No. Go through the grueling years of residency any you're pretty much guaranteed a good paying job for life (for some specialties, it's spectacularly paid). Do you get that sort of certainty in molecular bio?
We don't need rational actors in America. What we need are people willing to work hard for delayed gratification (possibly postmortem). Just ask anyone like Tom Friedman. Then follow Tom's example - marry a billionaire.
Science and engineering postdocs are paid, just not very well
Do a search on STEM postdoc job ads - $50k is considered very generous. No, you won't starve, some people get by on less (though usually in low cost-of-living places rather than the high CoL areas where the better universities typically are). $50k/yr is about $24/hr assuming 40 hr weeks, but that's a ridiculous assumption. A goof-off postdoc probably does at least 60 hrs/wk, so that's $16/hr if you were paid on straight time. Hourly workers are supposed to get time and a half for OT, so an hourly worker doing 60 hrs/wk would pull in $50k if they worked 60 hrs/wk and had a base rate of $13.74/hr. How long after high school to get a Ph.D.? It varies quite a bit, but say 8-9 years on average. No big deal. Personally I don't understand why, however lazy and unmotivated Americans are, there aren't more of them clamoring for postdocs, when for a little education they can rake in big bucks like that.
If grad school has at best a questionable return, how could a postdoc - indentured servitude, slavery - be any better an idea?
In plain English, it's cheap labor. As I understand it, once upon a time in America, somebody reasonably good who got their Ph.D. could move to a faculty position fairly quickly. Not tenured at first of course, but likely tenure track. When we started getting more Ph.D.'s than we needed, they invented the post-doc. String 'em along, get lots of cheap labor, and every once in a while give somebody a faculty position so the rest could dream. But hey, everybody knows we've got a STEM shortage, right?
Back in the 80's the NSF pushed for a big increase in student visas. They noted that it would probably push down the salaries of Ph.D.'s, though I'm sure that wasn't a motivation.
Scary situation. People who've lived through wars and purges are more afraid of them than those that haven't. I think a major reason the world didn't go bang during the Cold War is that, for many years, the Soviet leadership was of the WWII generation. It's sobering to see most of your country destroyed. I think the USSR feared nuclear annihilation more than the US, because they'd lived through something approaching it.
Politically claim a batch of islands and let international law give you what you want for nothing.
Depend on which worthless islands you're talking about, China's claims under international law are somewhere between tenuous and laughable. Were it otherwise, they'd likely be pursuing that approach.
Taiwan has a better claim to these islands than either Japan or China.
I love it. China "losing" these islands to Japan would be a disappointment, but losing them to China's cause célèbre "no such country - province in rebellion" would make them apoplectic. Great fun (except for the possible war).
Slashdot Mirror
At the national lab level, STEM postdocs don't make *less* than $60k/year
So raise it from $13.74 to $16.48/hr. I'm still not impressed.
Look a few posts up - that was my original point.
The median payu for family practice is $138,000.00
Cite? It didn't take much effort for me to find a 2013 report:
Primary care physicians reported $216,462 in median compensation, and specialists reported $388,199 in median compensation
Then there's the little question of job security. How many unemployed physicians are there?
I've got a great idea for a new online game: "Droll humor or actual idiot - you decide".
There never has, nor will be, a shortage of mathematically and scientifically minded individuals.
If people who can earn Ph.D.'s in math or science are a dime a dozen, then why the demand for lots of visas for grad students and postdocs?
They drive the economy, and can do it mostly single-handedly.
Then you'd think they could earn a decent living doing it.
If you want to worry about science and not administrative issues then postdoc days are the golden days.
Who needs money? You can live on science!
Kind of like medicine
No. Go through the grueling years of residency any you're pretty much guaranteed a good paying job for life (for some specialties, it's spectacularly paid). Do you get that sort of certainty in molecular bio?
Glad you got the work, but I'd think FEA has lots of direct industry applications. What about more esoteric, but still important, areas?
No, it's a symptom of far too many people wanting a comfy job in an ivory tower where they never really have to achieve much.
Wow, best description of a postdoc position I've ever heard. Not like our hard working and underpaid CEO's, are they?
We don't need rational actors in America. What we need are people willing to work hard for delayed gratification (possibly postmortem). Just ask anyone like Tom Friedman. Then follow Tom's example - marry a billionaire.
Science and engineering postdocs are paid, just not very well
Do a search on STEM postdoc job ads - $50k is considered very generous. No, you won't starve, some people get by on less (though usually in low cost-of-living places rather than the high CoL areas where the better universities typically are). $50k/yr is about $24/hr assuming 40 hr weeks, but that's a ridiculous assumption. A goof-off postdoc probably does at least 60 hrs/wk, so that's $16/hr if you were paid on straight time. Hourly workers are supposed to get time and a half for OT, so an hourly worker doing 60 hrs/wk would pull in $50k if they worked 60 hrs/wk and had a base rate of $13.74/hr. How long after high school to get a Ph.D.? It varies quite a bit, but say 8-9 years on average. No big deal. Personally I don't understand why, however lazy and unmotivated Americans are, there aren't more of them clamoring for postdocs, when for a little education they can rake in big bucks like that.
If grad school has at best a questionable return, how could a postdoc - indentured servitude, slavery - be any better an idea?
In plain English, it's cheap labor. As I understand it, once upon a time in America, somebody reasonably good who got their Ph.D. could move to a faculty position fairly quickly. Not tenured at first of course, but likely tenure track. When we started getting more Ph.D.'s than we needed, they invented the post-doc. String 'em along, get lots of cheap labor, and every once in a while give somebody a faculty position so the rest could dream. But hey, everybody knows we've got a STEM shortage, right?
Back in the 80's the NSF pushed for a big increase in student visas. They noted that it would probably push down the salaries of Ph.D.'s, though I'm sure that wasn't a motivation.
Physics trumps linguistics.
Hey, even physicists get some once in a while.
Scary situation. People who've lived through wars and purges are more afraid of them than those that haven't. I think a major reason the world didn't go bang during the Cold War is that, for many years, the Soviet leadership was of the WWII generation. It's sobering to see most of your country destroyed. I think the USSR feared nuclear annihilation more than the US, because they'd lived through something approaching it.
if we don't start caring for our citizens again and start handing out raises
If we don't eventually wake up and do that, I'd want the US to become irrelevant.
Living forever sounds boring. Let's liven things up and nuke someplace (maybe ourselves, ala Catch-22).
Politically claim a batch of islands and let international law give you what you want for nothing.
Depend on which worthless islands you're talking about, China's claims under international law are somewhere between tenuous and laughable. Were it otherwise, they'd likely be pursuing that approach.
Nice to have a Taiwanese troll instead of a Chinese troll for a change (though the Chinese would insist there's no difference).
How about letting Taiwan defend itself? It's not poor, and has plenty of potential allies in the area that want to contain China.
I like it - call it removing a hazard to navigation.
I do not believe that there is anyone in Tokyo or Washington that is so much invested in these islands to risk *everything* for them.
Is Beijing so invested in them that they are willing to risk everything?
Remember that SIGINT airplane that they forced to land during the reign of W? They will do it again.
Likely, but that didn't start a war (too many shipments of Chinese junk to the US were at stake).
Nah, even the Chinese shills are a lot subtler than that. I just want to ask what color the sky is in his world.
DHS and the CIA will now be looking for anyone named "Anonymous Coward". I suggest you travel under an alias.
Taiwan has a better claim to these islands than either Japan or China.
I love it. China "losing" these islands to Japan would be a disappointment, but losing them to China's cause célèbre "no such country - province in rebellion" would make them apoplectic. Great fun (except for the possible war).
Why are you asking that question when the OP specifically said he wanted to do the opposite?