. ..without emulating Windows. Sure you can mike it tighter, smaller and more efficient, but there are certainly limits to that.
I could "emulate" the Empire State Building, that is to say build another building on the same base that does everything the ESB does and has all the usable square footage, in less than 103 floors, but it sure as hell wouldn't turn out to be a bungalow.
Fortunately this is a bit of a nonproblem as under Linux you can choose your enviroment, ranging anywhere from the console to Ratpoison to Gnome, as the submiter, at least in part, points out. Isn't that the whole point of the Unixey structure?
True, I can't even get the kernel to load in the memeory space of my old 486 laptop anymore, but older kernels are still avialable (and even maintained) and one can still make a single single floppy Linux OS that can load itself and enough tools to actually do work with entirely into the memory of such a machine.
Just as bungalows are still available for those of us that don't want to support the overhead of a name brand skyscraper.
Brought it home on Monday and my heart stood still. Dadooron ron ron, Dadooron ron. Loaded up this OS from a guy named Bill. Dadooron ron ron, Dadooron ron. Whoa, my heart stood still. Yeah, an OS from Bill. And then I booted up my, Dadooron ron ron, Dadooron ron.
They knew what they were doin' when they caught my eye. Dadooron ron ron, Dadooron ron. A really nifty box and lots of pie in the sky. Dadooron ron ron, Dadooron ron Yeah, they caught my eye, With all that pie in the sky. And when I booted up my, Dadooron ron ron, Dadooron ron.
But wait! Don't order yet. Call before midnight tonight and get a Moron XML4000 Ultra Plus with bluing for extra whiteness at no extra cost!
If the license says that you cannot file suit, the first thing you must do file suit is sue for the right to file suit.
On oxymoron, no?
You can file a suit anywhere against anyone and for damned near any reason.
That brings the matter before a judge and only the judge can decide what is is not proper in his court. If a software company says the the terms of license specify that you must file Pokono he will either accept that argument or not. If he excepts it you have to go to Pokono, if he does not than the suit proceeds no matter what it says in the EULA.
Just because it says something in a EULA doesn't mean it's actually binding in a court of law, or even out of one for that matter.
A judge with a case before him is the only arbiter of what is and is not binding.
It's not like the court clerk is going to look at you and say, "I'm sorry sir, but I can't except this filing because of the EULA."
Prior to Windows 2000 I used Linux extensively, mainly because it was very stable indeed, and rather exciting. Now it's just not worth it, Windows does everything Linux can do and more.
I must say that "Windows has finally caught up to Linux" is certainly an unusual argument.
And just because there are tens, if not hundreds, of thousands of qualified people who know they could easily do it themselves if called upon has nothing whatever to do with the issue.
Or. ..something.
I can't wait until Ken responds to this, I can't wait for more Tanenbaum re-rebutals.
We can tell Ken isn't the sharpest knife in the drawer, he doesn't know when to just shut the hell up.
No it isn't. Groklaw dealt with this a while ago, and I'm going mostly from memory here. A contract is specifically dealt with under contract law. A licence is not. Clicking "I accept" means that you have accepted the permission they grant to you. If you breach the licence, then there is nothing they can do to you unless you also breach other laws in doing so.
I demure. I need more coffee or something.
Kindly stick your foot up my ass and substitue "license" where I wrote "contract" in my OP.
They are already tax exempt if New Mexico approved their incorporation.
Of course. That's a tautology. But it only applies to New Mexico taxes.
I said they are already tax exempt. Let me clarify by saying that they are already tax exempt FEDERALLY as well.
You do not have to file for federeal tax exempt status unless you expect your income to be more than $5000 annually.
That's simply an extension of the general tax code. No entity has to file anything with the Feds if their gross income is under $5000. (And if Gentoo has already grossed more than $5000 this fiscal year this is a strawman argument in that regard anyway).
That doesn't mean that an unemployed wino is tax exempt. It means he didn't earn enough in a particular year to have to pay taxes. If he lives in New Mexico he certainly still has to pay sales taxes on any of his taxable purchases. A tax exempt entity does not.
Now I know that Gentoo will make more than $5000 annually, but I am just reminding everybody that they can start accepting tax exempt contributions right away, without waiting for federal exemption to be approved.
And if you give said wino a donation you cannot deduct it from your taxes. If he represents a New Mexico tax exempt entity you can deduct it from your New Mexico state taxes, but not your federal. If the entity he represents becomes recognized federally as tax exempt in that fiscal year you may deduct such donations from your federal taxes.
I am not a member of the justice system, however we did just create our own nonprofit in NJ.
I'm not a member of the justice system either, but I've been a founding board member of a NY State nonprofit corporation that now and then took in over $5000 in remuneration (that's not counting tax deductable contributions) in a week or so, and hundreds of thousands of dollars a year in contributions. We did have a state judge on the board as well though, which certainly didn't hurt. There was no online filing at the time but he could just walk the forms around on his lunch break.
We were recognized (at time I served) as a not for profit corporation in the state of NY, but not by the United States government. Contributions were state tax deductable, but not federally. State tax status has nothing to do with federal tax status. They are seperate entities. Many states (perhaps all, I'm not familiar with them all) recognize as tax exempt certain corporate entities which the federal government will not. There is no automatic transferance of status from the state to the federal level.
Hey.. Don't take my word for it. Read all about the law that governs nonprofit incorporation
This is a bit of a niggle I supose, but that law doesn't cover incorporation, but only the tax exempt status of existing corporations. United States corporations are formed by acts of Congress. To read about the laws governing incorporation as a nonprofit you have to consult the laws of the particular state in which the corporation will be formed. To hold tax exempt status in more than one state (so you don't have to pay sales taxes when you go shopping "next door," for instance) you may well have to file in multiple states.
And that law will apply to you ( and Gentoo) when you have filed your IRS Form 1023 and had it approved. Not before. Have you done so?
A license is a contract. If you have to click "I accept" it is overtly recognized as such by the licensor.
As a licence, it cannot require the licencee to give up anything in return.
Nonsense. You are often called upon to give up some consideration for the limited rights the license grants you. Commonly this is in the form of finacial consideration. Your money is yours by right. You must transfer that right to the licensor. Under the GPL consideration is given by an exchange of rights. I'll give you some of mine if you give me some of yours (and the idea that the GPL is somehow different than what propriatary software rights holders do is nonsense. The holders of propriatary rights make exactly such contractual agreements to exchange rights as a matter of course. The GPL simply offers this form of consideration on a broader basis than is usual).
If there is consideration, there is a contract. Even a simple retail exchange is contractual. You agree to give them money, they agree to give you property rights.
There are, however, certain legal limitations on what you can be required to give up, and of such limitations law suits are made.
. ..though i'm not even sure that's possible due to the EULA.
EULAs cannot prevent lawsuits. The EULA becomes part of the evidence of the suit and the suit itself determines to what degree, if any, its terms effect a possible ruling.
In fact, this is precisely how the legality of a EULA is tested. A EULA is a just a contract. Contracts don't prevent lawsuits, they become the object of them.
The blurb was badly written. They are not tax exempt in the United States and the standards for state tax exempt status are usually somewhat different and easier (fill out the forms) than the federal standards.
About six months from now Gentoo may or may not be nonprofit in the United States.
It's really too bad that otherwise great nations do such stupid things and end up killing their greatest minds.
To combine this thread with the one on Atlantis and a sig:
"I drank what? - Socrates
There is really nothing stupider than a nation (and for all of their positive virtues democracies are the stupidest), and as Thoreau noted nations typically hold the idea that their best men are their mortal enemies.
I'll join your toast to Alan, but expand it to include all the men and women who have suffered a similar absurdly tragic fate at the hands of their own.
Ah yes, "may have been" is the stock in trade of the Atlantis finder.
I'm familiar with the vagueries of translation. I do some now and again. Typically though I'm called upon to translate translations. Make them both grammatically and idiomatically correct.
A while ago I was called upon to translate just two words in Italian as seen on a gasoline advertisment.
"Su Misura"
Transliterated that's "on measure." An Italian had already translated it into English as "Made to Measure", which would make perfect sense in English if the product involved were a man's suit, but is idiomatic nonsense when applied to gasoline (which is why it was brought to me in the first place). I translated it as "Custom Blended", which is incorrect in any literal sense, but perfectly correct in meaning.
Of course I had advantage in that, unlike the examples you provide of translating texts of a dead language, I was working with living languages. If I'd needed to I could have sat down with an Italian language scholar and dicussed that matter. It makes a big difference.
And that's just the case with Plato and the story of Atlantis. Plato wasn't trying to translate some ancient Egyptian text in some archaic version of the languge. He claims to have got it from Solon who spoke Egyptian at least converstionally and who got the story directly in coversation with an Egyptian mystic/scholar in Egypt. Plato himself went to Egypt, learned Egyptian and studied there for a goodly time with Egyptians who spoke Greek (where he could also confirm the report of Heredotus that the Egyptians claimed to have circumnavigated Africa by sea before Plato was born).
No, the "may have been a flase translation" thing won't fly.
Especially since the whole story really originated, in Greek, in the mind of Plato. There is no older text.
In terms of the Greek dark ages where things moved so slowly that ever minor changes in clothing fashion might take hundreds of years it's an almost infintesimal span of hisory.
And in a slave owning culture where citizenship was dependant on ancestry, not birth, and a Bardic tradition (which you bring up) in which it was common to memorize the Illiad and Odyssey, it was a fairly easy task to keep track of one's antecedents. One's very life could depend on it.
Do not confuse the way things are today with the way things were then. In the modern era we rely on record keeping. If the records are lost than the history is lost, often within a single person's lifetime. If the records are lost you may loose knowledge, but not citizenship of your nation. I cannot trace my Romanian peasant ancestry. It was erased 60 years ago, within my mother's lifetime. If my mother had been taught her ancestry then I could also be taught. I'm still an American citizen, however, with all the attendant rights. I have not been reduced to the status of alien peasant or a slave, so it doesn't really matter, which is why my mother wasn't taught her ancestry in the first place.
On my father's side, however, I can go back to Hugh Capet. The blood is blue. The line remains traceable for over 1000 years because to certain people that ancestry mattered a good deal.
Atlantis is not surrounded by concentric rings of water. The hilltop citadel of Cleito was surrounded by concentric moats and the citadel lay outside Atlantis proper (that is to say where the populace lived, as the function of the moats was to keep the Atlanteans themselves out, as is the general purpose of palace moats everywhere).
The moats have nothing to do with Atlantis's status as an island.
There is one major difference. Homer was writing about events set in historical time, only 400 years or so before in fact, involving historical people whom many people at the time of writing could clearly and accurately trace their own lineage to, in a land not only accessable but well known and colonized. A story of his own culture's recent history.
Thus the story of Troy was a myth in the sense that the ride of Paul Revere is a myth. False, invented by a poet, but historical.
The story of Atlantis is a story heard from a friend who heard it from a wise man at the edge of the world who said it happened 10,000 years before beyond the edge of the world.
It might be important to note that the sory of Atlantis could and is most likly just that a story.
You think? Gee, I don't know. I'm inclined to believe that prefacing the story of Atlantis with a disertation on the value of constructing false histories for the moral instruction of youth and the less sophisticated of the populace and then employing all the standard literary devices of the time to denote that the story being told was instructional myth is purely coincidental.
Slashdot Mirror
. . .without emulating Windows. Sure you can mike it tighter, smaller and more efficient, but there are certainly limits to that.
I could "emulate" the Empire State Building, that is to say build another building on the same base that does everything the ESB does and has all the usable square footage, in less than 103 floors, but it sure as hell wouldn't turn out to be a bungalow.
Fortunately this is a bit of a nonproblem as under Linux you can choose your enviroment, ranging anywhere from the console to Ratpoison to Gnome, as the submiter, at least in part, points out. Isn't that the whole point of the Unixey structure?
True, I can't even get the kernel to load in the memeory space of my old 486 laptop anymore, but older kernels are still avialable (and even maintained) and one can still make a single single floppy Linux OS that can load itself and enough tools to actually do work with entirely into the memory of such a machine.
Just as bungalows are still available for those of us that don't want to support the overhead of a name brand skyscraper.
KFG
A man was killed doing this in 2000
Any number of men, and women too, died on their way to work this morning. Commuting is dangerous.
My dad died when I was one year old, while simply tending a shop.
Shit happens, so do what, ummmm, rows your boat.
KFG
New from K-Tel! The Dadooron cpu.
Brought it home on Monday and my heart stood still.
Dadooron ron ron, Dadooron ron.
Loaded up this OS from a guy named Bill.
Dadooron ron ron, Dadooron ron.
Whoa, my heart stood still.
Yeah, an OS from Bill.
And then I booted up my,
Dadooron ron ron, Dadooron ron.
They knew what they were doin' when they caught my eye.
Dadooron ron ron, Dadooron ron.
A really nifty box and lots of pie in the sky.
Dadooron ron ron, Dadooron ron
Yeah, they caught my eye,
With all that pie in the sky.
And when I booted up my,
Dadooron ron ron, Dadooron ron.
But wait! Don't order yet. Call before midnight tonight and get a Moron XML4000 Ultra Plus with bluing for extra whiteness at no extra cost!
KFG
If the license says that you cannot file suit, the first thing you must do file suit is sue for the right to file suit.
On oxymoron, no?
You can file a suit anywhere against anyone and for damned near any reason.
That brings the matter before a judge and only the judge can decide what is is not proper in his court. If a software company says the the terms of license specify that you must file Pokono he will either accept that argument or not. If he excepts it you have to go to Pokono, if he does not than the suit proceeds no matter what it says in the EULA.
Just because it says something in a EULA doesn't mean it's actually binding in a court of law, or even out of one for that matter.
A judge with a case before him is the only arbiter of what is and is not binding.
It's not like the court clerk is going to look at you and say, "I'm sorry sir, but I can't except this filing because of the EULA."
KFG
Prior to Windows 2000 I used Linux extensively, mainly because it was very stable indeed, and rather exciting. Now it's just not worth it, Windows does everything Linux can do and more.
I must say that "Windows has finally caught up to Linux" is certainly an unusual argument.
KFG
Control and transparency. Those are the biggies.
That and simply not being involved in the whole commercial hype and the Monkey Dancing that goes with it, but I suppose that's just corallary.
The fact that it's simply a better system overall doesn't hurt either.
KFG
The analysis of Linux v0.1 (commissioned by AdTI itself) found no code taken from Minix.
Eventually all the Minix code went away or was completely rewritten
Q.E.D.
KFG
. . .pony up the dough to create our own illustrious-sounding "institution". . .
It's called "printing up a letterhead." Seriously.
KFG
30-Love -- Tanenbaum.
KFG
He'll be lucky to break even on the publishing costs.
Especially since he intends to distribute most of the copies for free for the purposes of political lobbying.
KFG
And just because there are tens, if not hundreds, of thousands of qualified people who know they could easily do it themselves if called upon has nothing whatever to do with the issue.
.something.
Or. .
I can't wait until Ken responds to this, I can't wait for more Tanenbaum re-rebutals.
We can tell Ken isn't the sharpest knife in the drawer, he doesn't know when to just shut the hell up.
KFG
No it isn't. Groklaw dealt with this a while ago, and I'm going mostly from memory here. A contract is specifically dealt with under contract law. A licence is not. Clicking "I accept" means that you have accepted the permission they grant to you. If you breach the licence, then there is nothing they can do to you unless you also breach other laws in doing so.
I demure. I need more coffee or something.
Kindly stick your foot up my ass and substitue "license" where I wrote "contract" in my OP.
KFG
They are already tax exempt if New Mexico approved their incorporation.
Of course. That's a tautology. But it only applies to New Mexico taxes.
I said they are already tax exempt. Let me clarify by saying that they are already tax exempt FEDERALLY as well.
You do not have to file for federeal tax exempt status unless you expect your income to be more than $5000 annually.
That's simply an extension of the general tax code. No entity has to file anything with the Feds if their gross income is under $5000. (And if Gentoo has already grossed more than $5000 this fiscal year this is a strawman argument in that regard anyway).
That doesn't mean that an unemployed wino is tax exempt. It means he didn't earn enough in a particular year to have to pay taxes. If he lives in New Mexico he certainly still has to pay sales taxes on any of his taxable purchases. A tax exempt entity does not.
Now I know that Gentoo will make more than $5000 annually, but I am just reminding everybody that they can start accepting tax exempt contributions right away, without waiting for federal exemption to be approved.
And if you give said wino a donation you cannot deduct it from your taxes. If he represents a New Mexico tax exempt entity you can deduct it from your New Mexico state taxes, but not your federal. If the entity he represents becomes recognized federally as tax exempt in that fiscal year you may deduct such donations from your federal taxes.
I am not a member of the justice system, however we did just create our own nonprofit in NJ.
I'm not a member of the justice system either, but I've been a founding board member of a NY State nonprofit corporation that now and then took in over $5000 in remuneration (that's not counting tax deductable contributions) in a week or so, and hundreds of thousands of dollars a year in contributions. We did have a state judge on the board as well though, which certainly didn't hurt. There was no online filing at the time but he could just walk the forms around on his lunch break.
We were recognized (at time I served) as a not for profit corporation in the state of NY, but not by the United States government. Contributions were state tax deductable, but not federally. State tax status has nothing to do with federal tax status. They are seperate entities. Many states (perhaps all, I'm not familiar with them all) recognize as tax exempt certain corporate entities which the federal government will not. There is no automatic transferance of status from the state to the federal level.
Hey.. Don't take my word for it. Read all about the law that governs nonprofit incorporation
This is a bit of a niggle I supose, but that law doesn't cover incorporation, but only the tax exempt status of existing corporations. United States corporations are formed by acts of Congress. To read about the laws governing incorporation as a nonprofit you have to consult the laws of the particular state in which the corporation will be formed. To hold tax exempt status in more than one state (so you don't have to pay sales taxes when you go shopping "next door," for instance) you may well have to file in multiple states.
And that law will apply to you ( and Gentoo) when you have filed your IRS Form 1023 and had it approved. Not before. Have you done so?
KFG
A license is a contract. If you have to click "I accept" it is overtly recognized as such by the licensor.
As a licence, it cannot require the licencee to give up anything in return.
Nonsense. You are often called upon to give up some consideration for the limited rights the license grants you. Commonly this is in the form of finacial consideration. Your money is yours by right. You must transfer that right to the licensor. Under the GPL consideration is given by an exchange of rights. I'll give you some of mine if you give me some of yours (and the idea that the GPL is somehow different than what propriatary software rights holders do is nonsense. The holders of propriatary rights make exactly such contractual agreements to exchange rights as a matter of course. The GPL simply offers this form of consideration on a broader basis than is usual).
If there is consideration, there is a contract. Even a simple retail exchange is contractual. You agree to give them money, they agree to give you property rights.
There are, however, certain legal limitations on what you can be required to give up, and of such limitations law suits are made.
Contract definition
KFG
. . .though i'm not even sure that's possible due to the EULA.
EULAs cannot prevent lawsuits. The EULA becomes part of the evidence of the suit and the suit itself determines to what degree, if any, its terms effect a possible ruling.
In fact, this is precisely how the legality of a EULA is tested. A EULA is a just a contract. Contracts don't prevent lawsuits, they become the object of them.
KFG
. . .but you can't beat a mind probe!
And the more you believe that the easier it will be for me to bring my nefarious plans to fruition.
Mwuahahahhahah!
KFG
Hey, this makes them tax exempt.
In New Mexico.
The blurb was badly written. They are not tax exempt in the United States and the standards for state tax exempt status are usually somewhat different and easier (fill out the forms) than the federal standards.
About six months from now Gentoo may or may not be nonprofit in the United States.
KFG
Good Lord man! The average person will pass out after only two minutes of not playing UT and it takes years of training to go as long as five.
Expecting the average Joe to stop for six is simply absurd.
KFG
It's really too bad that otherwise great nations do such stupid things and end up killing their greatest minds.
To combine this thread with the one on Atlantis and a sig:
"I drank what? - Socrates
There is really nothing stupider than a nation (and for all of their positive virtues democracies are the stupidest), and as Thoreau noted nations typically hold the idea that their best men are their mortal enemies.
I'll join your toast to Alan, but expand it to include all the men and women who have suffered a similar absurdly tragic fate at the hands of their own.
KFG
Ah yes, "may have been" is the stock in trade of the Atlantis finder.
I'm familiar with the vagueries of translation. I do some now and again. Typically though I'm called upon to translate translations. Make them both grammatically and idiomatically correct.
A while ago I was called upon to translate just two words in Italian as seen on a gasoline advertisment.
"Su Misura"
Transliterated that's "on measure." An Italian had already translated it into English as "Made to Measure", which would make perfect sense in English if the product involved were a man's suit, but is idiomatic nonsense when applied to gasoline (which is why it was brought to me in the first place). I translated it as "Custom Blended", which is incorrect in any literal sense, but perfectly correct in meaning.
Of course I had advantage in that, unlike the examples you provide of translating texts of a dead language, I was working with living languages. If I'd needed to I could have sat down with an Italian language scholar and dicussed that matter. It makes a big difference.
And that's just the case with Plato and the story of Atlantis. Plato wasn't trying to translate some ancient Egyptian text in some archaic version of the languge. He claims to have got it from Solon who spoke Egyptian at least converstionally and who got the story directly in coversation with an Egyptian mystic/scholar in Egypt. Plato himself went to Egypt, learned Egyptian and studied there for a goodly time with Egyptians who spoke Greek (where he could also confirm the report of Heredotus that the Egyptians claimed to have circumnavigated Africa by sea before Plato was born).
No, the "may have been a flase translation" thing won't fly.
Especially since the whole story really originated, in Greek, in the mind of Plato. There is no older text.
KFG
Do you consider 400 years ago "recent history"?
Yes. Very recent.
In terms of the Greek dark ages where things moved so slowly that ever minor changes in clothing fashion might take hundreds of years it's an almost infintesimal span of hisory.
And in a slave owning culture where citizenship was dependant on ancestry, not birth, and a Bardic tradition (which you bring up) in which it was common to memorize the Illiad and Odyssey, it was a fairly easy task to keep track of one's antecedents. One's very life could depend on it.
Do not confuse the way things are today with the way things were then. In the modern era we rely on record keeping. If the records are lost than the history is lost, often within a single person's lifetime. If the records are lost you may loose knowledge, but not citizenship of your nation. I cannot trace my Romanian peasant ancestry. It was erased 60 years ago, within my mother's lifetime. If my mother had been taught her ancestry then I could also be taught. I'm still an American citizen, however, with all the attendant rights. I have not been reduced to the status of alien peasant or a slave, so it doesn't really matter, which is why my mother wasn't taught her ancestry in the first place.
On my father's side, however, I can go back to Hugh Capet. The blood is blue. The line remains traceable for over 1000 years because to certain people that ancestry mattered a good deal.
KFG
Atlantis is not surrounded by concentric rings of water. The hilltop citadel of Cleito was surrounded by concentric moats and the citadel lay outside Atlantis proper (that is to say where the populace lived, as the function of the moats was to keep the Atlanteans themselves out, as is the general purpose of palace moats everywhere).
The moats have nothing to do with Atlantis's status as an island.
KFG
There is one major difference. Homer was writing about events set in historical time, only 400 years or so before in fact, involving historical people whom many people at the time of writing could clearly and accurately trace their own lineage to, in a land not only accessable but well known and colonized. A story of his own culture's recent history.
."
Thus the story of Troy was a myth in the sense that the ride of Paul Revere is a myth. False, invented by a poet, but historical.
The story of Atlantis is a story heard from a friend who heard it from a wise man at the edge of the world who said it happened 10,000 years before beyond the edge of the world.
In the modern idiom that translates into:
"A long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away. .
KFG
Did you turn yourself around? It doesn't work if you leave out part of the ritual.
KFG
It might be important to note that the sory of Atlantis could and is most likly just that a story.
You think? Gee, I don't know. I'm inclined to believe that prefacing the story of Atlantis with a disertation on the value of constructing false histories for the moral instruction of youth and the less sophisticated of the populace and then employing all the standard literary devices of the time to denote that the story being told was instructional myth is purely coincidental.
KFG