's fairly well documented that we invented the Internet as a function of building a distributed network, just in case those pesky Russians tried to take out our communications. Heck, you can even go back to the original internet, the telegraph. We developed that too.
I also tend to agree with you about the difference between discovering something and innovating. I think most *innovations* are more a function of timing, take the invention of penicillin... lots of luck mixed in with some good timing. Anyways, I doubt people wake up in the morning and dacide to innovate. That's the funny thing about all the hot air our friends in Redmond blow around.
Yours,
All the best,
--Bob
OK, so what has came out of the 21 century, cars, planes, TV, Computers, Space vehicles, global communication networks, to name a few, but what are they? The car, an improved wagon, an airplane an improved glider, and so on. Not to many great innovations really just came out of left field, most were breakthroughs in the ever-improving world. The wheel, just an improved rock, innovation comes from improving what you have until it becomes something new.
...Is key to the whole question. If you want to be this stingy with it, then television, PCs, and the Internet are actually incremental improvements on radio (effectively instantaneous distance communication), which would itself be an improvement on the telegraph. The Web browser is a collection of incremental improvements that brought about a revolution in information exchange.
There is a huge amount of innovation going on all around you. Most of it by people who do it for the sake of the creative process, rather than for the dollars involved.
Another factor is time delay. The really fundamental innovations had their biggest impact years or decades after the actual invention. And frequently in areas where the impact was not expected.
Floating face-down in a river of regret...and thoughts of you...
Thank you, Tim Berners-Lee, for not patenting the web browser.
...if the web browser was patented? Thank you, Tim Burners-Lee.
You can obviously make quite a living of patenting very broad ideas and appling them to everyone that is making a buck. By the way I just patented the act of moving a single finger and having a corresponding result appear on a terminal. So please stop typing before I sick my lawyers on you.
Maybe it's just me, but I can't imagine trying to get along without ICQ or my collection of MP3s...(the kind that I ripped from cd's I own.) I think that these are two technologies that have significantly changed the online world, and or pushed more people to use computers and the Internet.
Bah!
I must say that WAP phones and other handheld devices are poised to change the world yet again. Within the next 3 years, I'm betting that the technology will become so 'hot' that it will be odd to own a cell phone that DOESN'T do more than just make phone calls. Try the browser at http://www.winwap.com sometime. You'll get a fairly good idea of where WAP is right now, and with a little imagination, where it's going.
Javascript + Nintendo DSi = DSiCade
It's a rephrasing of the Greek belief that history repeats itself. The only difference is that in modern cultures we believe that by learning from history we can prevent the same mistakes from reoccurring. I sincerely doubt that you would have any luck tracking down the original quoter (or mis-quoter depending on your viewpoint). If you'd like to try, your best bet would be to post it as a question on http://www.straightdope.com. Good luck!
Javascript + Nintendo DSi = DSiCade
Couple this with the fact that research in the past half-century has been conducted more and more by large teams of scientists and engineers, where inter-communication is required, and it is even easier to see the path from Point A to Point B without having to acknowledge any individual as a genius. Thus, if you are close to the process, you don't get the "Wow!" slap in the face that you would get if you looked away for a month and then were presented with the final product.
Final thought: We have become so accustomed to *constant* innovation that we tend to only notice when it has ceased! Moore's Law is not a law of stagnation, but rather one of assumed dramatic innovation! The mere fact that it remains largely assumed proves that there continues to be massive innovation!
BTW, non-bio tech examples: Flash memory, IBM MicroDrive, cheap digital photography, GHz+ processor speeds (which according to many rags a few years ago were physically impossible even with die-shrinkage), home networking without wires, hybrid low-emmision vehicles, etc.
What is innovative about taking something that already exists in plentitude, and decoding what parts do what!?! Unix didn't just pop up out of a flower, waiting for someone to find it. The PC didn't grow on a fruit tree, or out of someone abdoman. They came out of someone's head, and idea, a fleeting thought.
:)
I wish I could beleive that genome's where an innovative idea, but I have enough of them already, I don't need anymore
I shop without clicks. ZERO click shopping. (Unless there is a pebbel stuck in the wheel of my cart, then it is "tenthousand clicks" shopping :-)
;-)
...)
Enough nonsence.
What about NMR scanners (medical)? This baby saved my girlfriends life!
Some thoughts about extremely slow innovation: I believe American scolars still learn emperial measurement systems (first). Didn't some rather large space agency loose an expensive sattellite recently because of that?
And for those that like making fun of Europeans more: In Europe they're creating a new currency. They had a really BIG opportunity ("previewable innovation" to use a contradictio in terminis that clearly expresses what I mean) to get rid of cents once and for all (counting in integers is easier for humans and computers) but NO, NO. They had to make the nominal (1€) so enormously large!
I can not find _any_ innovation that wasn't incremental if you search long enough. (including the wheel, combustable and steem engine,
As you all noticed I don't like to spell sheck.
120 chars is not enough!
$man microsoft
Crowded elevator smell different to midget. -Chinese Proverb
The great technological achievements were not created with the idea of "Let's do this, so we can make a million bucks off of it.". The technological achievements cited by the original author (HTML, radio, television) were not technical achievements of any kind. They were all just a small step taken after the small step before them. The only thing made these achievements worthy of history: they were each accepted by the masses as a usable product. SGML existed years before HTML... no one made a big deal about it. Unix (as you pointed out) was invented long before it became a recognizable power. All of these types of technical achievements have happened in the past few years. Scientific advances in biology and nano technology as well as simple changes like the standardization of xml and the popularization of distributed applications and peer to peer file sharing. The only difference between these advancements and the ones the original author is looking for, is that none of the technologies I pointed out are done. They will each evolve before they are ready to be declared a landmark. It isn't until these technologies solve very large real world problems that they will be worthy of history books. Most likely it will be done for money.
The process of shattering DNA strands, sequencing them, and tacking the whole thing together with a computer is one hell of an innovation. We may not be able to live without it yet, but plenty of people say that about the web. Certainly doesn't mean there's no innovation going on. Or are we limiting our discussion to the internet world?
So sure, we're bound to have economic slowdown, and maybe some technological slowdown to a more consistent growth rate, but it's not going away. And I highly doubt the DMCA or other craziness aimed at controlling the new technology known as the internet will really do much to stifle its growth. P2P, digital copies of copyrighted material, and other sorts of current issues will not go away. The question is, which country/region/group will most effectively embrace the new technology and let it grow. You may remember that the printing press was bad for the Catholic church back in the old days, as it allowed the masses to have their own copies of the Bible which the Catholic church wished to have strict control of who had and didn't have such info. Obviously, that didn't work, and it ended up helping form the USA. So the more the RIAA and laws like the DMCA try to restrict all this new tech, the more they set our country up for failure.
"Those who forget the past, are doomed to repeat it." - (I forget who said this first, but it's a famous quote.) -- Sorry if I went a little off topic, just my opinions on the state of this new technology.
Everyone's too busy downloading pr0n.
If a recession is coming (which is still a subject to debate) it may well be beneficial to the tech field. That's simply because in recession companies have to add real value to survive. VC money will be scarce and those competing will have to show something that really can change people's lives not yet another web outfit that sells socks online. Take the UK in the early eighties for instance. That was the time of a big recession there. Huge unemployment in the West Midlands pushed young people to found their own companies which resulted in a software boom of a kind. Most of them were game companies writing for eight bit home computers. Most of those companies no longer exist but when they did (some of them were around for more than 10 years) they produced some amazing games that I still play today.
Your pizza just the way you ought to have it.
Innovation has never happened in leaps and bounds.. It takes baby steps. Take, for instance, the genetic modification of goats to produce spider silk instead of milk. That could be a world-changer, and is certianly innovative, but it is going to take some time.
The cellular industry: Instead of paying hundreds a month for a 4 pound, foot long phone, I can pay 40 bucks a month and I have a phone that could (if I was so motivated) hide in my mouth. I am right now wearing a SkyTel 2-way pager. Wow.. I mean this stuff is really cool... It just takes some hindsight to figure out what it all means.
Brant
Brant
Argle. Bargle.
The last innovation that meets your criteria is probably the advent of a global telephone network, or maybe sattelite communication. Web browsers go into the same category of 'incremental improvement' which you say has stagnated recently. What percentage of people in the world do you think "can't live without" their copy of IE 5.5?
Thanks to recent innovation, we now have talking Vodka bottles
You can accomplish anything you set your mind to. The impossible just takes a little longer.
1: p2p
2: genome
What about peer to peer. Not just Napster either... I'm talking about using every machine connected to the net as some kind of resource, whether it be cpu cycles, storage, indexing, whatever. That's going to be the next really killer app. And it will revolutionize everything.
Where's my lobbyist? Right here.