ASP with Java Middle-Tier
on
ASP or JSP?
·
· Score: 2
If you're a Java lover but you're forced to use ASP, you can put your business logic into Java classes and call them from your ASP pages! That way the suits will be happy, and you'll still be doing most of your coding in your language of choice (Java). Here's a great article that shows you how to do that. It's quite easy! http://www.4guysfromrolla.com/ webtech/080999-1.shtml
A bit of advice from a guy who's learned it the hard way.... no matter what language you're coding in, your ASP or JSP tier should just be a thin "glue" to hold together the objects that contain yer bizness logic. Those objects can be either compiled DLL's or Java classes, it really does not matter- just as long as you keep it out of your ASP and JSP pages where it's ugly and not very reusable. With prior proper planning, you can create a set of middle-tier objects that will make your ASP/JSP pages a snap to code.
IMHO, the ASP/JSP tier should be so thin it really shouldn't make too much of a difference whether you use ASP or JSP. The meat of your code should be in the middle tier. I haven't done any real work in JSP, so I can't directly compare it to ASP, but I would agree that Java is a nicer language than VB to code in, so it's a good choice for your middle tier logic objects.:) Good luck on your project!!!!:)
hahaha... he said, "For example, we would allow our logos to be used on a porn site."
I'm assuming he meant to say that they would NOT allow that. But that's exactly how his statement appeared in his email to me, I cut-and-pasted and double-checked it. I'm sure it was a typo on his part.:)
Well, I replied to Scott and he replied again with some clarification. Especially interesting is the part where he says, "we only want to deal with fan sites. And we expect them to have attorneys". I'm not making this up. Read below to see it in context...
My 2nd Email...
First of all, thanks for the response. Okay, let me put down my flaming torch and pitchfork.
Now, here's what the document says... "You may not use the Marks in a derogatory or defamatory manner, or in any negative context. Such use will terminate your license to use the Marks." "You may not use the Marks in a manner that is likely to cause confusion with, dilute or damage the reputation or image of Apogee or any of its products. "
Now suppose Duke Nukem Forever finally gets released, and I put a reivew up on my website. The review has a "Duke Nukem Forever" logo next to a caption that reads "This Game Is Horrible". The rest of the page contains a negative review of the game. Now, that would seem to be using the Mark in a negative context. So wouldn't it be violating the "agreement"? Please explain.
As for "lay people" not understanding this document... well, just remember- that's your target audience. If everyone is misunderstanding the agreement, perhaps maybe...I dunno... the agreement might need a little clarification? As a computer programmer, I'm well aware of the fine line between making something easy to use/understand and dumbing it down to the point where it becomes useless... but I think it's part of your job. I know it's part of mine.:-)
Again, thanks for the response and clarification... and maybe the clarification should be on the website?
Sincerely,John Rose
His response (I have italicized the parts he quoted from my mail)
Now suppose Duke Nukem Forever finally gets released, and I put a reivew up on my website. The review has a "Duke Nukem Forever" logo
First off, this would be illegal, unless you had prior permission. You cannot use trademarks without the owners permission. That's why we want to give fan sites permission, otherwise they cannot legally use own logos/trademarks and such. Review sites won't be dealing with us, only fan sites.
next to a caption that reads "This Game Is Horrible". The rest of the page contains a negative review of the game. Now, that would seem to be using the Mark in a negative context. So wouldn't it be violating the "agreement"? Please explain.
Well, what we might need to make more clear is that reviews are not what concern us. It's using our logos next to overly foul, abusive, racist, etc. language or art. For example, we would allow our logos to be used on a porn site.
As for "lay people" not understanding this document... well, just remember- that's your target audience.
Actually no -- we only want to deal with fan sites. And we expect them to have attorneys, at least all the major sites that make revenues from banners.
Hmmm........... interesting response! I still don't think the agreement is very clear, but perhaps that's because I'm not a lawyer. -John Booty
There may be a misunderstanding here. I wrote to the address at the bottom of the "Intellectual Rights" page on their website, and got a response from their PR guy. I'll post my letter and his response below. He called me a "clueless moron"...heheheh... well, maybe my email WAS a little carried away.:)
My original message:
I just read your terms of use.
http://www.3drealms.com/policy/index.html
I've bought several of your games in the past (Duke Nukem 1,2, and Duke Nukem 3D)
I would like you to know that there is absolutely no way I would EVER consider spending money on your company while these terms are still in effect. These "Intellectual Rights" are a total joke. You are shitting on the Constitution, and making yourself look like idiots in the process. How dare you restrict what I say about you? You do not deserve my money.
The sad thing is, the talented programmers at your company are going to suffer because of this legal tripe some lawyer felt obligated to put in..
Sincerely, John Rose
His response:
I must say this is just entirely too funny. And a sad commentary on how little most people understand law.
I will say that anyone who thinks we are trying to control reviews and such are clueless morons. Legally, that's impossible -- but then, most people know less about law than they do making ice.;-)
This policy/agreement simply allows fan sites to use our trademarks and copyright character art, etc. Most developers/publishers do not allow this at all. End of story. We are providing a way for them to do so, though.
Lay people, of course, read this policy and become panic mongers. Oh so typical in our society. hee hee
Sheesh! Back to important work...
Scott Miller Apogee Software, Ltd. and 3D Realms Entertainment http://www.3drealms.com
I think Javascript is a sloppy programming language. I don't think it's good for beginners (or anyone for that matter).
Why?
You've got two languages in one page (javascript and HTML)... I've been programming for years, and it's a little confusing to me! You need to have a really good grip on HTML (not the hardest thing in the world, I know) before messing with Javascript
I don't think there's a good IDE out there for Javascript. Programming is a lot easier with a good IDE, you can set watches and step through code to get a good feel for what's going on 'behind the scenes'.
Javascript works differently on like, every single version of every single browser. I don't think you want to break all your kid's programs just by upgrading from Netscape 4.6 to 4.61 or whatever.
I think a better choice would be Java. It's a nice, easy-to-use programming language that will teach your kid good object-oriented programming concepts. Also, you can get him/her started writing command-line programs and quickly graduate to GUIs.
I think Sun has a nice Java IDE called Forte that's available for free on their website. I played with the release candidate and found it to be cool... only problem? Total resource hog... you want at least 128MB ram to run that bastard! Perhaps later versions aren't so hoggish.
preview the cd? are u on crack? nobody with the right amount of grey matter is going to 'preview' the cd on 56k... the odds are extremely low, you really got to like the cd for you to actually buy the damn thing when you have it free regrading the give-me-a-taste propaganda in this issue is clearly risky, and unwise from the store's point of view... all i can say is, get real.. (no i do not work in any music indusry related, business, yes i use napster:)
I'm talking about 56kbps MP3's... the sound is really weak compared to a MP3 encoded at a nice bitrate like 128, 160, or 192kbps (most mp3's on the net are at 128, although I do all my encoding at 192). Now, if I had a CD for free at 128kbps (somewhat close to CD quality) it's doubtful I'd buy the CD. 56kps is another story... if you drove around town bumpin' 56kbps MP3's in your car, people would assume you had a scratchy AM radio hooked up to the subwoofers in your trunk. You could certainly preview an album at 56kpbs, but you'd have to be pretty poor/cheap/desparate to want to listen to it repeatedly at that quality!:-)
Great point... Napster (or something like it) could be used to really boost CD sales if record companies used it right. I like the idea of record companies releasing reduced-quality (56kbps?) albums on MP3 so you can preview them.
This is especially useful to the HUGE demographic of music fans who enjoy music OUTSIDE of the narrow range that's played on commerical radio.
For example, I'm a huge fan of British music, but good luck hearing any of it on the radio here in Philadelphia. I usually read British music mags, and buy albums over the net based on reviews I've read. Which sucks... because I'm buying music I've never head because there's simply no better way... at least until record companies get on the ball and let me preview albums over the net.
And I'm sorry, 15-second RealAudio clips don't cut it... RealAudio sounds RealBad. I want to hear the whole album if I'm gonna pay $18 for it. Reduced-quality MP3's are a nice solution because you can still hear the whole album well, but the quality's not good enough for anyone in their right mind to listen to it in lieu of buying the whole, legitimate album if they like it.
The sad reality is that since there's a shortage of qualified techs and programmers to fill the available jobs, it seems as though everyone who remotely knows what they're doing has been handed a job as programmer or network engineer. Couple this with the fact that most companies staff help desks with relatively low-paid, entry level people and the result is the help desks tend to be pretty clueless in my experience.
There are some good help desk people, but they're definitely the exception and not the rule. Where I used to work, the help desk was clueless, but we had to go through them for any support issues. When I wanted RAM installed in my PC, I wasn't allowed to install it myself. I had to have a help desk person present to do it. Unfortunately, not a single person from our help desk knew how to install RAM, so I had to show them. Sigh.
I don't think this issue is "overblown". It's pretty serious! For example, Amazon has that patented "One-Click Checkout" feature, or whatever they call it. Basically, once you activate that feature, you can check out your purchases with one click. No need to enter your credit card or any other info.
Either the credit card info (and other info) is stored in your cookie, or the cookie simply stores a key that references all that info in Amazon's database.
The upshot is this: if someone copies your cookie, they'd have unrestricted access to your Amazon account... they could order stuff, change your customer info, etc. Whoa, that would suck!!!
True, but merchadisers will be more willing to offer those low, loss-leaer prices if they can actualy advertise them. Not much incentive to cell a new CD at $11.99 just to get people in your store if you can't actually, uh... tell anyone about it.
There might be a downside to this plan... smaller, cooler record shops can't compete on price with the big boys (economies of scale and so forth). Sometimes the smal shops are the only places you can find independant, imported, or just plain cool music... Wal Mart's nice if you want the new Trisha Yearwood CD (ack), but what if you want the latest import Blur or Super Furry Animals single?
Re:Heck, Game Boy was slower than that
on
Dreadling Released
·
· Score: 1
But then, Wolf3d on a 3.5 MHz 65C816-based SNES was impressive too.
The AppleIIGS used the same (65C816, 3.57mhz) processor and same clock speed as the SNES, but it didn't have half the graphics chips SNES did. SNES had "Mode 7" effects that allowed for some limited scaling effects of 2-D sprites! Of course, the AppleIIGS had 256KB of RAM, so that's an advantage over SNES I guess.
"The quality is perfect - exactly that of the master DVD, cable, satellite or other digital video tape. A 3rd generation copy will look as good as the first. A 478th generation copy will look as good as the first."
No, that's not necessarily true. Most digital media is compressed with a lossy compression scheme. Otherwise, a single mintue of video would take hundreds of megabytes.
For example, copy a CD to a Sony Minidisc. The Sony MD is "digital", but the sound is compressed... it doesn't sound as good as the original. Or, keep recompressing a JPEG. Guess what? Looks worse and worse each time.
The only way a DVD-->DVHS copy would be "perfect" would be if the DVHS deck supported unencrypting the actual.VOB file from the DVD and copying it bit-for-bit onto the DVHS. Yeah, the MPAA would stand for that.
Don't be seduced by that "digital" buzzword. A 4-color animated GIF is "digital" too, but it ain't gonna replace your DVD drive or TV set. And if it does, I'm not watching the Super Bowl at YOUR house next year.
Oh, man. Let me offer my sympathy. I love it when people don't know how to use a scrollbar. And people wonder why programmers look down on lusers at times?
I think a user has to have some sort of minimum competancy level before their opinion should be considered relevant.
Would Ford Motor Company ask a five-year old (or someone else who has no idea how to drive) if the dashboard of a car is usable enough?
I have this book, and I love it. If you're a web designer, one of the greatest uses is the ammo it provides when you're arguing a point with your client.
Everyone knows clients make some really silly requests... this book has solid arguments against some of the more annoying requests clients tend to make over and over and over again such a needless use of HTML frames, graphics-heavy pages, gratuitious multimedia, stupid "welcome" messages from the president of the company, and so on.
I can see this book paying for itself as I quote it over and over again when discussing things with my clients. Sure, *I* know frames suck 99% of the time, but it helps to have a reliable source to back me up. Neilsen's a lot more eloquent than me.
And if that doesn't work, I'll just throw the book at them. Nothing like bouncing a 400-page book off of your client's forehead. Too bad it's not hardback.:)
Yeah. Middle tier==shared library. Buzzwords suck. Leave it to marketing fools to come up with a new buzzword to make it sound like they just invented something that's been around since the beginning of time....
Well, we're talking about how to great around a bottleneck here, and the bottleneck is dynamically generated pages. I don't think the answer to solving a bottleneck is to rely more heavily on the bottleneck itself!!!
If a PHP script has to be re-compiled each time it's needed, that's why it's a bottleneck. What's faster, compiling a PHP script 1,000,000 times for 1,000,000 website visitors, or compiling a shared library or stored procedure just once for all 1,000,000 visitors?:)
Then again... does PHP4 compile a script only once into actual executable code, or does it compile it each time it's needed (requested by a web visitor)? If it only needs to compile it once, that rocks, and it it nullifies a lot of the arguments for a middle tier between PHP and your database. And it's a great argument against ASP because ASP is either interpreted or re-compiled at run time (close to the same thing really)
What's wrong with n-tiered architecture? Aside from the fact that it's a buzzword and buzzwords suck... it's a way of structuring your app so that it's maintainable. In any good code, you should centralize your logic whenever possible...right?
No matter what you call it, the goal is to move logic and CPU-intensive tasks OUT of the scripting language that generates your web pages, and INTO some sort of code that is fast,centralized,and maintainable. Take it from someone who's built a lot of dynamic sites the wrong way and the good way.:P
Good question. OK, I've only worked with MS SQL server here (forgive my sins, please), but I think most SQL databases have this functionality...
The basic way to work with data on a SQL server is through a single SELECT, INSERT, DELETE, UPDATE, or some other statement. A stored procedure groups a (potentially) large number of SQL commands together and stores them on the SQL server. Basically a little program written in the SQL server's native language.
Why is this useful?
SQL statements need to be parsed and pre-processed before execution. Stored procedures are already parsed and preprocessed, so they execute much more quickly than ad-hoc SQL commands
Typically, the SQL server is on a separate box from the web server, so executing one stored procedure is much more efficient then passing many commands and result sets back and forth between boxes (or simply between processes if they're on the same box)
Any good SQL server is highly optimized for dealing with database work, and is many times faster than any script you could write to accomplish the same thing. That's why people pay so much money for 'em:P
A SQL stored procedure is a good place to centralize your logic... don't scatter complex rules throughout 100 web pages, keep it centralized for good maintenance
Like I say, all my experience is with MS SQL server. I'd to hear more about how stored procedures work w/ MySQL and other GPL databases, because I'd planning on moving into Linux development work.... hopefully soon.:)
Yeah, you're right. You could definitely consider the client to be tier of its own.
A lot of people also consider the SQL stored procedures to be part of the data store tier, but I think they're part of the middle tier. Feel free to roll your own interpretation.:P
My old company assumed that just because someone was a "web designer" and maybe knew a little javascript, they were qualified to do programming on complex web sites (e-commerce, etc.) They're not anymore qualified to do database work than any old artistically inept programmer is qualified to design a new logo for a company.
Companies need to wake up and realize that it takes two types of people to build the web: "real" programmers, and graphic designers. Of course some sites only need one or the other, and some people are talented enough to fall into both categories... but don't assume that Joe the Graphic Designer can code a linked list or a SQL statement...
The problem is that most dynamic web pages (Active Server Pages,php3,Cold Fusion,perl,whatever) are produced with scripting languages that pale in speed and functionality when you compare them with a compiled piece of executable code or a highly optimized SQL stored procedure.
Also, code is just plain ugly in ASP or those other scripting languages. You don't want to cram a lot of logic in there, because it's hard to maintain
So, the solution is to remove as much functionality as possible from your server-side scripting language. Put all of your buisness logic and CPU-intensive operations in SQL stored procedures, compiled code, or some other equivalent.
In industry buzzword-speak that's 3-tiered architecture. (Tier1: ASP,php,etc. Tier2: SQL stored procedures,compile code Tier3: the database
The end result is that your web site is a. easier to maintain and b. you're reaping the performance benefits as well:)
Slashdot Mirror
If you're a Java lover but you're forced to use ASP, you can put your business logic into Java classes and call them from your ASP pages! That way the suits will be happy, and you'll still be doing most of your coding in your language of choice (Java). Here's a great article that shows you how to do that. It's quite easy! http://www.4guysfromrolla.com/ webtech/080999-1.shtml
A bit of advice from a guy who's learned it the hard way.... no matter what language you're coding in, your ASP or JSP tier should just be a thin "glue" to hold together the objects that contain yer bizness logic. Those objects can be either compiled DLL's or Java classes, it really does not matter- just as long as you keep it out of your ASP and JSP pages where it's ugly and not very reusable. With prior proper planning, you can create a set of middle-tier objects that will make your ASP/JSP pages a snap to code.
IMHO, the ASP/JSP tier should be so thin it really shouldn't make too much of a difference whether you use ASP or JSP. The meat of your code should be in the middle tier. I haven't done any real work in JSP, so I can't directly compare it to ASP, but I would agree that Java is a nicer language than VB to code in, so it's a good choice for your middle tier logic objects. :) Good luck on your project!!!! :)
hahaha... he said, "For example, we would allow our logos to be used on a porn site."
I'm assuming he meant to say that they would NOT allow that. But that's exactly how his statement appeared in his email to me, I cut-and-pasted and double-checked it. I'm sure it was a typo on his part. :)
Well, I replied to Scott and he replied again with some clarification. Especially interesting is the part where he says, "we only want to deal with fan sites. And we expect them to have attorneys". I'm not making this up. Read below to see it in context...
My 2nd Email... His response (I have italicized the parts he quoted from my mail) Hmmm........... interesting response! I still don't think the agreement is very clear, but perhaps that's because I'm not a lawyer. -John BootyThere may be a misunderstanding here. I wrote to the address at the bottom of the "Intellectual Rights" page on their website, and got a response from their PR guy. I'll post my letter and his response below. He called me a "clueless moron"...heheheh... well, maybe my email WAS a little carried away. :)
My original message: His response:I think Javascript is a sloppy programming language. I don't think it's good for beginners (or anyone for that matter).
Why?
I think a better choice would be Java. It's a nice, easy-to-use programming language that will teach your kid good object-oriented programming concepts. Also, you can get him/her started writing command-line programs and quickly graduate to GUIs.
I think Sun has a nice Java IDE called Forte that's available for free on their website. I played with the release candidate and found it to be cool... only problem? Total resource hog... you want at least 128MB ram to run that bastard! Perhaps later versions aren't so hoggish.
preview the cd? are u on crack? nobody with the right amount of grey matter is going to 'preview' the cd on 56k... the odds are extremely low, you really got to like the cd for you to actually buy the damn thing when you have it free regrading the give-me-a-taste propaganda in this issue is clearly risky, and unwise from the store's point of view... all i can say is, get real.. (no i do not work in any music indusry related, business, yes i use napster :)
I'm talking about 56kbps MP3's... the sound is really weak compared to a MP3 encoded at a nice bitrate like 128, 160, or 192kbps (most mp3's on the net are at 128, although I do all my encoding at 192). Now, if I had a CD for free at 128kbps (somewhat close to CD quality) it's doubtful I'd buy the CD. 56kps is another story... if you drove around town bumpin' 56kbps MP3's in your car, people would assume you had a scratchy AM radio hooked up to the subwoofers in your trunk. You could certainly preview an album at 56kpbs, but you'd have to be pretty poor/cheap/desparate to want to listen to it repeatedly at that quality! :-)
They did? Ooops. Did they play anything other than Travis, Bush, and Oasis? :)
Great point... Napster (or something like it) could be used to really boost CD sales if record companies used it right. I like the idea of record companies releasing reduced-quality (56kbps?) albums on MP3 so you can preview them.
This is especially useful to the HUGE demographic of music fans who enjoy music OUTSIDE of the narrow range that's played on commerical radio.
For example, I'm a huge fan of British music, but good luck hearing any of it on the radio here in Philadelphia. I usually read British music mags, and buy albums over the net based on reviews I've read. Which sucks... because I'm buying music I've never head because there's simply no better way... at least until record companies get on the ball and let me preview albums over the net.
And I'm sorry, 15-second RealAudio clips don't cut it... RealAudio sounds RealBad. I want to hear the whole album if I'm gonna pay $18 for it. Reduced-quality MP3's are a nice solution because you can still hear the whole album well, but the quality's not good enough for anyone in their right mind to listen to it in lieu of buying the whole, legitimate album if they like it.
All I have to say is... "Slashdot, thanks."
You've once again shown why you're the best. Doing the Right Thing took a lot of guts as well as the humility to eat a little crow. Congrats. :)
The sad reality is that since there's a shortage of qualified techs and programmers to fill the available jobs, it seems as though everyone who remotely knows what they're doing has been handed a job as programmer or network engineer. Couple this with the fact that most companies staff help desks with relatively low-paid, entry level people and the result is the help desks tend to be pretty clueless in my experience.
There are some good help desk people, but they're definitely the exception and not the rule. Where I used to work, the help desk was clueless, but we had to go through them for any support issues. When I wanted RAM installed in my PC, I wasn't allowed to install it myself. I had to have a help desk person present to do it. Unfortunately, not a single person from our help desk knew how to install RAM, so I had to show them. Sigh.
I don't think this issue is "overblown". It's pretty serious! For example, Amazon has that patented "One-Click Checkout" feature, or whatever they call it. Basically, once you activate that feature, you can check out your purchases with one click. No need to enter your credit card or any other info.
Either the credit card info (and other info) is stored in your cookie, or the cookie simply stores a key that references all that info in Amazon's database.
The upshot is this: if someone copies your cookie, they'd have unrestricted access to your Amazon account... they could order stuff, change your customer info, etc. Whoa, that would suck!!!
True, but merchadisers will be more willing to offer those low, loss-leaer prices if they can actualy advertise them. Not much incentive to cell a new CD at $11.99 just to get people in your store if you can't actually, uh... tell anyone about it.
There might be a downside to this plan... smaller, cooler record shops can't compete on price with the big boys (economies of scale and so forth). Sometimes the smal shops are the only places you can find independant, imported, or just plain cool music... Wal Mart's nice if you want the new Trisha Yearwood CD (ack), but what if you want the latest import Blur or Super Furry Animals single?
But then, Wolf3d on a 3.5 MHz 65C816-based SNES was impressive too.
If you thought that was impressive, how about Wolf3D on the AppleIIGS?
The AppleIIGS used the same (65C816, 3.57mhz) processor and same clock speed as the SNES, but it didn't have half the graphics chips SNES did. SNES had "Mode 7" effects that allowed for some limited scaling effects of 2-D sprites! Of course, the AppleIIGS had 256KB of RAM, so that's an advantage over SNES I guess.
-John Booty"The quality is perfect - exactly that of the master DVD, cable, satellite or other digital video tape. A 3rd generation copy will look as good as the first. A 478th generation copy will look as good as the first."
No, that's not necessarily true. Most digital media is compressed with a lossy compression scheme. Otherwise, a single mintue of video would take hundreds of megabytes.
For example, copy a CD to a Sony Minidisc. The Sony MD is "digital", but the sound is compressed... it doesn't sound as good as the original. Or, keep recompressing a JPEG. Guess what? Looks worse and worse each time.
The only way a DVD-->DVHS copy would be "perfect" would be if the DVHS deck supported unencrypting the actual .VOB file from the DVD and copying it bit-for-bit onto the DVHS. Yeah, the MPAA would stand for that.
Don't be seduced by that "digital" buzzword. A 4-color animated GIF is "digital" too, but it ain't gonna replace your DVD drive or TV set. And if it does, I'm not watching the Super Bowl at YOUR house next year.
Oh, man. Let me offer my sympathy. I love it when people don't know how to use a scrollbar. And people wonder why programmers look down on lusers at times?
I think a user has to have some sort of minimum competancy level before their opinion should be considered relevant.
Would Ford Motor Company ask a five-year old (or someone else who has no idea how to drive) if the dashboard of a car is usable enough?
I have this book, and I love it. If you're a web designer, one of the greatest uses is the ammo it provides when you're arguing a point with your client.
Everyone knows clients make some really silly requests... this book has solid arguments against some of the more annoying requests clients tend to make over and over and over again such a needless use of HTML frames, graphics-heavy pages, gratuitious multimedia, stupid "welcome" messages from the president of the company, and so on.
I can see this book paying for itself as I quote it over and over again when discussing things with my clients. Sure, *I* know frames suck 99% of the time, but it helps to have a reliable source to back me up. Neilsen's a lot more eloquent than me.
And if that doesn't work, I'll just throw the book at them. Nothing like bouncing a 400-page book off of your client's forehead. Too bad it's not hardback. :)
Yeah. Middle tier==shared library. Buzzwords suck. Leave it to marketing fools to come up with a new buzzword to make it sound like they just invented something that's been around since the beginning of time....
Well, we're talking about how to great around a bottleneck here, and the bottleneck is dynamically generated pages. I don't think the answer to solving a bottleneck is to rely more heavily on the bottleneck itself!!!
If a PHP script has to be re-compiled each time it's needed, that's why it's a bottleneck. What's faster, compiling a PHP script 1,000,000 times for 1,000,000 website visitors, or compiling a shared library or stored procedure just once for all 1,000,000 visitors? :)
Then again... does PHP4 compile a script only once into actual executable code, or does it compile it each time it's needed (requested by a web visitor)? If it only needs to compile it once, that rocks, and it it nullifies a lot of the arguments for a middle tier between PHP and your database. And it's a great argument against ASP because ASP is either interpreted or re-compiled at run time (close to the same thing really)
What's wrong with n-tiered architecture? Aside from the fact that it's a buzzword and buzzwords suck... it's a way of structuring your app so that it's maintainable. In any good code, you should centralize your logic whenever possible...right?
No matter what you call it, the goal is to move logic and CPU-intensive tasks OUT of the scripting language that generates your web pages, and INTO some sort of code that is fast,centralized,and maintainable. Take it from someone who's built a lot of dynamic sites the wrong way and the good way. :P
Good question. OK, I've only worked with MS SQL server here (forgive my sins, please), but I think most SQL databases have this functionality...
The basic way to work with data on a SQL server is through a single SELECT, INSERT, DELETE, UPDATE, or some other statement. A stored procedure groups a (potentially) large number of SQL commands together and stores them on the SQL server. Basically a little program written in the SQL server's native language.
Why is this useful?
Like I say, all my experience is with MS SQL server. I'd to hear more about how stored procedures work w/ MySQL and other GPL databases, because I'd planning on moving into Linux development work.... hopefully soon. :)
Yeah, you're right. You could definitely consider the client to be tier of its own.
A lot of people also consider the SQL stored procedures to be part of the data store tier, but I think they're part of the middle tier. Feel free to roll your own interpretation. :P
That's so true.
My old company assumed that just because someone was a "web designer" and maybe knew a little javascript, they were qualified to do programming on complex web sites (e-commerce, etc.) They're not anymore qualified to do database work than any old artistically inept programmer is qualified to design a new logo for a company.
Companies need to wake up and realize that it takes two types of people to build the web: "real" programmers, and graphic designers. Of course some sites only need one or the other, and some people are talented enough to fall into both categories... but don't assume that Joe the Graphic Designer can code a linked list or a SQL statement...
The problem is that most dynamic web pages (Active Server Pages,php3,Cold Fusion,perl,whatever) are produced with scripting languages that pale in speed and functionality when you compare them with a compiled piece of executable code or a highly optimized SQL stored procedure.
Also, code is just plain ugly in ASP or those other scripting languages. You don't want to cram a lot of logic in there, because it's hard to maintain
So, the solution is to remove as much functionality as possible from your server-side scripting language. Put all of your buisness logic and CPU-intensive operations in SQL stored procedures, compiled code, or some other equivalent.
In industry buzzword-speak that's 3-tiered architecture. (Tier1: ASP,php,etc. Tier2: SQL stored procedures,compile code Tier3: the database
The end result is that your web site is :)
a. easier to maintain and
b. you're reaping the performance benefits as well