The guy had help in finding out who it was who abused his service, by Richard Clayton, he writes in his blog about this: "on a typical day he'd receive 3.2 million bad packets (that's 37 a second!). "
Here he explains how he traced down who was behind, what he calls a DDoS attack: His blog
When you buy wheat, are you paying for the farmer's time or buying the produce? Buying gold could be seen as buying a service but it looks more like a product. When you go to a gold farmers web site, what are they selling there? Time or gold?
That is perception. Someone who does a job will usually say they are paid for their time.
Read the dictionary definition of guest. Being a guest does not automatically mean that you're invited over for free. Ever been a guest at a hotel?
No, I've been a paying customer at a hotel.
It'd be interesting to see if your demographical study of people who agree and disagree with gold selling is accurate.
Obviously its not a scientific study. Apart from the Everquest people did a poll among the customers, how they would feel if Sony started to sell items - and the big majority couldn't care less.
I like your comment about kids and hardcore gamers 'whining' about it. I'm not exactly a hardcore gamer but when someone is trying to piss in my local pond, forgive me if I point out the rules of the game.
I'll forgive you pointing out the rules, though not necessarily calling it pissing in the pond.
You think it's fine to go to a house to play monopoly and bring along a wad of your own cash without letting the other players know?
Not relevant. Its more a case of, would i care if you brought extra cash for the game you are playing next door - no, not really.
The terms say that you're not allowed to sell items from the game.
Which they may or may not be able to enforce legally, but people can equally well say they are not selling ephemeral items, but charging for their time. How is this spin?
The spin isn't what is written but how you try to enterpret it. You wrote "You are charging someone for something that you contractually have no right to sell." and I just said - no, that is your way of looking at it.
So far I don't believe Blizzard have sued anyone yet. It will be interesting to see if they can so this whole matter can be settled.
I doubt they will, they probably realise that most people do not have a problem with this, its mostly only kids and hardcore gamers who whine about it.
In the meantime, it seems prudent to observe the conditions since remember that we are guests of their service.
No, when you are a guest you are invited over for free. People on their servers are paying customers - and if they majority turn out to want this, then Blizzard should do what they ask.
Read the ToCs. They clearly state that the data within the game remains the property of Blizzard therefore you have no legal right to sell anything in the game, even if it 'belongs' to your character.
Actually, I don't believe it has been proven that its a "legal right" - of course if Blizzard kicks out kids, they can't afford to mount a legal battle. Another view that has yet to reach the courts is that if this items have ingame value they should be taxed by the state, some have argued that is a potential valid point.
You are not just charging someone for your time.
That is your point of view - there are others. Courts exsist because there are different points of view.
You are charging someone for something that you contractually have no right to sell.
That is your spinn on the situation, others maintain that since there is nothing real in the game there is nothing to sell, except to rent out your time.
This no better than trying to sell the Eiffel tower to tourists.
Not related at all. Perhaps if you had postulated someone trying to sell a guided tour of the Eiffel tower you might have a vauge point.
It's as valid as me trying to illegally sell your car on eBay using the legal disclaimer "This is my car since I washed it every Sunday morning for a really really long time".
Nonsense - if you are selling his car its something you have stolen. That somebody want to charge you for their time is no business of Blizzards.
Quoted directly from the ToS:... Accordingly, you may not sell items for "real" money or exchange items outside of World of Warcraft.....
Even if we assume that text is legally valid (which I doubt), its not outside the world of warcraft, Its *inside* world of warcraft - from one player to another. Now if a player want money for his time, there is nothing blizzard or any other company can do to prevent or even outlaw that (unless they can buy laws in the world)
Stop playing my game! You're breaking the rules and making it worse for everyone! ACs are modded -6. I don't read you, I don't mod you, I don't see you. Don't like it? Don't be a coward.
Hey, its one of the rules here you don't have to register. So breaking the rules on slashdot!
Sweden too has signed the Berne convention, the government is generally too afraid to get in a fight with anyone, its unlikely they will make a stand on something as this.
If folks still question the implication, then I'd suggest that they fund their own studies to prove otherwise... the burden of proof now falls on the nay-sayers.
No actually, the burden falls on you - you are the one who cries guilty - and guilty until proven innocent. And just because a group of people may or may not behave in a certain fashion is as close to proof as saying you have proof the earth is flat because you can see the horizon is straight.
Slashdot Mirror
Even just changing the hostname of the server would at least make the legitimate users notice, investigate and use the new address.
Yeah if bullies start harassing you, just move to a new location! Not.
Learn how to read or STFU about him being an asshole.
Hear hear!
The guy had help in finding out who it was who abused his service, by Richard Clayton, he writes in his blog about this: "on a typical day he'd receive 3.2 million bad packets (that's 37 a second!). "
Here he explains how he traced down who was behind, what he calls a DDoS attack: His blog
Hmm, your comment is about 1.5 years too late. Better luck next time?
You mean it has been worse!?!?! Thats hard to imagine.
P.S. You're missing out on a great sci-fi mmorpg that keeps getting better.
I joined recently, what a mistake that was. You'd be hard pressed to find something more booring and contentless.
Lame laggye offline fest.
Is it somehow related to AAA batteries?
When you buy wheat, are you paying for the farmer's time or buying the produce? Buying gold could be seen as buying a service but it looks more like a product. When you go to a gold farmers web site, what are they selling there? Time or gold?
That is perception. Someone who does a job will usually say they are paid for their time.
Read the dictionary definition of guest. Being a guest does not automatically mean that you're invited over for free. Ever been a guest at a hotel?
No, I've been a paying customer at a hotel.
It'd be interesting to see if your demographical study of people who agree and disagree with gold selling is accurate.
Obviously its not a scientific study. Apart from the Everquest people did a poll among the customers, how they would feel if Sony started to sell items - and the big majority couldn't care less.
I like your comment about kids and hardcore gamers 'whining' about it. I'm not exactly a hardcore gamer but when someone is trying to piss in my local pond, forgive me if I point out the rules of the game.
I'll forgive you pointing out the rules, though not necessarily calling it pissing in the pond.
You think it's fine to go to a house to play monopoly and bring along a wad of your own cash without letting the other players know?
Not relevant. Its more a case of, would i care if you brought extra cash for the game you are playing next door - no, not really.
The terms say that you're not allowed to sell items from the game.
Which they may or may not be able to enforce legally, but people can equally well say they are not selling ephemeral items, but charging for their time.
How is this spin?
The spin isn't what is written but how you try to enterpret it. You wrote "You are charging someone for something that you contractually have no right to sell." and I just said - no, that is your way of looking at it.
So far I don't believe Blizzard have sued anyone yet. It will be interesting to see if they can so this whole matter can be settled.
I doubt they will, they probably realise that most people do not have a problem with this, its mostly only kids and hardcore gamers who whine about it.
In the meantime, it seems prudent to observe the conditions since remember that we are guests of their service.
No, when you are a guest you are invited over for free. People on their servers are paying customers - and if they majority turn out to want this, then Blizzard should do what they ask.
Read the ToCs. They clearly state that the data within the game remains the property of Blizzard therefore you have no legal right to sell anything in the game, even if it 'belongs' to your character.
Actually, I don't believe it has been proven that its a "legal right" - of course if Blizzard kicks out kids, they can't afford to mount a legal battle. Another view that has yet to reach the courts is that if this items have ingame value they should be taxed by the state, some have argued that is a potential valid point.
You are not just charging someone for your time.
That is your point of view - there are others. Courts exsist because there are different points of view.
You are charging someone for something that you contractually have no right to sell.
That is your spinn on the situation, others maintain that since there is nothing real in the game there is nothing to sell, except to rent out your time.
This no better than trying to sell the Eiffel tower to tourists.
Not related at all. Perhaps if you had postulated someone trying to sell a guided tour of the Eiffel tower you might have a vauge point.
They are not selling items, they are chargeing for their time.
Not much of an economist are you? Putting more gold (money) into the economy causes prices to rise,
No, greed causes the prices to raise. Which mean they will anyway.
you wouldn't need to play as much to get a rich character if they wern't inflating the market.
Nonsense.
It's as valid as me trying to illegally sell your car on eBay using the legal disclaimer "This is my car since I washed it every Sunday morning for a really really long time".
Nonsense - if you are selling his car its something you have stolen. That somebody want to charge you for their time is no business of Blizzards.
If you pay someone money and they give you gold, that is a sale plain and simple. That sale is explicitly against the TOS.
Except it isn't.
Quoted directly from the ToS: ... Accordingly, you may not sell items for "real" money or exchange items outside of World of Warcraft.....
Even if we assume that text is legally valid (which I doubt), its not outside the world of warcraft, Its *inside* world of warcraft - from one player to another.
Now if a player want money for his time, there is nothing blizzard or any other company can do to prevent or even outlaw that (unless they can buy laws in the world)
Also don't forget, that some of these sites BUY gold from players.
Stop playing my game! You're breaking the rules and making it worse for everyone!
ACs are modded -6. I don't read you, I don't mod you, I don't see you. Don't like it? Don't be a coward.
Hey, its one of the rules here you don't have to register. So breaking the rules on slashdot!
Well death tax is sick twisted and amoral, so is it a suprise Bill gates supports it?
Surprisingly very wealthy people such as Bill Gates Sr. and Warren Buffett support the death tax.
Well death tax is sick twisted and amoral, so is it a suprise Bill gates supports it?
Sweden too has signed the Berne convention, the government is generally too afraid to get in a fight with anyone, its unlikely they will make a stand on something as this.
I've seen no links (I have been paying attention to the news though - the real news, not just sensationalism)
If folks still question the implication, then I'd suggest that they fund their own studies to prove otherwise... the burden of proof now falls on the nay-sayers.
No actually, the burden falls on you - you are the one who cries guilty - and guilty until proven innocent. And just because a group of people may or may not behave in a certain fashion is as close to proof as saying you have proof the earth is flat because you can see the horizon is straight.
Studies have indeed shown a causal relationship between video games and hyperactivity, attention deficit, and violence.
Some groups claim that yes (especially in the hysterical states of america) but haven't shown any proof.
... that there are idiots who think if you censor and supress enough, you'll have a great world!
Its suspicious behavior. And since he returned it, it wasn't his - arguably he doesn't have the right to delete files from their machine.