Which is why it SUCKS to "negotiate" on a corporate level with some business people that are from other lands - such as for a salary. Treat me with respect and offer me a salary that is in line with industry, and don't treat me like a street vendor in Delhi / Cairo. I don't want to have to haggle over every little thing. I want to be able to pay a fair price for goods and services at the outset.
Interesting. The reason I don't care for a company is due to how competent and effective they are handling support / customer service. Both Gateway and Dell fail at the basics. HP on the other hand has excellent support - especially for business models. Never buy home models from ANYONE, and always buy as a business and never a consumer.
I couldn't get a quality product out of Gateway at all on top of their poor service, and dell, well, "Thank you for calling quickie mart, I mean Dell. My name is Ranji - oops, I mean Frank."
FYI, you can usually get third party warranties that offer the same protections and cost a fraction of the price... It's just "insurance". The in-store versions are "insurance + massive profit."
Better yet, buy the computer, trash the HD the first day, return it. Lather, rinse, repeat, until they no longer will let you shop there (not that that would be a bad thing...)
Anyway, this is news? Best Buy and other consumer-hostile retailers treat their customers like crap and take advantage of them? Seriously, did anyone NOT know that? I EXPECT Best Buy to only carry crappy "home user" models and over-priced $50 "Monster USB cables" and not offer any reasonably priced alternatives...
So no, I'm not surprised, shocked, or anything. This is business as usual.
Actually, it was trivial for procmail, and I was DOING that in procmail back in the early 90's.
I had procmail searching for specific phrases, and formail-ing back text files based on those phrases. If a message didn't match anything, it sent it on to me. It's what procmail was DESIGNED to do, and it's what people were using it for.
Ah - BITNET. They days of punchcards, EVERYTHING IN UPPERCASE, 80 character line limit, and 3270 terminals (aka "Periscopes".) Bitnet sucked, but it worked - most of the time.
I much preferred the Unix lab, Usenet, etc. Dealing with Bang paths and all the other uucp idiosyncrasies which were better than anything on the mainframes.
But yes, there is SOOOO much prior art from the early days that would OBVIOUSLY cover anything in this patent.
You are being ridiculous. OF COURSE you don't host 200 production sites on a T1. I NEVER EVER claimed you should. That would be fucking stupid. You can EASILY host ONE like the FA guy is dealing with however, with dev versions of client sites. Been there, done that, works just fine. I was comparing the performance of a single web site on a typical (overloaded / underpowered) vserver with that of the same site on a dedicated T1 / dedicated server.
Furthermore, if you READ the FA, the guy CAN NOT GET a regular broadband connection. Suggesting that it's better when it's not available is insane.
Suggesting that someone get "a bundle of pots lines" instead of a T1/PRI REALLY shows a lack of understanding of telecom in general. If you came to my company and suggested that as a vendor, you would be immediately placed on the "clueless vendor - do not use" list. A T1/PRI is "highly desirable" around 8 lines, and cost effective at 12. If you order 12 pots lines, the phone company will probably deliver a T1 ANYWAY, with a DLC breakout to POTS. Hell, if I could get digital service for TWO lines cost effectively, I would, but the monopoly telcos in the US have made it nearly impossible to get a BRI now... A T1/PRI gives you much more capability than 24/23 pots lines - DID's, signaling, etc.
Yes, you can do one or two channels of VoIP on a DSL line, but again, DSL / Cable is NOT guaranteed bandwidth - even "business cable." It's usually oversubscribed, and usually inconsistent. Small glitches that you don't notice with non-voip apps are devastating to voip / video conferencing. This is why I keep my POTS line around even though I normally use VoIP for my home office w/DSL.
On the other hand, his business is web development. He can certainly host his OWN web site, and development sites for clients. Also works DANDY for hosting your own email server. Fast upstream will be very nice for VoIP, video conferencing, uploading files to clients, etc.
I also think you are seriously over-estimating the bandwidth needs of the average web site. He is not hosting Yahoo, or a Debian mirror. Considering how pathetic most vserver / shared hosting is, you can't consistently deliver much more than T1 speeds with those anyway, and the server response time of a server with 50 - 300 vservers / sites on it SUCKS - very inconsistent. So then you are talking more like $500/month for a dedicated colo server, again with fairly limited bandwidth before it gets expensive. Your hosting / colo plans either sell you a fixed X gigs / month, or sustained xMb/sec 95th percentile. Quality bandwidth at a quality colo / carrier neutral facility is not cheap unless you buy Large quantities.
The bigger issues for hosting with his T1 is getting DOSed and lack of redundancy (power, network, etc.) All depends on the uptime you need... You could certainly fail-over to some vserver account using a low TTL on your DNS...
Some of us have tried it and found that it SUCKS. Latency is 600ms AT BEST. In practice, it's worse. It's also slow, and inconsistent. It a connection of last resort. Since the guy's BUSINESS is the Internet, it's a non-option. $450/month for a T1 is a VERY reasonable and realistic price to pay for something your business depends on. As I said in another comment, that $450/month enables him to make $10K+/month (if he is competent.) Without it, he makes $0. He also gets to write off 100% of the cost, so in reality it doesn't cost quite that much. Like power, heating / cooling, space, advertising, equipment and software, it's a cost of doing business.
I don't mind a monopoly for the physical infrastructure. It makes sense - it's a "natural monopoly."
I mind the monopoly of the SERVICE over that infrastructure. Break up the ILECs and forbid them from providing services over the wires, and require that access to the wires be totally open and non-discriminatory so we have REAL competition. Use the existing surcharges to actually pay for upgrading to fiber and deploying services to a larger percentage of the market with the goal of the same coverage level we have for electricity. The money is there - it is currently mismanaged and wasted.
I think the issue is that you are taking the term "luxury" too literally. The only things you NEED to live is food, water, and some sort of shelter.
Modern life / business / education / etc however has added many other things to the list of "basic needs".
Can you get by without transportation, electricity or phone? Sure. Can you participate in modern society without those items? Not effectively.
It's perfectly reasonable to come up with strong arguments that say that broadband Internet access will soon become a "basic need" in order for our society to effectively compete in the global market. In fact, our government (despite total incompetence) has identified this need as real.
I agree, but also want to point out some other facts here...
Now he has a T1 so he can get plenty of static IP's without massive surcharges, he has upstream bandwidth that is better than most people can get outside of FIOS, He won't run into the "we will cut you off for exceeding our unpublished and secret cap" problem, and he has an SLA on the circuit. He uses the internet for his business, and the internet IS his business. A T1 is quite reasonable. Unless he is underpricing himself, he is probably making at LEAST $10K / month off that $500 T1.
In my state, localities do NOT keep revenue, it goes to the state which in turn sends it to the local county to reduce the town's share of the county budget.
The end result is that the ONLY way you are getting a ticket is if you are OBVIOUSLY drunk, or doing something really stupid right in front of a cop (such as smoking your tires, or going WAY over the limit by 25+ mph...) Red light running? Go right ahead - police chief is on record (quoted in the local paper) that he is NOT going to write tickets for red-light running. We have the local 5 second rule... After the light turns green, you have to wait 5 seconds for people to finish running the red.
Now state patrol is another thing, but again they have repeatedly told the press that they don't bother pulling anyone over for less than 15mph over. End result is that the average speed on the highway is near 80. They do however crack down more within 10 miles of the border to nail out of state-ers.
Frankly, I'd rather have more enforcement. My wife (with kid in the back) was nearly t-boned by a red-light runner and she was the THIRD car through the intersection! Defensive driving is a must because it's total anarchy out there...
FYI, you probably don't need to send any funds. They lawyers taking the case probably think they have a good chance of winning a sizable settlement. They are most likely working in exchange for a cut of the take.
Why do you think I am angry? Because I don't want to pay for a feel-good do-nothing position? Not wanting to waste my tax dollars makes me angry? Hmm. Fiscally responsibility = anger in your mind. What a sad place it must be.
We provide free school lunches for kids whose families can't afford it. That's not education. Do you feel robbed by that practice too?
Hell, why stop there. Let's get the kids all cell phones, Nike "air jordan" shoes, buy their parent's cars, all their school supplies, and oh hell, let's just buy everyone a house.
But to answer your question, food is a basic of life, and is recognized as such and subsidized by the federal government. Staff for mental health in school is not, which means that it usually falls on property taxes which is a much more direct and larger impact. Food: Basic need for life. Mental health care: Not a basic need for life.
So yeah, I feel that you need to provide for your own kids care - physically and mentally. If you can't afford to take care of your kids you SHOULD NOT BE HAVING KIDS. You are NOT entitled to sponge off me.
So why don't you have any concern for your fellow taxpayers? Don't they deserve to retain their hard earned dollars? Don't they deserve to be able to save money for retirement or buy their own house?
It's one thing to donate to charitable causes, humanitarian efforts, etc. It's another to have money taken out of your pocket to be used for those efforts irregardless of whether you can afford it, or believe in the program.
If you want a nice socialist / communist / redistribution of wealth society, I suggest moving to Cuba or China.
Psych care is OUTSIDE the responsibility of the schools. Their job is to EDUCATE. Why should the taxpayers pay for making your child feel better about home issues? Isn't that YOUR responsibility as a parent? I know this sounds heartless, but a guidance counselor is for CAREER GUIDANCE. If you need a psychiatrist for your kids, go see one. On your OWN dime, not mine, and not my neighbors. Why do you feel you are entitled to free psych care?
The sad part is that many vo-tech schools have been converted into community colleges. Costs have more than doubled, and fewer people are able to attend.
Where does that leave the trades? The trades that we NEED as a country?
Our school systems have guidance counselors in the K-6 schools! K through 6 people... What the fuck does a 6 year old need a guidance counselor for???? My K-5 school had a secretary and a pricipal as the ONLY admin staff. Now the same sized school has 6 administrators and the quality of education is no better.
Anyway, the cost of all those excess people works out to about $1.5M / year for our town.
High schools still do have basic career paths... You have a choice - AP and science courses that geared towards a white collar career, and shop / auto / etc. that geared you towards blue. One will get you prepared for college / business / etc. and the other won't. We need both types of people however. We need people who will physically build our homes, businesses, highways, etc. The infrastructure of our country. The bottom line is that there are many people who would rather sweat in 100 degree heat building a brick wall, pouring concrete, etc. than be a cubicle dweller.
But back to the FA. Forcing kids to choose a major? Stupid. It should be an option that guides you into the most appropriate courses to get you where you want to go. Kids need high school to learn about careers and THEN make a decision. What does an eighth grader know about what a physician really does? Or a chemist? Or a physicist? Hell, do they have majors for "fireman?" What about the kids who just want to be a carpenter like their dad, and HIS dad, take over the company business?
Most "educator's" are totally disconnected from reality. They surrounded themselves in school their entire lives, generally in a public servant type role. They think they know what's best for kids but really they have just overdosed on talks and reports from overpaid sociologists that pull theories out of their asses. This is why I refuse to send my kids to public school.
When you hover over your example link, it shows where you are really going.
When you use Evil JavaScript(tm) you can REALLY fuck with the user, who will have NO idea where the link goes, which is why tools like NoScript are so important. Don't surf naked - use NoScript. Don't get me wrong, javascript can be useful, but so many sites use it gratuitously. They use it for things like roll-over highlighting, when CSS does it cleaner with less code. Most sites I visit seem to use javascript now. Less than half actually need it as NoScript has proven.
Quite different. Once you introduce automated tracking systems and long-term storage of that info, it's a whole new ballgame. Just having a drivers license doesn't mean that the police always know where you are, and where you have been for the past 10 years. Stick an RFID chip in there and put a scanner on every street corner and it changes everything.
That said, there is a difference between boundary data collection for toll collection and interior tracking and long term storage of data. There is no need to keep data longer than a year. There also needs to be strict privacy safeguards to prevent abuse of the data. This system is a toll, nothing more.
I'd call it a challenge. People I know who have lived there their entire lives don't even keep a car there anymore. They keep it garaged in Brooklyn or some other place outside of Manhattan. I travel there fairly often, and spent a week there about a month ago... I see no reason to EVER drive in Manhattan with the plethora of taxi's, and public transportation. Even in the pouring rain it was fairly easy to get a cab (unlike in Wash DC, where it can take an hour.)
Between the taxi's, buses, and trucks, who seem to be doing an elaborate dance around each other, you have to be nuts to drive.
Frankly, I sure wish other major cities in the US had the ability to get around without having to drive yourself everywhere like Manhattan does. Compare the SF Bay area to NYC for example, particularly the south bay. It's pathetic.
Slashdot Mirror
Which is why it SUCKS to "negotiate" on a corporate level with some business people that are from other lands - such as for a salary. Treat me with respect and offer me a salary that is in line with industry, and don't treat me like a street vendor in Delhi / Cairo. I don't want to have to haggle over every little thing. I want to be able to pay a fair price for goods and services at the outset.
Interesting. The reason I don't care for a company is due to how competent and effective they are handling support / customer service. Both Gateway and Dell fail at the basics. HP on the other hand has excellent support - especially for business models. Never buy home models from ANYONE, and always buy as a business and never a consumer.
I couldn't get a quality product out of Gateway at all on top of their poor service, and dell, well, "Thank you for calling quickie mart, I mean Dell. My name is Ranji - oops, I mean Frank."
FYI, you can usually get third party warranties that offer the same protections and cost a fraction of the price... It's just "insurance". The in-store versions are "insurance + massive profit."
Better yet, buy the computer, trash the HD the first day, return it. Lather, rinse, repeat, until they no longer will let you shop there (not that that would be a bad thing...)
Anyway, this is news? Best Buy and other consumer-hostile retailers treat their customers like crap and take advantage of them? Seriously, did anyone NOT know that? I EXPECT Best Buy to only carry crappy "home user" models and over-priced $50 "Monster USB cables" and not offer any reasonably priced alternatives...
So no, I'm not surprised, shocked, or anything. This is business as usual.
Actually, it was trivial for procmail, and I was DOING that in procmail back in the early 90's.
I had procmail searching for specific phrases, and formail-ing back text files based on those phrases. If a message didn't match anything, it sent it on to me. It's what procmail was DESIGNED to do, and it's what people were using it for.
Ah - BITNET. They days of punchcards, EVERYTHING IN UPPERCASE, 80 character line limit, and 3270 terminals (aka "Periscopes".) Bitnet sucked, but it worked - most of the time.
I much preferred the Unix lab, Usenet, etc. Dealing with Bang paths and all the other uucp idiosyncrasies which were better than anything on the mainframes.
But yes, there is SOOOO much prior art from the early days that would OBVIOUSLY cover anything in this patent.
You are being ridiculous. OF COURSE you don't host 200 production sites on a T1. I NEVER EVER claimed you should. That would be fucking stupid. You can EASILY host ONE like the FA guy is dealing with however, with dev versions of client sites. Been there, done that, works just fine. I was comparing the performance of a single web site on a typical (overloaded / underpowered) vserver with that of the same site on a dedicated T1 / dedicated server.
Furthermore, if you READ the FA, the guy CAN NOT GET a regular broadband connection. Suggesting that it's better when it's not available is insane.
Suggesting that someone get "a bundle of pots lines" instead of a T1/PRI REALLY shows a lack of understanding of telecom in general. If you came to my company and suggested that as a vendor, you would be immediately placed on the "clueless vendor - do not use" list. A T1/PRI is "highly desirable" around 8 lines, and cost effective at 12. If you order 12 pots lines, the phone company will probably deliver a T1 ANYWAY, with a DLC breakout to POTS. Hell, if I could get digital service for TWO lines cost effectively, I would, but the monopoly telcos in the US have made it nearly impossible to get a BRI now... A T1/PRI gives you much more capability than 24/23 pots lines - DID's, signaling, etc.
Yes, you can do one or two channels of VoIP on a DSL line, but again, DSL / Cable is NOT guaranteed bandwidth - even "business cable." It's usually oversubscribed, and usually inconsistent. Small glitches that you don't notice with non-voip apps are devastating to voip / video conferencing. This is why I keep my POTS line around even though I normally use VoIP for my home office w/DSL.
On the other hand, his business is web development. He can certainly host his OWN web site, and development sites for clients. Also works DANDY for hosting your own email server. Fast upstream will be very nice for VoIP, video conferencing, uploading files to clients, etc.
I also think you are seriously over-estimating the bandwidth needs of the average web site. He is not hosting Yahoo, or a Debian mirror. Considering how pathetic most vserver / shared hosting is, you can't consistently deliver much more than T1 speeds with those anyway, and the server response time of a server with 50 - 300 vservers / sites on it SUCKS - very inconsistent. So then you are talking more like $500/month for a dedicated colo server, again with fairly limited bandwidth before it gets expensive. Your hosting / colo plans either sell you a fixed X gigs / month, or sustained xMb/sec 95th percentile. Quality bandwidth at a quality colo / carrier neutral facility is not cheap unless you buy Large quantities.
The bigger issues for hosting with his T1 is getting DOSed and lack of redundancy (power, network, etc.) All depends on the uptime you need... You could certainly fail-over to some vserver account using a low TTL on your DNS...
Some of us have tried it and found that it SUCKS. Latency is 600ms AT BEST. In practice, it's worse. It's also slow, and inconsistent. It a connection of last resort. Since the guy's BUSINESS is the Internet, it's a non-option. $450/month for a T1 is a VERY reasonable and realistic price to pay for something your business depends on. As I said in another comment, that $450/month enables him to make $10K+/month (if he is competent.) Without it, he makes $0. He also gets to write off 100% of the cost, so in reality it doesn't cost quite that much. Like power, heating / cooling, space, advertising, equipment and software, it's a cost of doing business.
I don't mind a monopoly for the physical infrastructure. It makes sense - it's a "natural monopoly."
I mind the monopoly of the SERVICE over that infrastructure. Break up the ILECs and forbid them from providing services over the wires, and require that access to the wires be totally open and non-discriminatory so we have REAL competition. Use the existing surcharges to actually pay for upgrading to fiber and deploying services to a larger percentage of the market with the goal of the same coverage level we have for electricity. The money is there - it is currently mismanaged and wasted.
I think the issue is that you are taking the term "luxury" too literally. The only things you NEED to live is food, water, and some sort of shelter.
Modern life / business / education / etc however has added many other things to the list of "basic needs".
Can you get by without transportation, electricity or phone? Sure. Can you participate in modern society without those items? Not effectively.
It's perfectly reasonable to come up with strong arguments that say that broadband Internet access will soon become a "basic need" in order for our society to effectively compete in the global market. In fact, our government (despite total incompetence) has identified this need as real.
Note to mods, that is 100% on topic, and 100% correct.
You need line of sight - no hills or trees blocking your view of the satellite. In other words, it isn't "always" viable.
Also, latency SUCKS.
I agree, but also want to point out some other facts here...
Now he has a T1 so he can get plenty of static IP's without massive surcharges, he has upstream bandwidth that is better than most people can get outside of FIOS, He won't run into the "we will cut you off for exceeding our unpublished and secret cap" problem, and he has an SLA on the circuit. He uses the internet for his business, and the internet IS his business. A T1 is quite reasonable. Unless he is underpricing himself, he is probably making at LEAST $10K / month off that $500 T1.
Just to keep things in perspective...
In my state, localities do NOT keep revenue, it goes to the state which in turn sends it to the local county to reduce the town's share of the county budget.
The end result is that the ONLY way you are getting a ticket is if you are OBVIOUSLY drunk, or doing something really stupid right in front of a cop (such as smoking your tires, or going WAY over the limit by 25+ mph...) Red light running? Go right ahead - police chief is on record (quoted in the local paper) that he is NOT going to write tickets for red-light running. We have the local 5 second rule... After the light turns green, you have to wait 5 seconds for people to finish running the red.
Now state patrol is another thing, but again they have repeatedly told the press that they don't bother pulling anyone over for less than 15mph over. End result is that the average speed on the highway is near 80. They do however crack down more within 10 miles of the border to nail out of state-ers.
Frankly, I'd rather have more enforcement. My wife (with kid in the back) was nearly t-boned by a red-light runner and she was the THIRD car through the intersection! Defensive driving is a must because it's total anarchy out there...
FYI, you probably don't need to send any funds. They lawyers taking the case probably think they have a good chance of winning a sizable settlement. They are most likely working in exchange for a cut of the take.
Why do you think I am angry? Because I don't want to pay for a feel-good do-nothing position? Not wanting to waste my tax dollars makes me angry? Hmm. Fiscally responsibility = anger in your mind. What a sad place it must be.
We provide free school lunches for kids whose families can't afford it. That's not education. Do you feel robbed by that practice too?
Hell, why stop there. Let's get the kids all cell phones, Nike "air jordan" shoes, buy their parent's cars, all their school supplies, and oh hell, let's just buy everyone a house.
But to answer your question, food is a basic of life, and is recognized as such and subsidized by the federal government. Staff for mental health in school is not, which means that it usually falls on property taxes which is a much more direct and larger impact. Food: Basic need for life. Mental health care: Not a basic need for life.
So yeah, I feel that you need to provide for your own kids care - physically and mentally. If you can't afford to take care of your kids you SHOULD NOT BE HAVING KIDS. You are NOT entitled to sponge off me.
So why don't you have any concern for your fellow taxpayers? Don't they deserve to retain their hard earned dollars? Don't they deserve to be able to save money for retirement or buy their own house?
It's one thing to donate to charitable causes, humanitarian efforts, etc. It's another to have money taken out of your pocket to be used for those efforts irregardless of whether you can afford it, or believe in the program.
If you want a nice socialist / communist / redistribution of wealth society, I suggest moving to Cuba or China.
Psych care is OUTSIDE the responsibility of the schools. Their job is to EDUCATE. Why should the taxpayers pay for making your child feel better about home issues? Isn't that YOUR responsibility as a parent? I know this sounds heartless, but a guidance counselor is for CAREER GUIDANCE. If you need a psychiatrist for your kids, go see one. On your OWN dime, not mine, and not my neighbors. Why do you feel you are entitled to free psych care?
The sad part is that many vo-tech schools have been converted into community colleges. Costs have more than doubled, and fewer people are able to attend.
Where does that leave the trades? The trades that we NEED as a country?
Our school systems have guidance counselors in the K-6 schools! K through 6 people... What the fuck does a 6 year old need a guidance counselor for???? My K-5 school had a secretary and a pricipal as the ONLY admin staff. Now the same sized school has 6 administrators and the quality of education is no better.
Anyway, the cost of all those excess people works out to about $1.5M / year for our town.
High schools still do have basic career paths... You have a choice - AP and science courses that geared towards a white collar career, and shop / auto / etc. that geared you towards blue. One will get you prepared for college / business / etc. and the other won't. We need both types of people however. We need people who will physically build our homes, businesses, highways, etc. The infrastructure of our country. The bottom line is that there are many people who would rather sweat in 100 degree heat building a brick wall, pouring concrete, etc. than be a cubicle dweller.
But back to the FA. Forcing kids to choose a major? Stupid. It should be an option that guides you into the most appropriate courses to get you where you want to go. Kids need high school to learn about careers and THEN make a decision. What does an eighth grader know about what a physician really does? Or a chemist? Or a physicist? Hell, do they have majors for "fireman?" What about the kids who just want to be a carpenter like their dad, and HIS dad, take over the company business?
Most "educator's" are totally disconnected from reality. They surrounded themselves in school their entire lives, generally in a public servant type role. They think they know what's best for kids but really they have just overdosed on talks and reports from overpaid sociologists that pull theories out of their asses. This is why I refuse to send my kids to public school.
When you hover over your example link, it shows where you are really going.
When you use Evil JavaScript(tm) you can REALLY fuck with the user, who will have NO idea where the link goes, which is why tools like NoScript are so important. Don't surf naked - use NoScript. Don't get me wrong, javascript can be useful, but so many sites use it gratuitously. They use it for things like roll-over highlighting, when CSS does it cleaner with less code. Most sites I visit seem to use javascript now. Less than half actually need it as NoScript has proven.
Quite different. Once you introduce automated tracking systems and long-term storage of that info, it's a whole new ballgame. Just having a drivers license doesn't mean that the police always know where you are, and where you have been for the past 10 years. Stick an RFID chip in there and put a scanner on every street corner and it changes everything.
That said, there is a difference between boundary data collection for toll collection and interior tracking and long term storage of data. There is no need to keep data longer than a year. There also needs to be strict privacy safeguards to prevent abuse of the data. This system is a toll, nothing more.
I'd call it a challenge. People I know who have lived there their entire lives don't even keep a car there anymore. They keep it garaged in Brooklyn or some other place outside of Manhattan. I travel there fairly often, and spent a week there about a month ago... I see no reason to EVER drive in Manhattan with the plethora of taxi's, and public transportation. Even in the pouring rain it was fairly easy to get a cab (unlike in Wash DC, where it can take an hour.)
Between the taxi's, buses, and trucks, who seem to be doing an elaborate dance around each other, you have to be nuts to drive.
Frankly, I sure wish other major cities in the US had the ability to get around without having to drive yourself everywhere like Manhattan does. Compare the SF Bay area to NYC for example, particularly the south bay. It's pathetic.
Maybe the people delivering your goods and services.