Open Source Software is released (or should be) when it's ready. Sun is a business, yes, but it hasn't committed to a ship date for Gnome 2.0. They've wisely given only hazey estimates as to when it would be ready. Truth be known they don't know any more than anyone else does. It will be released when it's ready. Gnome 1.4 will end up being released later than the original estimates, but that does not indicate a failure of the project. It simply means the estimates were off. The Linux kernel is another example of such a situation. No one (with any authority) has ever promised Gnome 1.4 or Linux 2.4 by a certain date, they've only given estimates that proved to be off. Any person who has worked on a large scale software project will tell you how very difficult it is to estimate times for product development. You really don't know how much work will need to be done until you get in there and start doing it, often. ----
Yes, it just became possible recently. If you use the Helix Installer, point the mirror to the "Evolution Preview" and grab the latest packages. The most recent packages of Evolution 0.8 fix problems with Bonobo and gtkhtml as well. Then you can grab the latest builds of Nautilus and it should work. Nautilus and Evolution both now use Bonobo 0.30. It's a beautiful thing. Hope it works for you. Questions? Email me and I can probably help. ----
They aren't shipping Gnome (and consequently Nautilus) until version 2.0. Gnome 1.4, which we're hoping to release some time around early March (really whenever Nautilus is ready), will be the first release of Gnome to include Nautilus. There will be plenty of time during the lifecycle of Gnome 1.4 (which I expect will be at least 6 months) to iron out issues with Nautilus. Nautilus is quite usable now. I've been running it in place of gmc for a few weeks now. Granted it still needs some work, but to say that Sun is making a decision on a product that is vapor is absurd. What Sun is committing to is Gnome, really, not Eazel's nautilus in particular, since Nautilus is the future file manager (and so much more) for Gnome. If anything you should blame Gnome for commiting to using Nautilus before 1.0, which of course is absurd, since Nautilus is part of the Gnome project. It takes a certain level of commitment in order to begin development at all. ----
The Media is thoroughly confused, but this isn't news to anyone. I'm tired, too, of hearing about the "Eazel" desktop environment. Don't get me wrong. I love what Eazel, and other companies are doing for open source projects such as Gnome. I just dislike the Media's gross misunderstanding of the relationship between the Community and the Corporation. One wonders of the Media will ever really grasp the beast known as the Open Source/Free Software Community and how it integrates with the business models of companies such as Red Hat, Eazel, and Helix Code. "They" don't seem to fully grasp the idea that the Community (project, source, forums) is an entity separate from the Corporation, yet a part of it with a powerful relationship. The Corporation may enhance the Community, providing resources that the Community might not be able to provide on it's own, yet if the Corporation were to die, the Community would live on. And the Corporation very much feeds on the Community.
----
From what I've seen of what Eazel is
doing, it's better than Gnome
What Eazel is doing is Gnome. A next-generation file manager has been planned for the Gnome Project for a long time. Eazel came along and decided to implement it. Nautilus is the file manager for Gnome 1.4. The Eazel developers are entirely a part of the Gnome community. Just hang out on #gnome or #nautilus on gimpnet for a while to see what I mean. ----
Sun is waiting until Nautilus reaches 1.0. Sun isn't shipping Gnome with Solaris until version 2.0. Gnome 1.4 hasn't even been released and won't be until Nautilus has matured enough. Nautilus isn't vapor. They still have issues to iron out and bugs to fix, but it's there and you can test it out. ----
Not to mention all the other drawbacks to statically linked binaries such as increased size. Dynamically linking to libraries contributes to code-reuse and modularity in the system. As you mentioned, if something is broken in the library, you just fix it in the library and don't have to recompile the applications that use it. ----
Will you be leaving Bochs as the multi-platform solution? Will the Bochs be abandoned in favor of Plex86?
Bochs and Plex86 are two different beasts. Plex86 is inherently not multi-architectural. It is designed to do virtualization on x86. It should certainly be possible to run it on a variety of x86 OS's, however, such as FreeBSD. Bochs, on the other hand, is an emulator. You can emulate x86 on non-x86 architectures. ----
That and more has already been done. Check out the Cygwin Tools. I installed them on my Windows 2000 box at work and now I have bash, vim, grep, sed, awk, and many more Unix tools working on my Windows machine. It's a very powerful addition to a Windows development environment. When I'm developing in Visual Studio, I can click on a button on the toolbar, pull up the source file I'm hacking on in Vim, do powerful search and replaces using regex's. Or I can pop up a bash session and do greps or run bash scripts I've written. I love it. ----
There are many good reasons for wanting Gnome applications to work in Windows. The first one that comes to mind is that it would be nice to be able to run the Gnome applications that I have come to absolutely love, in Windows. Also, this would make the GTK+/Gnome platform much more attractive to developers that are currently on the fence. If they know that an application they develop using the GTK+/Gnome platform can be made to run in Windows, that is very exciting, because Windows is already the platform of choice for 90% of the world. Having said that, I don't think a proprietry application like U/Win and an X-Server is the right answer. The right answer, IMHO, is to perfect the portability in the GTK+/Gnome platform itself. The Windows port of GDK, is coming along nicely, and I expect that with time, porting a GTK+/Gnome application to Windows will become as trivial as a recompile. ----
Nothing is preventing this. GTK+ uses an abstraction layer called GDK which sits between the widgets and the underlying windowing system (Windows, X, etc.). To get GTK+ working in Windows, you port the GDK to the Windows windowing layer. This has already been done (though not perfected, IIRC). You can, for example, run a Windows native version of the Gimp. ----
Gnome is not just a desktop. It is also an application framework. I personally think it would be very cool to be able to run the Gnome apps I love in Windows. x-chat, for example, is the best IRC client I've found, for any platform. However, I don't like the idea of having to use a commercial tool like U/WIN and an X-server. ----
Re:My Initial experiences - posted from .6
on
Mozilla .6 Released
·
· Score: 1
To me, part of the beauty of Linux is that I can run a tiny kernel, X, and a reasonably small window manager (fvwm2), and get decent performance out of truly obselete hardware.
Indeed, it is a beautiful thing. And if you do happen to have the resources, you can run a full Gnome or KDE desktop, with a window manager like Enlightenment where you get plenty of eye candy.
What I really don't understand is, why is every version of everything bigger and slower than the previous one? Shouldn't we be moving toward smaller/faster/lighter?
These days memory is cheap and life is short. Seriously, though, while it's true that performance issues should be addressed (I think it's absurd how slowly Mozilla runs on my machine given the resources I have), if you look at what Mozilla is and does, it is going to take some resources. Likewise, a full Gnome or KDE desktop is going to take some resources. In order to take advantage of things like component technology, themable widget sets, virtual file systems, font and drawing abstractions, you're going to take a performance hit. Whether or not you want to use these technologies, is up to you. As you mentioned, that is part of the beauty of Linux. But that is a big part of the reason why things are getting bigger. Smaller/faster/lighter almost always means it can do less and is leaner, which for some things is all you need. Also performance is often the last issue that developers deal with. Generally they want to get the features in, the major bugs out first, then turn to tuning everything, slimming it down, etc. ----
Re:My Initial experiences - posted from .6
on
Mozilla .6 Released
·
· Score: 2
I know what you mean. I hear "Mozilla is bloody fast now that I'm using the nightly builds!" Well, I download the nightlies every day. In the morning at work I grab the Windows version and in the evening I grab the Linux version at home. The Windows version *is* fast. Unfortunately, the Linux version is not. The UI is just very unresponsive. Menus in particular are slow to update and feel very sluggish and unresponsive. popping up a new window is a slow process. It's very unfortunate. I believe I have an adequate machine, too. I'm running Linux on an AMD K6-2 450 with 256 Mb RAM. The widgets are just very very sluggish compared to the version I run on Windows. ----
The main thing I love about an exchange type setup is having the ability to share your appointments with other users. A manager can schedule meetings and events that will show up on everyone's calendar. Another nice feature would be build-in holidays in the database. It's annoying having to check a "real" calendar for what dates holidays fall on and then enter them manually in my calendar. ----
Nautilus shows previews of text in files in the icon itself. You can zoom in and out to get more or less information, or individually stretch an icon or shrink it. Image files also are previewed as thumbnails. And you can listen to mp3's in the icon view with a mouse-over. Or you can convert a directory into a virtual album by switching to the music view. That's just the tip of the iceberg. There are other views and you can write your own. Of course, these can be disabled for performance issues or personal taste. ----
Slashdot Mirror
Open Source Software is released (or should be) when it's ready. Sun is a business, yes, but it hasn't committed to a ship date for Gnome 2.0. They've wisely given only hazey estimates as to when it would be ready. Truth be known they don't know any more than anyone else does. It will be released when it's ready. Gnome 1.4 will end up being released later than the original estimates, but that does not indicate a failure of the project. It simply means the estimates were off. The Linux kernel is another example of such a situation. No one (with any authority) has ever promised Gnome 1.4 or Linux 2.4 by a certain date, they've only given estimates that proved to be off. Any person who has worked on a large scale software project will tell you how very difficult it is to estimate times for product development. You really don't know how much work will need to be done until you get in there and start doing it, often.
----
----
Yes, it just became possible recently. If you use the Helix Installer, point the mirror to the "Evolution Preview" and grab the latest packages. The most recent packages of Evolution 0.8 fix problems with Bonobo and gtkhtml as well. Then you can grab the latest builds of Nautilus and it should work. Nautilus and Evolution both now use Bonobo 0.30. It's a beautiful thing. Hope it works for you. Questions? Email me and I can probably help.
----
They aren't shipping Gnome (and consequently Nautilus) until version 2.0. Gnome 1.4, which we're hoping to release some time around early March (really whenever Nautilus is ready), will be the first release of Gnome to include Nautilus. There will be plenty of time during the lifecycle of Gnome 1.4 (which I expect will be at least 6 months) to iron out issues with Nautilus. Nautilus is quite usable now. I've been running it in place of gmc for a few weeks now. Granted it still needs some work, but to say that Sun is making a decision on a product that is vapor is absurd. What Sun is committing to is Gnome, really, not Eazel's nautilus in particular, since Nautilus is the future file manager (and so much more) for Gnome. If anything you should blame Gnome for commiting to using Nautilus before 1.0, which of course is absurd, since Nautilus is part of the Gnome project. It takes a certain level of commitment in order to begin development at all.
----
The Media is thoroughly confused, but this isn't news to anyone. I'm tired, too, of hearing about the "Eazel" desktop environment. Don't get me wrong. I love what Eazel, and other companies are doing for open source projects such as Gnome. I just dislike the Media's gross misunderstanding of the relationship between the Community and the Corporation. One wonders of the Media will ever really grasp the beast known as the Open Source/Free Software Community and how it integrates with the business models of companies such as Red Hat, Eazel, and Helix Code. "They" don't seem to fully grasp the idea that the Community (project, source, forums) is an entity separate from the Corporation, yet a part of it with a powerful relationship. The Corporation may enhance the Community, providing resources that the Community might not be able to provide on it's own, yet if the Corporation were to die, the Community would live on. And the Corporation very much feeds on the Community.
----
What Eazel is doing is Gnome. A next-generation file manager has been planned for the Gnome Project for a long time. Eazel came along and decided to implement it. Nautilus is the file manager for Gnome 1.4. The Eazel developers are entirely a part of the Gnome community. Just hang out on #gnome or #nautilus on gimpnet for a while to see what I mean.
----
Sun is waiting until Nautilus reaches 1.0. Sun isn't shipping Gnome with Solaris until version 2.0. Gnome 1.4 hasn't even been released and won't be until Nautilus has matured enough. Nautilus isn't vapor. They still have issues to iron out and bugs to fix, but it's there and you can test it out.
----
Not to mention all the other drawbacks to statically linked binaries such as increased size. Dynamically linking to libraries contributes to code-reuse and modularity in the system. As you mentioned, if something is broken in the library, you just fix it in the library and don't have to recompile the applications that use it.
----
Bochs and Plex86 are two different beasts. Plex86 is inherently not multi-architectural. It is designed to do virtualization on x86. It should certainly be possible to run it on a variety of x86 OS's, however, such as FreeBSD. Bochs, on the other hand, is an emulator. You can emulate x86 on non-x86 architectures.
----
/ping pioneer
Ping reply from Pioneer : 887.28 second(s)
<NASA> damn, this lag is a bitch.
----
That and more has already been done. Check out the Cygwin Tools. I installed them on my Windows 2000 box at work and now I have bash, vim, grep, sed, awk, and many more Unix tools working on my Windows machine. It's a very powerful addition to a Windows development environment. When I'm developing in Visual Studio, I can click on a button on the toolbar, pull up the source file I'm hacking on in Vim, do powerful search and replaces using regex's. Or I can pop up a bash session and do greps or run bash scripts I've written. I love it.
----
There are many good reasons for wanting Gnome applications to work in Windows. The first one that comes to mind is that it would be nice to be able to run the Gnome applications that I have come to absolutely love, in Windows. Also, this would make the GTK+/Gnome platform much more attractive to developers that are currently on the fence. If they know that an application they develop using the GTK+/Gnome platform can be made to run in Windows, that is very exciting, because Windows is already the platform of choice for 90% of the world. Having said that, I don't think a proprietry application like U/Win and an X-Server is the right answer. The right answer, IMHO, is to perfect the portability in the GTK+/Gnome platform itself. The Windows port of GDK, is coming along nicely, and I expect that with time, porting a GTK+/Gnome application to Windows will become as trivial as a recompile.
----
Nothing is preventing this. GTK+ uses an abstraction layer called GDK which sits between the widgets and the underlying windowing system (Windows, X, etc.). To get GTK+ working in Windows, you port the GDK to the Windows windowing layer. This has already been done (though not perfected, IIRC). You can, for example, run a Windows native version of the Gimp.
----
It wouldn't be difficult at all to theme the apps to look like Windows. The framework is all there.
----
Gnome is not just a desktop. It is also an application framework. I personally think it would be very cool to be able to run the Gnome apps I love in Windows. x-chat, for example, is the best IRC client I've found, for any platform. However, I don't like the idea of having to use a commercial tool like U/WIN and an X-server.
----
...figures it'd be the 47,000 line.
----
Indeed, it is a beautiful thing. And if you do happen to have the resources, you can run a full Gnome or KDE desktop, with a window manager like Enlightenment where you get plenty of eye candy.
What I really don't understand is, why is every version of everything bigger and slower than the previous one? Shouldn't we be moving toward smaller/faster/lighter?
These days memory is cheap and life is short. Seriously, though, while it's true that performance issues should be addressed (I think it's absurd how slowly Mozilla runs on my machine given the resources I have), if you look at what Mozilla is and does, it is going to take some resources. Likewise, a full Gnome or KDE desktop is going to take some resources. In order to take advantage of things like component technology, themable widget sets, virtual file systems, font and drawing abstractions, you're going to take a performance hit. Whether or not you want to use these technologies, is up to you. As you mentioned, that is part of the beauty of Linux. But that is a big part of the reason why things are getting bigger. Smaller/faster/lighter almost always means it can do less and is leaner, which for some things is all you need. Also performance is often the last issue that developers deal with. Generally they want to get the features in, the major bugs out first, then turn to tuning everything, slimming it down, etc.
----
This is simply untrue. You can download Nautilus PR2 and test it and the Eazel services out. In addition you can download hourly RPM builds of Nautilus. I've been running these for a few weeks now and it's coming along nicely.
----
I know what you mean. I hear "Mozilla is bloody fast now that I'm using the nightly builds!" Well, I download the nightlies every day. In the morning at work I grab the Windows version and in the evening I grab the Linux version at home. The Windows version *is* fast. Unfortunately, the Linux version is not. The UI is just very unresponsive. Menus in particular are slow to update and feel very sluggish and unresponsive. popping up a new window is a slow process. It's very unfortunate. I believe I have an adequate machine, too. I'm running Linux on an AMD K6-2 450 with 256 Mb RAM. The widgets are just very very sluggish compared to the version I run on Windows.
----
42 is the answer. 47 is everything else.
----
47 just makes a lot of sense. I can't imagine it being any other number.
----
The main thing I love about an exchange type setup is having the ability to share your appointments with other users. A manager can schedule meetings and events that will show up on everyone's calendar. Another nice feature would be build-in holidays in the database. It's annoying having to check a "real" calendar for what dates holidays fall on and then enter them manually in my calendar.
----
Nautilus shows previews of text in files in the icon itself. You can zoom in and out to get more or less information, or individually stretch an icon or shrink it. Image files also are previewed as thumbnails. And you can listen to mp3's in the icon view with a mouse-over. Or you can convert a directory into a virtual album by switching to the music view. That's just the tip of the iceberg. There are other views and you can write your own. Of course, these can be disabled for performance issues or personal taste.
----
^tcsh^clip
----
This command won't work. Look at the output of "ps -ae". Something like this is closer:
ps -C "tcsh" --format=pid= | xargs kill -9
or if you really want to do it with a grep and regex:
ps aux | egrep ".*tcsh.*" | awk '{print $2}' | xargs kill -9
----