"Ali did not as far as I know ever ever advocate violence to solve problems in his life or the world"
Yes he did. Needs money - beats people up on national TV - gets millions.
I understand that what you are saying is that the only targets are willing participants, but that is the case in many violent conflicts (think barfight).
In a barfight people do not wear boxing gloves. Boxing is designed to cause the least amount of damage possible to the opponent. This is why the match is called if one of the fighters gets hurt, you must wear gloves, you are resitricted on where to hit people, you cannot use elbows or knees, etc etc.
According to my Indian friends in graduate school, Indian engineers get a starting pay of 300,000-350,000 Rupees per year.
Now, admittedly, in US currency that's ca. $6500-$7500. But consider: Rent around Bangalore is 6,000 Rupees per month. That's $131 dollars a month. A good computer in India costs 30,000 Rupees or $656.31.
These are not people at the poverty level. They are self-respecting middle-class IT workers. America's cost of living (which drives the computation of minimum wage) doesn't apply.
Yes, yes, but the POINT, which I see you have missed, was that $6500 per annum is far below the minimum US wage, which by my calculations tops $10k/year. So in order to compete for these jobs an engineer with a masters degree would need to accept a wage lower than he possibly can get, much less afford.
I understand your point. I mean not only are Indian programmers not suffering, they live a lifestyle of which most Americans would be jealous. Hell, they have live in servants! Over here such extravagance is frowned upon severely. But this has nothing to do with whether US workers can compete on price.
The illegals in houston traveled from their country to ours. They crossed our borders illegally.
The israeli army rolled into the west bank and captured that terratory in war. The palestenians had been living there previously.
The situation is more like china invading tibet. China invaded tibet, killed a bunch of tibetians, destroyed their culture and heritage and moved a bunch of chinese into tibet to dilute the population.
Unlike Israel though it eventually made all the tibetians chinese citizens. Israel after 30+ years of occupying the palestenians can't get itself act like a civilized nation and make these people citizens. Hell it can't even bring itself to act like china.
Instead it has chosen to act like South Africa and set up an apartheid. Shame, shame,shame.
The Palestinians could become Israeli citizens, vote, and even be elected to the Knesset. Some choose to do this, others choose not to. There are a fair number of racist politicians in Israel (well on both sides, but here I am talking about Israeli racists), many incidentally from South Africa, who are causing a lot of trouble. Those are the agitators for killing palestinians and bulldozing their homes.
It is a complex issue. I am hoping that the Palestinians get smart and elect a real leader who is actually interested in living in peace and democracy rather than an autocratic terrorist. This will make it easier for the Israelis to do the same. Then there will be a Palestinian state and the immigration issues can ensue.
Let's see...If we are talking about exploration of the space...and you are all saying how proud you are of being american...why dont you say what country was the first to put up a space shuttle around the earth? or the first to take a human being on space? IT WAS NOT AMERICA. You seem to forget your errors and only put your success. That's the problem with americans, you are always saying that the world owes you everything, but you dont seem to accept that you have errors (Apolo I, Iraq, support for the dictators in latin america, support Bin Laden, Vietnam, etc). I'm sorry but I must hate you...my father was tortured and killed in Chile (a regime that you support) only because he traveled to the USSR and eastern europe. My kudos for been responsible of a massacre and actually feeling proud about it (we did it because the security of the world), I dont know how do you expect to not be hated by all the countries you destroyed, only because you tought that was the right thing to do. You are not angels, you are not saviors, you are not heros (nobody IS) trying to impose your LIBERTY by the force (or supporting a regime) is only making you worst that the regime that was before you. Same goes to the Spirit and Beagle2, I'm glad that you feel proud of having success, but remember to learn from errors or you will only have an awful revenge. Cheers.
I did not list our numerous sins and errors specifically because I was replying to a post that asked of what Americans can be proud. If you read my other posts you will find I am often highly critical of the US and its leadership.
There are few things in our history more shameful than our policy in Latin America. I think the main problem here was that our leaders were driven by capitalism rather than democracy. And it was a particularly insidious form of capitalism as well, in which only the very few gain anything at all, off the backs of the many workers. That was wrong, and if I ever attain political office, it will be something I will strive to correct. If I ever see anyone running for office who promises to change this I will vote for them.
The average american is not a corporate CEO or a VP for United Fruit. The average american works hard for what they have and would like the rest of teh world to succeed and have freedom as well. Do not mistake the actions of a few for the will of America.
Also it is a mistake to think of the US as a single ethnic background, and to a large extent it is different from most other countries in this way. All of the countries in the Western Hemisphere are made up mostly of immigrants, but of the countries in this hemisphere the US is the most desirable for immigration precisely because it offers unparalleled opportunities for immigrants. The best and the brightest from all over the world come to the US to live. This is, by the way, what Confucius said should be the goal of nations. You want to make your country the best place to live in in the world so that the best people will be falling over themselves to come there and make it even better.
I have never supported any dictator, nor terrorist anywhere. My tax dollars probably did, but they were a drop in the bucket. So far as these things have ever been submitted for my review I have always opposed them. I think that is typical of most americans, which is why the support of dictators is generally secret. When americans learn that the CIA is helping dictator X oppress his people, or that the Army School of the Americas is churning out expert torturers, they cry for blood. There have been several cases where this goes into trial, like Iran-Contra. Granted, the ultimate response of the government is less than should be desired, but that is what happens when you elect elitists to run the country.
I hope that by continuing to promote pride in the US we can make people proud enough to fight the elitists and antidemocratic forces. I pray that this leads to us helping our neighbours lead better lives without fear of reprisals. And I hope they can forgive the past when we have finally buried these demons.
This is exactly what a European sees in Bush. See how easily the US gov't has been able to manipulate public opinion and get support by bashing the French in the Iraq question rather than addressing the actual issues. He's ridden roughshod over democratic principles in domestic policy and is detaining civilian prisoners without access to a lawyer in Guantanamo, all in the name of "national security".
Actually Bush is a fascist, but for the reasons I outlined. He does not care about freedom, democracy, or the will of the people. He gives it lip service bacsue admitting he wants to be a dictator publicly would go too far. BUt he acts autocratically. Congress these days is a rubber stamp, just as the Reichstag was in Nazi Germany. And that is even if they get to vote. A number of laws have been written by the Bush administration. Some of them are simply entered as decrees or "policy changes." Others are voted in without any debate or comment allowed, and as secretly as one can in this country (like the provisions of Patriot II that were slipped into a bill which, apparently, congressmen were not allowed to read for security reasons).
But I am still glad to live in the US because there is still the possibility to be rid of Bush through democratic means. He has gotten away with a lot through fiat, and has certainly been given plenty of slack thanks to the actions of the mujahadeen his father funded and trained. But there are limits yet to his power, and alsthough he has done as much as he can to make it illegal to speak against him, he cannot overtly do so. He must at leats pretend he is a democratic leader because if he does not the gig is up.
Hopefully we will soon get someone better in there. I think the damage from the events of recent years on our cherished freedoms will take a long time to heal. It will require, strangely enough, strong leadership, but strong leadership from someone who is NOT an autocrat like Bush and his pal Putin are.
As for the lessons we learn from WWII, two things which are hammered into our heads in public schools are the trend of the US to reduce military spending after each war (in fact we practically dissolved our military after each of the first few wars). The other is the peril of nonintervention. Intervening in Germany's affairs before WWII woudl have saved a lot of lives.
Personally I think the most important lesson of the WWII era is how quickly people will in general make that trade of liberty for safety our founding fathers warned us about. I see it happening now with Bush, and he is using a lot of the same tactics Hitler did when he was gaining power. But it is verboten to even dare compare Bush to Hitler, ostensibly because Bush has not built any concentration camps. But there was a time when Hitler had not built any either and was building support in the way Bush is now. That is a fair comparison, IMHO.
As for jingoism and all that you mentioned, I look at it this way. I think it is wrong to treat people from other countries as inferior. But I think everyone should have pride in their country. Just think if everyone in Ethiopia banded together to make Ethiopia kick ass! Then Sally Struthers would be out of a job. As for ribbing the otehr team, well, that is the point. If you win a football match you don't tell people they suck necessarily, but you woudl rib them a bit. It's good clean fun.
As for my comments about France, well, look. I did not cease liking France because of Bush. I always thought they were in decline like many former European powers. I think it is sad. They think they are hot, and they are not. French people should be proud of their country, mainly for its history, but they should recognize its problems. They are not a world superpower. They give themselves far too much credit and it is detrimental to fixing what is really wrong in France.
As for France and Iraq, I opposed the war in Iraq because I felt Bush had the wrong motivations.
You obviously have not lived in Germany. Raising a German national flag on a flag pole in your garden is enough to be called a Nazi pig. It was hotly publicly debated if one can actually claim 'I am proud to be a German!' (Ich bin stolz ein Deutscher zu sein!).
And you know what? It is concensus that it is unacceptable to make such a statement. Do it and you will be denounced a frigging Nazi pig. It is fine to be 'thankfull' or 'gratefull'. But 'proud'? That would be too much. Don't belive me? Ask any of your German friends - should you have any.
Maybe this give some of you an idea how your biased patriotism sounds in the ears of contemporary Germans who has been tought over and over again that 'patriotism' == 'fascism' == 'dead jews' == 'YOUR fault'.
Just my 0.02 Euro.
I am somewhat aware of the detrimental effects of overdoing denazification, but I did not know how far it had gone. That is sad. Germans have a lot of things of which to be proud. It is sad that Hitler took power and planned to destroy Germany, as well as the Jews, but he is dead now. Let us bury the Nazis, not praise them, but don't bury Germany with them.
I have befriended a few Germans here and there and have found those I have met among the most conscientious, intelligent, and friendly people I have known. So be proud to be German. You have a rich history, a fair dinkum present, and a glorious future ahead.
Also you will find that unlike the US, the EU countries have been paying their share of the UN. The US has in the past refused to pay and they are only doing so now by renegotiating their contributions downwards.
This was because the US was pretty much paying the entire budget of the UN. No the EU countries were not paying their share. They did, however, dutifully pay their dues. I opposed the Republican plans to not pay our dues, but regardless of this fact, the dues for the US far outstripped those of the EU even as a collective. This was what precipitated the calls to drop out of the UN and/or stop paying, among other things.
I'd be really curious if some false-advertising claim could be made against the companies.
If they advertise "X-Mbps" and I don't get it 95%, 99%, (what's an appropriate SLA for the computer industry) of the time, it's broken!
With the web site the company I'm at is hosting hosting, between WorldCom and Akamai, we're buying 50Mbps (95th percentile). If they tell us "oops you used 50Mbps for too many seconds", that's just wrong.
If a ISP wants to charge per Gigabyte, I'm all for it. But if their advertising Mbps, they should deliver.
Personally, I'd be all for some companies offering charge-per-Gigabyte plans, because I think there's a lot of time that I don't use that many gigabytes.
I have never seen even close to the bandwidth advertised by broadband companies in the US. Time Warner advertises 4MBps download and I typically got 50kbps max download. I think their little benchmark app showed 250kbps. Comcast advertises similarly and the fastest downloads are about 125kbps. Now I realize that there are many other factors here including the site in question. But what about the sites local to the isp? Those were actually even slower typically.
Another thing to be proud of with respect to the US is that our citizens clearly do care about what happens in the rest of the world, as evidenced by our work as the global police. "We bomb you because we care!"
Actually, here in the US there is a group called "Food not Bombs" who distribute food to the homeless. Now imagine their surprise when they found that we were dropping food and bombs simultaneously on Afghanistan. Well, at least we got it half right:P.
Ali physically beats other men into submission for millions of dollars.
If he is a pacifist, I'd hate to see the warmongers from his clan...
Well, actually he does not do a lot of boxing nowadays. Parkinsons will do that to you.
Boxing is a sport. The participants in a boxing ring are fighting based one defined rules and are there of their own free will. I have never seen evidence that Ali ever caused more damage to an opponent than was necessary to win the fight. Likewise, boxers are usually not fighting to settle a dispute, they are playing a game.
Ali did not as far as I know ever ever advocate violence to solve problems in his life or the world. Yes, boxing is a violent sport like football and rugby, etc. But it is a sport and a game, not a violent means of resolving conflict.
Whenever I read obvious BS like this on/. I bookmark the post, wait until I get new mod points and mod it down once I do.
We had your kind of patriotism in Germany too once you know? It's called fascism now.
Well if you are truly German perhaps reports of superior German education are unfounded after all. Allow me to give you a demonstration in political science 101.
What you are referring to in actually Nationalism. A firm belief that your country is the best. Nationalism gets a bad rap in part because of situations like Nazi Germany. But it is really not evil in itself to think your country is the best in the world. The trick is to work to make it so. If you do not have pride in your country, and do not work to make your country better, your civilization will ultimately fall.
Besides, what is wrong with having pride in one's country? Someone said that the US had nothing to be proud of. I refuted them and gave some of the myriad reasons US citizens have to be proud. What is wrong with that?
What would you say if I claimed Germany had nothing to be proud of? Would you not defend your country and speak of its rich cultural traditions, beautiful landscape (and women), beer and sausages, excellent automobiles, and kick-ass highway system? Is being proud of national achievements really fascist? Of course it isn't.
Fascism is the belief that society should be strictly controlled by a strong leader. Examples of Fascism in action are Fascist Italy and Spain and Nazi Germany during and before WWII. I have never advocated fascism and I never will. I believe strongly in freedom, democracy, and self-reliance. These are, by the way the cornerstones of American (US) philosophy of which we are likewise very proud.
I didn't know that has ever happened. We've sent stuff there, starting in 1976, but are you sure we (i.e., Terrans) ever managed to bring samples back? And what mission was that?
Probably this was a case of the news reports being confusing. I remembered a lot of reports of "rocks from mars with life on them" which must have been the same story as the first one.
Exactly. Islam is being equated to Linux. This is something I don't want Linux to be associated with.
You do realize that Muhammed Ali was a pacifist who went to jail rather than have to kill another human being, and that he credited Islam for this conviction? I think not all followers of Islam are the same....
Thanks for that. America did not invent * the computer....
Also, currently the EU has a larger GNP then America.
I will give you the military though as you seem so proud of it.
Actually I was pretty sure we did invent the computer. All the early computers, from Babbage's analytical engine to the ENIAC etc were designed in the USA. Nevertheless, I was directly referring to the personal computer which was invented by Steve Wozniac and Steve Jobs, two fine upstanding Americans.
As for the EU, well, it's not a country now is it? I think that's eventually in the cards but adoption of the Euro will be important to that and there are some difficulties. Nevertheless, I think we should ramp up if Europe has somehow overtaken us as a collective in GNP. I mean after all if we are going to top them in defense spending then we should top GNP as well.
As for the military, I am proud that that military has kept the world safe from dictators and bullies. By the way that includes keeping Europe safe after it was proven Europeans themselves could not do that. A lot of Europeans are proud of the grand social programs they have and the many investments in infrastructure their countries' governments have made. But I wonder if that would be possible if the Europeans had to even come close to paying their equal share for UN and NATO costs. You should think about that next time you want to complain about teh US being a global policeman.
website : CERN (Switzerland) broadband : ??? ADSL - Alcatel (France) telephone : Bell (Canada) Big Mac : who gives a shit (USA)
Just love those crappy posts who seem to score on Slashdot... you just have to wonder what they are smoking !
I'll give you the web. I was clearly wrong. I had conflated invention of the graphical web browser (US) with invention of the web.
I was right about US companies (AT&T and Time-Warner) coming up with broadband, however. Likewise Alexander Graham Bell was a US citizen and a patriot, so you are wrong to attribute him to Canada. Someone else expounded on this better than I could in this thread.
But hey, go invent something in your country and make them proud! That is what this is all about anyway.
Canadians love to claim this, but it's basically untrue. Bell was born and educated in Scotland, then he moved to London in 1867 (at age 20). In 1870 he moved to canada, and then in 1872 (just two years in canada) he moved to the US. The telephone was officially unveiled in the US, four years later in 1876. The patents for the telephone are all filed in the US.
One reason canada likes to claim the telephone as their own is because bell occasionally visited canada for long periods (as much as 6 months at a time) before he invented the telephone, and then continued to do this even after 1876. He also probably made some key discoveries in the 2 years he officially lived there. But, by this logic, scotland has more claim the telephone than canada, simply because he was there a lot more before the invention.
At any rate, he was an American citizen, and proud to be one at that.
whereas the USSR enslaved as much of the world as it could as had their friends the Nazis
You make some good points, but you *really* ought to check yourself on this one. Try telling some old Soviet tank commander, or some little old babushka that the Nazis were their friends, and you'll be lucky if you walk away from the incident. A lot of Russians hate and distrust Germans in general, and Nazis in particular, with a passion that most people find hard to comprehend. Considering the nearly 40 million Russians/Soviets that died as the result of 2 German invasions, I can't say I blame them. The USSR did a lot of horrible things, but being friends of the Nazis? Never.
The USSR was never friends with the Nazis? You do realize that had Stalin not allowed Hitler to build weapons in Soviet factories and train troops on Soviet soil that he was not supposed to have he would never have been ready to start WWII, don't you? Then there was that bit about the nonagression pact they had with one another. Oh, and there's also the fact the the USSR traded with Hitler providing much-needed petroleum products without which the war would have likewise not been possible.
Though Hitler opposed Communism, both Stalin and Hitler ran similar regimes. They befriended one another in order to carve up Europe. Yes, it went sour for them, and I am sure the Soviet tank commanders did not like the Germans after that even if they had liked them before (hint, there are centuries at least of animosity between Russia, Ukraine, Poland, and Germany, and for good reason). But the USSR and the Nazi regime were indeed friends and helped one another enslave the people of Europe.
When the allies defeated Hitler, Stalin made sure that he would not lose his gains. Eastern Europe was under Soviet domination. But wait, there is more. The Soviet states were actually under Russian domination the whole time, and the USSR gained several states.
Speaking of which I think you will find that the majority of Soviet losses were in fact losses from nonRussian states, most of all from Ukraine. Ukraine fought on three sides at least in the war. There were Ukrainian SS troops fighting for the Germans, Ukrainian Red Army troops fighting for Stalin, and Ukrainian partisans fighting for Ukraine. It all added up to a lot of Ukrainians being killed in battle besides the massive civilian casualties. The civilians were starved and attacked by all sides.
The tale in other Soviet states is very similar. In addition vast numbers of the native populations were deported to Siberia. As for the Red Army losses, these were exacerbated by Stalin's refusal to accept escaped POWs or any form of retreat. Sometimes the troops who were goading units into battle with orders to shoot any Red Army soldier who came back were better equipped than those who were fighting.
Now that I think about it, it probably was disengenuous to say it the way I did because it might imply that the average Soviet citizen liked and approved of what was happening. That is certainly not the case. Stalin is the real culprit here. But that is just it. You get the US or you get Stalin. Personally I think the US way is better. And trust me, as much as I dislike Bush, I prefer him to Putin just as much as I would have FDR to Stalin.
It seems to me that historically success of Jewish people in societies (which incidentally leads to them contributing positively to a given society) is met with jealousy and a fear that "they are taking over."
I would feel like somebody was taking over if they bulldozed my home.
Wow, Wyoming is getting more desolate every day! Oh wait... those were pictures of ISRAEL. Yes, I think it is safe to say the Israelis are taking over Israel. [sarcasm] Oh my god, what will this world come to next! Those conniving motherfuckers! [/sarcasm]. Now what does this have to do with Jews taking over the world again?
2000: He sends me a doc files. Each time I say "Don't send me doc files, I can't read them. RTF or PDF." I'm too stubborn to do whatever it takes to read doc files.
2001: He sends me a doc files. Each time I say "Don't send me doc files, I can't read them. RTF or PDF." I'm too stubborn to do whatever it takes to read doc files.
2002: He sends me a doc files. Each time I say "Don't send me doc files, I can't read them. RTF or PDF." I'm too stubborn to do whatever it takes to read doc files.
2003: He sends me a doc files. Each time I say "Don't send me doc files, I can't read them. RTF or PDF." I'm too stubborn to do whatever it takes to read doc files.
Guess how 2004 is shaping up? Hint: he sent me a doc file this morning.
You think that is bad? We have project managers who are in love with MSProject, and send everything in that format. Nevermind the fact no one has that on their windows desktop. I finally requisitioned that and found that everything she had been sending me could have been done in notepad and better so.
"Not too many people will tell IBM to 'go take a hike' when IBM wants something in another format"
Ummm...you underestimate the supremecy of the customer, IBM's respect for that, and any good salesperson's inclination to bridge the gap to the next sale.
"You want to charge me $5 million for a mainframe by sending me a proposal that I can't read in Microsoft Office? Got take a hike!"
Last time I checked, text files were readable in MSWord, as were word documents and rtfs. PDF is also readable on Windows. Documents in all of these formats can be created with Linux applications. Most of them are open formats.
God please.... I'm sick of the so-called "usability" and supposed "performance" of KDE and GNOME. I feel like I'm using some college sophomore's re-interpretation of MS Windows. If somebody came along and made a lightweight, dynamic windowing system and desktop environment for Linux, with real usability and minimalism, I'd shit my pants!
Personally, I prefer fvwm to all other GUIs. It is lightweight, easy to configure, stable, backwards compatable, and portable. It is also far more usable for me than any of the others I have tried, and that geos for KDE and GNOME as well.
seems to equate the use of linux with all the worlds best in their respective fields of expertice.
See, now, that's funny, because, to me, that commercial seems to equate Linux with a dopey sci-fi movie or one-season TV show.
What it *doesn't* equate to is the fleeting suspicion that anybody in the commercial knows anything about computers, software, operating systems, or OSS. I mean, they *might*, but you'd never know it from the commercial
Erm, the commercial is ABOUT OSS. Think about it. They say "we have this kid, his name is Linux" Linux learns everyday from the foremost experts around the world. As Linux grows he becomes stronger, faster, better, smarter. Linux absorbs everything around him. That is the essence of OSS, and that is what happens in the commercial. The idea is to get people who do not understand software to understand this fundamental fact of OSS.
Well, there is absolutely nothing to be proud of with respect to the US, or is there?
Sure there is. We have the strongest economy and the largest GNP in the world. We have the greatest technology (though I fear that may change if we do not shape up) in the world. We have the strongest military. We invented the computer you are using to connect to the website (also invented here) over the internet (invented here) using broadband (invented here) or the telephone (also invented here). Slashdot itself was invented here and is hosted here.
Another thing to be proud of with respect to the US is that our citizens clearly do care about what happens in the rest of the world, as evidenced by our work as the global police. True, we get a lot of flak over it, but the US has endeavoured to do some very good things with its technology and powerful military. If teh US was really bent on world domination, it would be a dark dark world indeed. But Americans don't want to dominate the world, they want other people to live free like we do. Nothing illustrates this better than what happened in WWII, where every country occupied by the US ended up being a liberated democracy whereas the USSR enslaved as much of the world as it could as had their friends the Nazis.
What confuses most people, Americans included, is the actions of our government in recent decades. There are clearly people in our government with Imperialist attitudes about things, and right now those people are more powerful than ever before, more popular, and more arrogant. So we have a serious chance of losing what makes us great right now. This is why ordinary Americans need to recall why we are proud to be Americans. Step up to the plate, speak out, and say no to those who seek to dominate other human beings.
ZOG as in Zionist something something... shit people say things I write are conspiratorial, but man those liberty forums they have the right frame of mind... Run/.'ers
ZOG as in Zionist Occupation Government, a favorite pejorative of militias and white supremacists to refer to the Federal Government. Actually there are t-shirts you can get which have ZOG and black helicopters on them, if you wanna mess with people.
I was reading about an FBI raid on some white supremacist terrorists trying to act out _The_Turner_Diaries_ and apparently they changed out of their FBI uniforms and into uniforms that said ZOG. I have mixed feelings baout them doing this. On the one hand, it is probably a joke in poor taste, and they are no longer identifying themselves as the FBI. But then again given their audience, I guess they were appropriately identifying themselves in this case.
I really don't see how anyone gets the idea that Jews run anything outside of perhaps the Knesset, Mossad, and the IDF. It seems to me that historically success of Jewish people in societies (which incidentally leads to them contributing positively to a given society) is met with jealousy and a fear that "they are taking over." The sooner we get rid of people with such a mentality, the better. Maybe we can ship them to Saudi Arabia?:P
Slashdot Mirror
"Ali did not as far as I know ever ever advocate violence to solve problems in his life or the world"
Yes he did. Needs money - beats people up on national TV - gets millions.
I understand that what you are saying is that the only targets are willing participants, but that is the case in many violent conflicts (think barfight).
In a barfight people do not wear boxing gloves. Boxing is designed to cause the least amount of damage possible to the opponent. This is why the match is called if one of the fighters gets hurt, you must wear gloves, you are resitricted on where to hit people, you cannot use elbows or knees, etc etc.
According to my Indian friends in graduate school, Indian engineers get a starting pay of 300,000-350,000 Rupees per year.
Now, admittedly, in US currency that's ca. $6500-$7500. But consider: Rent around Bangalore is 6,000 Rupees per month. That's $131 dollars a month. A good computer in India costs 30,000 Rupees or $656.31.
These are not people at the poverty level. They are self-respecting middle-class IT workers. America's cost of living (which drives the computation of minimum wage) doesn't apply.
Yes, yes, but the POINT, which I see you have missed, was that $6500 per annum is far below the minimum US wage, which by my calculations tops $10k/year. So in order to compete for these jobs an engineer with a masters degree would need to accept a wage lower than he possibly can get, much less afford.
I understand your point. I mean not only are Indian programmers not suffering, they live a lifestyle of which most Americans would be jealous. Hell, they have live in servants! Over here such extravagance is frowned upon severely. But this has nothing to do with whether US workers can compete on price.
Apparently you are way confused.
,shame.
The illegals in houston traveled from their country to ours. They crossed our borders illegally.
The israeli army rolled into the west bank and captured that terratory in war. The palestenians had been living there previously.
The situation is more like china invading tibet. China invaded tibet, killed a bunch of tibetians, destroyed their culture and heritage and moved a bunch of chinese into tibet to dilute the population.
Unlike Israel though it eventually made all the tibetians chinese citizens. Israel after 30+ years of occupying the palestenians can't get itself act like a civilized nation and make these people citizens. Hell it can't even bring itself to act like china.
Instead it has chosen to act like South Africa and set up an apartheid. Shame, shame
The Palestinians could become Israeli citizens, vote, and even be elected to the Knesset. Some choose to do this, others choose not to. There are a fair number of racist politicians in Israel (well on both sides, but here I am talking about Israeli racists), many incidentally from South Africa, who are causing a lot of trouble. Those are the agitators for killing palestinians and bulldozing their homes.
It is a complex issue. I am hoping that the Palestinians get smart and elect a real leader who is actually interested in living in peace and democracy rather than an autocratic terrorist. This will make it easier for the Israelis to do the same. Then there will be a Palestinian state and the immigration issues can ensue.
Let's see...If we are talking about exploration of the space...and you are all saying how proud you are of being american...why dont you say what country was the first to put up a space shuttle around the earth? or the first to take a human being on space? IT WAS NOT AMERICA. You seem to forget your errors and only put your success. That's the problem with americans, you are always saying that the world owes you everything, but you dont seem to accept that you have errors (Apolo I, Iraq, support for the dictators in latin america, support Bin Laden, Vietnam, etc). I'm sorry but I must hate you...my father was tortured and killed in Chile (a regime that you support) only because he traveled to the USSR and eastern europe. My kudos for been responsible of a massacre and actually feeling proud about it (we did it because the security of the world), I dont know how do you expect to not be hated by all the countries you destroyed, only because you tought that was the right thing to do. You are not angels, you are not saviors, you are not heros (nobody IS) trying to impose your LIBERTY by the force (or supporting a regime) is only making you worst that the regime that was before you.
Same goes to the Spirit and Beagle2, I'm glad that you feel proud of having success, but remember to learn from errors or you will only have an awful revenge.
Cheers.
I did not list our numerous sins and errors specifically because I was replying to a post that asked of what Americans can be proud. If you read my other posts you will find I am often highly critical of the US and its leadership.
There are few things in our history more shameful than our policy in Latin America. I think the main problem here was that our leaders were driven by capitalism rather than democracy. And it was a particularly insidious form of capitalism as well, in which only the very few gain anything at all, off the backs of the many workers. That was wrong, and if I ever attain political office, it will be something I will strive to correct. If I ever see anyone running for office who promises to change this I will vote for them.
The average american is not a corporate CEO or a VP for United Fruit. The average american works hard for what they have and would like the rest of teh world to succeed and have freedom as well. Do not mistake the actions of a few for the will of America.
Also it is a mistake to think of the US as a single ethnic background, and to a large extent it is different from most other countries in this way. All of the countries in the Western Hemisphere are made up mostly of immigrants, but of the countries in this hemisphere the US is the most desirable for immigration precisely because it offers unparalleled opportunities for immigrants. The best and the brightest from all over the world come to the US to live. This is, by the way, what Confucius said should be the goal of nations. You want to make your country the best place to live in in the world so that the best people will be falling over themselves to come there and make it even better.
I have never supported any dictator, nor terrorist anywhere. My tax dollars probably did, but they were a drop in the bucket. So far as these things have ever been submitted for my review I have always opposed them. I think that is typical of most americans, which is why the support of dictators is generally secret. When americans learn that the CIA is helping dictator X oppress his people, or that the Army School of the Americas is churning out expert torturers, they cry for blood. There have been several cases where this goes into trial, like Iran-Contra. Granted, the ultimate response of the government is less than should be desired, but that is what happens when you elect elitists to run the country.
I hope that by continuing to promote pride in the US we can make people proud enough to fight the elitists and antidemocratic forces. I pray that this leads to us helping our neighbours lead better lives without fear of reprisals. And I hope they can forgive the past when we have finally buried these demons.
This is exactly what a European sees in Bush. See how easily the US gov't has been able to manipulate public opinion and get support by bashing the French in the Iraq question rather than addressing the actual issues. He's ridden roughshod over democratic principles in domestic policy and is detaining civilian prisoners without access to a lawyer in Guantanamo, all in the name of "national security".
Actually Bush is a fascist, but for the reasons I outlined. He does not care about freedom, democracy, or the will of the people. He gives it lip service bacsue admitting he wants to be a dictator publicly would go too far. BUt he acts autocratically. Congress these days is a rubber stamp, just as the Reichstag was in Nazi Germany. And that is even if they get to vote. A number of laws have been written by the Bush administration. Some of them are simply entered as decrees or "policy changes." Others are voted in without any debate or comment allowed, and as secretly as one can in this country (like the provisions of Patriot II that were slipped into a bill which, apparently, congressmen were not allowed to read for security reasons).
But I am still glad to live in the US because there is still the possibility to be rid of Bush through democratic means. He has gotten away with a lot through fiat, and has certainly been given plenty of slack thanks to the actions of the mujahadeen his father funded and trained. But there are limits yet to his power, and alsthough he has done as much as he can to make it illegal to speak against him, he cannot overtly do so. He must at leats pretend he is a democratic leader because if he does not the gig is up.
Hopefully we will soon get someone better in there. I think the damage from the events of recent years on our cherished freedoms will take a long time to heal. It will require, strangely enough, strong leadership, but strong leadership from someone who is NOT an autocrat like Bush and his pal Putin are.
As for the lessons we learn from WWII, two things which are hammered into our heads in public schools are the trend of the US to reduce military spending after each war (in fact we practically dissolved our military after each of the first few wars). The other is the peril of nonintervention. Intervening in Germany's affairs before WWII woudl have saved a lot of lives.
Personally I think the most important lesson of the WWII era is how quickly people will in general make that trade of liberty for safety our founding fathers warned us about. I see it happening now with Bush, and he is using a lot of the same tactics Hitler did when he was gaining power. But it is verboten to even dare compare Bush to Hitler, ostensibly because Bush has not built any concentration camps. But there was a time when Hitler had not built any either and was building support in the way Bush is now. That is a fair comparison, IMHO.
As for jingoism and all that you mentioned, I look at it this way. I think it is wrong to treat people from other countries as inferior. But I think everyone should have pride in their country. Just think if everyone in Ethiopia banded together to make Ethiopia kick ass! Then Sally Struthers would be out of a job. As for ribbing the otehr team, well, that is the point. If you win a football match you don't tell people they suck necessarily, but you woudl rib them a bit. It's good clean fun.
As for my comments about France, well, look. I did not cease liking France because of Bush. I always thought they were in decline like many former European powers. I think it is sad. They think they are hot, and they are not. French people should be proud of their country, mainly for its history, but they should recognize its problems. They are not a world superpower. They give themselves far too much credit and it is detrimental to fixing what is really wrong in France.
As for France and Iraq, I opposed the war in Iraq because I felt Bush had the wrong motivations.
You obviously have not lived in Germany. Raising a German national flag on a flag pole in your garden is enough to be called a Nazi pig. It was hotly publicly debated if one can actually claim 'I am proud to be a German!' (Ich bin stolz ein Deutscher zu sein!).
And you know what? It is concensus that it is unacceptable to make such a statement. Do it and you will be denounced a frigging Nazi pig. It is fine to be 'thankfull' or 'gratefull'. But 'proud'? That would be too much. Don't belive me? Ask any of your German friends - should you have any.
Maybe this give some of you an idea how your biased patriotism sounds in the ears of contemporary Germans who has been tought over and over again that 'patriotism' == 'fascism' == 'dead jews' == 'YOUR fault'.
Just my 0.02 Euro.
I am somewhat aware of the detrimental effects of overdoing denazification, but I did not know how far it had gone. That is sad. Germans have a lot of things of which to be proud. It is sad that Hitler took power and planned to destroy Germany, as well as the Jews, but he is dead now. Let us bury the Nazis, not praise them, but don't bury Germany with them.
I have befriended a few Germans here and there and have found those I have met among the most conscientious, intelligent, and friendly people I have known. So be proud to be German. You have a rich history, a fair dinkum present, and a glorious future ahead.
Also you will find that unlike the US, the EU countries have been paying their share of the UN. The US has in the past refused to pay and they are only doing so now by renegotiating their contributions downwards.
This was because the US was pretty much paying the entire budget of the UN. No the EU countries were not paying their share. They did, however, dutifully pay their dues. I opposed the Republican plans to not pay our dues, but regardless of this fact, the dues for the US far outstripped those of the EU even as a collective. This was what precipitated the calls to drop out of the UN and/or stop paying, among other things.
I'd be really curious if some false-advertising claim could be made against the companies.
If they advertise "X-Mbps" and I don't get it 95%, 99%, (what's an appropriate SLA for the computer industry) of the time, it's broken!
With the web site the company I'm at is hosting hosting, between WorldCom and Akamai, we're buying 50Mbps (95th percentile). If they tell us "oops you used 50Mbps for too many seconds", that's just wrong.
If a ISP wants to charge per Gigabyte, I'm all for it. But if their advertising Mbps, they should deliver.
Personally, I'd be all for some companies offering charge-per-Gigabyte plans, because I think there's a lot of time that I don't use that many gigabytes.
I have never seen even close to the bandwidth advertised by broadband companies in the US. Time Warner advertises 4MBps download and I typically got 50kbps max download. I think their little benchmark app showed 250kbps. Comcast advertises similarly and the fastest downloads are about 125kbps. Now I realize that there are many other factors here including the site in question. But what about the sites local to the isp? Those were actually even slower typically.
Another thing to be proud of with respect to the US is that our citizens clearly do care about what happens in the rest of the world, as evidenced by our work as the global police.
"We bomb you because we care!"
Actually, here in the US there is a group called "Food not Bombs" who distribute food to the homeless. Now imagine their surprise when they found that we were dropping food and bombs simultaneously on Afghanistan. Well, at least we got it half right :P.
>>Ali was a pacifist
Ali physically beats other men into submission for millions of dollars.
If he is a pacifist, I'd hate to see the warmongers from his clan...
Well, actually he does not do a lot of boxing nowadays. Parkinsons will do that to you.
Boxing is a sport. The participants in a boxing ring are fighting based one defined rules and are there of their own free will. I have never seen evidence that Ali ever caused more damage to an opponent than was necessary to win the fight. Likewise, boxers are usually not fighting to settle a dispute, they are playing a game.
Ali did not as far as I know ever ever advocate violence to solve problems in his life or the world. Yes, boxing is a violent sport like football and rugby, etc. But it is a sport and a game, not a violent means of resolving conflict.
Whenever I read obvious BS like this on /. I bookmark the post, wait until I get new mod points and mod it down once I do.
We had your kind of patriotism in Germany too once you know? It's called fascism now.
Well if you are truly German perhaps reports of superior German education are unfounded after all. Allow me to give you a demonstration in political science 101.
What you are referring to in actually Nationalism. A firm belief that your country is the best. Nationalism gets a bad rap in part because of situations like Nazi Germany. But it is really not evil in itself to think your country is the best in the world. The trick is to work to make it so. If you do not have pride in your country, and do not work to make your country better, your civilization will ultimately fall.
Besides, what is wrong with having pride in one's country? Someone said that the US had nothing to be proud of. I refuted them and gave some of the myriad reasons US citizens have to be proud. What is wrong with that?
What would you say if I claimed Germany had nothing to be proud of? Would you not defend your country and speak of its rich cultural traditions, beautiful landscape (and women), beer and sausages, excellent automobiles, and kick-ass highway system? Is being proud of national achievements really fascist? Of course it isn't.
Fascism is the belief that society should be strictly controlled by a strong leader. Examples of Fascism in action are Fascist Italy and Spain and Nazi Germany during and before WWII. I have never advocated fascism and I never will. I believe strongly in freedom, democracy, and self-reliance. These are, by the way the cornerstones of American (US) philosophy of which we are likewise very proud.
I didn't know that has ever happened. We've sent stuff there, starting in 1976, but are you sure we (i.e., Terrans) ever managed to bring samples back? And what mission was that?
Probably this was a case of the news reports being confusing. I remembered a lot of reports of "rocks from mars with life on them" which must have been the same story as the first one.
Exactly. Islam is being equated to Linux. This is something I don't want Linux to be associated with.
You do realize that Muhammed Ali was a pacifist who went to jail rather than have to kill another human being, and that he credited Islam for this conviction? I think not all followers of Islam are the same....
Thanks for that. America did not invent ...
* the computer.
Also, currently the EU has a larger GNP then America.
I will give you the military though as you seem so proud of it.
Actually I was pretty sure we did invent the computer. All the early computers, from Babbage's analytical engine to the ENIAC etc were designed in the USA. Nevertheless, I was directly referring to the personal computer which was invented by Steve Wozniac and Steve Jobs, two fine upstanding Americans.
As for the EU, well, it's not a country now is it? I think that's eventually in the cards but adoption of the Euro will be important to that and there are some difficulties. Nevertheless, I think we should ramp up if Europe has somehow overtaken us as a collective in GNP. I mean after all if we are going to top them in defense spending then we should top GNP as well.
As for the military, I am proud that that military has kept the world safe from dictators and bullies. By the way that includes keeping Europe safe after it was proven Europeans themselves could not do that. A lot of Europeans are proud of the grand social programs they have and the many investments in infrastructure their countries' governments have made. But I wonder if that would be possible if the Europeans had to even come close to paying their equal share for UN and NATO costs. You should think about that next time you want to complain about teh US being a global policeman.
website : CERN (Switzerland)
broadband : ??? ADSL - Alcatel (France)
telephone : Bell (Canada)
Big Mac : who gives a shit (USA)
Just love those crappy posts who seem to score on Slashdot... you just have to wonder what they are smoking !
I'll give you the web. I was clearly wrong. I had conflated invention of the graphical web browser (US) with invention of the web.
I was right about US companies (AT&T and Time-Warner) coming up with broadband, however. Likewise Alexander Graham Bell was a US citizen and a patriot, so you are wrong to attribute him to Canada. Someone else expounded on this better than I could in this thread.
But hey, go invent something in your country and make them proud! That is what this is all about anyway.
No, [the telephone was] invented here (Canada).
Canadians love to claim this, but it's basically untrue. Bell was born and educated in Scotland, then he moved to London in 1867 (at age 20). In 1870 he moved to canada, and then in 1872 (just two years in canada) he moved to the US. The telephone was officially unveiled in the US, four years later in 1876. The patents for the telephone are all filed in the US.
One reason canada likes to claim the telephone as their own is because bell occasionally visited canada for long periods (as much as 6 months at a time) before he invented the telephone, and then continued to do this even after 1876. He also probably made some key discoveries in the 2 years he officially lived there. But, by this logic, scotland has more claim the telephone than canada, simply because he was there a lot more before the invention.
At any rate, he was an American citizen, and proud to be one at that.
whereas the USSR enslaved as much of the world as it could as had their friends the Nazis
You make some good points, but you *really* ought to check yourself on this one. Try telling some old Soviet tank commander, or some little old babushka that the Nazis were their friends, and you'll be lucky if you walk away from the incident. A lot of Russians hate and distrust Germans in general, and Nazis in particular, with a passion that most people find hard to comprehend. Considering the nearly 40 million Russians/Soviets that died as the result of 2 German invasions, I can't say I blame them. The USSR did a lot of horrible things, but being friends of the Nazis? Never.
The USSR was never friends with the Nazis? You do realize that had Stalin not allowed Hitler to build weapons in Soviet factories and train troops on Soviet soil that he was not supposed to have he would never have been ready to start WWII, don't you? Then there was that bit about the nonagression pact they had with one another. Oh, and there's also the fact the the USSR traded with Hitler providing much-needed petroleum products without which the war would have likewise not been possible.
Though Hitler opposed Communism, both Stalin and Hitler ran similar regimes. They befriended one another in order to carve up Europe. Yes, it went sour for them, and I am sure the Soviet tank commanders did not like the Germans after that even if they had liked them before (hint, there are centuries at least of animosity between Russia, Ukraine, Poland, and Germany, and for good reason). But the USSR and the Nazi regime were indeed friends and helped one another enslave the people of Europe.
When the allies defeated Hitler, Stalin made sure that he would not lose his gains. Eastern Europe was under Soviet domination. But wait, there is more. The Soviet states were actually under Russian domination the whole time, and the USSR gained several states.
Speaking of which I think you will find that the majority of Soviet losses were in fact losses from nonRussian states, most of all from Ukraine. Ukraine fought on three sides at least in the war. There were Ukrainian SS troops fighting for the Germans, Ukrainian Red Army troops fighting for Stalin, and Ukrainian partisans fighting for Ukraine. It all added up to a lot of Ukrainians being killed in battle besides the massive civilian casualties. The civilians were starved and attacked by all sides.
The tale in other Soviet states is very similar. In addition vast numbers of the native populations were deported to Siberia. As for the Red Army losses, these were exacerbated by Stalin's refusal to accept escaped POWs or any form of retreat. Sometimes the troops who were goading units into battle with orders to shoot any Red Army soldier who came back were better equipped than those who were fighting.
Now that I think about it, it probably was disengenuous to say it the way I did because it might imply that the average Soviet citizen liked and approved of what was happening. That is certainly not the case. Stalin is the real culprit here. But that is just it. You get the US or you get Stalin. Personally I think the US way is better. And trust me, as much as I dislike Bush, I prefer him to Putin just as much as I would have FDR to Stalin.
It seems to me that historically success of Jewish people in societies (which incidentally leads to them contributing positively to a given society) is met with jealousy and a fear that "they are taking over."
I would feel like somebody was taking over if they bulldozed my home.
Wow, Wyoming is getting more desolate every day! Oh wait... those were pictures of ISRAEL. Yes, I think it is safe to say the Israelis are taking over Israel. [sarcasm] Oh my god, what will this world come to next! Those conniving motherfuckers! [/sarcasm]. Now what does this have to do with Jews taking over the world again?
Tell my boss that.
2000: He sends me a doc files. Each time I say "Don't send me doc files, I can't read them. RTF or PDF." I'm too stubborn to do whatever it takes to read doc files.
2001: He sends me a doc files. Each time I say "Don't send me doc files, I can't read them. RTF or PDF." I'm too stubborn to do whatever it takes to read doc files.
2002: He sends me a doc files. Each time I say "Don't send me doc files, I can't read them. RTF or PDF." I'm too stubborn to do whatever it takes to read doc files.
2003: He sends me a doc files. Each time I say "Don't send me doc files, I can't read them. RTF or PDF." I'm too stubborn to do whatever it takes to read doc files.
Guess how 2004 is shaping up? Hint: he sent me a doc file this morning.
You think that is bad? We have project managers who are in love with MSProject, and send everything in that format. Nevermind the fact no one has that on their windows desktop. I finally requisitioned that and found that everything she had been sending me could have been done in notepad and better so.
"Not too many people will tell IBM to 'go take a hike' when IBM wants something in another format"
Ummm...you underestimate the supremecy of the customer, IBM's respect for that, and any good salesperson's inclination to bridge the gap to the next sale.
"You want to charge me $5 million for a mainframe by sending me a proposal that I can't read in Microsoft Office? Got take a hike!"
Last time I checked, text files were readable in MSWord, as were word documents and rtfs. PDF is also readable on Windows. Documents in all of these formats can be created with Linux applications. Most of them are open formats.
" Does OS/2 play ogg ?"
Ask Google.
Nah, ask Hotbeef. :)
God please.... I'm sick of the so-called "usability" and supposed "performance" of KDE and GNOME. I feel like I'm using some college sophomore's re-interpretation of MS Windows. If somebody came along and made a lightweight, dynamic windowing system and desktop environment for Linux, with real usability and minimalism, I'd shit my pants!
Personally, I prefer fvwm to all other GUIs. It is lightweight, easy to configure, stable, backwards compatable, and portable. It is also far more usable for me than any of the others I have tried, and that geos for KDE and GNOME as well.
seems to equate the use of linux with all the worlds best in their respective fields of expertice.
See, now, that's funny, because, to me, that commercial seems to equate Linux with a dopey sci-fi movie or one-season TV show.
What it *doesn't* equate to is the fleeting suspicion that anybody in the commercial knows anything about computers, software, operating systems, or OSS. I mean, they *might*, but you'd never know it from the commercial
Erm, the commercial is ABOUT OSS. Think about it. They say "we have this kid, his name is Linux" Linux learns everyday from the foremost experts around the world. As Linux grows he becomes stronger, faster, better, smarter. Linux absorbs everything around him. That is the essence of OSS, and that is what happens in the commercial. The idea is to get people who do not understand software to understand this fundamental fact of OSS.
Well, there is absolutely nothing to be proud of with respect to the US, or is there?
Sure there is. We have the strongest economy and the largest GNP in the world. We have the greatest technology (though I fear that may change if we do not shape up) in the world. We have the strongest military. We invented the computer you are using to connect to the website (also invented here) over the internet (invented here) using broadband (invented here) or the telephone (also invented here). Slashdot itself was invented here and is hosted here.
Another thing to be proud of with respect to the US is that our citizens clearly do care about what happens in the rest of the world, as evidenced by our work as the global police. True, we get a lot of flak over it, but the US has endeavoured to do some very good things with its technology and powerful military. If teh US was really bent on world domination, it would be a dark dark world indeed. But Americans don't want to dominate the world, they want other people to live free like we do. Nothing illustrates this better than what happened in WWII, where every country occupied by the US ended up being a liberated democracy whereas the USSR enslaved as much of the world as it could as had their friends the Nazis.
What confuses most people, Americans included, is the actions of our government in recent decades. There are clearly people in our government with Imperialist attitudes about things, and right now those people are more powerful than ever before, more popular, and more arrogant. So we have a serious chance of losing what makes us great right now. This is why ordinary Americans need to recall why we are proud to be Americans. Step up to the plate, speak out, and say no to those who seek to dominate other human beings.
ZOG as in Zionist something something... shit people say things I write are conspiratorial, but man those liberty forums they have the right frame of mind... Run /.'ers
ZOG as in Zionist Occupation Government, a favorite pejorative of militias and white supremacists to refer to the Federal Government. Actually there are t-shirts you can get which have ZOG and black helicopters on them, if you wanna mess with people.
I was reading about an FBI raid on some white supremacist terrorists trying to act out _The_Turner_Diaries_ and apparently they changed out of their FBI uniforms and into uniforms that said ZOG. I have mixed feelings baout them doing this. On the one hand, it is probably a joke in poor taste, and they are no longer identifying themselves as the FBI. But then again given their audience, I guess they were appropriately identifying themselves in this case.
I really don't see how anyone gets the idea that Jews run anything outside of perhaps the Knesset, Mossad, and the IDF. It seems to me that historically success of Jewish people in societies (which incidentally leads to them contributing positively to a given society) is met with jealousy and a fear that "they are taking over." The sooner we get rid of people with such a mentality, the better. Maybe we can ship them to Saudi Arabia? :P