Did anyone notice the timing of the release of these comments from Microsoft ? Right around the time the new Linux kernel is released. Nothing that Microsoft does is a coincidence.
Make no mistake, Microsoft is VERY concerned about Linux. They will do everything in their power to shove serious competitors out of their way of making money, even if it means making (borderline hilarious) degrading remarks about the competition such as the latest.
I must say this though - I find it scary that Microsoft comments about security issues relating to Linux when they have vastly greater problems with their products.
Think people - of course Microsoft is going to want to say that Linux has no future - because it doesn't want them to!
You don't mean Telix - the ANSI terminal emulator, do you? That was probably one my favorite BBS Dialers.
What about Procomm Plus?
BBS'ing was fun. I used to love hosting doors with games like Tradewars or that Risk look alike. Got some great electronic mail management experience out of FidoNet and echomail when I was 14! Those were the good old days. =]
You could say that the SysOps of the BBS days were the equivalent of web site administrators and SysAdmins of today...
This link allows you to track the ISS from your location and I guess if you have the right equipment and weather conditions, you should be able to see it on the dates that it recommends.
There are over one hundred TLDs in the ORSC rootzone. They should be respected and not duplicated. It is not our.biz which is the culprit here, and we have NEVER made any claim to application to ICANN or decieved anyone. Our TLD resolves to the ORSC rootzone, not the USG root.
This may be coming a little late, since this topic has gotten old, but...
While I am all for alternative roots existing as is evident in my many posts on the topic, I do not think that ICANN (or anyone operating root servers to any DNS) has to respect alternates' TLDs. Yes, that would be great for the alternate - it would save a lot of customer frustration, but just because you made it, doesn't mean you can claim ownership to it. Until you have become the standard DNS - grabbing most of the world population on your root servers, your TLDs don't mean anything to anyone in the world other than your customers. Any attempt at a cease and desist would never hold up in court.
That said, I think ICANN did make a mistake in choosing.biz . If not for the fact that it is too informal, but for the fact that it is in large use already.
Damn good response. There is a lot to think about in there....
Thanks Dave.;] For what it's worth, you've put up a great argument as well, although I'm still sticking to my guns.
You're definitely right, DNS is at the center of the Internet practically. It must be dependable. But I've done a lot of research on this, and I really don't think it's going to break by having alternative roots exist and grow in popularity. I'm not going to deny that it would be much better if ICANN would release more TLDs on a regular basis instead, but they won't. Now, if alternative roots could be able to support both root structures at the same time and handle conflicts (ex: the.biz problem in the topic here), then that would make a transition that much easier. This solution is the next generation of alternatives that can do that.
I think something is going to happen real soon. We'll see DNS change in a big way.
One of the reasons (some say that it is _the_ reason) that Linux has come into popularity as opposed to BSD is that it hasn't forked. BSD is split among the FreeBSD, OpenBSD, and NetBSD factions. A guy down the hall from me will argue until he passes out that NetBSD is better than Linux. However, Linux has the user base because it has not forked. The project with the largest user base attracts more users and grows larger still.
I am not in disagreement with anything you said (except your last sentence). I think you misunderstood my meaning of forking there. I am a devoted user of Linux and have been for many years, and what I was trying to convey is that people began to try out Linux even though it wasn't broadly accepted yet. It was risky, new, and undersupported. We forked away from using the retail stuff like Windows NT and etc..
Development forking isn't what I'm talking about here - I'm talking about industry acceptance and trying something new that isn't broadly accepted yet and has the potential. Linux was a perfect example of that and I was just making an analogy to that success.
If people didn't "fork" over to try something different like Linux, where would we be today? Things would be different. Linux helped grow the Internet in a big way I believe.
There are some times when forking is good. This is definitely not one of them.
And why not? I don't see any logic behind those opinions yet. They, to me, seem like old school opinions that hinder the development of the Internet. We need progress.
Here's my next installment in a response to this comment...
Ever since domain space became valuable, there are so many special interests circling it that it's not funny anymore. It's pretty ugly, actually. Consensus building has been pretty impossible because people with dollar signs flashing in their eyes shout louder, and the people who are just plain kooks shout the loudest. That's hurt a lot of the development of DNS in the last few years. The one weapon we've always had against this is caution, and a recognised authority.
Can you explain this for me? How has commercial interest in domain names hurt development of DNS? bind is a recognized defacto standard for running DNS practically. Those developing it (ISC) could do what they like practically and we'll all follow their lead. And if you're talking about the root server structure, sorry - I don't agree there either. Read DNS and BIND set up some root servers of your own, and you'll see what I mean. It's not rocket science to systems administrators.
1. ISPs will start advertising which of the conflicting roots they prefer: "We serve ICANN names!" "We follow AlterNIC!" etc. etc.
While this may be true for the standard alternative it isn't for this one. And besides, we've gone through this anyway at a different level - Operating Systems like Windows. "This application supports Win95 only" You upgrade and move on. Are we supposed to hinder progress just so those who want to live in the past can get what they want?
2. Users won't understand a word of this
Maybe not all, but I think that you are discounting what the average user knows nowadays. Besides, things will evolve to allow users to get where they want regardless of which alternative they choose - again, I point out this solution which allows access to both even when both exist in separate root structures.
3. Users will complain "Why can't I reach mysite.biz!"
Maybe initially with some of the basic "use a different root.db" alternatives, but it'll pass. Newer solutions (like the one mentioned above) will evolve however, and not pose such a problem. It isn't going to be as big a deal as you are making out of it.
4. Lawsuit free-for-all over misleading advertisements and broken SLAs
You only register a domain name for a specified period of time - if you are using the basic alternative - just don't renew your registration next time around. Otherwise use the newer DNS solutions that can work with both as mentioned earlier. On top of that, when you register one of these domains, you know what you're getting into.
5. Lawsuit free-for-all over conflicting trademarks
Sorry, that statement is just plain wrong.
6. AOL, Microsoft and some others will remove DNS access from the user (URL bars, email addresses, etc) and replace it with a directory system that they manage (keyword searches, address books). One of these will gain a monopoly. No one but slashdot readers will care.
That'll never happen either. That would mean that they have to get out of the email game which AOL and Microsoft (Outlook) are so big in. Email depends on DNS. However, if I'm wrong, a new email standard can evolve from this that is more robust. Evolution is good.
Don't be fooled into thinking that everyone pushing for alternate DNS has the good of the internet at heart. Some of them mean well, I'm sure. Some of them are sound guys. I'm equally sure that some of them are out to grab a piece of the gold mine that is DNS, and are willing to damage it in the process. Believe it or not, ICANN is the one thing standing between us and a corporate takeover of the internet.
You struck a nerve there. Do you REALLY think that the Internet and DNS are not going to evolve over time? I respect your opinion, don't get me wrong, but I really disagree here. As I've said before, the existence of alternatives alone just proves that there is a problem with the way DNS is being managed. And about ICANN standing between us and a corporate takeover - I'm really having trouble holding myself together on that one. A corporate takeover? Of what, DNS?!? What do you mean anyway? ICANN is a corporation right now anyway. Granted, it's non-profit, but I'm not convinced that profit isn't their practice - at $50,000 a pop for just a shot at getting the right to be a registry for a TLD, I think that is a blatant rip off.
To drag this back on topic? We're seeing the beginning of this now. Everyone's been bitching at ICANN to hurry up and introduce some new TLDs already (watch for buzzwords such as "artificial scarcity" in other slashdot posts near you!) What happened? Someone tried to preempt them and lured a some-thousand userbase to give themselves some credence. What do ICANN do here? Reject potentially better-prepared proposals for favour of this one? I don't think that's fair.
Didn't understand this comment that much. Can you explain a little further? (Seriously).
Think for yourselves. Don't be afraid not to fork.
I don't know why anyone has challenged your points here Dave, because I think that you are proposing that we stagnate evolution in your opinion. I'll address some of your points and then make more.
Internet "precendent" says that we've tried to work out problems through consensus building. Seriously! We get together in groups like RIPE and NANOG, present our ideas, and try to build consensus. We can fork, yeah, but we fork as little as possible, because when we fork, we split the user base and we are all weaker because of it.
The Internet is a completely different animal than anything that has existed before. I'm not sure - you might want to ask Vinton about this - but I don't think that it was supposed to get this big. It wasn't supposed to catch on like a virus. We've got to make changes for it at its speed.
DNS came out some time ago to address the naming issues because there started to be more IP's than one could remember. Well, in the recent year or two, it has become blatantly obvious that the gTLDs (.com,.net,.org, etc.) aren't enough, so we're taking more in other ways - (for example.tv - supposed to be a ccTLD for Tuvalu but purchased for use as "television").
The point is, there's something wrong here, and there has to be something done. That control isn't a good thing, it stagnates the growth of the Internet. You nor any other technical or nontechnical person can convince me that there is a good reason why we can't have more TLDs.This is the reason why we have Alternate root servers out there - because there aren't enough TLDs. And the new ones that ICANN chose? They aren't going to help. What serious business wants to have.biz? It sounds too informal..coop ?.aero? I'm sorry - but this just shows how little ICANN is really doing for us.
So, as for you stating about forking and it making us weak - well, I'm going to say one word - Linux. I'm sure you've heard of it. It's affected the computing industry in a BIG way. Nuff' said.
This is getting long so I'll address more points in my next response to this.
ICANN had a contract to run the top-level servers that everyone was using.
This is a common misconception. The root servers of the Internet aren't run by ICANN. They are run by supporting organizations around the world. This link shows where they are and who runs them. I believe the information is still accurate.
Some quick history about root servers and ICANN. The main root server - the "A root" or a.root-servers.net, is under the control of Network Solutions (now a part of Verisign). This server is where new TLDs are added. If you check your root.db or named.ca - the A root server is listed first. Other root servers get their info from that one.
So, ICANN, formed in October of 1998, was given the responsibility of managing DNS TLDs after the government decided that it should be in the hands of a private organization. Here is the scope of ICANN's control (in my words):
They manage the creation of new TLDs
They can say who is the registry to handle a TLD
They settle disputes over domain names
That's it. They can't touch alternate root structures.
All that needs to be done is for people to make a mass migration over to an alternate DNS structure. If you get enough people to be interested, ICANN will lose its clout, and pretty much fizzle away.
As I mentioned earlier, alternate DNS structures are a start, but you need more than an alternate root structure - you need compatibility with the legacy DNS structure as well - email is a perfect example. How will email servers talk to each other if one person is using an alternate DNS structure and another isn't? This place has something different that just might pull that transition off though.
Laws without enforcement or the will of enforcement are worse than no laws at all. If ICANN is the United Nations, then we can do what we have always done: ignore them.
This could turn into a debate on governments, but I think that the UN has no real power to enforce anything it wants to do. It depends on the representatives to have their governments carry out the actions. If you could depend on the UN itself to carry out actions, that's a different story. Give it some sort of strong military presence, and maybe things could be enforced. Don't know if that'll happen though.
I do believe that if the UN had more strength, they could be the ones to enforce any "laws" on the Internet and more specifically to our topic, the DNS.
We should revert to accessing resources just by using IP addresses, and forget about ICANN and the greedy domain registrars.
Excuse my bluntness, but that doesn't make any sense. How do you expect the average nontechnical person to remember IP addresses. Be honest - if you were walking on the street and saw a sign for Macy's and wanted to shop online, what would be easier for you to remember at the spur of the moment? www.macys.com, macys.com, macys.shopping, or 63.73.131.68 ? How about an email address? Would you want to send email to me at cmilkosky@opendnstech.com or my IP address? Sorry, but as a human, I find the names easier to remember and I'm sure I'm not the only one.
You can't just abandon DNS anymore. There has to be an orderly transition away from it that makes sense. Something new may form in the next few years, but we aren't going to be abandoning DNS any time soon because of the apps that depend on it. Everything using the Internet is built around the use of DNS.
I didn't mean a government, I meant a framework to guide the actions of ICANN. I'm sure they have something, but it obviously wasn't thought out well enough or we wouldn't be having all these problems.
Oh, I agree, I'm just saying that I don't think the Constitution idea could happen in the world we live in today because of the governments that exist. If we had one world government (probably also be a pipe dream) or something like that with enough strength to enforce global laws, then this may happen, but until then, I don't see a Constitution working.
So, for people to get access to these rogue sites, I need to add all these other entries to my root.db and other files. And merge the entries from the various splinter groups, as I can't just dowload one groups root.db and run with it. And what is going to happen when two groups both have the same TLD listed in there?
Not true. And I don't know why you call them "rogue" sites. They are legitimate businesses and only prove that the public wants more. Open DNS Technologies has something different that it's working on that doesn't require changes to root.db on servers. It also has the ability to handle when ICANN manages the same TLD. Check it out. And on top of that, it can do email between the standard DNS and theirs.
A Constitution sounds like it might be a neat idea, but do you really think that you're going to get all the governments in the world to agree to the contents of a Constitution? I don't. It's a pipe dream. The problem is that different governments have different agendas. It may sound crazy, but if we had one International government (only), I think it might be easier. Or at least one with strength to rule over local country government, then something like this might be more feasible.
Until then, I think the best way is to open it up to everyone and get the registries to allow mass voting on what new TLDs are added. WIPO can handle the problems with trademarks.
Another point I feel worth mentioning, is that the problem also lies with the fact that WE are not taking advantage of the alternative DNS systems out there. If we make a mass migration over to alternative DNS systems, ICANN will lose its clout. This should send a message to any future organization or government that would like to manage DNS. Check out and support:
Before I begin, I think the moderator today is a little score happy. Some of the posts aren't exactly 5 worthy!
Now to the reply on this message.
I agree. Although I'm pretty sure the levy tax is the real issue for creating this, I really think its a great idea to place a programming package on consoles to help out kids or anyone wanting to learn how to program. I got my start on a Magnovox Odyssey 2 with their Assembler. Then I went to the TRS-80 Color Computer with its Extended BASIC and the EDTASM+ cartridge.
Kids I think can relate more to programming on a gaming console than a computer (at least initially).
1- Breaking the 3 letter barrier unleashes all sorts of problems and confusion. Some people mentioned we should move toward the USENET naming conventions -- what do you think ICANN's list of TLDs signifies?.museum?.pro? smith.name? Yeah, it's not alt.sex.stories.hermaphrodite, but it's a big step in that direction. I forgot who said it, but someone quipped about how to explain all this to their grandma. It's a good observation about how complex and confused the namespace will get now. In the past, you could basically count on www.whatever.com, it's been a no-brainer. But if these new TLDs take off, where's the consistency? People can't read a simple presidential ballot, c'mon!
I tend to disagree with you there. The primary function of DNS was to create a way to make it easier for humans to work with the growing number of hosts on the Internet. TCP/IP addresses were to hard to remember, so a number of systems evolved - two big ones were NIS and DNS.
That being said, what do you think would happen if you asked someone what dot-com stands for? How about dot-int? Or dot-org? You and I know, but non-technical folk? Most probably don't have a clue what they mean. I'm sure all here would agree with me on that. Maybe a UUNET type naming scheming isn't exactly the answer either, but something easier can be done - base it on simpler TLD names.
If I were a consumer and wanted to find a web site on Ford cars for example, what would I rather type that would make more sense to me? Probably
ford.cars
not
www.ford.com
Doing this rules out any other Ford company confusion because we know that we are looking for the ford company that makes cars. It also takes the hostname (typically www) out of the picture so that the user has less to type.
Is this something that can already be accomplished in DNS (ford.cars). Yes, if they added the dot-cars TLD (for example). Why not dot-travel? Or dot-family? Or dot-adult? These make sense and it would be easier for the consumer.
From experience, I can say that it is definitely possible, and would definitely be wanted by consumers.
Furthermore, we can't just dump DNS because of the two single most important uses of the Internet Email and Web addresses. We've gotten everyone used to DNS, we must figure out a way to change it into something else. I think that by opening TLDs (as opposed to limiting them), is the beginning of the reform.
I don't think you need an IP or any ISP authentication to watch or capture packets.
If your device's interface can see ethernet packets, why can't you also capture them and then decode them? TCP/IP exists at a different layer in the OSI reference model than does ethernet. TCP/IP is encapsulated within ethernet packets. So, if you had a device that sat at the right place on an ethernet network (like a gateway's uplink, the DMZ, or where a major pipe is), it would only need to be able to capture ethernet packets to be able to see the data inside whether it be TCP/IP, IPX/SPX, whatever.
I can't believe no one recommended this already! Put Setiathome on that baby right away. Everyone one/. should know about it, but in case you don't setiathome is something you can run on your machine to help the SETI institute do extraterrestrial research by analyzing data they collect from their radio telescopes.... It's neat to be a part of it and an SGI-Challenge 4 CPU server would be able to do LOTS of work units in no time I would guess.
An educational use would be to just allow kids to learn Unix off of it. Think of how much cool experience that would give them before they go off to college. Man if my Computer Club back in high school had an SGI to play with, I would've been stoked.
Additionally, you might want to see if you can get any mathematics software companies to provide free academic versions for you - like Mathematica by Wolfram Research or a statistics software package like SPSSX (I think that was the name). They would be great for advanced students. Fractal generators... Geometry... Physics...
I'm positive there's public domain chemistry and biology stuff out there too.
There are just too many possibilities to mention...
I wish I could help you out in person. Would love to volunteer some time for that.
What happened anyways? Current their datacenter I suppose. I go to mu.current.nu, and it says:
Pages Not Available, Will Return Soon, Sorry!
Don't worry, we know you want to see all your favorite sites back up. I'm taking note that someone from [insert my IP here] was using Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 5.01; Windows NT 5.0) and they wanted to see this page at Wed, Jun 28, 2000, 01:44:52 pm. Thanks for stopping by.
Slashdot Mirror
Still, everything I wrote is probably relatively accurate.
Chris
Make no mistake, Microsoft is VERY concerned about Linux. They will do everything in their power to shove serious competitors out of their way of making money, even if it means making (borderline hilarious) degrading remarks about the competition such as the latest.
I must say this though - I find it scary that Microsoft comments about security issues relating to Linux when they have vastly greater problems with their products.
Think people - of course Microsoft is going to want to say that Linux has no future - because it doesn't want them to!
Chris
What about Procomm Plus?
BBS'ing was fun. I used to love hosting doors with games like Tradewars or that Risk look alike. Got some great electronic mail management experience out of FidoNet and echomail when I was 14! Those were the good old days. =]
You could say that the SysOps of the BBS days were the equivalent of web site administrators and SysAdmins of today...
Chris
SkyWatch Home Page
Start up the Applet and you can find it.
Chris
Open DNS Technologies
This may be coming a little late, since this topic has gotten old, but...
While I am all for alternative roots existing as is evident in my many posts on the topic, I do not think that ICANN (or anyone operating root servers to any DNS) has to respect alternates' TLDs. Yes, that would be great for the alternate - it would save a lot of customer frustration, but just because you made it, doesn't mean you can claim ownership to it. Until you have become the standard DNS - grabbing most of the world population on your root servers, your TLDs don't mean anything to anyone in the world other than your customers. Any attempt at a cease and desist would never hold up in court.
That said, I think ICANN did make a mistake in choosing .biz . If not for the fact that it is too informal, but for the fact that it is in large use already.
Chris
Open DNS Technologies, Inc.
Thanks Dave. ;] For what it's worth, you've put up a great argument as well, although I'm still sticking to my guns.
You're definitely right, DNS is at the center of the Internet practically. It must be dependable. But I've done a lot of research on this, and I really don't think it's going to break by having alternative roots exist and grow in popularity. I'm not going to deny that it would be much better if ICANN would release more TLDs on a regular basis instead, but they won't. Now, if alternative roots could be able to support both root structures at the same time and handle conflicts (ex: the .biz problem in the topic here), then that would make a transition that much easier. This solution is the next generation of alternatives that can do that.
I think something is going to happen real soon. We'll see DNS change in a big way.
Chris
Open DNS Technologies
I am not in disagreement with anything you said (except your last sentence). I think you misunderstood my meaning of forking there. I am a devoted user of Linux and have been for many years, and what I was trying to convey is that people began to try out Linux even though it wasn't broadly accepted yet. It was risky, new, and undersupported. We forked away from using the retail stuff like Windows NT and etc..
Development forking isn't what I'm talking about here - I'm talking about industry acceptance and trying something new that isn't broadly accepted yet and has the potential. Linux was a perfect example of that and I was just making an analogy to that success.
If people didn't "fork" over to try something different like Linux, where would we be today? Things would be different. Linux helped grow the Internet in a big way I believe.
There are some times when forking is good. This is definitely not one of them.
And why not? I don't see any logic behind those opinions yet. They, to me, seem like old school opinions that hinder the development of the Internet. We need progress.
I don't want to stay in the dark ages, do you?
Chris
Open DNS Technologies
Ever since domain space became valuable, there are so many special interests circling it that it's not funny anymore. It's pretty ugly, actually. Consensus building has been pretty impossible because people with dollar signs flashing in their eyes shout louder, and the people who are just plain kooks shout the loudest. That's hurt a lot of the development of DNS in the last few years. The one weapon we've always had against this is caution, and a recognised authority.
Can you explain this for me? How has commercial interest in domain names hurt development of DNS? bind is a recognized defacto standard for running DNS practically. Those developing it (ISC) could do what they like practically and we'll all follow their lead. And if you're talking about the root server structure, sorry - I don't agree there either. Read DNS and BIND set up some root servers of your own, and you'll see what I mean. It's not rocket science to systems administrators.
1. ISPs will start advertising which of the conflicting roots they prefer: "We serve ICANN names!" "We follow AlterNIC!" etc. etc.
While this may be true for the standard alternative it isn't for this one. And besides, we've gone through this anyway at a different level - Operating Systems like Windows. "This application supports Win95 only" You upgrade and move on. Are we supposed to hinder progress just so those who want to live in the past can get what they want?
2. Users won't understand a word of this
Maybe not all, but I think that you are discounting what the average user knows nowadays. Besides, things will evolve to allow users to get where they want regardless of which alternative they choose - again, I point out this solution which allows access to both even when both exist in separate root structures.
(Cont'd in next message from me)
Chris
Open DNS Technologies
3. Users will complain "Why can't I reach mysite.biz!"
Maybe initially with some of the basic "use a different root.db" alternatives, but it'll pass. Newer solutions (like the one mentioned above) will evolve however, and not pose such a problem. It isn't going to be as big a deal as you are making out of it.
4. Lawsuit free-for-all over misleading advertisements and broken SLAs
You only register a domain name for a specified period of time - if you are using the basic alternative - just don't renew your registration next time around. Otherwise use the newer DNS solutions that can work with both as mentioned earlier. On top of that, when you register one of these domains, you know what you're getting into.
5. Lawsuit free-for-all over conflicting trademarks
Sorry, that statement is just plain wrong.
6. AOL, Microsoft and some others will remove DNS access from the user (URL bars, email addresses, etc) and replace it with a directory system that they manage (keyword searches, address books). One of these will gain a monopoly. No one but slashdot readers will care.
That'll never happen either. That would mean that they have to get out of the email game which AOL and Microsoft (Outlook) are so big in. Email depends on DNS. However, if I'm wrong, a new email standard can evolve from this that is more robust. Evolution is good.
Don't be fooled into thinking that everyone pushing for alternate DNS has the good of the internet at heart. Some of them mean well, I'm sure. Some of them are sound guys. I'm equally sure that some of them are out to grab a piece of the gold mine that is DNS, and are willing to damage it in the process. Believe it or not, ICANN is the one thing standing between us and a corporate takeover of the internet.
You struck a nerve there. Do you REALLY think that the Internet and DNS are not going to evolve over time? I respect your opinion, don't get me wrong, but I really disagree here. As I've said before, the existence of alternatives alone just proves that there is a problem with the way DNS is being managed. And about ICANN standing between us and a corporate takeover - I'm really having trouble holding myself together on that one. A corporate takeover? Of what, DNS?!? What do you mean anyway? ICANN is a corporation right now anyway. Granted, it's non-profit, but I'm not convinced that profit isn't their practice - at $50,000 a pop for just a shot at getting the right to be a registry for a TLD, I think that is a blatant rip off.
To drag this back on topic? We're seeing the beginning of this now. Everyone's been bitching at ICANN to hurry up and introduce some new TLDs already (watch for buzzwords such as "artificial scarcity" in other slashdot posts near you!) What happened? Someone tried to preempt them and lured a some-thousand userbase to give themselves some credence. What do ICANN do here? Reject potentially better-prepared proposals for favour of this one? I don't think that's fair.
Didn't understand this comment that much. Can you explain a little further? (Seriously).
Think for yourselves. Don't be afraid not to fork.
I agree. And remember, don't hinder progress.
Chris
Open DNS Technologies
Internet "precendent" says that we've tried to work out problems through consensus building. Seriously! We get together in groups like RIPE and NANOG, present our ideas, and try to build consensus. We can fork, yeah, but we fork as little as possible, because when we fork, we split the user base and we are all weaker because of it.
The Internet is a completely different animal than anything that has existed before. I'm not sure - you might want to ask Vinton about this - but I don't think that it was supposed to get this big. It wasn't supposed to catch on like a virus. We've got to make changes for it at its speed.
DNS came out some time ago to address the naming issues because there started to be more IP's than one could remember. Well, in the recent year or two, it has become blatantly obvious that the gTLDs (.com, .net, .org, etc.) aren't enough, so we're taking more in other ways - (for example .tv - supposed to be a ccTLD for Tuvalu but purchased for use as "television").
The point is, there's something wrong here, and there has to be something done. That control isn't a good thing, it stagnates the growth of the Internet. You nor any other technical or nontechnical person can convince me that there is a good reason why we can't have more TLDs.This is the reason why we have Alternate root servers out there - because there aren't enough TLDs. And the new ones that ICANN chose? They aren't going to help. What serious business wants to have .biz? It sounds too informal. .coop ? .aero? I'm sorry - but this just shows how little ICANN is really doing for us.
So, as for you stating about forking and it making us weak - well, I'm going to say one word - Linux. I'm sure you've heard of it. It's affected the computing industry in a BIG way. Nuff' said.
This is getting long so I'll address more points in my next response to this.
Chris
Open DNS Technologies
ICANN had a contract to run the top-level servers that everyone was using.
This is a common misconception. The root servers of the Internet aren't run by ICANN. They are run by supporting organizations around the world. This link shows where they are and who runs them. I believe the information is still accurate.
Some quick history about root servers and ICANN. The main root server - the "A root" or a.root-servers.net, is under the control of Network Solutions (now a part of Verisign). This server is where new TLDs are added. If you check your root.db or named.ca - the A root server is listed first. Other root servers get their info from that one.
So, ICANN, formed in October of 1998, was given the responsibility of managing DNS TLDs after the government decided that it should be in the hands of a private organization. Here is the scope of ICANN's control (in my words):
They manage the creation of new TLDs
They can say who is the registry to handle a TLD
They settle disputes over domain names
That's it. They can't touch alternate root structures.
All that needs to be done is for people to make a mass migration over to an alternate DNS structure. If you get enough people to be interested, ICANN will lose its clout, and pretty much fizzle away.
As I mentioned earlier, alternate DNS structures are a start, but you need more than an alternate root structure - you need compatibility with the legacy DNS structure as well - email is a perfect example. How will email servers talk to each other if one person is using an alternate DNS structure and another isn't? This place has something different that just might pull that transition off though.
Chris
Open DNS Technologies
This could turn into a debate on governments, but I think that the UN has no real power to enforce anything it wants to do. It depends on the representatives to have their governments carry out the actions. If you could depend on the UN itself to carry out actions, that's a different story. Give it some sort of strong military presence, and maybe things could be enforced. Don't know if that'll happen though.
I do believe that if the UN had more strength, they could be the ones to enforce any "laws" on the Internet and more specifically to our topic, the DNS.
Chris
Open DNS Technologies
Excuse my bluntness, but that doesn't make any sense. How do you expect the average nontechnical person to remember IP addresses. Be honest - if you were walking on the street and saw a sign for Macy's and wanted to shop online, what would be easier for you to remember at the spur of the moment? www.macys.com, macys.com, macys.shopping, or 63.73.131.68 ? How about an email address? Would you want to send email to me at cmilkosky@opendnstech.com or my IP address? Sorry, but as a human, I find the names easier to remember and I'm sure I'm not the only one.
You can't just abandon DNS anymore. There has to be an orderly transition away from it that makes sense. Something new may form in the next few years, but we aren't going to be abandoning DNS any time soon because of the apps that depend on it. Everything using the Internet is built around the use of DNS.
Chris
Open DNS Technologies,Inc.
Oh, I agree, I'm just saying that I don't think the Constitution idea could happen in the world we live in today because of the governments that exist. If we had one world government (probably also be a pipe dream) or something like that with enough strength to enforce global laws, then this may happen, but until then, I don't see a Constitution working.
Chris
Open DNS Technologies, Inc.
Not true. And I don't know why you call them "rogue" sites. They are legitimate businesses and only prove that the public wants more. Open DNS Technologies has something different that it's working on that doesn't require changes to root.db on servers. It also has the ability to handle when ICANN manages the same TLD. Check it out. And on top of that, it can do email between the standard DNS and theirs.
Chris
Open DNS Technologies
Until then, I think the best way is to open it up to everyone and get the registries to allow mass voting on what new TLDs are added. WIPO can handle the problems with trademarks.
Another point I feel worth mentioning, is that the problem also lies with the fact that WE are not taking advantage of the alternative DNS systems out there. If we make a mass migration over to alternative DNS systems, ICANN will lose its clout. This should send a message to any future organization or government that would like to manage DNS. Check out and support:
Open DNS Technologies
AlterNIC
ADNS
Open Root Server Confederation
Name.Space
There's more too.
Chris
Open DNS Technologies, Inc.
Now to the reply on this message.
I agree. Although I'm pretty sure the levy tax is the real issue for creating this, I really think its a great idea to place a programming package on consoles to help out kids or anyone wanting to learn how to program. I got my start on a Magnovox Odyssey 2 with their Assembler. Then I went to the TRS-80 Color Computer with its Extended BASIC and the EDTASM+ cartridge.
Kids I think can relate more to programming on a gaming console than a computer (at least initially).
Chris
I tend to disagree with you there. The primary function of DNS was to create a way to make it easier for humans to work with the growing number of hosts on the Internet. TCP/IP addresses were to hard to remember, so a number of systems evolved - two big ones were NIS and DNS.
That being said, what do you think would happen if you asked someone what dot-com stands for? How about dot-int? Or dot-org? You and I know, but non-technical folk? Most probably don't have a clue what they mean. I'm sure all here would agree with me on that. Maybe a UUNET type naming scheming isn't exactly the answer either, but something easier can be done - base it on simpler TLD names.
If I were a consumer and wanted to find a web site on Ford cars for example, what would I rather type that would make more sense to me? Probably
ford.cars
not
www.ford.com
Doing this rules out any other Ford company confusion because we know that we are looking for the ford company that makes cars. It also takes the hostname (typically www) out of the picture so that the user has less to type.
Is this something that can already be accomplished in DNS (ford.cars). Yes, if they added the dot-cars TLD (for example). Why not dot-travel? Or dot-family? Or dot-adult? These make sense and it would be easier for the consumer.
From experience, I can say that it is definitely possible, and would definitely be wanted by consumers.
Furthermore, we can't just dump DNS because of the two single most important uses of the Internet Email and Web addresses. We've gotten everyone used to DNS, we must figure out a way to change it into something else. I think that by opening TLDs (as opposed to limiting them), is the beginning of the reform.
Chris
-= www.opendnstech.com =-
Little correction there - gTLD stands for Generic Top Level Domain and the two letter country TLD's are called ccTLD's (Country Code TLD's).
The difference between the two is somewhat understandable. ccTLD's are for country codes only, and gTLD's are very general in their scope.
Chris
cmilkosky@opendnstech.com
Wasn't that on one of the Xfiles reruns? =]
If your device's interface can see ethernet packets, why can't you also capture them and then decode them? TCP/IP exists at a different layer in the OSI reference model than does ethernet. TCP/IP is encapsulated within ethernet packets. So, if you had a device that sat at the right place on an ethernet network (like a gateway's uplink, the DMZ, or where a major pipe is), it would only need to be able to capture ethernet packets to be able to see the data inside whether it be TCP/IP, IPX/SPX, whatever.
Moderator - you'd be doing this place a disservice if you didn't place Funny on this!
I can't believe no one recommended this already! Put Setiathome on that baby right away. Everyone one /. should know about it, but in case you don't setiathome is something you can run on your machine to help the SETI institute do extraterrestrial research by analyzing data they collect from their radio telescopes.... It's neat to be a part of it and an SGI-Challenge 4 CPU server would be able to do LOTS of work units in no time I would guess.
An educational use would be to just allow kids to learn Unix off of it. Think of how much cool experience that would give them before they go off to college. Man if my Computer Club back in high school had an SGI to play with, I would've been stoked.
Additionally, you might want to see if you can get any mathematics software companies to provide free academic versions for you - like Mathematica by Wolfram Research or a statistics software package like SPSSX (I think that was the name). They would be great for advanced students. Fractal generators... Geometry... Physics...
I'm positive there's public domain chemistry and biology stuff out there too.
There are just too many possibilities to mention...
I wish I could help you out in person. Would love to volunteer some time for that.
Good luck.
Chris
What happened?
If you play Unreal Tournament - this is an interesting one. I happened upon it by mistake, but found it at this Easter Egg archive site...
http://www.eeggs.com/items/6036.html
It opens a secret room in the Codex of Wisdom. Inside is a picture of this guy with the text "Pretty Fly" under it... It's interesting.
Later,
Chris