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Philips VCR Records MPEG On (D-)VHS tape
wfberg writes: "This Philips VCR
records and reads normal VHS tapes, but also records MPEG 2 video digitally on tape. You need 'special' tape for this though (presumably to boost philips tape sales). It sports digital-input and since it's RW and digital, this should piss off the DVD people. Since Philips owns a stake in TiVo, maybe TiVos will make tape-backups in the future? ;-)" The flip-down edit panel looks cool. I wonder how hard it would be to get FireWire out as well as in ...
This proves that Geeks can dominate any technological challenge to there genius. Were taking the world over one technology at a time and DVD is just one more link in the chain! Micro$oft is doomed because they cant compete without a monopoly, no way can they keep up wtih Linux and the Bizaar Development Theory Ofo open Source software.
Soon they'll all realize that they have to come to the Geeks with hat in hand and ask us to leave them maybe some way to run their corp. and make a living, because we own the Free Market and control Free Technology. We're the future ruling class, and the Future is NOW. It's obivous, Slashdot is the COnstitutional Convention of the 21st Century my friends, when you log on here you're stepping into a chapter in history!
A: Yes, it is possible if you make the recording in analogue mode on a VHS or S-VHS tape.
Unstated but implied is that digital recordings may not be shared. Could they be encrypted with this deck's serial number? Welcome to the future.
In the US Phillips Magnavox sells... Crap. Funai Crap. You can tell this isn't meant for the US market by the fact it has european connectors and 220v power requirements. Phillips actually makes their own VCRs still... for Europe. In the US they just sell crap.
I think it's time we begin the campaign of assassinations. We have to defend our rights and it may call for us to kill several important people. I am more than willing to do this. My rights as a human being trump the right of some fat businessman to live.
Please reply back if you are interested.
tapes have one inherent advantage over other mediums. you can insert your finger into the little holey thing and twirl. this is soooooo much a stress reliever. as such, i will always use tapes.
The above link, which is actually: file:///c:/nul/nul may crash Windows computers.
Actually, my droog, BETA did not die. It died on the consumer market because the players were too expensive and VHS had better marketing. In the broadcasting and animation industry, (such as television stations around the world, like the one I work in) BETA is the only way to go. Of course the players/recorders we use cost in excess of $50K, but VHS players (which do not have near the color abilities) aren't comparable to professional BETA VTRs and cameras.
VHS does have an alternative that is comparable, but it's S-VHS and it's even MORE expensive than BETA and is not used near as often.
Then you will have to go to the library and check out books and read them in your shack by candlelight. We will all feel very sorry for poor MrP-, who has no TV.
Either that or write your congressman. I'm sure he'll be happy to extend the NTSC deadline.
Using tapes is bad enough. Non-standard tapes -- even worse!
Wait until we see a proper DVD player with proper recording to normal DVDs that can be played in any other DVD player.
violence was the answer for the individuals who disliked Martin Luther King jr.s and Mohatmas Ghandi.
DAT is only around because of the pirate tax? hardly. It's around because it's great for live recording, and for making continuous recordings of up to 3 hour length. (just use a 90m DDS). As for the pirate tax, I own a lot of DAT equipment and trade DATs fairly heavily and to be honest it seems that we all own 'professional' equipment which is exempt from the tax, and from the copying restrictions. DAT is just a great format for a lot of things, it isn't lossy, no annoying tape flips/swaps for most things... it just works.
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Regarding your sig, I take it you have a pre-released Vestax VRX-2000, eh?.
On topic, you're partially right, DAT is for most consumers, dead, myself I own a plethora of Dat decks (Tascam DA-302 (dual well, high speed dub), Tascam DA-P1 (HQ portable), Sony M-1 (TINY!), Sony D-8(POS backup portable)) but I know this is an exception. As for digital VCRs though, how often do you really need to take the tapes to someplace other than your house? Honestly, I almost always watch my recorded material in my own home. I already own a Sony DSR20 which I use for those purposes, and I fail to see how anybody could really do anything about it. The one thing I really want though is a direct digital stream from my DirecTV, through my TiVo, and optionally into my DVTR.
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Nope, they can do that with any mpeg stream they want to. The FBI warning and such are just MPEG data encoded so that it hits one frame for 10 seconds straight.
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- A.P.
--
"One World, one Web, one Program" - Microsoft promotional ad
"Remember when the U.S. had a drug problem, and then we declared a War On Drugs, and now you can't buy drugs anymore?"
That's why DIVX is so popular.
...
Oh, wait..
beta didn't die. it's still used in almost every television broadcast facility in the nation if not world. It is only today being slowly replaced by Digital tapes (dvc, dvcpro ect) and hard drives. Beta has great image quality and is VERY hardy, can be used a million times and still look VERY crisp. LONG LIVE SONY BETA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I don't care *what* it is, widespread use or playing of MPEG movies sounds good to me!
I'm tired of seeing all these ASF files on the web that are unreadable under Linux. Microsoft even pulled their "NetShow for Linux", (even if it didn't really work in the first place) so the entire format is unsupported.
Linux already has a bunch of MPEG-1 video players, some of them more free than others, some with snazzier interfaces, and some decent MPEG-2 players as well, but I just wish people would standardize on a file format without so many proprietary codecs here. (I'm not necessarily looking forward to "MPEG4"...)
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pb Reply or e-mail; don't vaguely moderate.
pb Reply or e-mail; don't vaguely moderate.
I remember when DATs were first announced, everybody was drooling over them. Thought they would replace the cassette tape. Then we found out how much they'd cost and that you couldn't copy a tape unless you had an un-hobbled deck, which you couldn't buy very easily, and which were more expensive. They never penetrated the consumer market really. I think they're mainly used in studios now.
It's not enough to bash in heads, you've got to bash in minds. - Captain Hammer
DVHS is a bit new. It was designed to record the full HDTV bitstream bandwidth, and as such might not become popular until HDTV units starts becomming popular. I thought it did MPEG-2, maybe it depends on the unit, but this unit was not designed for home use. Recordable DVD standard CANNOT handle the maximum HDTV bandwidth, which is about 20mbps vs DVDs 10mbps.
I mentioned DHVS in posts a few months ago on slashdot and no one heard of it yet, it was mostly available as demo units to magazines and buried in a few catalogs.
The recorders available were still 1k$ SRP when I checked, that is about a third of the list price of Pioneer's Japanese-only DVD recorder.
The only significant advantages of the DVD recorders are: DVD is that it is non-contact, non-magnetic, smaller media and have random access, but the blank discs can "only" hold 6 hours maximim and still cost 30$
The reviews I've seen said that they can use standard S-VHS tapes. The info I read sometime back said that about 44 hours of standard NTSC broadcast could fit on one tape, because if the compression used.
In terms of production costs, DVD will still be cheaper for high volumes, but the MPAA would have to relent on DVHS if the "HD" DVD technology standard doesn't pan out when people demand HD movies at home. Only time will tell, there are a lot of variables that neither you nor I can pre-concieve, many we can overlook or totally mispredict which way technology goes.
Maybe my sources were wrong, it looks as if MPEG-1 might be all this unit can handle (MPEG 1 at a high but fixed bit rate can still be very nice, the tape medium probably limits the ability to use variable bit rates anyways), and that 21 hours is the max record time and you need the correct DVHS tapes for this unit (a Panasonic one was tested to take SVHS tapes and record digitally, I guess this won't be standard).
From other things I read I was under the impression that it would support Dolby Digital too.
- Digital tapes are still sequential, not random access.
- Digital tapes will still degrade with every use (though the resulting distortion will be different).
- Digital tapes are still mechanical; all moving parts must be functioning within spec for reading or writing to take place.
- Because they are sequential, digital tapes are extremely impractical for interactive software. Interactivity is one capabilities that makes DVDs so successful.
That said, digital tapes do make sense for home recording. But then, so don't hard disks...Today, 3M, the leading seller of clear adhesive strips, announced new Scotch Digital Tape Dispenser. The new dispenser comes complete with LED monitoring systems for the roll of adhesive as well as the ability to connect to the Internet for digital tape refills. The dispenser requires 3M's revolutionary Scotch Digital Tape for full digital effect, enabling it to dispense much clearer and more effective tape. The new tape dispenser will support older tape rolls, but the quality will be on par with those tape's properties. Suggested retail price for the new 3M Scotch Digital Tape Dispenser is US$199.
Seriously, is it just me or is everyone getting wowed by 'digital' this and that? Why make old analog technology digital when you can create better, cheaper, newer digital technology right from scratch? Digital, it seems, is the new marketing buzzword and people are falling for it.
Philips current slogan "Let's make things better" expresses an appropriate modesty about the current state of affairs. Like IBM, this company has always been good at pioneering innovative ideas and then marketing them to death. Maybe their confusing sub brand thing with Philips, Magnavox, Aristona and Whirlpool has something to do with it.
Be it LaserDisc players, Philips 'Yes' ALMOST PC-compatible, MSX, MSX2, CD-I or their portable phones, the list of things they tried and killed is almost endless. Even their supposed strong points, video recorders and CD players, have proven notoriously unreliable for me. And please, let the stylists be the first against the wall. Ugh, those things are ugly. On the other hand, a lot of european households are filled with virtually indestructable Philips common appliances like water cookers, microwaves and TVs and somehow they survive to keep experimenting around.
As part of the latest direction change, Philips president Cor Boonstra apparantly envisions a lot of future for home copying; First he sold Polygram records, choosing to concentrate on Philips' growing CD writer trade instead. As he said, he felt foolish producing both the copying devices and the material that would be copied with it. Now here's another interesting device for your home digital copy needs. Well, seems pretty smart.
Sounds like you have a sweet setup. The Philishave however is a pet peeve of mine. I'm not fond of electric shaving in general, but like anyone who has ever touched a Braun shaver can tell you, the Philips 3 rotating heads design is rather inferior when it comes to smoothness. I got one of those gold plated monsters as a present sometime and although I appreciated the large LCD display for battery level and the multitude of status LEDs, it took me far too much time every morning stubble. But since Philips invented it back in oh 1800 or so, they're sticking to this flawed design for ever.
Your mention of DCC made me remember some more Philips injuries over the years.. who still remembers gems like VideoPac, Video 2000, the Nino WinCE handhelds or the TriMedia processor?
I don't think DVHS is meant for standard movie distribution. As some other people have said, DVHS has been out for quite some time, but I haven't yet seen a single movie sold commercially on DVHS.
The reason: I think the movie industry is trying to set up DVHS as The Poor Man's DVD. They can use this standard to get away with never releasing commercial DVD recorders (not DVD-RAM drives here; I'm talking about set-top stuff) by claiming that you can record on these tapes now. It keeps DVD squarely in the hands of the rich corporations. Neat trick, that.
DVHS will end up working in the markets of the home video-camera owner, or the person who tapes TV shows. It will also likely thrive in the anime fansubbing community once it starts to catch on there, because of the very high quality (note that, once again, it also makes fansubbers easier for the ingrate industry to track down and pounce on).
But is this meant for commercial distribution? Very doubtful. As I said, this seems more likely to become the MPAA's proposed substitute for releasing recordable DVD than anything else.
AlphaMicro built a 68000-based machine (their first that wasn't S-100 based IIRC) which had conversion circuitry for data backup to a standard analog VCR, in 1984.
Violence worked pretty well against the Cartheginians from what I've heard. Met any Cartheginians lately? No? Guess why....
-- This and all my posts are in the public domain. I am a lawyer. I am not your lawyer, and this is not legal advice.
That was true of the first generation of DVHS records, but from the description on the Philips web site, it sounds like this one has an MPEG 2 encoder and decoder built in. And since it accepts input from DV camcorders as well, it must either transcode the DV format (basically motion JPEG) into MPEG 2, or else decode DV on playback.
Linear storage for anything is going the way of the dinosaurs. Once DVD recorders get here, and people see how much cheaper and better they are, w/much cheaper media to, that will be that. People who will buy a DVHS system (which, BTW, is hardly new; JVC has had one for more than two years that can be integrated right into a Dish Network reciever for true digital input/output) are the same ones that have a Sony Beta player mocking them on their closet shelf (like me :[). Linear is slow, non random, not good. Save your money; DVD-R will be here within a year or two.
--
I think there is a world market for maybe five personal web logs.
The main idea I've had so far is to create "brand recognition" a la Underwriters Laboratories. My working name is the Open Media Initiative.
The Open Media Initiative (OMI) would exist to analyze and certify devices and software as being free of copy protection and/or copy tracking measures. If you see an OMI logo on a product, you will know that product does not contain rubbish like CSS, Macrovision, "license authentication" systems (a la Quake 3 Arena or Half-Life), etc. By building brand/logo awareness of OMI and what OMI's goals do for the customer, it is my hope that consumers will stay away from non-OMI approved products, making them unviable in the marketplace. (Yeah, I know, a Libertarian pipe dream, but I think it's worth exploring further.)
Where the OMI's funding would come from is unclear. Manufacturers certainly wouldn't want to pay for licensing the trademarked OMI logo (at least not initially), and in fact it would probably be a poor idea for manufacturers to pay for it, as that kind of backwards leverage could easily cause OMI to become another TRUSTe.
Thoughts, anyone?
Schwab
Editor, A1-AAA AmeriCaptions
The CPTWG (Copy Protection Technical Working Group) is pushing very hard to have copy protection measures incorporated into IEEE 1394 (FireWire) devices. The idea is to prevent "unauthorized" use of digital content, no matter where you tap into the chain.
Intel has put forward a proposal for incorporating copy protection measures into IEEE 1394. There's also an organization pushing Digital Transmission Content Protection which, if Hollywood gets its way, will be incorporated into your new digital televisions by the time NTSC signals go dark in 2006.
Anyone wanna help me try to stop this garbage?
Schwab
Editor, A1-AAA AmeriCaptions
If memory serves me correctly, Beta was technically superior to VHS, but Sony's high licensing fees (compared to VHS) and poor marketing is what killed it off in the consumer market.
I believe Beta is still very strong in the TV industry, though. Anyone in the TV industry care to expand on or dispute this? (C'mon, how many of us were in the "A/V" club in high school? Some of us must have gone on to do it for a living!)
________________________
Corporate Jenga: You take a blockhead from the bottom and you put him on top...
I used those DVHS tapes before on an Alesis ADat multi track recorder. There are other choises as far as the media is concerned. These tapes are not proprietary. You do not need to buy them from Philips.
pronoblem
the word I believe you're looking for is naïvté. don't worry. it's a common mistake made by people posing as intellectuals.
Woo hoo hoo, hahahaha! That is either the most classic case of pot-and-kettle ever or a superb troll. Try naïveté. http://www.m-w.com/ is your friend.
Just hit the main menu and select the start of the movie from the scene selection menu, it's not hard to miss the previews on DVD movies . . .
This is just like television, only you can see much further.
JVC Has had a D-VHS deck out forever, and my local tower even carries the 5-hour tapes for it.
:)
JVC's was integrated into an MPEG2 sat. reciever, which was the only way to get an MPEG2 signal at the time
it's quite a cool unit.
www.dishnetwork.com has info.
-Scott
Please send all UCE to scally@devolution.com so I can f
Ummm it does does have a firewire connector.
b
AND... MOST IMPORTANTLY to skip ahead to the titty and fucking scenes, press A.B repeat when you first see breast, and again when she comes.. and let the scene repeat continually so you can jackoff.
> What do you mean "goes the way of the DAT tape"?
Essentially locked out of any consumer market. I'm not implying they're going to destroy this MPEG tape format; that would be kind of impossible. i'm implying that they're going to force it into being the equivilent of where DAT is now. Very likely they're just going to bury it and pretend it never happened.
Look at where DAT is now: like you said, they're still around, they still work great, certain small groups of people still use them extensively, they are still the best. If you really know where to look, you can get the hardware and/or tapes.
Meanwhile, your average consumer isn't aware they exist, and there are no DATs for sale anywhere other than blank ones.
So this is probably where the DVHS thing is going to go: limited to hobbyist/professional filmmakers, a couple of people who really, really care about this kind of thing, and [i hope] anime fansubbers, whereas now DAT is limited to hobbyists or professionals recording audio [esp. if they need the recording apparatus to be relatively portable], a couple of audiophiles, and concert bootleggers.
But meanwhile, if you taped something on your DVHS last night and you want to give it to a friend to watch-- well, that isn't going to happen. Just like with the dat tapes. What it will come down to is that it will be about as difficult to distribute DVHS as it is to distribute DAT. Finding anyone who is aware of either will not be easy. Meaning you'll be COMPLETELY stuck with the shitty-ass VHS and cassettes if you wanna give someone something you recorded and reuse the recording media later. *cassettes grumble grumble*
Until that time comes and it is guaranteed that the DVHS will never actually manage to gain mainstream acceptance no matter how much inherent goodness the format has, i predict anyone actually USING the DVHS to do anything will be harrassed by the MPAA and the TV/cable companies. Also the world is going to end on December 23, 2012.
-mcc-baka
--- WARNING --- THIS POST MAY BE CONTENT-FREE ---
1 8UR|\| 4LL MY |V|P3Z 70 V1NYL R3C0RDZ 83C4U53 1 L1|3 7H3 \V4RM 50UND 0F 7H3 F0R|\/|47!! PH33R!!
Irritable, left-wing and possibly humorous bumper stickers and t-shirts
Oh my goodness.. a good-quality rerecordable tape system?? That's AWESOME. It'll NEVER last.
Because now we get to watch the MPAA and all the television companies bitch like hell and throw money at congress until this thing here goes the way of the DAT tape.
Well, there seems to be an unwritten rule that wealthy corporations do not attempt to stop other wealthy corporations from doing things they'd normally scream bloody murder about, so Phillips may get away with it. Phillips seems to have gotten away with the computerless CDR-copier thing, anyway, and i doubt much of anyone is using that for anything but piracy. I dunno. let's see.
I saw no reference in the specs to MPEG-2. maybe i missed something? It says it uses MPEG-1 for the audio.. which layer? 3? Or would that be too much encoding time? can it _play_ mp3/mp2 even if it can't record?
I'm drooling thinking about any layer MPEG on a tape. VHS sound is so awful. ARRGH i wish these specs were more specific.
Hmm.. wonder how it handles the rewinds? better than DVD, you'd think?
I'm just sitting here thinking about how unbelievably cool it would be to watch a tracking error (or even better forcably speeding up, slowing down, or running backward the drive) on an MPEG-based tape. MPEG artifacts are normally interesting, but watching it attempt to read MPEG and just get random bits sloshing back and forth.. TRIPPY. My pupils are dilating just thinking about it.
-mcc-baka
Irritable, left-wing and possibly humorous bumper stickers and t-shirts
Well, they invented the CD and the compactcassette.
The tape they are using is not available for VHS.
They are using the same which they use for DV.
When other company's are going to sell the same type of videorecorder, tapes will be made by TDK and different other firms.
JVC has been selling an MPEG recording DVHS player for about 18 months now. The one from JVC has a built-in satellite receiver and records the digital stream directly from the satellite onto tape. DVHS is an industry standard, albeit an obscure and probably ultimately useless one.
I had one of these gadgets and there's not enough difference to matter one damned bit between analog and digital playback.
..is that the tape can store a movie at HDTV-resolution. DVDs can't (even double sided dual layer disc is too small).
Ahh, finally! A digital video standard that doesn't require you to view a 10-minute Tarzan trailer! :)
Bowie J. Poag
Bowie J. Poag
Not quite.
Most news segments and television shows are recorded on Betacam SP. It is *not* the same as BetaMax. Betacam has more lines of resolution, more space for audio, and comes in two tape sizes. Betacam SP is what Sony made after Betamax failed so that they wouldn't lose all of their R&D investment.
While most local news affiliates still use Betacam SP the DV formats are quickly being adopted by the major networks for news and syndicated shows.
I got mine in July 1998. I love the thing. I just use to for normal run of the mill recording. Don't have anything on the tapes I would consider to be keepers, so I don't keep anything. That is what DVD is for.
I hate the look of a VHS tape. I think we all do. And since the entire reason I got a sat dish was to have a better picture than I had on cable, I decided on this unit.
There are some problems with it - the thing wont work with HDTV broadcasts. The bitstream that it can record is wide enough (19 Mb), but Dish says it won't work. It also likes to drop the signal on the hour/half hour marks sometimes. It also will not digitally record the audio only channels off of the dish.
It is cool though to put in a tape and see exactly what came down from the satellite at a later date - including the time/date stamp and the program information.
It does require JVC DVHS tapes to do the digital stuff (you can use a regular tape also, but you can't record digital). I have tried to use SVHS tapes in the machine in place of the DVHS, but have either not figured it out or it plain won't work. The DVHS tapes are priced about what a good SVHS tape costs, so there is really no price difference. Plus, since I am using this only to time shift shows and not for permanent storage, it really does not matter to me.
Also, up at my local Best Buy, I could swear they are running a Toshiba DVHS deck into the HDTV display. That thing has been there for at least a year.
I'm assuming that since it's on a video tape it can't be all that great, can it?
It's digital. Unless you are really trolling, which I think is possible, you just don't get the concept of digital media.
The quality is perfect - exactly that of the master DVD, cable, satellite or other digital video tape. A 3rd generation copy will look as good as the first. A 478th generation copy will look as good as the first.
Incidently, if they have any patents, I'd like to point out prior art - I backed up massive amounts of Apple ][+ stuff to VCR back in 1981. -j/k-
--
Evan
"$30 for the One True Ring. $10 each additional ring!" -- JRR "Bob" Tolkien
Quality? Uhh.. it's digital.... so it'll be much better than analog.
(yes, that sounds ignorant, but I'm just glossing over the details)
If they can get an adequate data density on the tape, it can easily surpass analog VHS
I can't say for sure, but subjectively, the picture quality on a beta machine is much better then a comparable vhs machine. Right now I have a Sony beta vcr on my workbench, and even at BIII speed, the quality of the picture is far better than vhs at SP. Comparing the picture quality between Phantom Menace (which is supposed to be manufactured to THX specs) and a ten year old home made copy of Fantasia, the beta tape is by far better quality.
As far as mechanics are concerned, the beta machines are way more complicated then a comparable vhs machine. If I recall correctly, in the early eighties when there was still competiton between beta and vhs, we sold beta machines for about $100.00 more than a comaparable vhs vcr.
The real problem with beta was that there where never the same amount of titles available as ther was for vhs, especially porn.
OS/2 is not dead. It's pining for the fjords.
Ow, and the ad claimed it did MPEG 2 so that's why that ended up in the /. article. The ad was on page 6-7 of NRC Handelsblad of may 4th 2000.
Salivating Americans beware that this is a PAL (perhaps SECAM too) unit, not NTSC.
BTW this article also says that D-VHS does MPEG-2. Also mentions bitrates.
Some-one mod this up?
--
SCO employee? Check out the bounty
Unless you just copy it bit for bit, of course, which is what I think he was referring to.
See you, space cowboy...
I remember seeing ads for D-VHS years ago. A cool idea, but I wish they'd use smaller tapes. VHS tapes are so unweildly, really.
ReadThe ReflectionEngine, a cyberpunk style n
I laugh at your naivety
ReadThe ReflectionEngine, a cyberpunk style n
The true intelectuals spell everything correctly
ReadThe ReflectionEngine, a cyberpunk style n
It's only for sale in Europe, and it's being marketed as a business 'security' solution...
NOT as a home appliance, and surely not a recordable DVD replacement.
John
Both of these media have very important differences. While they both store digital video, which is a Good Thing (tm), the similarities end there. ;) )
Tape media, as everyone knows, needs to be rewound and fast-forwarded, etc... This is not nearly as convenient as several-millisecond seek times on a disk.
This will also make it impossible to use the possibility of interactive media that DVD's and other disks allow.
Not only that, but what about computer interfacing? DVD's can store both data and media, a very important distinction.
However, DVHS has some critical advantages as well. Properly developed, tape can store hundreds of times more data than a disk. (Think of the 100GB bakup tapes the size of an audio cassette.) Additionally, you can record MPEGs onto DVHS, while writing DVD's is expensive and hard (and the MPAA doesn't want you to do it
No need to refer to Sony... Video 2000 died too :)
The holes to which [s]he is referring are holes in the cassette shell. SVHS users like me have been using high-grade VHS tapes to record SVHS signals on older SVHS decks for years. The price difference between VHS and SVHS cassettes differs tremendously, even now.
Of course, nowadays it is possible to purchase SVHS decks that can record SVHS signals directly to unmodified VHS cassettes.
FWIW, regular 8mm cassettes can be used to record Hi8 signals, with no difference in quality, in much the same way. Buy Sony MP tapes, compare the pre-punched-out holes in that tape with an Hi8 MP cassette (Metal Particle, not Metal Evaporated), and punch the hole out with a pushpin. Wiggle the tape a bit, and the plastic falls out of the hole without a hassle.
< tofuhead >
It is still the dark of night.
Hole punches for converting VHS cassettes to SVHS cassettes have been available in the past. I don't know where to get them (I punch the holes with nails...carefully =), but there were plenty of ads for them in the back of Video magazine, back when that publication still existed (when I still read home theater a/v mags...shit, I was such a dork when I was 14).
And you may be thinking about those hole punches that made double-sided 5 1/4" floppies from single-sided disks. I had one of those things too...but scissors often worked better. =)
< tofuhead >
It is still the dark of night.
Beta was technically superior to VHS
That is a myth.
Do a search of google for "betamax myth" (without the quotes).
quote:
3) "Betamax failed in spite of the fact that it was a superior technology."
False. Comparisons between VCRs with similar features showed no significant differences in performance. In fact, most of the differences could only be seen with sensitive instruments, and likely would never show up on most consumer grade television sets. . In particular, the qualitative differences between the two formats were less than the differences between any two samples from the same manufacturer. It was only the later (and more expensive) versions of Beta which noticeably improved the quality, as commercial and broadcast outlets turned to Beta as a standard. In fact, at that time Beta was an inferior technology because VHS allowed for longer recordings. Early beta technology allowed for one-hour recordings, while VHS allowed two hours.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Comment removed based on user account deletion
They say their tape is alot like a SVHS tape except for two addtional holes... I wonder if I get out my drill I can make myself some DVHS tapes to work with the vcr... Just like in the olden days using a hole punch to make double-sided disks.
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I don't really mind double posts on
All modern unixes have shadowed passwords.
Bitchslapped? Give Rob a bitchslap from bitchslapped.com.
ROFLMAOASTSOOTC!
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"Rex unto my cleeb, and thou shalt have everlasting blort." - Zorp 3:16
Sacred cows make the best burgers.
Well, I think you're on the right track. But there is one problem with that: hard drives crash!
I don't think something like what you are describing ("hard drives on a centralized server") would be viable until hard drives get rid of their last moving parts... I mean, sure, you have your various RAID solutions, etc, but you still have to pay to keep replacing the drives, and that gets pricey, especially for hobbyists who can't afford a data center to store their music and movies.
The good thing about these digial tapes is that besides being cheap, (well, cheaper than, say, writable DVDs or a RAID array) you don't see the same degredation you do with conventional analog recordings. That said, I do think the technology has some good uses and shouldn't be disregarded as backward and ancient, as VHS probably should be. =)
Regarding DVD; personally, I like the format, I just wish it was free of the bureaucracy and greed that makes it a problem for some... but hey, that's probably more of a societal issue, anyway, and that is a whole different thread...
I'm thinking that the "special tapes" they are selling are normal vhs tapes, but just a lot longer than the ones we usually see. Normally with a T-120 tape, you'd get 2 hours (120 min) in SP mode, or with a 240, you'd get 4 hours. They are selling DF-420 tapes, which give you 7 hours in SP mode, and 21 hours in the SLP mode. The reason you don't see many tapes this long on normal analog VCR's is because the longer tapes would degrade in quality a lot faster with normal use. Of course, there is not much loss in quality with a digital signal. The major difference between this and DVD's is that with DVD's you can scan to any point on the disc in a matter of seconds. With tapes, you would have to rewind or forward, which would take a while. But then again, this isn't a very big loss since most of us watch our movies in a linear fashion in the first place. This is a great way to back up our "rented" dvd's ;-)
VHS = analog
D-VHS = digital
now, what?
When are they gonna learn that tape-based mediums are obsolete? No one wants to rewind or fast-forward or deal with the physical tape wearing out.
I hate tape.
Do a search of google for "betamax myth" (without the quotes).
Followed your advice and got (apparently) to the same site you got. Wow. It also mentions that the real cause for VHS popularity began with porno movies...
Ok, raise your hands (the free one, anyway) those of you who feel vindicated somehow...
(unless I misread the whole thing, in wich case, I feel pretty stupid).
Site at http://www.urbanmyths.com/brands_beta.html
Regards
Go ahead and jump! Ten thousand lemmings can't all be wrong.
Hate to burst everyone's bubble but JVC has had a DVHS VCR out for over 2 years now. It is intergrated into a DISH Network satelite reciever. (I know this because I have one.)
It records 5 hours on to a DVHS tape. Yes it does do MPEG2 (MPEG2/DVB) and not MPEG1.
You can check it out here.
44.4GB capacity @ 14.1MBps...kinda wish I could refit it for backups!
Wasn't D-VHS supposed to be commercially available several years ago? I heard about it only shortly after DV was announced - way before recordable DVDs. I'm not sure this system (good as it may be) has much of a chance against the established digital recording media. Since most video enthusiasts already have high-quality (S)VHS tape recorders, the ability to play back analog tapes is a nice gimmick, but not the most important thing. DCC was also able to play back analog audio cassettes, and it wasn't much of a success. If the price isn't considerably lower than DV or DVD-R(W), D-VHS won't last long.
Cthulhu fhtagn!
Apparently, according to the specs page, it's MPEG 1, not MPEG 2... hardly the same quality compression as MPEG 2.
-- "Those who cast the votes decide nothing. Those who count the votes decide everything." -Joseph Stalin
This may come as a shock, but the world is analog.
All mediums are analog.
tell that to heisenburg (sp?)
So you can record digital quality on tape. Well, so what? I watched my last VHS tape about 3 months ago when my roommate bought a DVD player. I don't think I can watch VHS anymore. Now this is mainly because of the digital picture and 5.1 sound, but there is more.
There is a reason CDs won out over tape for use with computers. Seek time! With a DVD (or any digital Video disk format that comes out in the future) you get the great ability to jump to any point in the movie, jump to the special sections, not have to rewind, etc.
Now unless these tapes are CONSIDERABLY cheaper, there is no way I'm going to consider them over DVDs. (I expect recordable digital video disks soon)
Mmmm.. Donuts
Tapes died compared to disks. (My first ZX Spectrum used audio tape to store data). So will this. It's THAT much slower. You can't jump around in tapes and you have to rewind. Arguably, you don't want to do that as much with movies as you want to with data, but you still want to be able to jump to an arbitrary point in the movie and unless this is much cheaper, I'm not rushing to stores to buy one.
Mmmm.. Donuts
JVC released a DVHS VCR over a year ago that did the same thing. It had a built-in DiSH Network receiver, and would record the MPEG-2 digital video stream to the tape. I don't know if it had a digital input, however.
I've built up so much character I have an alter-ego
Or I can DOWNLOAD a choice MPEG using Gnutella and watch it on my TV.
Not like I would spend the dinero for first-generation though...
Beta died; so will this. It's THAT different..
Mike Roberto (roberto@soul.apk.net) -GAIM: MicroBerto
Berto
Remember, in the video world at least, digital may not be better. It is still a matter of bandwidth.
"Well, good luck finding a judge that doesn't run a bestiality site."
What's the point of this technology? Its not random access and its a magnetic medium. Useless.
I'm old enough to remember those days in the early 80's (At least I think it was at that time) when we had three vcr standards. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought that the reason that the Philips Video 2000 standard lost to the technically inferior VHS and Betamax standards, was that the tapes were called VCC tapes and the system 'Video 2000'. In my marketing education this was listed as a classic marketing mistake, all those customers who didn't see any Video 2000 tapes, only VHS, Betamax and VCC tapes.
This type of edit console is mainly intended for the "prosumer" market, which is to say local cable affiliates, college campuses, & small independent videomakers who can afford waveform monitors, higher-end cameras with built-in test patterns/time base correction, and all that other Max Headroom tech.
Like S-HVS, 8mm and SuperBetamaxTM), these units are obscure and in some cases "obsolete" to the average joe over at Circuit City, but for regional cable stations, this is how their bread & butter are earned.
The MPEG-2 is roughly equivalent to the D-2 standard of video editing, which also uses "digital" tape; Phillips is no doubt counting on this as their lower-cost alternative, as well as a means of gaining an edge over with Sony & Matsuschita.
I don't understand how the region coding is supposed to protect against what they don't want anyway. After all, if I live outside the US and buy a dvd palyer, it won't be coded for my region, it wil be blank, then I can only change the region a limited number of times.
So I could own a U.S. dvd player anywhere in the world.
They're called, oddly enough, TAPE DRIVES!
Tape Drives at KillerApp
DCC was supposed to be cross compatible with the old compact casette while bringing new digital qualities.
That did not stay as a product, so why should this? I kind of view this as taking the DCC approach to video.
I wonder if the VHS is the same as this with the addition to the holes. If so then who is going to make a hole punch.
Reminds me of the days when people would punch low density disk to make them hd disks. Only thing is the hd disk were not coated the same. I wonder... hmmm.
MrNick
Encryption: I may not agree with what you say, but I will defend your right to encrypt it...
[S|He]'s saying that this media probably is the same as regular VHS media except with a few small holes at some point in the tape.
:)
If you look at the beginning and end of DAT tapes for computers, you'll see that there are small holes there through which the drive shines a light. On the other side of the tape, there is a light sensor. When it senses the light, it says "Ah, beginning of tape." or "Ah, end of tape."
3.5" High-density disks store 1.44MB of data. Double-density disks store 720K. (720K * 2 = 1.44MB) The only difference between the two types of disks is that the 1.44MB disks have this extra hole in the upper-left corner. Your disk drive shines a light through that to see if it's a DD or HD disk. So, some people started to punch out that hole on DD disks and turn them in to HD disks, doubling their capacity. (Useful for 720K AOL disks.)
Now, for these tapes, there will probably be some sort of pattern of holes in the beginning and/or end of the tape, telling the unit that it is a digital tape. With the right tools, and knowing where to put the dots, assuming that the tape is the same material, we could turn ordinary, cheap VHS tapes in to high-quality, expensive digital tapes. Of course, then it would quickly be posted on a webpage, sent to Slashdot, and then Phillips would fix it. Sort of like the iOpener. Geesh, gotta keep that stuff underground!
Hmm...coherent enough?
Withdrawal before climax is very ineffective and those who try this are usually called "parents."
Wasn't Philips one of the companies involved in the creation of DVD?
I'm assuming that this is where the "special" tape comes in, but how is the quality on this thing? I'm assuming that since it's on a video tape it can't be all that great, can it?
Also, if it's any good, where can I get a MPEG video camera that records on this tape? =)
-- Dr. Eldarion --
It's not what it is, it's something else.
Maybe I should have been a little clearer... it's just that I've had some really nasty experiences with tape (video/audio/you name it), and assumed that those problems would also be present in this kind of tape...
-- Dr. Eldarion --
It's not what it is, it's something else.
while writing DVD's is expensive and hard (and the MPAA doesn't want you to do it ;) )
... and I'm sure that they love the thought of DVHS becoming a standard...
-- Dr. Eldarion --
It's not what it is, it's something else.
A 3rd generation copy will look as good as the first. A 478th generation copy will look as good as the first.
This is not true. MPEG2 is a lossy compression CODEC, just like MP3 for example. This means that quality is lost at every compression cycle. A 478th generation copy will probably look pretty horrible...
Unless you just copy it bit for bit, of course, which is what I think he was referring to.
Ok, this is getting a bit OT but as far as I know the recorder has no digital output. Even if it would, the digital out would carry the uncompressed signal (not the raw bits). Since this signal has already gone through the decompressor the quality loss is unavoidable. Copying raw bits would be cumbersome at least.
Anyone remember DCC? This was Philips failed attempt to do to cassette tapes what they are now trying to do with the VHS format, which is use the same tape and transport formats and switch the encoding format to digital. I suspect DVHS will fare as well as DCC did.
Jeff
Trust me this has nothing whatever to do with the cracking of DVDs, it was developed a long time ago by JVC. This is JVCs technology, their player is already available, Phillips only have a preliminary spec. The Phillips preliminary spec looks identical to the JVC spec.
Everyone who makes a DVD player licences the technology from the DVD consortium who own the patents. Everybody who makes a VHS player licences the technology from JVC, they developed it, they own the rights.
JVCs patents are about to expire, so this is an update that they hope will become as popular as "vanilla" VHS and make them as much money.
If you're interested, the picture quality is stunnning almost indistinguishible from broadcast quality. It also has the advantages of being backwardly compatible with standard VHS and SHVS, it can record in those modes, so you can exchange tapes with family friends etc. It is also has vastly greater storage capacity than DVD.
The only drawback that I can see is that there is no way to extract MPEG data from the player. It always converts to to a video signal :-(
This may well be the video archive media of the future, when it drops from it's rediculously overpriced "early adopter" price, I'll probably buy one :-)
There are problems, though. I keep hearing about how the US standard for HDTV sucks and the broadcasts don't work very well (people who live behind large buildings can't get any reception at all) so this all may change. Actually, bet on it...
I dont have a
Macrovision prevents quality copies over the analog RCA outputs regardless of whether the recording medium is an analog VCR or converted to digital. No? - While I know most DVD players offer digital audio output for input into todays better amplifiers but I've never seen digital video out offered on a DVD player.
Q: Is there such thing and if so, until now, what purpose could it possibly have served?
--Aaron Greenberg
Enter gynae^H^H^H^H^Hcontent availability. It is rather sad, but VHS got carried by adult content availability, because Phillips refused to release non-family titles.
DVHS's saving grace may well be that this thing will play existing VHS tapes. The so-called "specs" at the Web site weren't clear on whether or not the US edition would be able to play European PAL videos. If it would, the player might very well get a lift from the huge numbers of Americans taking souvenir videos back home from Europe.
Bert Driehuis -- All I asked was a friggin' rotatin' chair. Throw me a bone here, people.
Well, maybe I'm not a true geek, but I pop a tape in, hit Play, Fast Forward to skip the FBI warning, maybe Stop on the way to get a fresh beer, and finally Rewind when the flick ends (by which time I am definitely ready to go take a leak while the tape rewinds).
In contrast, DVD requires you to take a leak while the FBI warning is playing, and the shadow of the region coding still looms over it.
Speaking of which, has anyone yet filed a complaint at the WTO over this illegal market compartmentization? The excuse of protecting the European first openings against early imports from the US sort of falls flat on its face when you see titles from 1934 with region coding.
Bert Driehuis -- All I asked was a friggin' rotatin' chair. Throw me a bone here, people.
and in Grateful Dead taping circles, too. ;-)
--
--
"It is now safe to switch off your computer."
Doesn't Windows crash enough without any help? I had to click on it and see for myself. Knowing my curiousity I probably would have clicked on it if the warnings had been "above link formats your harddrive". - - -
Me a troll, me no gnome, me smash ye head and break ye bones.
I tried every button on the remote control and...I had to sit through ten minutes of trailers, thinking very evil thoughts about what I would like to do to Michael Eisner and the marketing geniuses at Disney.
Marketing geniuses...yeah, right. I'm hoping that people will start spreading word about these abuses and the sales of Disney DVDs drop. Then, maybe Disney will smarten up.
Meanwhile, I've noticed another DVD problem... Almost all of the movies available are in widescreen format only. So, most people (like myself) who own normal TVs, will get a tiny little letterboxed picture. Sometimes it's tolerable, with a 1.78:1 aspect ratio, but other times, it's horrid! The X-Files movie, Fight the Future, was transferred to DVD with a 2.35:1 aspect ratio! That's ridiculous! Even a widescreen TV will show a letterboxed picture with an aspect ratio like that!
Some movie studios include a pan-'n-scan version of the movie (reformatted for normal TV sets) on the disc, as well, but most don't. And those that don't try to justify it by saying things like this, on the back of Eyes Wide Shut, "This film is presented in its original format, as Stanley Kubrick intended." I don't care what Mr. Kubrick wanted; it looks like crap on my TV. I'm not made of money; I don't have a 5000-dollar widescreen projection set (which is what they seem to think most people have...)!
So, maybe DVD isn't for me? Well, why are the electronics companies and movie studios pushing it so much? They want everyone to be renting and buying movies on DVD instead of VHS. If that's the case, they should do something so that we all can enjoy them.
Don't get me wrong... Otherwise, I like DVD. That picture might be really small, but it's way sharper than any videotape, and the fact that the movies are on a disk like a CD instead of a tape makes them seem more "permanent." I'm also glad my player can output an anamorphic picture. That'll come in handy in the future, when widescreen TVs come down in price. But for now...
Like I said, I want DVD. But, I also want to enjoy with it my equipment. And if the movie studios don't stop these abusing the ability to lock out the navigation controls (re: 10-minute trailer to sit through) and start catering to normal-TV users, at least until widescreen TVs become cheaper and more common, the DVD market will either grow really slowly, or just wither and die.
Well, that was quite a long rant. I just regret that you're the only one that'll read it, now that this story has moved off Slashdot's front page and is now only accessible via the "search" page. The next time Slashdot does a DVD- or digital-video-related story, I'll post this again, to see if I can get more responses. I'll be sure to mention the 10-minute unskippable trailers on Disney DVDs, too. Thank you for reading my comment.
I sure hope no one thinks Beta died just because it didn't have enough dirty movies for its format.
A much better and more accurate rundown of Beta's rise and fall is available here.
The "urban myths" link you pointed has got to be wrong. Why would any movie company have to approach JVC or Sony to get permission to release movies on VHS or Betamax? JVC's and Sony's licensing schemes don't work like that! You need a license to manufacture VCRs or tapes for their format, not to release movies! I could pick up a few spanking new DVHS decks and a truckload of blank tapes and start cranking out my own DVHS porno movies and I certainly don't need Philips's or JVC's permission to do so.
One thing the link may be right about is the picture quality differences between the formats and the different tape lengths. But it conveniently leaves out an important detail...
The standard recording speed on VHS is SP and runs at 3.33cm/s. The standard recording speed on Beta is BII and runs at only 2cm/s. The picture quality is the same, yes, but Beta is able to record the same picture quality with less tape!
And about the tape lengths... A VHS T-120 is two hours long on SP, but while Beta L-750 tapes advertised only 90 minutes recording time on the BI speed, remember that BII is the standard, which doubles the tape length to three hours. Which is the "inferior technology" with the "shorter tape length" now??
The longest tape length for VHS available during the '80s (when the two formats were sparring) was a T-160, which gives 2 hours and 40 minutes. The longest Beta tape was an L-830, which gave 3 hours and 20 minutes.
Of course, this was only good for prerecorded tapes. If you wanted to squeeze as much material on a tape as possible, you could switch a VHS machine to EP and record 6 hours (T-120) or 8 hours (T-160). But a Beta could only drop down to BIII and get 4.5 hours (L-750) or 5 hours (L-830).
This makes me wonder why Beta used the same 1:1, 1:2, 1:3 ratios for tape speeds as VHS did. It would have made more sense to use 1:1, 1:2, and 1:4. With the slowest tape speed four times slower than the fastest, it would be able to fit 6 hours on an L-750 and 6 hours and 40 minutes on an L-830. Although the longest Beta tape length still wouldn't beaten the longest VHS tape length, it would have at least stood a better chance, due to the "standard" tape lengths (T-120 and L-750) being much more prevalent.
It's worth noting, as long as anyone is still reading this long-winded discussion about tape lengths, that in order to fit more tape into a cassette once the reels are full, the tape must be made thinner. The "original" VHS tapes were T-120s like we have today, and the tape was made thinner to make a T-160. The tape thickness of an L-750 is the same as that of a T-160, and considering that thinner tape is more prone to stretching, crinkling, and breaking, one can see that Beta tapes really couldn't get much longer. An L-1000 Beta tape (4 hours on BII, max. 6 hours on BIII to match a T-120) has finally been invented and can be bought from Absolute Beta, but it's only used by hobbyists.
Also, in case anyone cares, here's the deal with why that Beta machine in your closet or attic only does BII and BIII but not BI: Sony doesn't want you to record on BI because that think that will make the tapes look too short. Originally, BI was the standard, but when RCA and JVC rolled out VHS's LP and EP speeds in the late '70s, Sony knew they'd have to do something. Remember that video cassettes were really expensive then. So, in 1979, Sony decided that BII was the new standard and that all commercial Beta videos should be recorded in that speed. BI recording capability was discontinued. It was later reintroduced in a slightly evolved as "BIs" form on the higher-end SuperBeta machines in starting in 1986, and later in a further-evolved form called BI-SHB (Super Hi-Band) so as to appeal to power users. The only real difference was that its pre-emphasis/de-emphasis curve now matched that of BII and BIII.
Anyway, that was pretty long-winded, wasn't it? But this discussion of tape speeds and like always fascinates me.
Anyway, I'm afraid I don't have any hard proof about the picture quality except my word and everyone else's. However, I can say that given the business with the "standard" tape speed for each format (SP (1:1) and BII (1:2)), try seeing if material recorded in LP (1:2) matches BII (1:2). I've tried, and I can say that it definitely isn't as good. As for BI/BIs/BI-SHB (1:1) vs. SP (1:1), I can say that I was able to copy a segment of a DVD to my Beta machine in BIs, and picture quality looked almost as good as that of the original disc! Using BII (which we have established is practically equal to VHS's SP), the picture looked a little grainy and colour reproduction wasn't as faithful. Well, then, I guess I know what the outcome of a BIs vs. SP comparison would be. I'll have to try a real DVD to VHS SP copy sometime, of course...
Well, that's quite a lot I've written. I thank you if you're still reading. And if you were one of ones who bought VHS in the '80s and sneered at your Beta-using friends, don't worry. Even if you disagree with all that I've written, there's no need to defend VHS's honour. It won the format wars! That's all I have to say about that! (I was a VHS user in the '80s who sneered at Beta users, but in 1990 I got a Beta machine at a garage sale, and I got converted. Rather bad timing though, eh?)
I don't know if I want to post all this, but I might as well since I've taken the time to write it...
The new copy protection scheme is actually quite a bit different from that of DVDs. It is non-CSS, proprietary, and (they say) stronger. Does this mean they won't leave keys exposed in commercial decoders?
Personally, I'm anti-DVHS. It's proprietary. It was basically invented as a means to restrict freedom now that DVDs have been cracked. It is linear, NOT random-access. It can't be used in computers without specialized, expensive equipment. Would you get a heavily encrypted digital cassette player in leiu of CD or MP3 hardware? Didn't think so. Once DVD-R comes down in price, it'll be clear what the superior format is.
Anonymous Luddite: "What do you think of the dehumanizing effects of the Internet?"
Andy Grove: "Not Much."
think about this, and before it the artical of the NY Times printing hyperlinks into printed text, even more intergration with the physical world. yeah it might seem like a step backwards. mpeg2s on tapes, but think of it this way. Its backwards compatiblity that no one bothered to add until now
"The quality is perfect - exactly that of the master DVD, cable, satellite or other digital video tape. A 3rd generation copy will look as good as the first. A 478th generation copy will look as good as the first."
No, that's not necessarily true. Most digital media is compressed with a lossy compression scheme. Otherwise, a single mintue of video would take hundreds of megabytes.
For example, copy a CD to a Sony Minidisc. The Sony MD is "digital", but the sound is compressed... it doesn't sound as good as the original. Or, keep recompressing a JPEG. Guess what? Looks worse and worse each time.
The only way a DVD-->DVHS copy would be "perfect" would be if the DVHS deck supported unencrypting the actual .VOB file from the DVD and copying it bit-for-bit onto the DVHS. Yeah, the MPAA would stand for that.
Don't be seduced by that "digital" buzzword. A 4-color animated GIF is "digital" too, but it ain't gonna replace your DVD drive or TV set. And if it does, I'm not watching the Super Bowl at YOUR house next year.
OtakuBooty.com: Smart, funny, sexy nerds.
I work for a small company called Indigita Corp. and we have been working on a fully digital VCR for MPEG2/HDTV recording for over 2-3 years now. Out technology is based off of 4mm DAT tape hardware. DDS-3 is capable of 18+GB of storage space or I think 4hrs of MPEG2 recording. (but don't hold me to that)!! With of course being able to playback HDTV recording at or very near the same quality as the original content! And with encription capabilities enabled, we can satisfy the greedy movie companies their content is safe. (heaven forbid, should anyone make copies. Oooo... chills)!! ;) I have personally seen some content that just blows away DVD and is just a little shy of the full HDTV resolution!! And that is off a DAT tape. We have been evaluating a lot of different units that would potentialy be able to record this quality content, most if not ALL have some very serious limitations. Recording, playback or seak/access time, to name a few. Most of these devices just don't lend itself to the full capabilities of recording and sustaining the bandwidth needed. Some DVD_RAMS we evaluated just couldn't keep up, so you would end up with dropped frames or worse. The D-VHS format... well should I say no contest... or it just... SUCKS. We are also considering where the IEEE1394 (Firewire) would end up in set top boxes and it looks very promising. And since we are all ready established in this market with bridge boards etc. we know right where it should fit in the home. (Think of who just came out with a 1394 HD external box in the market just recently. We helped make it happen!!) Just think, you could plug in your storage/recorder device into your PC/MAC and then into your decoder box an record whatever your heart desires!! Well, there you have it.
I'm not afraid of the dark. Far from it. Just.... only when the lights are off!
My other first post is car post.
My other first post is car post.
Of course, it would be necessary to have some digital output to get the data off of the tapes once you've backed up your computer data onto them.
My other first post is car post.
There's absolutelly no reason why they couldnt design it so it would record digitally onto normal VHS tapes, but no they design it so you have to use special 'digital' tape, just so they can make extra money. Just like Phillips did, with their 'Digital Compact Cassette' standard, if they had designed that to record digitally onto mormal cassettes it may have taken off, but no, they got greedy - so it never took off, just like this one won't.
Did you ever had a Betamax casette in your hands?
it was something you could throw outof the window
form the fifth floor, pick it up and still play.
The casettes were much more solid then the vhs tapes.
Betamax had *MUCH* better image quality over vhs.
Now offcourse, after so many years of development, the VHS quality improved a lot, and is now comparable with betamax in the early years...
I don't see how I got along without chapter selection until DVD. I suppose it wouldn't be too important if you only like to watch movies from beginning to end, but a lot of us like to do some quick movie cuts on those nights. You know, when you pull out the collection of DVDs and look at a few favorite scenes in each. Gunfight scenes in Matrix, Terminator 2. Any Jet Li scene in Lethal Weapon 4. Not possible to do it efficiently with a tape format.
- Amon CMB
Men believe what they want. - Caesar
I checked out the website of this new "standard" A few things I noticed 1) There's no mention of the disc-format exclusive 5-speaker Dolby Digital 5.1 or DTS. Only 3 channel Dolby Surround. 2) These are on tapes, they must be rewound, no chapter skipping or interactive features. 3) Since these are tapes, shouldn't they also suffer from quality degradation over time? 4) DVD is too captivating for users to switch back to tapes, even digital ones. Once you get hooked on DVD, you will always view tapes as inferior. 5) Sales of players are extremely high, the market is already huge. Playstation 2 will firmly root the installed base into the ground.
- Amon CMB
Men believe what they want. - Caesar
Unless the tape is using a medium that is different than normal VHS tapes and the magnetic fields are set to only react when this medium is detected.
,but are we doing this for knowledge or "FREE DVDs"
Sure there might be ways to defeat the purpose but what is the point.
Go spend some money and buy the DVD you want. Sure its great to know hack such devices
I am thinking the later.
QuaZar
Friends don't let friends use multiple inheritance.
Quality on digital recordings is not always perfect. You have never had a CD skip before? They try to put error correction in, but it is still possible to miss a bit or two every now and then. I bet the quality depends on the number of total gigabytes and number of megabyets per minute they can squeeze on a vhs cassette. I wouldn't be surprised if it is a lot. Ho many gigabytes can you get on a standard pc tape backup?
Some may find this article interesting... JVC announced a copy protection scheme for D-VHS, presumably similar to DVD (Anyone know more details ?). An excerpt...
WAYNE, N.J., April 10 /PRNewswire/ -- Victor Company of Japan, Ltd. (JVC) has developed a new copyright protection system for prerecorded D-VHS content as well as in-home analog and digital recording. The superior copyright protection feature will be included within the D-VHS standard. This new standard makes it possible to develop and produce prerecorded HD (High Definition) video content as well as add momentum to the development of D-VHS hardware products.
--
Sometimes it's best to just let stupid people be stupid.
I like it a lot. Me tired, going to bed.
John Carmack
According to the CEMA shipping numbers(attainable here), there are over 7 million DVD players in the United States and now VHS companies are getting desperate, attempting to utilize the inability of the DVD Forum to decide on one Rewritable format. What makes this less worth Philip's time and money, is that this MPEG2 DVHS tape will still suffer from signal degredation as all wound magnetic film does, although the fact that the recording is digital will hide this for some time. Furthermore, since it's compressed video, the loss in quality will become severe. At least you can fool with this piece of past obsolete junk, until they release the final format for DVD recording... ...and remember to hit rewind when you are done recording.
http://www.tvone.com/mpeg2@disk.htm
This is a standalone MPEG2 recorder that can use a DVDRAM drive for media. I have read that several japanese manufacturers (such as Panasonic) will be introducing similar products this fall, targetted more for the consumer. I believe that at least one of them as partnered with ReplayTV. At the same time that this is introduced, you will also be seeing a few DVD manufacturers that will be offering some level of DVDRAM playback as well -- of course, with DVDRAM media where you can remove it from the cartridge. --halI remember trying to sell DCC decks while working at Radio Shack (a great high school job!). One of my proudest days was selling one to some redneck. My best day was when I made the dentist next door upset by playing my store subwoofers too loud! :) =steve telnet://villagebbs.dhs.org
--- rapper/producer/bachelorette party stripper